OzBargain promoting mob mentality

Ok so I just experienced some the the inner workings of this site and wondered what other people thought of the way this site tracks and treats negs.

I negged a deal. Shame on me!

The comment that I have to make in the deal(fair enough site requirement) was downvoted so much (8 people) that my neg for the deal was revoked. I can't vote again, no matter how many times I comment.

Are we that offended by a little red box with a number in it that the site can't let a neg vote stand?

I don't think it is a bargain. I had my reasons and I don't really care what the rest of you think about my opinion. The deal was posted because, in someones opinion, it was a bargain. I disagree, simple right?

But my opinion is not allowed to be heard because it is unpopular. It is in fact 'negged' out of existence. The very same treatment I gave the deal has forever banished my opinion and the small red number that comes along with it.

Now, once again site balance is restored and it's a perfectly good deal again with 31+ and not a single person on this site thinks it's a bad deal at all.

Thank you all for playing nicely in our positively reinforced, mob mentality site where other opinions are not valued and, in some instances, they simply do not warrant being noted.

EDIT
Turns out a negative vote isn't if you think the deal is a bad deal. The positive vote however IS if you think it's a good deal.

There seems to be a different criteria to the positive and negative vote use for the COMMENTS.

Please forgive my confusion.

Comments

  • +15

    Perfectly fine for you to express your opinion but no one else? It seems 9 people didn't agree with your opinion in their opinion.

    • +9

      The opinion was the original post. I expressed my opinion. All those little plusses didn't fall away, just my neg.

      So everyone else gets their opinion out there, but my opinion shouldn't be retained? Because it was unpopular?

    • -1

      You obviously miss the point of this post - the issue isn't people negging his comment, it's the fact that negging his comment can somehow erase his negative vote on the deal itself. It's not the expression of opinions that's an issue, it's the selective erasure of them.

      • Not my problem.

  • Post to Facebook then, where you can only be 'liked' and people who disagree with you will just ignore your half-baked opinions instead. At least here you get feedback.

    • +3

      I do get feedback, you are correct, but it comes at the expense and subsequently overrides my own feedback.

      So why bother providing feedback at all?

      As it turns out you can only be liked here as well. That was the whole point of my post. I disliked it. It was overriden. Now it is liked by all and my comment is hidden so it can be ignored.

      Wait didn't you say something similar happens on facebook?

      • This is a common mistake with the voting guidelines:

        See the voting guidelines page:

        No Vote
        If the deal doesn't apply to you or you aren't interested in the company. You may also choose to leave a warning about the business or deal via a comment only.

        The easiest way to think about it is pretend there is a no vote button along with a positive and negative vote button. Not interested in the deal or don't like it, hit the no vote button. Like the deal? Positive vote button. Issue with the company, product, better price etc? Use the negative vote button.

        Your comment attached to the vote is NOT a valid negative vote and in this instance the community acted correctly and revoked your vote.

        • +3

          You are correct according to the time you have been chosen to enforce.

          Why would a neg vote not be valid for a bad deal, but a pos vote be valid for a good deal?

          • @cheaplee: Your comment:

            lets not start putting everyones specific 'x spend for x points' BARGAINS up again please

            If my interpretation is correct, you believe that Flybuys deals, which are x spend for x points, shouldn't be posted on OzBargain. These deals are permitted to be posted so it seems your issue is on our site policy. Nowhere in your comment did you mention whether the deal was good or bad, simply that you didn't want to see them on OzBargain.

            • @neil: I still think he raises a valid point - should this really be something that is decided by negative votes on his comment? This is quite clearly open to being abused by the community

              • @sakurashu: If you want change at OzBargain (or at a company, local community, sports club, etc.), it's best to bring it up in the appropriate forum. So for OzBargain, that's the site discussion forum. Our guidelines, features etc have in large part been guided by discussions in the community. Same thing applies when people post in the forums complaining or putting a review about x company without even trying to resolve the issue with the company and the community calls it out.

