Solar Panel Inverter - Huawei or SMA?

LNZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 20:13

I have decided the solar panel brand (20 x Jinko Cheetah 330W) and 10 x optmisers (Tigo – needed because of shade from double storey house next door – North direction) however I am really confused between SMA and Huawei Inverter. I will be putting 10 panels on north (all panels on North will get optimisers) and 10 on south(My south is equivalent to North in a way because North has serious shading issues and east/west isn’t suitable to put enough panels)

In case you wondering why SMA(SMA has inbuild Tigo monitoring and much better features than Fronius)

I understand that SMA originally was made in Germany but the new ones are made in China so it doesn’t have the European made advantage anymore. Warranty difference for me doesn’t matter as my installer is a “Trusted SMA Solar Energy Partner” so I will get 10 year warranty on both SMA and Huawei.

Cost difference between Huawei and SMA is $450(Of course Huawei being cheaper). I understand Huawei is also battery ready(potentially helpful in future).

Is there any reason you would recommend me to go with SMA over Huawei? Is it worth paying $450 extra for SMA?

I would really appreciate if you can help me solve my dilemma so I can make a decision and move forward with Solar.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • CyberMurning on 12/05/2020 - 20:16

    huawei of course

    • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 21:24

      Thanks. Any reason for that? I am thinking Huawei as well but just want to justify that I am on the right track with reason.

  • Gratt on 12/05/2020 - 20:35
    +6

    The Chinese have banned import of Australian meat? SMA is a rock solid brand. The Chinese inverters have had a bit of a history of failing. Will the Huawei brand survive after multiple bans from governments around the world in the 5g arena? Will they exist in 10 years to honour their warranty? I would try to negotiate a lower price on the Chinese inverters if possible as their goods will carry a negative sentiment for a while to come.

    • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 21:23

      Thanks Gratt. Appreciate the concern however most things we buy in terms of products are manufactured in China so unless we completely transform our way of living and economy, simply choosing not to buy Chinese products because of some political drama is simply short sighted for me. TV/Fridge/Mobile Phone/electronics - I can keep going but I think you got the point.

      So simply because the product is made in China isn't a great reason to not buy it. Not all Chinese made products are crap quality - Google/Apple and even companies like Bosch make their products there.

      The pricing I have got from installer is fair and sharp so no point negotiating and certainly not because it's a inverter made in China

      • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 21:58

        Pretty sure Gratt isn't saying avoid made in China, he is saying avoid the Chinese brand.

        • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:08

          Thanks Cloudy. Maybe it's me reading between the lines with multiple mentions of "Chinese Inverters" and first line starting with "Chinese have banned import of Australian meat"

          • Gratt on 12/05/2020 - 22:58
            +1

            @NZ OZ Sam: The point is that if the Chinese government has just implemented some sort of ban on Australian products there will be some sort of local backlash. That will make Chinese products cheaper. This should be able to be used to our advantage to get lower prices. Paying extra for a warranty that may be useless is also a waste. I have an SMA inverter on my house. On my rental property I have a Chinese Goodwe inverter. Both have outlasted their respective warranties. I say disregard the Huawei warranty as it may prove worthless. If you do go for the cheaper inverter expect to get for less as they can expect that their products will become less popular in Australia.

            • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 23:02

              @Gratt: Ahh, that makes complete sense Gratt. Thanks mate. Yeah, it's just a hard choice. $450 isn't a big amount so deciding between SMA and Huawei might be a hard choice. From reviews I have read, other than the mobile phone monitoring/software, it's better than SMA but that doesn't mean it's as reliable as SMA. However at the same time, a lot of installers hate SMA and SolarEdge inverters because of high percentage failure. I guess, there is a lack of data on Huawei in Australia as it's fairly new here for residential.

  • Ok computer on 12/05/2020 - 20:46
    +1

    Why you putting panels on the south? No sun there bro! better off getting supper energy efficient appliances

    if solar it is then Go SMA if they tie better to your micro inverters.

