Holden Axed in Australia

spackbace on 17/02/2020 - 13:06

https://www.caradvice.com.au/827459/holden-axed-in-australia…

The Holden brand will be retired at the end of this year, selected showrooms may stock a limited range of Chevrolet vehicles under new General Motors Specialty Vehicles badge.

Well, writing has been on the wall for a while but it'll be sad to see it go. I'm sure majority of people have had a Commodore in the family at some point.

Wonder what will happen with the V8 Supercars now? GM likely won't bother spending money on it, as it won't generate into business in the showrooms.

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Comments

      • deme on 17/02/2020 - 15:33
        -1

        Are you insane?

        Try this? Name the demands and the costings.
        Then go look at their profit margins.

        • Skramit on 17/02/2020 - 15:54
          +6

          Are you insane?

          Not the last time I was assessed.

          the demands

          The demands were over the top and short sighted by the unions. But I don't blame the unions for their behavior necessarily, they are there to get the best deal for their members. The problem was they priced Australian manufacturing out of the market over the decades….even after all the warnings from Toyota.

          https://www.afr.com/politics/former-toyota-boss-says-unions-…

          I also said they "contributed" not solely responsibile. At the time the dollar was high, and people were moving to SUVs. It all contributed.

          • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 17:22
            +5

            @Skramit: I would say that it was the predominant factor.

            If it was the Commodore that closed in isolation, perhaps it was a bad product.

            The Falcon closed up also. Maybe also a bad product?

            Camry also up and left. Camry a bad product?

            All around the same time no less. Everyone decided simultaneously that all three are bad products?

            All of these plants had one thing in common. Maybe, just maybe, the common factor killed all three.

            • Skramit on 17/02/2020 - 17:47
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: That’s true. But the high dollar was smashing them all at the time too, same with the SUV preference. Ford only had the territory and it’s a big car. People were looking for fuel efficient small SUVs for some u known bloody reason lol. Trends had changed!

              I remember reading about the Toyota Adelaide plant conditions and it was astonishing. Something like 16 weeks leave, 20 sick days etc etc, many basic production line workers on $60+ an hour with overtime’s.

              No wonder it was unsustainable.

              All the documents I could find showed a $3000 increase to manufacture a car here vs Asia. That’s more than 10% of the RRP on some cases. Crazy to keep manufacturing here.

              • TheMindsetTraveller on 17/02/2020 - 18:44
                +1

                @Skramit: A bit unfair re: union.

                Falcons and Commodores were a dying type of car and both Ford and Holden failed to understand that. Everyone started to buy a SUV and they couldn't move fast enough to design a competitive product that could be built here. They did try with the Territory and Captiva? / or that raised Commodore wagon. Both of them failed.

                Many manufacturers started installing smaller capacity turbo charged engines, Holden and Ford continued pressing with with 4.0 litre six cyliners …. a 2.0l turbo has more kw and torque of some in line sixes.

                Cars are being built in cars where wages are crazily low relative to ours. Someone might buy a BMW and expecting made in Germany but its not, try Mexico. Similarly Mercedes can be built in Brazil or Argentina. YOu buy an Audi, hello made in Hungary. Some cars are built in China / India where wages are much lower.

                Even though wages were high, Falcons and Commodores were $30k-$45k which isn't breaking the bank, it's just they were dinosaurs.

                • spackbace on 17/02/2020 - 18:46
                  -1

                  @TheMindsetTraveller: Cost of local production was ridiculous, due to labour rates

                  continued pressing with with 4.0 litre six cyliners

                  Except Holden didn't use a 4L…

                  • TheMindsetTraveller on 17/02/2020 - 19:12

                    @spackbace: they didn't it was just a reference, 3.8l ecotecs? blah dinosaur engines, rough as guts, fuel inefficient etc etc

                    • smartazz104 on 18/02/2020 - 22:36
                      +1

                      @TheMindsetTraveller: At least they didn't build cars that required engine replacements early in their lives like some makes that get more credit than they deserve…

                • Skramit on 17/02/2020 - 19:10
                  +2

                  @TheMindsetTraveller: I think we all agree it was a combo of all factors. Shitty dinosaur cars coupled with unions pushing for higher wages whilst the AUD was smashing exports. A very unattractive place to build cars.

                • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 20:58
                  +1

                  @TheMindsetTraveller: Blaming the Commodore/Falcon closure on technology sounds reasonable but that does not explain the Camry.

                  Mid range prestige models are still made in Germany. Holden and Ford was obviously not delivering value proportional to our wages.

                  At the end of the day, as a country we are asking to be paid a dignified (honestly, it is exorbitant for low level assembly line skill level) when we couldn't contribute to making a better car or improve the process to make a cheaper car.