                So while their point of whether or not OzBargain should ban Flybuys deals may be a valid discussion point, it is not valid as a negative vote. Of course, it's not going to work all the time and open for abuse and we can try to work to combat the abuse like other issues. I do want to pull a sample size of recent negative votes and resulting action so at least we'll be having a look at how the system is functioning.

                • @neil: Thanks Neil - I agree it's quite clear that in the original situation, the negative vote wasn't appropriate given the guidelines. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that I bring this other concern up as a separate discussion; it seems to be integral to cheaplee's original post so I thought it was appropriate to still discuss it here. I posted another query about the specific mechanics in response to another member but you are probably best positioned to answer it - would a positive deal vote also be removed on a threshold of negative votes on the associated comment?

                  I find it very interesting that the guidelines for the positive and negative votes are not mirrors of each other - shifting what most viewers would expect as a clear positive/negative correlation on the buttons to being simply a comparative positive count correlation given the no vote intended usage - I'm sure this has been discussed at length previously. Is this something I could find in the history of the site discussion forum?

    • Props for your profile pic. Who remembers "hoyohoyo"?

  • +12

    Comment in question here. OzB voting guidelines here. Not sure what the issue is.

    • -1

      I guess I was questioning the voting guidelines in hindsight.

      My issue is why my neg vote gets washed away buy a whole bunch of other neg votes. Negging a negger make a positive deal better?

      The guidelines tell me why my vote was removed. The site works exactly as programmed. Bravo!

      That wasn't really the point of my post though, discussing how well the programming of the site works.

      The guidelines states vote (+) when it's a good deal, but don't vote (-) when it's not a good deal.

      Why is that?

      • +11

        The guidelines states vote (+) when it's a good deal, but don't vote (-) when it's not a good deal.

        Well, let's follow that logic then. Guidelines says:

        Negative Vote
        Purpose:
        To let others know about issues with the deal, merchant or product.

        Your comment was:

        nope
        lets not start putting everyones specific 'x spend for x points' BARGAINS up again please

        Your comment was not letting others know about issues with the deal, merchant or product. It was a personal preference that is unwarranted nor do you have authority to dictate what people do.

        You are, however, entitled to your opinion. As others are to have opinions on your opinion. So people did not agree with you & downvoted because they were letting others know there was an issue with your comment.

        The site has a chosen preference to remove negs after enough downvotes likely as protection means against post spoiling and spam.

        It worked.

        /end

  • +16

    I guess it was too difficult for you to link to your comment.

    This site relies on the 'wisdom of the crowd' so if someone's reason for a neg vote is seen as invalid according to the group, then it will be dismissed. You claim that you "don't really care what the rest of you think about my opinion" but it's quite obvious that you do. Get over yourself and try to focus on something more cheerful. Life goes on.

  • +8

    I negged the comment

    • +1

      I did too, and I liked it.

  • +4

    COVID19 restrictions are lifting, maybe time to get outside and enjoy the fresh air?

    • +5

      If I go outside I'm liable to share my opinion with others. Are you sure you want to be promoting that?

      • I prefer sharing it with the wildlife!

      • The marketplace of ideas is a genuine thing. You might get down voted in public.

  • -5

    I gave your original comment a positive vote. Will add a few more from my other accounts. Have you back up and running in no time. Stay positive.

    • +4

      you got negged for that. few more of those mate and you're in trouble

    • I gave your original comment a positive vote. Will add a few more from my other accounts.

      I'll assume you are kidding. For the record, multiple accounts are not permitted and will result in a permanent ban.

      MS Paint Diagram Below:

      paintme

      • For the record, multiple accounts are not permitted and will result in a permanent ban.

        Is this what happened to PJC?

      • +15

        Damn it, man. Why did you have to post that with your mod tag. This deserves 1000 upvotes.

        • +2

          This is why we should also be able to post pictures haha.

        • lol agree.

          that was funny!

          ill give my + to you instead lol

  • +2

    Actually, it's good to know comment votes serve a purpose.

