Possible Fraud? Demo Yaris Bought and Asked The Car Back

bargaingod123 on 04/05/2020 - 18:22
Last edited 05/05/2020 - 01:42 by 1 other user

Started a job recently and the company was getting a cheap car for me to travel around sites. The budget was $15000 and I found a demo Yaris which was 2300km on it.

The car was found on carsales.com.au and the sells appear to be a dealer. Due to the virus situation, the car was delivered to me and the cost includes the transfer of title service.

I got the car on 14th April and did a test drive before letting the companies accountant send the money through. I found out that the car doesn't have the owner's manual and service book before paying the money and the seller told me to go to any Toyota dealer and I will get the service book. (It concerns me but I told him I have recorded the phone call and he will be liable if I can't get the service book). He told me he has done the transfer of the title in that afternoon and my company accountant has purchased comprehensive insurance to that car.

I just got a call this afternoon from someone who claims to be from the dealer and ask me to have their car back and he will refund me the full amount due to them unable to provide the service book. I told him that it is not my decision as it is a company car and insurance has already been purchased on it, he offered to give me the insurance money too. He also told me that the car is still currently under his dealership. I told that guy I need to verify it and then called the original sells person (he hasn't been picking up my phone since the 15th April after I told him the Toyota dealer will not provide me service book). The sells person confirmed that the call was from his boss and he is not with the dealer anymore and I have a choice of return the car or not.

I went to service NSW this afternoon to check if the car is under my company or the deal and I was told that I may only check with the letter of the company's director. I was also told that to transfer the car to my company's name, it will also require the director's signature which I never gave to the seller.

I am not sure this is a scam or anything and I want to have some idea about this case before I go to my boss. After all, I am the one who screwed up the purchase and I want to minimise the damage to my reputation in the company.

Community, please Holmes this and give some advice. I left out some details to make it short but will reply to any comment.

Automotive

Comments

    • holdenmg on 05/05/2020 - 12:38

      There are less Pub Tests than there used to be.

      Anyway, any Yaris built is going to be post-Corona. lol

  • hongas on 05/05/2020 - 16:39
    +2

    I am sorry no comments other than I am loving this story- PLEASE let us know outcome of this!. thank you!

  • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 16:42
    +8

    Update, the car has not been transferred to company name.
    Service book is purchasable for $77.
    We do have the contract so the car should belong to us.
    Boss wanted to call the police but police don't take civil matter.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2020 - 16:47
      +3

      car should belong to us.

      But it won't if the car wasn't the dealers to sell in the first place.

      Could be a yet unreported stolen car, or it was a hire car someone hired then sold lol.

      Get the money back first and give them the car back.

    • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 16:56
      +11

      Why neg me for keeping you guys updated.

  • Vote for Pedro on 05/05/2020 - 16:46
    +8

    I read this and think to myself, how the hell do people get themselves into this sh*t. Then I look at some of the lengths people go to just to save 50c.

    All that’s missing from this story is a Nigerian Prince.

    • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 16:55
      +2

      On the surface, it's a legit dealer, ABN, ACN, car dealer number all checks out There are so many people buying second-hand cars privately, I thought I have already been the continuous one.

      • Vote for Pedro on 05/05/2020 - 16:59
        -1

        You paid for and took a car with no due diligence. Even a private seller will give you signed rego transfer paperwork (haven’t bought a car this way in 20yrs though, so not sure how it works). You also didn’t receive the rego in your name from dealer.

        I hope it works out for you, but geez, you gave yourself everything opportunity to be scammed.

        • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 17:05
          +1

          Yeah, maybe, I did do my research on verifying if it's a legit dealer though. For me at the time, it is like needing to verify if Officeworks legally own the open-box laptop I purchased from them.

