[VIC] Contesting Speeding Ticket by Radar Gun

Hi Ozb,

Never thought it would be my day to post a speeding/car crash related thing here, but here we are.

See the images for detail: https://imgur.com/a/KVsjhTM

Today I got booked by a cop by radar gun going to the doctor's to get a medical note for work.

I was behind a black sedan and we both turned right from Gillespie Rd onto Station St, a main road which is speed signed for 70km for most of it. We both stopped at a red light right after Mcleod Road for a pedestrian crossing the road, making our speed zero. The entire time I was behind this black sedan in the left lane. There were no other cars but ours on the road which made for an easy drive, which is probably why in my case I completely forgot the school zone for this area is from 2.30pm to 4pm. The cop was approximately 240m away from us,sitting on the intersection of Douglas (the U turn/cut through lane) facing us with his lights on. From his position if he were booking us from within that 240m distance I get the following numbers:

I drive a 2016 Mazda 2, it does 0 to 100 in 9.4 seconds (conservatively, I've read 10 seconds elsewhere, but I'll give the cop the conservative benefit).

100km/h —> 9.4s
60km/h (detected) —> X

X = 5.64 seconds for me to get to 60km/h.

Speed = Distance/Time

S = 240m/5.64 seconds

S = 42.55km/h is what I could've complete that 240m in, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I figure he had somewhere to go, so I slow down for him, he overtakes me getting between the black car and mine. He's driving behind the black car with his lights on, but no siren. As the red light for Station Road and Main Road West intersection starts to build up traffic, to my surprise he and his female partner get out of the Golf police wagon. He walks towards me and his female partner goes to the car ahead.

Being WFH for so long and never being out, I forgot that school zones (70km down to 40km) were a thing as I am never in the area during that time. He asks for my license and checks my record. I've been driving for 10 years and have never been booked - never paid a single fine, never had a single demerit. I am also fully aware I have a <15km warning available to me.

He says I was doing 60km in a 40 zone (58 alleged), however, I was behind the black car the was pulled over the entire time so I can't see how he'd be able to get a clear reading on me using a radar, a Stalker DSR (357). Looking into this radar, I can see that it does cross lane road detection, but not a car behind another car detection in the same lane. I acknowledge that I was speeding, but not at the speed that he had indicated as I believe that the speed that he has slapped me with is actually the car in front, and if my feeling is right, I would've definitely been under 55km/h which would make my first warning valid.

The fine is $330 and 3 demerit points. I am thinking of contesting it having reasonable doubt for the radar reading for being for the both of our cars, especially with mine behind the black car. However, I'm not sure if the court costs are worth it, if I do pay I'll be on 9 demerit points, $330 less and my 10 year record blemished and my first warning invalid for another 2 years. Can anyone criticize or offer thoughts or experiences?

Poll Options

  • 4
    Go to court and contest it with a lawyer
  • 5
    Go to court and represent yourself
  • 41
    Pay the fine

Comments

  • +7

    Speed = Distance/Time

    Only if speed is constant.
    Your speed was not. You were accelerating from stand still.
    It would therefore make sense for your final speed (at the end of the 240m stretch) to be higher than your "would-be average speed".
    Honestly, pay the fine and move on.

    Edit: btw, your speed calculation is wrong

    Average speed S = 240m/5.64 seconds = 42.55 m/s which is equivalent to 153.18 km/h
    So yeah, I wouldn't use your calculations or measurements to fight it.

    Edit2: I can see that you calculate your X using 0.6*9.4s = 5.64s
    That's only true if acceleration is constant. I don't consider myself mechanically minded but cars don't do that, with engines' peak torque and what not.

    • Agree OP's car would hit 60km/h before 5.64s, the acceleration isn't constant.

      In any case, if you went to court it's unlikely a magistrate/registrar would accept your version over the police officer's… and looks like the official warning is only for <10km/h over https://www.police.vic.gov.au/official-warnings#alleged-spee…

    • Yes exactly. Especially when you shift gears and things. 0-60km/hr is not 60% of 0-100km/hr. Might be more or less depending on the car.