    SMA are great, but also Fronius and Huaweii have great inverters. I have had them all installed on various buildings. Latest was Huaweii inverters on around 10 buildings ranging from 100kW to 30kW total of 460 KW .

    Circa early 2000 SMA used to be one of the only inverters around, they came out with a kick ass portal, which has taken others years to catch up.

    • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 20:50

      Why you putting panels on the south? No sun there bro!

      The reduction isn't as much as you would think, there are many calculators around to work it out.

      • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 21:19

        It's terrible, I remember looking at the calculators.

        In the summer its not a lot, it can even produce more in certain postcodes (not OP)

        But both east and west suffer circa 1/3 reduction in winter months and south is about 1/2 less IRCC, relative to north panels.

        • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 21:26

          Cloudy - Yes, I have recently read a massive study with difference between South and North with tests done over a 6 months period with different inverters, different optimisers and without optimisers.

          In the sample they chose of a 3.5 Kwh system, North produced 2.9Kwh and South did 2.1 Kwh. In my case, North is also going to produce the same as South. and probably only 10%-25% in Winter and I am OK with that.

          • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 21:56

            @NZ OZ Sam: was your study on based on your location, and given it was only 6 months which 6??

            It makes a big difference.

            When I put in my solar, my research found pretty much what I said. I have panels on almost true north and west, and with the benefit of micro invertors I can see the exact production of each panel.

            On a completely cloudless day, and I can see a perfect mountain graph of production, the a single north panel produced 1.14kw, and west panel produce 740kw.

            that is a 55% difference, from north/west. So to say you get 10-25% less in winter, I can only assume assumes clouded skys all winter long (which is true there is a lot of cloudy days).

            Here is a casual article I can find.
            "In Sydney south facing solar panels will typically produce around 28% less energy than north facing panels and the steeper the roof the less electricity they will produce."

            https://www.solarquotes.com.au/panels/direction/

            keep in mind this is Sydney, if your in Melbourne, you get even less than Sydney, as a % as you move further south of equator, and that 28% less is a year round average. Meaning, summer you might get 2-5% less, but in winter you should expect 40-50% less.

            • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:11

              @cloudy: Hi Cloudy,

              The percentage you mentioned exactly matches my research. I am expecting only 50% output from the South side and only 60% output from North. Given the low cost of getting a solar system, it's still better than not having solar but yes, I understand that for a 6.6Kwh system, I will only get output equivalent to a 3.5Kwh system and I am OK with that as I can't put panels in East or West so it's not like I have a choice here other than not getting a solar Panel system

              • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 22:26
                +1

                @NZ OZ Sam: I see what you mean now. As long as your happy with it, just don't thought those sales guys might have feed you something unrealistic. When I was researching, they can do that.

        • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 22:05
          +1

          It's terrible, I remember looking at the calculators.

          From your own link (below)

          In Sydney south facing solar panels will typically produce around 28% less energy than north facing panels

          or

          But in the far north the difference is not so great

          or

          in Townsville south facing solar panels will only produce around 17% less electricity in total than north facing ones

          or

          In Darwin south facing panels only produce about 15% less electricity overall than north facing panels

          So yeah a 28% reduction isn't terrible, sure its a DROP but its not the difference between night and day as some claim.

          so if 10kw was created by north panels, sure only 7.2kw would be created on south panels.

          Not really that 'terrible' but if south is your only choice its better than nothing.

          Don't get me wrong, its not my first, second or third choice for panels when installing, but its still workable.

          • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:13

            @JimmyF: Thanks Jimmy. That's exactly what I got from the installers and the engineers. South is the least favourable side but it's better than what most people think as most people(I thought that as well) that South gets no sun so it's a useless direct for solar where it's not useless but certainly only 60% efficient.

          • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 22:29

            @JimmyF:

            So yeah a 28% reduction isn't terrible

            this is where I disagree, I think that's terrible. But each to their own.

            I do think, the subsidy is a bit too generous when you get a house with shading and S side panels and still make the $$ worthwhile/effective (with subsidy).