    • Brick Tamland on 06/05/2020 - 08:34
      +1

      This is what gets me too. Some common sense and a reasonable dose conservatism in spending $15k of someone else's money surely would have avoided this situation. The market is literally flooded with 4-5 year old Corolla's and Camrys that would be on or under $15k. I know you don't get a warranty, but what are you getting with the Yaris with its mysterious background. Why didn't you check the log book on the test drive?

      • CBrads4 on 06/05/2020 - 08:42

        Seems like they didn't do a test drive (unless I missed that part). The car was delivered to them. I guess the deal looked good being an almost brand new car from what looked like a legit dealer at the time. Seems better than a 4-5 year old car on face value.

        Edit: They did do a test drive, but from later comments it looks like the test drive was done after the car was dropped off to them?

        • Brick Tamland on 06/05/2020 - 09:33
          +2

          This is true, there is probably nothing wrong with the car being almost brand new. Still it wouldn't be a transaction that I would be comfortable with. OP did say he test drove before giving the accountant the ok for the money transfer. I know when I buy cars the service book is like the first thing I look at. But again, being brand new maybe it wasn't something that springs to mind

          • Vote for Pedro on 06/05/2020 - 11:55

            @Brick Tamland: Geez, when i got my new car delivered to dealer I checked the log book was there (and all the other junk they threw in as part of the deal)

  • Blitz001 on 05/05/2020 - 17:00
    +3

    Is it normal for a company to let a brand new employee handle the purchase of a company car…..??

    • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 17:02

      I don't know, it isn't a luxury car or anything though.

      • Vote for Pedro on 05/05/2020 - 17:03
        -1

        That response pretty much confirms this is a troll post. Or, I don’t mean to be rude (but I’m about to be), OP is lacking in the upstairs department and should hand in his adult licence.

        • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 17:07

          I was simply proved a budget for a tool I need to use for work. The payment was sent from the company accountant to the dealer's company account.

          • Vote for Pedro on 05/05/2020 - 17:41
            -5

            @bargaingod123: New employee, company says go buy a car, here’s $15k. Company hands over money to some company with no due diligence. If true you and your new employer deserve each other.

            At the very least, everyone on OzBargain is going to be sceptical about any ‘deals’ you post.

            • bargaingod123 on 05/05/2020 - 17:52
              +16

              @Vote for Pedro: I didn't handle the money, and the car is not going to be under my name.
              This will be the last reply to you since you are just doing personal attack now.

                • wozz on 09/05/2020 - 05:36

                  @Vote for Pedro: @pedro let it go ya nugget. Your comments aren't helpful, and you suggesting OP should have known that the licensed car dealer was dodgy aren't helpful. It's not unreasonable for someone to expect that a dealer will act within legal guidelines. Not everyone will know the Normal process, some people don't even know how to pay bills.. not necessarily stupid people, but sometimes people just haven't been exposed to different things, hard as it might be for you to imagine.

                  • Vote for Pedro on 09/05/2020 - 07:31
                    -2

                    @wozz: You know OP bought a ‘demo’ car from a non toyota dealer (proceed with caution) sight unseen (Normal person would proceed with caution) from a dealer delivered by a random (red flag) with no log books (red flag) and more importantly no transfer of rego (flashing red lights), yet happily took for test drive and then still without rego paperwork, paid.

                    Fair enough, I see your point.

            • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 21:40
              +1

              @Vote for Pedro: be quiet

    • pegasusx on 05/05/2020 - 17:03

      New company to claim JobKeeper?

  • crashloaded on 05/05/2020 - 17:12
    +1

    Maybe there's bricks of cocaine hidden in it somewhere.

    • chrisie on 05/05/2020 - 19:19

      lol

    • BartholemewH on 05/05/2020 - 23:09
      +3

      OP stated car was purchased from a 'dealer'.

  • MinifiguresAU on 06/05/2020 - 00:17

    What do you do for work OP?

    • bargaingod123 on 06/05/2020 - 01:43
      +6

      Construction site administrator. I go through different construction sites to coordinate with sub-contractors.