    • +4

      Hanging off top comment because this is what OP went sailing straight past:

      LED speed sign out the front of 7-11

      Further up you'll see the 40 zone markings either side of the lane

      This is at the intersection you entered the road from, you went sailing straight past an LED speed sign and fixed sign

      Even on the linked image of the road, you can see the 40 markings on Google Maps indicating the speed zone change, and OP clearly entered the street before then.

      Pay the fine, no way you can't say you saw 3 signs without saying you weren't concentrating on the road. Either you weren't aware of your surroundings, and sped unintentionally, or you were speeding. Pick one. Neither one is a not guilty tho

      • Thanks guys appreciate the feedback.

        My reasoning was for using the constant speed was as 0 - 100 is given that I was flooring it, which I wasn't, so in that calculation it was a conservative one.

        Spacebace is correct, I did go past that, but I don't believe that where I was pinged there as further up I dropped my speed to zero just past at the Mcleod crossing. From that zero point to where the cop was sitting is how I calculated the distance he would've had to nab me and the car infront in (240m).

        After the cop told me, I was fully aware I was speeding and in the wrong, but just not by the amount he pinged me at 60km (or 58 alledged). Given he pulled over both myself and the car in front, my only thought to contest it would be to show reasonable doubt that the captured speed was the car in front and not mine, and if I was 3km less than what he had read, I would learn my lesson and my first warning put to good use.

        In any case more than the money, I'm more annoyed at myself for a lapse of judgement and putting myself in that position.

  • +11

    Denial so strong you wrote a thesis on OzB

    • +1

      I acknowledge that I was speeding…

      Still goes on to write a 200 page thesis…

      • @plmko - haha yeah, it seems to be the trend on Ozb now!

        @pegaxs - I definitely was speeding, no doubt about it. Just not by anymore than 3km than what the cop quoted me though. But at this rate it probably seems more cost effective to pay it off rather than lose a day off work and the deal with court costs.

        • I look at it this way… It's $300, you were speeding, first ticket in 10+years… You're not likely to do it again any time soon. The only thing you could go to court for was to ask for leniency, and the reduction would not make up for the lost day and court costs.

          First up, you could always write a letter asking for a reduction and see how that goes, got nothing to lose there. If that fails, I would just eat the fine, keep your driving record clean for 3 years and the points come back off… 1 fine in 10 years works out to about $30 a year or $0.08/day. and considering all the times you have done something wrong and not been caught, that's not a bad deal… Hell.. post it as a bargain! :D

  • +1

    I can't unvote 1. I can't see how you can get off as it's a School zone and your also admitting your well over not just 1 or 5kms.
    It happens all the time that for the split second your not looking at your speedo or speed signs is when you get nabbed.
    Think of it this way. You managed not to get one for 10 years. That's $33 a year. Hope for another 10 free years.
    I factor in my budget per year at least $400 in parking or driving fines. Like who's ever got parking fines for staying over time a bit or more because they forgot to move car at work because they are distracted with other activities. Fortunately no recent fines. So I just take it on the chin and move on.

    Also a tip. Find a car with a speed limiter. As soon as I get into a school zone I set it. Some cars even detect the signs and warn drivers. Great aid. The police were likely there because of that school zone and to remind drivers of it. Good revenue earner. Mate there's 30km zones in Collingwood Vic. Joke. The bikes are going fast in the massive bike lanes.

    • Hey mate, you're absolutely right. Most likely I will be taking it on the chin, but I saw hope in the situation, only having to prove to a court somehow that I wasn't doing 3km over what had me booked (especially with the car I was behind the whole time), so I figured I'd post it up anyways.

      Unfortunately I'm not in a position to be changing cars, but yeah definitely something with a speed limiter would be great - will be on my shopping list when the time for the next car comes. Thanks mate!

