[VIC] Boss Asking Us to Come Back to Office June 1 - but Victoria Work from Home Directive still in place until end of June

Lchristophetheloffe on 25/05/2020 - 12:06

Please, I don't need comments of people saying 'you're lucky to have a job etc etc', this is asking for ADVICE, not snarky comments

My boss has told us today that he's preparing the office for us to come back in June 1.

We're just a small business with around 12 people in the office and it's about 180SQM (not too sure), a lot of the space is meeting rooms+kitchen, we are in shared desk area.

Should we say anything to my boss about the directive in Victoria to keep working from home if we can, what's the best way to approach this discussion with the boss?

Some other details:

  • We are a small IT company, WFH is no problem for us (zoom/slack)
  • All employees have taken reduced hours and/or reduced pay (20%+ depending on the employee) since March (we all signed a contract that says until foreseeable future)
  • At least 70% of us will add 1-2 hours of travel a day
  • Everyone will be taking public transport
  • We have a shared kitchen + shared bathroom (funnily enough we have a pass we have to share to unlock the bathroom door, don't ask)
  • Nearly everyone prefers WFH

Poll Options expired

  • 28
    Suck it up go into office
  • 42
    Mention to boss that it's still directive to WFH
  • 45
    Try and find a compromise to WFH few days a week + go to office
Education & Work

Comments

  • victorngel on 25/05/2020 - 12:11
    +2

    Best to negotiate together with all or a few employees

  • EFC94 on 25/05/2020 - 12:13
    +3

    I think a lot of offices are working 2 days in the office and 2 days at home, with staff splitting half and half across the 4 days. You could try to get for that method?

  • btiltman on 25/05/2020 - 12:19
    +2

    Go to the Boss with a plan.

    Divide into two teams.

    'A' team in office one week 'B' team WFH. Next week 'B' team in office 'A' team WFH.

    Allows more spacing between people in the office and divides the risk of the whole business going down.

    Thorough clean between weeks + Plenty of hand sanitiser on desks

    • GG57 on 25/05/2020 - 13:55

      Definitely support this suggestion to come up with a plan; complaining won't cut it (assuming that OP's employer complies with the Worksafe and other regulatory matters).

      I assume OP is not hotdesking; if that is the case, the cleaning should be daily IMO.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 25/05/2020 - 12:21
    +5

    Honestly:

    At least 70% of us will add 1-2 hours of travel a day

    This hasn't changed since you accepted the job. The travel is part of it.

    Everyone will be taking public transport

    As above. [As a side note, Thursday last week, trains into Melbourne were empty]

    We have a shared kitchen + shared bathroom (funnily enough we have a pass we have to share to unlock the bathroom door, don't ask)

    Wash your hands and be sensible. You'll likely be fine.

    Nearly everyone prefers WFH

    I prefer only working mornings. Therefore, I should be able to do that?

    The financial cost and preference are irrelevant. You are lucky, stop whinging and go into the office. You'll likely enjoy it and it will be a welcomed break from being at home.

    • kahn on 25/05/2020 - 13:30
      +4

      I've heard of computer-generated passwords, but I don't think I've seen that method applied to a username until now.

      • Baysew on 25/05/2020 - 15:21
        +4

        Could be Elon Musk.

    • DingoBilly on 25/05/2020 - 15:00
      +5

      It's a question of practicality.

      It sounds like they can operate exactly the same at home as in the office. If that's the case and they're happier WFH, then letting the employees WFH is a no-brainer. Could then look into potentially getting rid of the office entirely and saving even more money for the business. Lots of wins across the board.

      Saying that "things haven't changed" is not true. Everything is different now, many businesses have demonstrated they can operate just fine with everyone working from home, security doesn't seem to have fallen apart etc., so the discussion needs to be re-looked at. Going back to the exact same structure as before because "that's how it's always been" really shows up a business/person as non-flexible and not able to adapt to new circumstances, which probably means they won't be successful long-term.