  • pwnd on 06/05/2020 - 09:28
    +1

    Is it possible that the company has gone bust, into liquidation, and since the car is not transferred over to the new owner yet, it is considered as a company asset to be sold off and money returned to creditors?
    I would not be returning the car.

  • bargaingod123 on 06/05/2020 - 12:35
    +9

    Update, the dealer called me back and we agreed not to return the car and he has managed to send me the service book and manual in two to three weeks since it is sent from oversea. (time period matches what other larger Toyota dealer service department).
    He hasn't done the transfer of registration and he wants me to do it for him. We agreed that he will transfer the cost of registration and stamp duty to me before I go to RTA and do the transfer.
    His excuse about the service book is that he was just trying to do the right thing since he's former employee promised I will have the service book ASAP but he couldn't get it for at least three weeks. The excuse doesn't stand very well for me but I also don't see the catch here so I guess I will let it go unless someone brainstormed how I may get negative consequence here.

  • bargaingod123 on 06/05/2020 - 12:45
    +20

    A lot of people criticized me in buying this car. All I did is that I found a car suitable for my use and the seller has all the info checks out with all the government agency. I didn't see it as a back-yard deal as it is a formal business and it is just like found a deal on here on Ozbargain with a website that I never heard of, check the business and license, turned out to be a business registered for more than 4 years and everything else seemed fine. People also criticized me and my company about have $15k to a new employee. Firstly it is not a lot of money for a car and I didn't touch any of the money. If the company can't trust me making good choice then it wouldn't hire me, any project I am coordinating has a value much more than $15K. For the car, I came up with 3 possible choices, an Audi A1 (2012, 45000km), a Corolla (2016, 52000km) and this Yaris almost brand new, all at the $15K budget. My manager chose this one for future maintenance. (Left this part out as I don't think it is relevant).
    I don't know which part I can do better other than going to a large Toyota dealer but my instruction was to get a second-hand car at that budget. I would never get this deal with any larger Toyota dealer and I believed that I made a good choice of finding a registered dealer rather than from someone private.

    • Cave Fire on 06/05/2020 - 14:48
      +2

      Most people have heard the horror stories about used car dealers. You also have to see from the dealer's perspective. How can they make money on this car? The usual way is to buy a salvage or auction car, fix a few things and resell. Most people also recommend getting a third party mechanic to thoroughly check the car. This can cost around $270 for someone like RACV etc and they do all the work for you. I would still recommend something like this to avoid further issues. Toyota can advise further and I think their major service and safety check should be about $350. They might be less if it's just the safety check and no oil change etc. I would also recommend checking the engine number, Vin number and model year to see if they match what is on your contract and what is on the car.

    • wtfnodeal on 08/05/2020 - 05:23
      +1

      Try not to care too much about those comments don't help you with your situation and only pays attention to those genuinely try to help you here.

  • callum9999 on 06/05/2020 - 12:59
    +4

    I've never bought a car in Australia, but in NZ it was completely normal to buy a car from a non-official dealer. In fact, I don't think I knew a single person who went directly to the manufacturers.

    With so many of you effectively calling the OP an untrustworthy idiot for doing so, is it really that unusual?

    • Cave Fire on 06/05/2020 - 14:11
      +1

      Laws are different here. Firstly, you have wof in nz. The car is being checked for safety every year. Here some states don't have any safety checks at all. Others you have to get a safety check only when you sell. So dealers sometimes sell rejected cars or cars they fix up and their friend will say is safe. They are also less regulated in general and more ruthless.

    • gimme on 07/05/2020 - 07:34

      I'd wear that as a badge of honor. Generally the exact opposite of what numpties say here is accurate.

      • spackbace on 07/05/2020 - 10:43
        +1

        Generally the exact opposite of what numpties say here is accurate.

        But not so in this case, but good bandwagoning again!

    • spackbace on 07/05/2020 - 10:42
      +2

      but in NZ it was completely normal to buy a car from a non-official dealer.