    • +2

      Trying to probe further as you are the first person who shared an opinion on my original query.

      What purpose did the comment votes serve?

      • What purpose did the comment votes serve?

        Comment votes are found on many popular sites such as Reddit.

        Other than what you brought up, negative votes against a comment grey the comment or hide the comment depending on settings. For guests, highly negatived comments are collapsed.

  • Added neg number 13, figured the point hadn't quite been made yet

    • +2

      It had been made a long time ago. I think it only took 5 people to disagree and it all went back to normal.

      I hope you added a (+) to the deal as well.

      Because you vote (+) when a deal is good.

      Just remember you DO NOT vote (-) when a deal is bad.

  • Your opinion was noted.
    Then you were out voted on your comment, which is in line with the site.
    (Fair enough site requirement).

  • +8

    I think Neg voting a comment shouldn't revoke a neg vote on a deal as it makes no sense for it to be that way.
    it's leaves it open to abuse and unfair neg revokes, which is exactly what happens

    If there are enough fans of a product or company they will remove the neg vote unfairly and what's worse is if there are positive upvotes to said comment afterwards the neg vote remains revoked and will never return so it's purely a matter of if there are enough fans online at whatever time the comment is made and willing to neg vote vs the amount of people in agreement and willing to + vote the comment.

    It's a dumb system.

    • it's leaves it open to abuse and unfair neg revokes, which is exactly what happens

      The facts and data don't justify that statement. Given the moderators deal with 7000+ reports a month, we are aware of revoke votes. They almost always are invalid negative votes.

      • And what abought those completely fair and deserved negative votes that get's removed unfairly due to the way the current system is?

        The negative vote makes people a target in a way for negative comment votes, Wouldn't it be better off moving that auto negative vote removal system to the reporting system so that a certain number of reports for invalid negative vote gets the vote removed rather than negative votes on a comment.

        • Wouldn't it be better off moving that auto negative vote removal system to the reporting system so that a certain number of reports for invalid negative vote gets the vote removed rather than negative votes on a comment.

          We received 7,216 reports in April, roughly one every 6 minutes. We'd rather not substitute the negative comment vote with a report, as the system that works for the most part.

          • @neil: Can you not somehow (i don't know anything about coding tbh) make it so you don't get a notification of a invalid negative vote report and let the system auto remove it after enough reports?

            Im only talking about the auto negative vote removal part being moved so that it gets activated not by how many negative votes but by how many reports on comments only

            it will still get abused but far less vs how easy + and - voting is.

            • @Axelstrife:

              Can you not somehow (i don't know anything about coding tbh) make it so you don't get a notification of a invalid negative vote report and let the system auto remove it after enough reports?

              Even if we could, what's the point. User A, B, C, and D report. User A, B, C, and D negative vote. Both are only visible to moderators.

              • @neil: "it will still get abused but far less vs how easy + and - voting is."

                It would require more clicks/taps for mobile to report vs + - voting on comments which would save some fair neg votes from being removed.

                As it stand right now the deal neg voter has to deal with

                1. Being a target purely cause of the neg vote on the deal.

                2. People that are neg vote happy and will happily neg vote a comment as soon as it's received a neg vote. (ive tested this in the past by neg voting a random harmless comment only to see it further neg voted for no reason than i neg voted it first.)

                It's easy for people to tap/click that Neg vote, it would require more taps/clicks to report.

  • +7

    People should save their negs on JV

    • +6

      He's crafty, though. We only have five negs per day, but he makes sure to post at least 20 comments per day to spread out the damage. He's crafty, I tells ya.

      • He’s crafty???

        • Bold words

      • That's another thing. They need to increase/remove the 5 neg a day limit! Negathons are warranted in some instances.

        • +1

          cough (ozbargain premium) cough

  • I don't think it is a bargain. I had my reasons and I don't really care what the rest of you think about my opinion.

    That is Inappropriate uses of negative vote as outlined by Voting Guidelines, Such as “I don't think it's a good deal”, “I don't like this deal”, “This is an awful deal”.