      • GG57 on 25/05/2020 - 15:18

        WFH does seem to be a no-brainer for a lot of businesses, and I really hope my employer embraces that, but it is only one part of the change that needs to happen.
        Employers need to consider such things as how they manage their OH&S obligations, employee engagement, employee performance measures, impacts on customer deliverables, etc.
        I can sort of understand why OP's employer might be hesitant to embrace the opportunity (they are probably more focused on getting the business back to pre-virus levels of performance), and perhaps they want to get everyone together again so that they can collaboratively come up with an optimum ongoing solution for that business.

  • JimmyF on 25/05/2020 - 12:29
    -1

    Has your boss given any clear reason why they want you to come into the office? I assumed you all worked in the office before covid arrived?

    about the directive in Victoria to keep working from home if we can

    The key words are if you can, as long as your boss can keep the social distancing spaces etc, there is no reason for you to continue working from home.

    I don't disagree with you, just saying its not black/white you should be working from home, the directive is just guidelines, many people are going to work during this.

    All employees have taken reduced hours and/or reduced pay (20%+ depending on the employee) since March (we all signed a contract that says until foreseeable future)

    Will those reduced hours not flow through to the office then?

    At least 70% of us will add 1-2 hours of travel a day

    and? You did this before covid forced everyone to WFH

    Everyone will be taking public transport

    You can drive if you wanted to and pay for parking.

    We have a shared kitchen + shared bathroom (funnily enough we have a pass we have to share to unlock the bathroom door, don't ask)

    Wash your hands, and follow good hygiene, you'll be right.

    Nearly everyone prefers WFH

    Maybe, but that doesn't mean much. I prefer to get paid for not working at all, but sadly my boss doesn't agree.

    around 12 people in the office and it's about 180SQM

    Thats ~15SQM per person, amble space to keep distances.

    • trapper on 26/05/2020 - 11:45

      How many square meters per person on the bus or train?

      Nobody should be going in to work unnecessarily if we want to see the end of this thing any time soon. If your job can be done from home then stay at home.

      • JimmyF on 26/05/2020 - 12:02
        -1

        How many square meters per person on the bus or train?

        That is the OP choice to take that method of transport to work. They can drive if they want for example.

        Nobody should be going in to work unnecessarily if we want to see the end of this thing any time soon

        But you're happy to go to the supermarket and get food, or get takeaway or fill up your car of buy things online and have delivery people deliver them for you.

        So if we want this to end soon, then all those people should stay home too.

        If your job can be done from home then stay at home.

        Things I've said, but things that are not the law.

        • trapper on 26/05/2020 - 12:46

          That is the OP choice to take that method of transport to work. They can drive if they want for example.

          OP said in his post that everyone at his work takes public transport. So no they probably can't drive if they want.

          But you're happy to go to the supermarket and get food, or get takeaway or …

          Some things are necessary and can't be done from home, like food distribution, we can't go without food, people gotta eat.

          So if we want this to end soon, then all those people should stay home too.

          Well the more people stay at home the faster this will end. You need to understand that every single transmission opportunity increases the R0. The higher that is the longer this goes on.

          It's a balancing act. Some risk is necessary, or even just 'worth it' economically. And some risk is pointless and unnecessary - like going in to the office when you can work perfectly well from home.

  • Hithere on 25/05/2020 - 12:38
    +11

    Member Since
    1 hour 26 min ago

    Is Whirlpool offline or something?

    • Ocker on 25/05/2020 - 13:05
      +3

      Probably too embarrassed to use usualname

      • kerfuffle on 25/05/2020 - 13:08
        +2

        Then in that case, you could report this account for being a ghost account

  • whooah1979 on 25/05/2020 - 13:08

    It is perfectly safe to go back to work.
    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-…

    Both of Victoria’s cases were returned travellers in hotel quarantine.

    • kahn on 25/05/2020 - 13:32
      +1

      It looks like we'll have another dozen cases next week :-P

    • ssquid on 25/05/2020 - 13:36
      +1

      Have a look at the daily vic infections before Cedar Meats happened.

    • fredblogs on 26/05/2020 - 13:09
      +1

      "Perfectly safe"? When was the last case of community transmission?

      • whooah1979 on 26/05/2020 - 13:11

        Of the new cases, three were in recently returned travellers in mandatory quarantine.