      Of course you can buy a Toyota from a Mazda dealer, however the OP bought the car under the guise of it being a "demo"… You don't find Toyota demo's at Mazda yards, much less small wholesale yards

      • Vote for Pedro on 09/05/2020 - 08:00
        -2

        Yep. Deals that are too good to be true…

  • Klevakiwi on 06/05/2020 - 13:01
    +7

    Interesting thread.The term Demo gets used very loosely in the Motor Industry. As others have mentioned , if the selling dealer is not an Authorised Toyota Dealer then clearly the vehicle is not a Registered demo, as per NSW RMS requirements.
    All manufacturers have strict processes around their Dealers on selling cars to independent dealers, bottom line is it can get the dealer into a world of pain.
    How a non Toyota dealer ends up with a 2300k Yaris in stock is questionable. It’s unlikely to be a rental with such low kilometres.
    My thoughts are a hail damaged car that the Original Toyota dealer or their insurer has put through the auctions, which happens a lot, it just shouldn’t be described as a demo.
    However this is all guess work. Simply phone Toyota Australia customer support, with the Vin number and ask. At the very least you want to know which Toyota Dealer first registered the car, and you can follow up from there.
    Should they not be forthcoming with the information ask who the Toyota Area Manager is and contact him directly.
    First rule of buying a car. No books walk away. Whilst books occasionally get mislaid, they can’t be left in the glove box as they will get nicked, but unless you have been told up front that the car has no books, and you are prepared to negotiate with that knowledge, do not ever take delivery of a car,without books, if you have purchased on the understanding that the car has books.
    You should be looking at the books before making your buying decision, and a set of books that show a good service history, is a selling tool so the Salesperson should be happy to show them to you, the opposite applies obviously with poor history.
    Full disclosure, in retirement now from GSM roles in major Sydney New Car Dealerships

    • bargaingod123 on 06/05/2020 - 13:14

      Thanks for your input.

      I didn't know demo can be only registered with large Authorised Toyota Dealer and thought any registered dealer can have their demo.

      I will call Toyota Australia customer support to check the Vin as suggested.

      I didn't know the car doesn't have a service logbook until the car was delivered to me. I had a check-list on what needs to be checked and found out there isn't a service logbook after the 'Airtasker' deliver the car (before the accountant transfer the money). I didn't worry about the service history since the car is too new to have any service history and I was expecting a blank service book with the Vin on it. That is why I told the salesperson that I have recorded on the information he gave me on I'm able to get one from Toyota service department.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2020 - 09:42

      or their insurer has put through the auctions

      Also likely just a finance company repossession that was sent off to the auctions.

    • kiitos on 07/05/2020 - 13:00

      Why would service books be stolen? You'd have to alter the car details inside, or do they swap the pages or something?

      • Maxxiz on 07/05/2020 - 19:51
        +1

        Its usually just a sticker in the front of the book these days. If someone is trying to give a car some new history, a blank book is valuable.

  • CalmLemons on 06/05/2020 - 14:57

    so what happened with this in the end? was it cheap? you got the guys details? seems like he can give a bargain.

    it's a Toyota, who cares about the service book. we have an entire fleet of Toyotas, have never had a mechanical failure.

  • Klevakiwi on 06/05/2020 - 14:59
    +1

    Wether the vehicle was genuinely first registered as a Demo or in a Toyota Dealers name or sold and registered to an individual or company Government Dept etc, the original selling dealer should be a Toyota Dealership , large or small, makes no difference. Toyota customer service will have that in their Data Base.
    Also speak to them about replacement service books, and if the car has Toyota new car warranty.
    Despite your experience with the independent selling dealer, Toyota customer service are not bad people, their job is to assist you and I am confident they will
    Make a note of the things you want to discuss with them before calling.