      • Ok computer on 12/05/2020 - 22:25

        Me thinks not. But use photovoltaic engineering.
        Best of luck though,seems like you are doing it for fun rather than any other reason.😃

        • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:38

          Thanks mate. As mentioned above, My choice is to either don't get solar panels OR use North/South if I want to put solar panel system on my house.

          Is it for fun? No

          Do I really want solar panels on my House? Yes - The cost because of subsidies available is a no-brainer for me to even consider a less efficient system because of limitations with my house. Can't fit more than 3 panels on east or west and most inverters work best with atleast 5-6 panels in one direction(As per the installers)

          Do I have a choice when it comes to directions? No

    • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 21:18

      Thanks mate. I have spoken to 3 solar engineers and 15 different solar designers/installers and all of them literally said the same thing that except winter, panels on South will produce energy - Won't be as efficient as north but much more efficient than most people thing.
      - My north would potentially be worse given it's shaded because of the double storey house next door.

      • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 21:34

        You know when the subsidy is too great when a house with shaded north side considers south side panels.

        If you truly has such poor conditions for solar, I dunno why you would think of a battery.

        • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:54

          Yeah, I agree. Cost of solar panels is too good to ignore - The house is based in Melbourne North-West so certainly a very sunny location, however not as great as Sydney or other states

          Would or wouldn't think of battery?
          - Battery cost unlike solar panels hasn't gone down as fast as it has for solar panels. Also, there is no subsidy in my postcode for battery and battery ROI is aprpox. 8-9 years whereas solar panels is approx. 3-4 years. So currently, I don't see the value in installing a battery for my personal situation

  • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 20:49
    +1

    With so much shading issues and panels all pointing in different directions, why didn't you go Micro inverters?

    I went micros as I have shading issues too, best thing I ever did! Well worth the money.

    • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 21:20

      Hi Jimmy,

      I believe you are referring to Enphase micro-inverters. I am not looking to spend that much as the inverters as micro inverters like Enphase literally double the cost. I have looked at SolarEdge but that's still optimisers and not micro inverters.

      • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 21:57
        +1

        Enphase literally double the cost

        So you haven't gotten any quotes I take it, as you're throwing around FUD like 'double the cost'.

        Micros are about $200/panel, so in your case that would be $4000 for the 'inverter'. Considering you're already paying for 10 optimisers for half of your panels, I would think you won't be that far off the price of a micro system after you remove the string inverter costs etc.

        So yeah for a slight bit extra, you'll have a decent system that will work regardless of your shading levels and as your panels are pointing in all directions you'll be making the most of your solar. String systems are only as good as the weakest panel, which is what the job of the optimisers is, basically remove them from the picture so its not the weakest link. So your max output will be linked to your south facing panels.

        For my system it was under a $1k premium to go micros vs some bastardised version of string inverter with optimisers on most of the panels because of 'shading'.

        For me, it was well worth the money! I can see what each and every panel is doing, get reporting, have full overall power usage and power creation for the house.

        • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:15

          Got 15 quotes mate, too quick to judge, no?

          I am getting Tigo @ Cost price for $45 per optimiser so if total cost of my system is $3400, Enphase would be $5400. You can say well, that's not double, well it's actually 4 times the cost of Tigo Optimiser. I know most customers will get Tigos @ $70, I guess I got lucky with my installer who was happy to do a favour.

          Not saying Micro-inverters aren't useful or disregarding facts, I am simply not prepared to pay extra $2000 to put micro-inverters on only 10 panels.

          • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 22:42

            @NZ OZ Sam:

            Got 15 quotes mate, too quick to judge, no?

            Gee way to waste tradies people time….. Why so many?

            Not saying Micro-inverters aren't useful or disregarding facts, I am simply not prepared to pay extra $2000 to put micro-inverters on only 10 panels.

            Huh, you have 20 panels. If you go micro inverters, you put them on all panels, and you don't put in your optimisers or your string inverter.

            Anyhow choice is yours, carry on.

            • NZ OZ Sam on 13/05/2020 - 07:22

              @JimmyF: Looks like I missed the first line you wrote about wasting tradies time - Geez - Again quick to judge

              Unlike most customers, I got on the phone with installer and mentioned exactly what I want and asked for rough estimate. Except the 3 shortlisted installers, my phone call with other tradies was no more than 4-5 mins.