  • +3

    Don't they have signs in Victoria where they tell you where school zones are?

    Your speed was almost 50% higher than the school zone speed limit. Pay the fine and take it as a lesson learnt.

  • +1

    Before you bother even thinking about going to court OP consider 1 thing.

    Can you prove to the magistrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that you weren't speeding?

    Saying "I wasn't doing that speed" is not concrete proof when the Police will obviously say you were.

    If you haven't got tangible evidence the magistrate will believe the Police, fine you, possibly add court costs, and you'll get the demerit points.

    • Hey mate thanks for the feedback.

      The only thing I want to prove to the court is that I was doing 55km/h or less and not the alleged 58km/h.

      Cop said he would've let me off with my first warning if I was booked at 55km/h, but my reasonable doubt is that he detected us from the front which would've meant he detected the car in front of me, and then I would only have to prove that I was doing 3km/h less than the the car in front/the detected reading.

      From the above, if I went to court to try and prove that I was 3km less than the reading, I feel that I would have a good chance - although with the time off and court costs I just don't know if it is worth it compared to just paying off the $330.

      • The court time off is the part where they get you and people don't contest the fine. I feel for you as my wife was livid when she got her no standing sign fine. No tickets at all for however long, 20plus years. Was doing kid pick up and in her car. Nabbed her straight away as inpector doing the cash grab for the month. You should be fine once you get over the initial why me stage, I'm a good driver. Also I also have the additude it's going to happen as at some point. As long as it's not often.

  • -4

    Listen OP
    We are not a court of law.
    So we dont need all the details - wasted effort

    I would love to help but you lost me with all the unecessary deatil so keep it simple next time.

    Just a one-liner - why did you get a fine? nothing more

    The answer will be the same regardless….
    If you were speeding then you are guilty and pay the fine.
    If the cop pulled you over then surely you put your case to the cop and if not then take the matter further.

    WARNING
    You will need evidence!
    And most importantly dont be a smart-ar… and try to justify your defense with maths.
    Nobody is interested. It will go down like a lead balloon.
    Stick to the "Physical" facts. Not the "hypotheticals"

  • Ask to see the radar gun, go to court and request the paperwork for the last time the radar was calibrated. Then pay the fine.

    • Being my first time being pulled over I was in shock and stupidly did not see the radar number, definitely will be doing this next time.
      On the paperwork I can see it was calibrated 25-Mar-2020. Cheers mate!

  • On the ticket, does it say what device was used? or are you guessing it was a radar?

    • On the notice it says it was a radar. I've looked up the model and it seems to be a Stalker DSR.

  • +3

    I acknowledge that I was speeding

    It’s STFU Friday…

    I’ll be on 9 demerit points

    No, you’ll be on 3. Demerit points are collected, not lost. They are like Pokémon. Gotta collect them all before you can battle the final gym boss…

    • Haha cheers mate!

      Really goes to show how new I am to demerits…

  • EDIT from my previous post.

    If it was a Stalker DSR, was it hand held or car mounted? Was the police officer stationary or moving?

    That model radar can show 2 readings at the same time. It can hold either reading to show you (strongest signal or fastest).

    Read this http://www.ballingertech.com.au/stalker-dsr-radar.html

    It absolutely CAN detect one car behind another (so long as 'a bit' of the following car is visible). All the member has to say is that you were in the path of the beam and you were visually going faster than the other car.

    And by the way, in VIC, you would need the reading to be only 9kph over the limit to be eligible for a warning…..

    • Hey mate, it was a HWP so most likely car mounted.

      I did see that page while looking it up too. I wasn't too far from the car in front the whole time. If it were to happen again, I would've asked the other drive what they got booked at to know for sure. Court costs are a losing battle, so most likely I will be copping it on the chin.

      Cop said he would've let me off up to 15km for my first warning, not sure about the 9kph, but I'll have to look into it. Cheers mate!

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