Considering an Eco-Micro. Anyone Done The Math?

imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 17:42

I'm looking to get either a relatively new or new eco car that can cruise comfortably (110km/hr) and also be good in traffic (auto).

Considering the smallest Prius, fiesta S, swift GL Nav+safety pack, Skoda Rapid and Fabia, Picanto GT etc. Not sure about diesel due to DPF issues.

I'm doing 20000km/year, mix of highway and urban (50:50).

Has anyone been in a similar situation and done the math that considers:

  • fuel use
  • fuel type (91, 94 E10, 95, 98)
  • depreciation
  • service costs (over 5 years ownership)
  • initial cost

I'm finding it hard to compare cars that require 95 octane but run more efficient. Also not sure on how to evaluate the above points to make the best numerical decision (best bang for the buck)

Automotive

Comments

  • brendanm on 17/05/2020 - 17:58
    +4

    Is penny pinching going to make you happy if you have to drive a car you hate every day for 20,000km a year?

    • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 18:34

      No, but i'm going to be using this car for work and will need a reliable yet affordable option. I've driven the swift on a 10 hour trip and found it comfortable. Most new cars are more comfortable than they used to be.

      • brendanm on 17/05/2020 - 19:06
        +2

        I just mean that fuel economy is a tiny expense in buying a car, especially a new, small car, with terrible depreciation.

        • pegaxs on 17/05/2020 - 19:49
          +3

          Depreciation doesn't always work like that.

          The small car vs large car. The smaller car may lose 50% and a larger car may lose only 30%, but that 30% may exceed the total cost of the smaller car. And smaller cars tend to plateau out earlier in the depreciation because of their already fairly low initial new car price. Larger, more expensive vehicle fall in depreciation for far longer than cheaper cars.

          Years ago I bought a Great Wall with works money because I wanted to try ownership and give them a go. My brother, working for another company bought a Isuzu D-Max. The same topic came up about the piss poor depreciation on the Great Wall and how the D-Max would hold it's value. My vehicle was $25k drive away, his was $50k drive away.

          In the 3 years that we owned our respective vehicles, I had lost 50% of the value of my vehicle, he had lost only 40%. I lost $12.5k, he had lost $20k. Almost enough to pay for my vehicle. Another 12 months, and the amount he would have lost on the D-Max would have paid for my car outright.

          • brendanm on 17/05/2020 - 20:09
            +7

            @pegaxs: On the flip side, you had to drive a great wall for 3 years, while he drove a d max.

            • pegaxs on 17/05/2020 - 20:16
              +2

              @brendanm: Yeah… I know. But if I was buying privately, I would not say that after 4 years the D-Max was worth the $25k+ in depreciation.

              And personally, I didn't mind the Great Wall. It did everything the D-Max did, never broke down, never gave me trouble and only ever went to the dealer for servicing, that was also a fraction of the price of the D-Max services. Not as much "street cred" on the GW though…

        • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 19:49

          Agreed. I have learnt my fuel economy lesson with an expensive diesel vehicle write off (due to a $2.5K DPF).

  • Baysew on 17/05/2020 - 18:05

    Using Car Sales Websites Could Save Countless Hours

    I have noticed that many automotive forum posts could be answered with just clever usage of filters on car sales websites. Many posts are asking questions that you would normally ask your self while browsing possible options.

    Most of the posts fill with the run-of-the-mill arguments about origins of the car, and the times I've seen "Just get a Corolla/Camry" is just crazy!

    Please, save hours of OzBargainers time by just using the filters!

    • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 18:31

      I'm just wondering if anyone has spent time crunching the numbers. Can't do that with filters. haha.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 18:19
    +1

    What's your aim? To save money? If so, a new or newish small car is going to be far worse for your pocket than a five-ten year old car with similar to slightly worse fuel economy.

    • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 18:35

      Yes, it has to be affordable as a whole package, that's why I'm asking if anyone has done more complex calculations, not just car sales filters. The only reason I'm going new as I would like to have something with android auto for using the phone and nav apps while driving. Also, it has to be reliable as it will be used for work every day. I guess i could get a 10YO Corolla and get a new head unit installed.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 19:11
        +7

        You're onto it there. You'll.

        Simple calculation you can setup in a spreadsheet:

        Initial purchase cost = a1
        Estimated sale price when you're done = a2
        Fuel economy in L/100km = b
        Approx annual kilometres = c
        Annualised maintenance = d (remembering this will depend on brand, age, and engine/transmission configuration)

        Annual cost = ((a1-a2)+(c*b)+d)

        That's pretty rough and might be not heaps accurate but just as an indicator.

        I suggest you take this equation and plug numbers into it for the following examples:

        A) a new Corolla hybrid
        B) a new something else small / efficient (Polo maybe?)
        C) a 2-3 yr old Japanese/Korean car with sub 50,000km and low fuel consumption
        D) a 5-8 yr old Japanese/Korean car with sub 50,000km and low fuel consumption
        E) a 2-3 yr old Japanese/Korean car with sub 50,000km and medium fuel consumption
        F) a 5-8 yr old Japanese/Korean car with sub 50,000km and medium fuel consumption

        For all the used cars make sure to include a bit of cash for a new head unit.

        I think you'll realise two things:

        1. Fuel economy is a factor but the difference over a few years is only a couple hundred bucks or so.
        2. The purchase price, age, and depreciation are the factors that will hurt you.