              I then compiled a list of all those installers along with information like, how long have they been in business, approx what they charge for 6.6Kwh system with Fronius/SMA, Google, solarquotes, product reviews ratings, do they use contractor or own staff for installing. I shared the information with other residents in the estate I am building the house in and a lot of those installers got an actual sale with that 4-5 min phone call with me so that's your answer to wasting their time - I was most likely wasting mine but was able to help myself, installers and some potential customers

              • OpayuOnam on 15/05/2020 - 13:45

                @NZ OZ Sam: I know unrelated to the topic, but care to share the list? I am very interested to get some info and save some time. Thanks in advance mate.

                • NZ OZ Sam on 15/05/2020 - 21:15
                  +1

                  @OpayuOnam: done. Located in Rockbank, Victoria. Shortlisted installers are: Sunline Energy, Shine Tech Solar and SunRun Solar.
                  Life Solar has also excellent reviews and pricing but I haven't been able verify authenticity of a single review hence didn't shortlist them

        • cloudy on 12/05/2020 - 22:28

          Micros are about $200/panel

          For my system it was under a $1k premium to go micros.

          Does that mean you got 5 panels? small system?

          • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:34

            @cloudy: Hi Cloudy and Jimmy. Yes, both of you correct that micro inverters are $200/panel hence my concern about cost mentioned above. I have been able to get Tigo Optimiser at $45 per panel and will be putting these optimisers on all 10 panels in the north direction affected by shade. I am going 20 panels in total - 10 in North and 10 in South

          • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 22:37

            @cloudy:

            Does that mean you got 5 panels? small system?

            I'm guessing you didn't read the entire statement

            For my system it was under a $1k premium to go micros vs some bastardised version of string inverter with optimisers on most of the panels because of 'shading'.

            So add up that optimisers add around $70-80 per panel, which are not needed on micros, you also don't need the string inverter, so you take that off the price. Say you got a $2000 inverter on a 20 panel setup, thats works out to be $100 per panel. So we are up to ~$170 a panel. So yeah, you do the math.

            • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 22:50

              @JimmyF: Simple Maths - Just using very basic reverse calculations rather than total cost and then taking STC and VIC Rebate off:
              Total system cost Approx. $3500 out of which Huawei Inverter is approx. $1600(Not sure of the inverter price as I am getting charged for the system but found the price by searching online for Huawei single phase 5Kwh inverter) and $450 Tigo Optimisers.

              If we take Inverter and optimiser off then it leaves $1450 just for panels

              We add Micro Inverter per panel for 20 panels @ $200 per panel = $4000

              Total System price with panels and micro-inverters: $5450 - Is it worth spending extra $2000, most likely yes. However I might not live in the house for more than 2-3 years myself so I potentially won't see much benefit but yes the future owner or tenants potentially will. Will a prospective future buyer know or specifically care about Enphase inverter vs a Solar Panel system - Most certainly not unless the person is fairly solar panel savvy

              • JimmyF on 12/05/2020 - 23:10

                @NZ OZ Sam:

                However I might not live in the house for more than 2-3 years myself so I potentially won't see much benefit but yes the future owner or tenants potentially will

                Then honestly don't install solar if you're planning to move in that timeframe……

                Renters/buyers rarely pay 'extra' for solar, so the resale value of the system is LOW.

                Put the $3.5k into updating something else in the house.

                Most certainly not unless the person is fairly solar panel savvy

                I'm solar savvy and currently looking at changing houses. I honestly don't care what is on the roof as most systems are either old/crap/small. What I care about is what way the roof is facing.

                I have factored in $20k as part of the 'purchase price' to install as much solar as I can get on the roof, something in the 10-15kw range (and most likely export limited to 5kw if single phase) and yes after having a enphase system, I would buy it again even if I didn't have shading issues. I like it that much.