        The fourth was discovered during routine testing and the fifth – a nursing home resident – is being investigated.

        • fredblogs on 26/05/2020 - 13:15

          You're talking about today? So the last case was only 2 days ago then?

            • fredblogs on 26/05/2020 - 14:03
              +1

              @whooah1979: Doesn't say when the last case of community transmission was. If this is your best source of info then your "perfectly safe" comment is perfectly worthless.

              Let me educate you - community transmission stats are here: https://covidlive.com.au/vic - 9 cases on Sunday, 2 today.

              • whooah1979 on 26/05/2020 - 14:24
                -1

                @fredblogs: 11 infections out of 37k tests are good numbers. Perfectly safe to go to work.

                • fredblogs on 26/05/2020 - 14:51
                  +1

                  @whooah1979: We have good numbers because people haven't been going to work. 11 community transmissions in 3 days means there are undetected infections (probably far more than 11).

                  • whooah1979 on 26/05/2020 - 15:31
                    -2

                    @fredblogs: Our company have been working full time dealing with customers face to face since this started with nobody getting infected. Op is working in a bubble with a dozen people. The chance of getting infected is zero.

                    • fredblogs on 27/05/2020 - 10:26
                      +3

                      @whooah1979: It's not zero and Dan Andrews is smarter than you.

                      "Work from home must continue: Andrews"
                      https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/coronavirus-upda…

                      Also note that just because you're young and have no symptoms, doesn't mean you didn't catch it or that you won't kill an older person. (I know someone that tested positive, thought it was an error (no symptoms), and confirmed it via a 2nd test.)

                      • whooah1979 on 27/05/2020 - 13:10
                        -3

                        @fredblogs: He is looking after his older constituents while neglecting the younger voters.

  • Ghost47 on 25/05/2020 - 15:28
    +9

    Daniel Andrews said this, and I quote, on FB yesterday.

    And finally, a message to all our employers out there. I really need your help on this one.

    I appreciate this isn't possible for all workplaces. But if your staff are able to work from home, and have been doing so – we need to keep that going.

    We simply can't have thousands of people on trains and trams – let alone the logistical challenges of communal kitchens, lifts and big office buildings.

    I know I've said this before, but as we all have more choices and more options, it's even more important:

    Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should race out and do it.

    Don't know why people are telling you to go to the office here, if everyone did things would go south real fast.

    I suggest you raise it to your boss as a team. You should at least be able to have a choice to stay home or not. Maybe go in 1-2 days a week if you must.

    My workplace is doing the two team thing, and have said people can go back into the office IF they want. Common sense should prevail here; if the team isn't working well remotely then yeah maybe go back to the office, but if things are going as usual I don't see why employees should be forced back into the office.

    • whooah1979 on 25/05/2020 - 15:53

      The company is paying for 180 sqm of unused real estate plus equipment.

      • GG57 on 25/05/2020 - 16:10
        +3

        Yes, but that hasn't changed since pre-COVID19 and remains an OPEX.
        Some of the equipment (servers etc.) are still required, and need to be housed somewhere.
        The business owner should consider all of these impacts in the WFH model.

    • kanmen on 25/05/2020 - 17:23
      +2

      Thank you! I keep saying I can't wait to go back to the office but I understand it's still not necessary. If we can work from home, then we will. It's that simple.

  • trapper on 26/05/2020 - 11:40
    +2

    No do not go back, especially not on public transport.

    There are still new infections daily in Victoria, a new cluster could happen anywhere.

    • GG57 on 26/05/2020 - 11:50

      But isn't that exactly the quandary that OP finds themselves in?
      The boss wants them back in the office; the workers don't want to.

      Obviously the boss should have more awareness and respect, but it is difficult for an employee to refuse that instruction.

      • trapper on 26/05/2020 - 12:59
        +1

        Yeah OP should tell his boss he's not comfortable coming into work unnecessarily and against government advice while there is a global pandemic going on.