    To remind you the purpose of neg vote it is to let others know about issues with the deal, merchant or product. So your comment, "nope

    lets not start putting everyones specific 'x spend for x points' BARGAINS up again please" is not valid to neg vote a deal.

  • +2

    I think your neg and comment were inappropriate - but your wider point is a valid one.
    I can't count the number of times morons have down-vited stuff I think invalidly, or piled on a comment to neg it into oblivion just because they didn't like the POV.
    I even got two downvotes on commenting on a question that there was an applicable coupon code to get a service cheaper.
    Some of the people on Ozbargain are jack-asses, plain and simple.

  • +1

    This is quite interesting, I don't think I've ever used a neg vote? But if I had to say what worked intuitively for me, Plus is positive vote (I think deal is good) negative is against vote (I don't believe this is a good deal) both of which is based on community outcry (is RRP really a bargain for an item thats never in stock? Well thats for the plus minus to decide).

    Reporting is for things such as issues with the deal, merchant or product.

    I'll be honest it seems to make sense to me, and while I support the neg on OPs comment I also think OP should be allowed to keep the neg to the post, and people can see based on the not very many negs that its a good (or bad) deal.

    At least thats how I view it, as I don't actually vote besides for bargains that I actually use (plus votes), it doesn't really bother me either way, its more I'm surprised I never realised until now the guidelines differ to my view.

  • Then write an inverted, groupthinky comment.

  • The voting system on this site is broken. More so the forum comment voting system. It’s stupid and unnecessary and is used mostly by butt hurt morons and neg sheep than it is to prove a point or to downvote a misleading or erroneous comment. It’s just a system so that special little wall flowers can continue to be passive aggressive.

    But I think that the deal comment system, while inherently broken, kinda works. The problem is that someone can have a neg removed for making a comment that isn’t related to their original neg vote comment. While they may have had a Valid reason to neg vote, a comment they made 2 pages later can cop the required 8 downvotes and their totally valid neg vote is wiped out over something that could possibly be over an unrelated comment…

    And this isn’t reddit… at least, unlike reddit, this site only gives the neg sheep 5 a day to hand out. This place wouldn’t be worth commenting on if people had unlimited neg votes.

    • +1

      and is used mostly by butt hurt morons

      I just don't bother voting at all, it's a bit pointless.

      That said, I'll downvote you even though I agree. Baaaa.

      Maybe the up votes should be limited to 5 as well. Or 5 votes regardless.

      • “Oh, look, a neg vote… I won’t read it or do any research myself… others have negged it, so I must as well… baaaaa.”

        Or

        “That comment is right/made me look like an idiot, but it hurts my feelings and I don’t like it…”

        And I think upvotes work well. Negs don’t work as intended. Negs need to be removed for the forum section, full stop. Negs in the deals comments section need to only remove a deal downvote if it is, for example, only applied to that persons first comment in the thread and is a base comment, not replies to other comments.

        • Nope, I love negging comments. Much quicker/easier than wasting time and effort explaining what is wrong or what you don't agree with. If the poster then asks who negged me and why, I usually then put my hand up and explain (if I see it).

          But I reckon the negs voters on comments should be visible like pos votes, or pos voters hidden like neg voters. Simples.

          • +1

            @John Kimble: I like the butt hurt neggers who go over your post history and downvote other comments at random. You will have the most random and benign comment in a random thread and it will have these random neg votes. And it can go on for days when they get their 5 votes back each time, come back and neg a few more historic comments…

            And I agree, Neg votes on comments should not be allowed if you have not contributed to that comment thread and if it wasn't anonymous, some of the idiot neggers may think twice about adding if it would show a track of them back-negging over old posts for no reason.

            • -1

              @pegaxs: Well, just apply the rules that deals have, if you neg you need to leave a response to the comment. That gets rid of the sheep and the lazy buggers aka John Kimble. Might even make some of them think.