                • NZ OZ Sam on 12/05/2020 - 23:33
                  +1

                  @JimmyF: Yeah man, I hear you. Whoever lives in the house would value from it even if they are not willing to pay a cent extra for it. I guess, the cost of the system is nothing as I can get $1888 portion of the cost interest free over 4 years so technically the system is only costing me $1700 and the installments over 4 years will be covered by the electricity bill I save on. So financially, it makes every sense to get it and also whoever live in the house from 2-3 years from now would benefit as well so if no return then at least, it's a favour to the next person.

                  Certainly the next house I get, will ensure that it has a nice unshaded north roof, houses in current estate are boundary to boundary hence the next door 2 storey house is causing so much shade.

                  Certainly had great conversations and glad I joined this website, normally I am just a visitor. Hopefully can find an answer for Huawei vs SMA but so far it looks like Huawei might be OK.

  • woodg on 13/05/2020 - 08:07
    +1

    SMA have moved the manufacturing of their inverters back to Germany.

    See https://review.solar/sma-100-made-in-germany-again/

    Just make sure you are getting a new German-made model and not an older Chinese made model (although you may be able to get the Chinese models at a cheaper price, and the Chinese models were only "assembled" in China from German-made components).

  • saltypete on 13/05/2020 - 09:50
    +1

    I installed a system a while ago and found Solar Quotes site really helpful. You will find that they will have some review of both inverters from an engineering perspective, and will talk about local support.
    I would have a good look at the associated energy information systems that come with them as the information from that will save you heaps if and when you start to look at batteries, and give you info on the best power deals for you.
    FWIW We went with Jinko panels and have had no issues.

    • NZ OZ Sam on 13/05/2020 - 14:33

      Been reading solarquotes website for months and have compared SMA and Huawei on there but couldn't find any great level of difference

  • bamzero on 13/05/2020 - 10:53

    Can try asking on here for answers from installers.

    • NZ OZ Sam on 13/05/2020 - 14:32

      Will do, thanks

  • dimitryp on 13/05/2020 - 12:19

    No opinion on Huawei, but i got an SMA 6kw three-phase inverter installed at my house a year ago.
    So far my experience has been:

    Performance: no problems there, does what it says, reaches it's 6kw max on sunny days, havent had any failures or outages

    Monitoring & portal: Poor - the portal is old and clunky and doesnt load half the time. The inverter also constantly has issues uploading data to it, but succeeds eventually so i do get all the data in there in the end (not a problem with my wifi).

    Tigo dc optimizers: i have these too since there's some shading on my roof, and my SMA definitely does NOT interface with them or monitor them, i dont believe this is a feature.

    Warranty: When i got mine a year ago (dont know if this has changed now) the warranty was 5yrs, and you could buy an additional number of years (up to a total of 20yrs!) of warranty. Pushing it up to 20yrs warranty is an additional $700. Havent done that yet but planning to. In my research, SMA were the only ones offering both part, labour & postage cost warranty, while i believe Fronius & others would have you pay for postage and potentially an electrician to do replacement.

    • NZ OZ Sam on 13/05/2020 - 14:15

      Thanks mate. Very valuable feedback. How old is your SMA? As the SMA inbuilt Tigo monitoring was only released approx. 10 months ago

      • dimitryp on 14/05/2020 - 12:36

        ah, interesting. my SMA got installed Aug 2019 but i think manufacture date is 2018. That's too bad, i would've liked some Tigo monitoring, as i have no idea how each panel is doing individually

  • Bellpop on 14/05/2020 - 07:45

    Had Hauwei installed at previous house. New house has fronius.

    They work exactly the same.

    Only difference is fronius is loud and Hauwei online portal/apps are much better.

  • bhutcho on 14/05/2020 - 14:32

    Out of interest where are you located and which installer are you considering as I'm going through the process myself.

    Thanks

    • NZ OZ Sam on 14/05/2020 - 15:01
      +2

      Located in Rockbank, Victoria. Shortlisted installers are: Sunline Energy, Shine Tech Solar and SunRun Solar.
      Life Solar has also excellent reviews and pricing but I haven't been able verify authenticity of a single review hence didn't shortlist them

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join