    • bargaingod123 on 07/05/2020 - 12:53

      Yep, called them, they are actually very nice and helpful

  • msimpatient on 06/05/2020 - 19:49

    I feel like this is the 2nd portion of the scam where an offshore engineer needs to buy a car for his sick mum who is interstate and is willing to pay over and above your selling price.

    Some random is paid to pick up the car and deliver it to the buyer.

    I feel like if you had returned the car they would have refunded you in stolen money or not at all, but would have their car back.

    Don't accept this guys offer to pay you money to register the car. If they are legitimate then he will sort it out.

    Otherwise give the accountant the sellers number to sort it out.

    You need to step away from the money side of things asap.

  • bargaingod123 on 07/05/2020 - 12:52
    +17

    Seems people are not interested anymore, do you guys still want the updates?

    • kiitos on 07/05/2020 - 13:01
      +1

      Sure, you said Toyota was nice, were they able to give more info on the history of the car?

    • GoldenDragon888 on 07/05/2020 - 13:19
      +1

      Want updates please.

    • rod1709 on 07/05/2020 - 13:32

      yes, more updates

      • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 13:34
        +4

        YES! STRIP THE WHOLE CAR BACK TO A SKELETON TO FIND THOSE DRUGS!!!!

        [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 13:34 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • arcticmonkey on 07/05/2020 - 21:04

      Yes please.

    • tryagain on 08/05/2020 - 08:25
      +2

      Well, are there any updates?

  • Sterio on 07/05/2020 - 19:56
    +4

    After painstakingly reading 3 pages of “bargaingod’s” shenanigans I cant help but think he change his name to “Bargaingoose”. A course in streetsmarts wouldn’t go astray either. I also suggest your boss also undertake the course. Hopefully you can negotiate a discount for 2 enrolments.

    On completion of the above please come back and fill us in on how the story ends.

    • arcticmonkey on 07/05/2020 - 21:05

      Ouch! What happened to being friends first?

  • bigbadboogieman on 08/05/2020 - 11:39

    Well that was a 3 page roller coaster ride with a non-exciting end. Sometimes I feel OzBargain Forums could be a good place to pickup movie/drama plots.

    • spackbace on 08/05/2020 - 11:47
      +6

      I think OP is still thinking about how to end this story ;)

      • bargaingod123 on 08/05/2020 - 12:08
        +5

        Yes, I am still thinking but I dont believe it is the "thinking" you are implying. I thought this is going to resolve yesterday and I was going to post an update after all the paper works are done but I just ot a phone call from a person who claims he is a manager from a rental car company which own the yaris. It is understandable as the Chatswood toyota dealer told me that he was going to confirm what happened to the car yesterday. I talked to the rental car manager and he is still investigaing what is happening and im waiting for his call back. We think police might need to be involved and if that will be the case, I am not sure how much I will be allowed to disclose. I promise you that I WILL give update when I feel it is safe and will give a conclusion on the solution.

        • stumo on 08/05/2020 - 14:41

          Kiss your 15k goodbye once the police give the car back to its rightful owner lol. Best try get your money back stat.

          • Besean on 08/05/2020 - 15:02

            @stumo: Sounds like someone rented the car, traded it in to the car dealer, car dealer sold it to the OP… and the OP bought himself a stolen car. Lucky for him, he bought from a car dealer so the OP is somewhat protected, though he will probably have to go through the courts to get his money back. It'll be a while for him to get his money back now.

            • spackbace on 08/05/2020 - 15:27

              @Besean: Any dealer still requires rego papers as proof of ownership tho. Not sure how that scenario could even be possible unless multiple people dropped the ball.

              • justaperson on 09/05/2020 - 00:16
                +1

                @spackbace: Being a small, obscure dealer its very likely only one person dropping the ball could lead to such a situation. I don't know how acquisition forms on trade-ins work in NSW but in QLD all you need is the make, model, VIN and CRN. If its the same in NSW its very possible a smart scam artist could find the rental company's CRN and fool the dealer into acquiring it since all the info would match.