              My favourite neggers are the "looser grammer nazi's", not only do they contribute nothing useful but they always neg you when you laugh at their humour-impaired pathetic little selves, eg: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/521310#comment-8390669

              The herd in action, what an asset to the forum they are.

              • -1

                @D C: A neg!

                I think the heard is hear!

                Baaaaa!

                Dye, grammer nazi's, dye! Ewe loosers!

                • @D C: Judging by your posts, I think you mean orthography Nazis…

                  • -1

                    @John Kimble:

                    orthography Nazis…

                    *nazi's

                    Well, they call themselves "grammer nazi's' which they think includes spelling & apostrophes, so humorless butt-hurt morons it is.

                    They really should sod off back to reddit (the bum hole of internet).

                    A chain of pointless comments because four idiots (we know who two are) need to show their "superior intelligence", and got upset because we laugh at their them for being useless.

                    Neg + comment (even a "ur a ijit") would sort that out.

  • You have been here couple of years and contributed what just 3 deals and want to neg for stupid reasons. If it's not a deal for you then simply ignore and move on. Stop whinging and start contributing to the community.

  • +2

    A good deal = POS vote, a bad deal =/= NEG vote.

    Wait, what???!!!

    Can we apply that to comments, then? A good/ biased to you/ feelz comment = POS vote, a bad/ don't like the poster/ hurts my feelz comment = you can't NEG, just ignore or a NO VOTE!!!

    Come on!!! @scotty what's your take in the OP?

    • I'd also be interested to know whether negative comment votes can remove a + on the deal (i.e. if this system is in place regardless of how you voted on the deal or if it's just designed to remove negative votes)

  • +1

    This one of the things that happens when someone stays in isolation for too long.

  • There's a mob mentality on any neg/pos voting forum like this.. Just look at reddit. Still doesn't change the fact your negative vote was invalid. Sall good we all make mistakes.. Let it go

  • Do you drink alcohol? If so, this deal might cheer you up: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/537630

    However, there has been a debate raging in the past few months about the fact that Beck's lowered the ABV of this product and a lot of interesting opinions to be read.

    Eagerly awaiting some +'s and -'s on this comment!

    • -1

      I saw that but I don't actually like Beck's so I ignored it.

      If I did like Beck's and didn't think it was a good deal I would have negged it.

      I have recently discovered the neg button isn't intended to show that you think a deal is a bad deal.

    • I live in another state, so I'm annoyed as per the usual :(

  • +4

    Op promoting sook mentality.

    • +1

      By questioning the way the site handles negatives votes and then questioning the reasoning behind the voting guidelines? I don't follow how I'm promoting being a sook.

      Your comment provides no useful insight at all regarding your thoughts of the above issues. I did highlight in my first paragraph that was the reason for the OP.

      But I suppose you didn't want to share your opinion for fear of being disagreed with and negged?

      It was easier just to insult me like the popular majority right?

      You're so brave!

      • +2

        The rules for negging a post are pretty simple. You didn't follow them, you got downvoted, your neg was revoked. The system works.

        Lol, might wanna check some of my posts if you think I care about the popular majority.

        • -1

          I see your posts all the time. I know you don't say popular things.

          That post was more informative than your first, which was simply insulting me for the sake of it.

          • @cheaplee: There you go then, why try to say that I've only commented to be with the "popular majority"? I thought everyone else, including a site moderator, had already summed up quite well why you were negged.

            • -1

              @brendanm: Because in this case it seems you have.

              The pertinent points had already been made, your comment was only intended as an insult. Lots of other people had done that before you. Therefore, in this instance, your post was simply jumping on board with the popular attitude.

              • +1

                @cheaplee: This is quite ironic. Am I not allowed to post my opinion?

                • @brendanm: Of course you are.

                  I was questioning the reasoning behind your statement. I haven't heard any yet.

                  • @cheaplee: I made my statement as I think you are being a sook, and I was a play on word with your thread topic. You didn't understand the rules, and then got upset when random people on the internet told you you were wrong. I didn't neg you in the comments above by the way, I'm all out for the day from another thread.