    • whooah1979 on 26/05/2020 - 11:57
      -4

      The majority of carriers are coming from overseas. It is perfectly safe for Victorians to return back to work.
      https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-…

      • GG57 on 26/05/2020 - 12:10
        +2

        I would rather refer to the Vic Government / VicHealth info rather than 7news.
        The current Victorian restrictions will be eased to some extent from 1 June, but even then:
        "As the restrictions start to ease, Victorians need to continue to:…Work from home, if you can…Employers should continue to provide flexible work arrangements, encourage their employees to work from home, ensure hygiene standards and provide necessary physical distancing in all workplaces."

        I don't know if it is "perfectly safe" or not, but I'm not qualified to make that call.

        • whooah1979 on 26/05/2020 - 12:16
          -5

          Governments can say what they want us to hear. I prefer statistics.

          Of the new cases, three were in recently returned travellers in mandatory quarantine.

          The fourth was discovered during routine testing and the fifth – a nursing home resident – is being investigated.

          • GG57 on 26/05/2020 - 12:35

            @whooah1979: So what.
            You want to do your own analysis of statistics (that someone provided to you), assume they are valid, and then make your own decisions, which may affect others?

      • trapper on 26/05/2020 - 12:56
        +5

        No it is absolutely not 'perfectly safe', there is community spread in Victoria. Stay at home if you can.

  • kanmen on 29/05/2020 - 10:04
    +3

    Statement From The Premier
    29th May 2020

    Victoria – and Victorians – have achieved something remarkable.

    We’ve made sacrifices. We’ve missed loved ones. We’ve given up getting on the beers.

    And in doing so, we’ve helped keep one another safe.

    Because of those efforts, we’ve been able to gradually ease restrictions. And from Monday, we’ll no longer be giving Victorians a definitive list of reasons to leave home.

    Instead, we’ll be asking people to use that same common sense – and that same sense of community – in the weeks and months to come.

    Some measures, though, must stay the same. One of the key things that won’t change is working from home. If you’re currently working from home – you must keep working from home.

    By working from home, we limit the number of people moving around – and we limit the spread of this virus.

    To date, we’ve left the ins and the outs of how this will work to Victorians and their employers.

    But going forward – and in light of new evidence indicating increased activity – the obligation for employers to keep their staff working from home will now be included in the Chief Health Officer’s directions.

    That means there will now be a clear and shared responsibility between workers and their bosses. For employees, that means an obligation to keep working from home. And for employers, an obligation to support them in doing so.

    As we’ve said from the start, our actions will always be guided by evidence.

    Right now, we can’t have the usual number of people on our trains, trams and buses – it just isn’t safe.

    And we know that if just half the people who normally use public transport start driving to work, we will see our freeways and other major roads grind to a halt.

    The number of people on the roads and the transport network is already starting to increase and we cannot let that creep continue.

    If we do, then we’ll see commute times worse than anything any of us have ever experienced – two hours from Werribee to the city, 90 minutes from Reservoir and two and half hours from Mulgrave.

    The majority of Victorians – and employers – are following the work from home advice.

    But for the small number that are not, this is about removing any shadow of doubt: if you can work from home, you must continue to do so.

    And because we’re asking this of businesses – this applies equally to workers in the public sector too.

    We’re also being upfront: we don’t yet have a timeline on when this might change, or how we might be able to get back to work as normal.

    For now, we’re saying this will be in place until at least the end of June, but it may well be longer. As always, that will depend on the advice of our Chief Health Officer.

    What is clear is that by continuing to work from home – you are making a very real difference to the safety of our state.

    The challenge we face is far from over.

    So, keep your distance. Keep washing your hands.

    And if you’ve been working from home – you must keep working from home.

    It’s up to all of us to make this work.

    • ssquid on 29/05/2020 - 18:05
      +4

      TL;DR: If a Victorian business has allowed employees to work from home it can't ask them to return to the workplace before the end of June without breaching public health orders and risking fines of up to $100,000.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/victoria-coronavirus-…

      • kanmen on 29/05/2020 - 21:01

        Yeah I just thought I'd post the whole thing to make sure it's clear before someone comes up with some reason elsewise, as seen above. This directive isn't new but people seem to have their own interpretation of it

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