            • stumo on 08/05/2020 - 15:38

              @Besean: Yes thats what i mean. Once its in the legal system hes looking at getting $20/mo back for a very long time. If he can get the 15k back now, then bloody well do it.

              • holdenmg on 08/05/2020 - 15:55

                @stumo: This may be your best "vehicle"

                The Motor Dealers and Repairers Compensation Fund protects you when you buy or sell a vehicle through a licensed motor dealer or when repair work is being done by a licensed motor vehicle repairer. Dealers and repairers finance the fund through licensing fees. NSW Fair Trading is responsible for managing the Fund and assessing all claims.
                https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/cars-and-other-vehicles/r…

                • Vote for Pedro on 08/05/2020 - 16:31
                  -2

                  @holdenmg: I really struggle to feel sorry for you. It blows me away this happened. So many red flags. But the deal was too go to pass up. Same like those throwing money at westpoint ( I think thats what it was called) investment and those risking all their money on small caps.

                  There are always red flags. But in the heat of the deal and wanting to get yourself ahead, we ignore them.

                • bargaingod123 on 09/05/2020 - 23:43

                  @holdenmg: thx, this is helpful info to me at current stage

              • xuqi on 08/05/2020 - 17:12
                +1

                @stumo: This was always going to end up being a scam…

            • bargaingod123 on 09/05/2020 - 23:46

              @Besean: you got everything right. Now I need to figure out the money part. Not sure if the renter is with the dealer or not at this stage, they fooled rta for paperwork for sure

  • Cave Fire on 10/05/2020 - 21:16

    hmm.. found this on another thread about stolen vehicles: "You forgot to mention that if it's purchased from a licensed car dealer you get to keep the car as the dealer has to guarantee title and they wear the cost." Don't know how true that is… but yeah, how do you know that is the real rental car "owner"? Could be an elaborate scam by the dealers. Seems like they would have given your number as that's the only way they could contact you?

    • bargaingod123 on 10/05/2020 - 21:30

      Hopefully, they will, I am worried about the person who stole the car works with the dealer and the dealer is just going to declare bankruptcy.

      • Cave Fire on 10/05/2020 - 21:41

        I read this as well… If a car turns out to be stolen, the purchase price must be refunded by the dealer or, if no longer trading, the Motor Dealer Compensation Fund. Someone has covered this point above. I would record the calls (legal in VIC) and only follow the police's advice or get some legal advice.

        • bargaingod123 on 10/05/2020 - 22:24

          Do you reckon I would get compensation on the insurance we paid on the car? I may need to start renting a car before this get resolved, my boss is saying that he will rent a car and seek the money back from the dealer from the court. Not sure if it is going to work, but not my problem anymore I guess.

          • Cave Fire on 10/05/2020 - 22:30

            @bargaingod123: The insurance company may be able to give a refund. Technically, the car was insured and you did gain a benefit from it (if you have claimed). You can backdate a cancellation to when the car was off the road. So your cost is actually just the days before and after the accident.

            • bargaingod123 on 10/05/2020 - 22:47

              @Cave Fire: I'm not even sure if the insurance company would honour a stolen car's benefit but it belonged to a rental car company so repair wise, it shouldn't be a big problem. I'm really worried about how am I going to work for the coming weeks.

  • iknowtj on 18/05/2020 - 17:44

    I'm still amazed you didn't get hand the car back and get your money back.

    Seems to have become a mountain much bigger than it needed to be.

    • bargaingod123 on 18/05/2020 - 17:49

      The police is still "investigating"

      • iknowtj on 18/05/2020 - 17:51

        Yes but you were offered to return for refund very early in the piece, you choose not to.

        • bargaingod123 on 18/05/2020 - 17:55
          +1

          Yeah, I regrated that too. The communication between that dealer to me was very bad, I call him 10 times everyday without anyone pickup and he calls me back twice in total and I was worried that the return process is not going to be as promised so I retained the car.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join