                    • @brendanm: I wasn't upset that other people told me I was wrong/negged me.

                      I disagree with the way the site is built to erase negative votes, even legit ones as noted below.

                      My reply to you was trying to ascertain why me having an issue with how the site manages negative votes makes me a sook.

                      • @cheaplee: When I replied, you were moaning that your neg was valid, and people were basically picking on you. That's not the case, and you have since found out how the rules work.

                        The site manages negative votes this way so moderators don't have to spend 24 hours a day modding posts. People neg just because they don't like the brand/store/poster, they get negged, and their neg is removed. Makes life easier. At the end of the day, who even cares if your neg is there or not?

  • +3

    There is no mob mentality on Ozbargain.

    We are all free thinking individuals with a passion for bikies, enelopes, high yield investment cars and MS Paint diagrams.

  • +1

    OP correct and groups of self interests will act in collusion as a example to remove negs in my opinion .
    Also people who are specialists in certain fields will often be frown upon and get the same treatment from the mob .

  • +4

    I think OP has a valid point to a degree. Sometimes deals get posted where its potentially only a 1 or 2% saving over a products standard price, yet somehow the deal gets 100+ votes? To me this is not a deal, yet my negative vote gets removed because apparently a 1% saving is a deal according to others.

    • +4

      Or the OzRRP posts that gets posted here for anything Nintendo related. Don’t dare neg a RRP Nintendo post. You will have the wrath of the community come down on you faster than a ban hammer…

      “BEiNg iN sToCk iS tHe BaRgAiN!!!1!1!!1”

  • +3

    I had my reasons and I don't really care what the rest of you think about my opinion.

    This is my favourite part. If you don't care, why bother posting a whole thread about it and continue to argue in that thread, with moderators??? Move on with your life!

    • Thank you for your opinion regarding my questions raised in the OP. I'm sure you did provide one, I just can't figure out what it is.

      I obviously cared about how 'the site' removes my negative vote to blindly follow popular opinion. I thought I made that clear with my post. That doesn't equate to giving a shit I was disagreed with. Did I once say the negs against me were mean or unjustified?

      Are you suggesting I shouldn't disagree/argue with certain members because they are mods?

      Move on with my life? Hmmmm, well I haven't put my life on hold to argue my point.

      Why bother having a site discussion board if nobody ever discusses the site?

      • Ok boomer

        • -1

          I'm confused. I'm not from the baby boomer generation.

          Would it make a difference if I was?

          Perhaps you should have just insulted me by calling me gay. But then you don't know that either do you? And saying that would have made you look like an (profanity) and possibly been banned for being discrimantory.

          This way you just look stupid, but no less discriminatory.

  • +7

    Man you're whiney. Recently I negged a deal that was actually a really good deal. So did a few others. It's because we disagreed with the product in general. Explained our reasons, had a healthy spirited debate. Our neg votes weren't comment negged out of existence.
    You just went along to a flybuys post and whinged you didn't want to see it. How about ignore it, instead of wasting yours and everyone else's by whinging? Your comment and vote deserved to be negged out of existence. It added nothing.

    Also, I personally love those flybuys posts. I'm terrible at checking my personal email so these let me know I may have a deal. Not useless for everyone.

    • -3

      I didn't waste your time bud. You did that all on your own.

      My time is to do with as I please.

      You didn't write all that to whine about how I'm being whiney right?

      • +1

        I'm sitting on a boat with only use of one arm at 8am..Ive got nothing better on.

      • +2

        And hey! I just noticed you didn't address a single point other than my snippet about time wasting! That's just being lazy and rude now. I made the effort to give you real world examples you can check up, but all you can do is pinpoint one arbitrary pointless snippet?
        Kind of insulted.

        • -1

          You felt the need to insult me in your first 3 words.

          I don't think I actually insulted anyone in my OP.

          You made the effort to insult me first, then give some reasoning why you think that insult was justified.

          I'm kind of insulted. But that was the intention of your post wasn't it, to insult me?

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