        Also in my opinion, you can get a used car and move up the market a little. 20,000km a year you want to be comfortable and have everything you need. Get comfy seats and some mod cons.

        • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 19:55
          +3

          Thankyou jrowls for taking the time to give a concise response. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

          • [Deactivated] on 17/05/2020 - 20:09
            +3

            @imnotgoingtopayrrp: Pleasure mate, it's a hobby of mine. I was in the same boat as you not too long ago and did the maths but I don't do enough kms for it to be even remotely close. You're a better use case at 20,000km but I assume it will still reveal itself as a false economy.

            Would love to hear you report back with your findings and the decision you go with - either in this thread or elsewhere.

            Edit: Oops got my formula wrong - make sure you divide everything so it's in annual terms. I think you'll want to put a (divide by years owned) function after the first half of the equation I shared.

            Edit 2: oh man I also forgot to put in the fuel bit. You'll need to turn that fuel figure into a dollar figure.

            • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 20:40
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: reply to edit 1: That makes sense

              Reply to edit 2: Yep, i will just Ctrl c Ctrl v for each fuel type (prob on a new sheet).

              Thanks again!

  • Euphemistic on 17/05/2020 - 18:58
    +2

    Time to get the inner spreadsheet nerd into action I’d say.

  • brendanm on 17/05/2020 - 19:01
    +3

    Buy a Getz for $2000, put an android auto head unit in. Drive for 5 years, sell for $1800. Buying new in the hope of 0.01l/100km fuel saving is silly. Especially small cars whose values drop like a rock.

  • pegaxs on 17/05/2020 - 19:58

    fuel type (91, 94 E10, 95, 98)

    Not this (fropanity) shit again… Unless the "mini/micro" is tuned to use the different fuels, there would be no appreciable difference if you put 98 in your 91RON rated micro. A Kia Picanto GT Turbo might need 95/98, but a Hyundai Accent does not. So, you may as well remove that from your comparison sheet. Just use the figures the manufacturer gives you as their economy figures.

    Anyone Done The Math?

    Actually, yes. I have posted several spreadsheets here over time where I (or you) can compare cost of ownership of two different vehicles. It's what I do. It's my hobby. It covers, initial cost, fuel use, servicing costs and approximate depreciation

    • mskeggs on 17/05/2020 - 20:05
      +3

      I think the issue is the euro cars demand the premium fuel.
      So while you can just compare l/100km, the higher Ron demands will be more expensive per litre.

      • pegaxs on 17/05/2020 - 20:10
        +1

        They do. But no matter what fuel they use, their economy figures are still listed in litres/100km. OP should be working from that number, not from what fuel they put in it. Just need to adjust the average fuel price to suit the fuel they have to use.

        And I was pointing more towards the people who think putting 98RON in their 91RON vehicles and claiming an advantage.

        • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 20:16

          Yeah, this fuel consideration was only as the Skoda's and the mid-spec swift 3 cylinder turbo requires 95RON (compared to the lower spec 1.2 that can use E10 and ULP91).

          • pegaxs on 17/05/2020 - 20:23

            @imnotgoingtopayrrp: E10 is a replacement for 95, not 91. This is where so many people get confused. It happens in every E10 related post/thread on here.

            "E10 is more expensive that 91 to run…" Of course it is, because E10 is closer to 95, and should be compared there as price related, not to 91. The low price difference between E10 and 91 makes no sense to swap away from straight 91 because of the energy density of E10.

            But the difference between E10 and 95 makes sense, because the difference is often 10 to 20 cents per litre, and the reduction in energy density is negated by the huge difference in the two fuels prices.

            • imnotgoingtopayrrp on 17/05/2020 - 20:29

              @pegaxs: Not 100% true. I currently run a alfa that requires 95 RON - and less than 5% ethanol (it is designed for 95RON 5% ethanol blended petrol to European Standard EN228) due to "material incompatibilities". My bosses new VW golf all-track can take E10 95RON (not 94RON). It's up to the manufacturer.

    • dabhbl on 18/05/2020 - 11:17

      For the lazy (like me!), the spreadsheets @pegaxs is referring to (that I could find) are

      • pegaxs on 18/05/2020 - 11:24

        In the petrol vs electric one, you can compare two ICE cars. Just put in the data for two ICE vehicles and ignore what the EV columns ask you to input and just put in the equivalent ICE vehicle figures.

  • Waltervp on 18/05/2020 - 10:07
    +1

    I know there is a big divide between new car buyers and second hand,… I just like to vote for a second hand car. I'm on the lower end, being on a disability pension, so a new car for me would be in the $20k budget, but considering I change car every 2-3 years (it's fun because every time the cars are so much better again) I get high tech feature full luxury cars second hand and feel like a king. I have loved the Peugeots, my brother loves the Mercs, but currently driving a Ford Mondeo Titanium and the safety features are brilliant, adaptive cruise control and blind spot alert, auto highbeam… It looks/feels like a new car. Consider a 2016 MD Mondeo, or look at a 2018 Subaru Impreza…. Fuel economy for all is AWESOME, especially for the diesels I've always had.

  • knightslay2 on 18/05/2020 - 22:28

    Something like a Toyota Corolla would be sufficient, probably look into the 2014 if your budget supports it. Its got a CVT transmission, yes it's boring to drive but it's efficient on the highway.

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