                  Losing our jobs to a less successful country isn't a sign of achievement. We lost our jobs alright and it all boils down to - we are not worth our asking price ie. Union's demands.

                  • TheMindsetTraveller on 17/02/2020 - 21:50

                    @[Deactivated]: So are you saying 'exborbitant' (due to union's demands) wage was the main cause of Holden's local demise?

                    I can see how unions have helped lower skilled workers, never been in a union myself nor needed to. I am on the mindset that if I can't afford something, it is my fault and absolutely no one elses. If I want a $100k car or $2m house, I will find a way to get or improve my skills, study, work harder, do what I need to and make the money to buy it.

                    Re: commodore/falcon dead yet camry is still going strong; Camry's aren't made in Australia - and they are doing extremely well in north america.. In Australia, they do sell reasonable well, even though its only half of corollas, or a third of hiluxes. The difference I think is that when the Toyota brand has two cars (Hilux,Corolla) in the top 3 cars sold nationally year on year, and a Camry which does reasonable OK, they can keep the Camry going I would think. Holden on the other hand has nothing; weak sales all round and a combined total sales that is 20% less than Toyota Hilux.

                    That said, unions are on the way out. Liberals are making them obsolete. Technology and other things is also changing/disrupting how the labour and workplaces are right now.

            • Randolph Duke on 17/02/2020 - 23:43
              -5

              @[Deactivated]: Yep, there was one thing in common - no protection from imports. The complete opposite of every other car making nation in the world.

              But it's OK, we'll subside mining for billions. Complete short sightedness from the LNP, and for Scotty from Marketing to come out today and act like the public would be upset with the manufactures is his usual, inept rubbish.

              • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2020 - 08:58

                @Randolph Duke: So your answer to protectionism fueled complacency is more protectionism.

                • Randolph Duke on 18/02/2020 - 11:06
                  +4

                  @[Deactivated]: Countries who protect their auto industry: have an auto industry
                  Countries who didn’t protect their auto industry (Oz and NZ): no longer have an auto industry

                  • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2020 - 12:35
                    +1

                    @Randolph Duke: USA has 2.5% import auto tariff.

                    Australia has 5% import auto tariff (has been around before the closures of Falcon, Commodore and Camry).

                    Maybe the answer to more protectionism ontop of protectionism is even more protectionism.

                    • Dogsrule on 18/02/2020 - 18:16

                      @[Deactivated]: "USA has 2.5% import auto tariff".

                      Well, that and an 80 billion dollar bailout, but who's counting aye:

                      https://www.marketplace.org/2018/11/13/what-did-america-buy-…

                      • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2020 - 18:48

                        @Dogsrule: They bailed out many other industries as they were going through a recession. They spent $80bn for their $752bn.

                        Our auto industry died in isolation for reasons clearly specified by those running the industry. A bailout there wouldn't be building an industry, it would be appeasing unions.

                        • Dogsrule on 18/02/2020 - 19:50

                          @[Deactivated]: Indeed, as you say, protectionism is widely utilised by most first world economies. Heavy tariff’s are of course, on the nose these days, so governments like the US and Germany engage in bailouts, subsidies, favourable government contracts etc to transfer public money to private companies. How foolish we are to have been manipulated into believing protectionism is for backward, economically regressive nations.

                          • [Deactivated] on 18/02/2020 - 19:54

                            @Dogsrule: You're missing the point.

                            Everyone country has some form of protectionism but the degree of protectionism matters and protectionism are crutches.

                            The goal of a successful economy is to be robust and the aim of crutches is recovery.

                            You seem to take protectionism as a goal.

  • Hackney on 17/02/2020 - 14:40
    +14

    Really sad to see this,which was once such an iconic brand & part of the Australian landscape.Grew up with the brand.Grand parents purchased a new EH in 1964.Dad purchased a GTR Torana in 1972(while I had a Twin Cam Escort) Use to “drool” over the HK GTS’s.Whatever people think of Holden,do not forget they brought a lot of joy to people & fans alike.There is NO point pointing fingers @ them,or being negative etc…RIP.(The posters who are so negative @ the brand,give it a break! It really is a Australian icon.)

    • snooksy on 18/02/2020 - 10:08
      +2

      The cars you are talking about are from another generation. I’m 36 and i don’t think I’ve seen any of those cars in the flesh. Holden failed around 2005 when it should have transitioned to smaller engines vehicles and instead kept producing hoon mobiles that the vast majority of buyers avoided. Holden sedans, which is what they were known for became too big and used too much fuel. Hybrids and electric vehicle platforms are where the next decade of motoring will be and Holden just recently transitioned to a turbo 4 cylinder sedan in what 2015? Every company GM touches is doomed - Saab, Opel, Daewoo whereas competitors such as Volvo, Skoda and Hyundai/Kia do well. Holden failed to transition to smaller engined Sedans and even now were failing To compete with Hybrids (Camry) and electric vehicles. They missed the boat on more efficient sedans. They also missed the boat on luxury sedans like Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes. They had their time in the sun when petrol was 60c or less per litre. After that they became irrelevant. Sure their will always be a few loyal followers just with any extinct brand or technology but the mainstream buyer moved on 15 years ago. Unions didn’t help because you surely don’t pay a factory line worker in Germany $60 an hour and you certainly don’t Pay anywhere near that in Thailand. Holden was a Dinosaur from a time now past. They failed to innovate and made poor decisions on the types of cars made available in Australia. They messed up first in the sedans then in every other category such as the barina, etc.

      • spackbace on 18/02/2020 - 10:20
        +1

        Stopped reading after should've stopped at 2005.

        VE/BA were huge sellers for both companies and very popular.

        • trongy on 18/02/2020 - 20:14

          Nokia was the leading seller of mobile phones in 2005, but that didn't last.

          Looking back a the Commodore sales figures, the long term decline had already begun in 2005. The company shouldn't have stopped selling Commodores, but they needed to implement a new strategy at that time if they were going to have a long term future.

      • Hackney on 18/02/2020 - 12:00

        GM admitted they got it wrong,they did not respond quick enough in the Australian market place.They did transition to smaller sedans (Astra, Cruze(albeit not a good one) .I also think their hands were “tied” by Detroit in many ways.They pull the purse strings.In fact the current “Commodore” is a very good vehicle,just was never excepted by the buying public.As far as luxury sedans go,they only have the North American market to draw from.There is nothing in their European portfolio.Statesman was their only luxury car in our market.But,it sales were dismal towards the end.

      • pharkurnell on 20/02/2020 - 16:40

        I’m 36 and i don’t think I’ve seen any of those cars in the flesh.

        You need to get out more.

      • Randolph Duke on 21/02/2020 - 00:23

        This completely ignores that Holden was a subsidiary of GM - why would they let Australia build small or medium sized cars when they had plenty of those cars available from other markets? Where Holden (and Ford), or more precisely, where GM & Ford Global failed was failing to sell Falcon and Commodore to export markets in any decent quantity - SS-V and XR6 Turbo more than stack up against anything similarly priced in the US, and top line HSV models always compared favourably $ wise for fun against the Euro's hot sedans. Crap marketing and crap support.

        • Euphemistic on 21/02/2020 - 08:10

          The falcon and commodore (and fast variants) probably had a stigma attached to them similar to what we think of American cars. American sedans and SUVs never really sold in Aus because they were/are considered to big with no fuel efficiency or handling. Great for smooth interstate highways, rubbish for Aussie outback highways where steering and stopping is essential.

          The Europeans probably thought our vehicles were too big and basic. The commodore and falcon would more likely sell well somewhere like Africa, except it isn’t developed enough to cope with ‘luxury’ sedans.

          • Randolph Duke on 21/02/2020 - 08:45

            @Euphemistic: We’ll never know because they barely tried. But most motoring journalists overseas enjoyed any of the sporty models they tried.

  • Hithere on 17/02/2020 - 15:08
    -2

    give it a break! It really is was a Australian icon.

    Fixed for you.

    • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 16:04
      +18

      give it a break! It really was an Australian icon.

      Fixed for you.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 15:14
    +2

    I hope this means I get to pick up a Colorado for cheap.

    Reckon I can try for a top spec Colorado for $40k? :P

    • Skramit on 17/02/2020 - 15:19
      +2

      Probably worth a shot. Colorado is one of the few decent GM products here in Aus

      • jimbobaus on 18/02/2020 - 00:43
        +5

        Decent!?
        The Colorado is rubbish and always has been.

        • Skramit on 18/02/2020 - 08:25

          Um ok? lol

        • Euphemistic on 18/02/2020 - 11:27
          +1

          Those who use 4wd utes seem to love the Isuzu - which is a Colorado twin. They have been Isuzu since the beginning. It’s only the latest generation where the Isuzu engine was pulled from the Colorado and they stuck a US engine in it that the Colorado really went downhill.

          • Dogsrule on 18/02/2020 - 18:32

            @Euphemistic: Twins under the skin only till 2012. As you say, after that the Colorado switched to a much less reliable engine and transmission combo. Engine is from some garbage Italian mob called VM Motori, notorious for drinking oil, plus the tranny is known to blow torque converters. Isuzu diesel engine/trans have always been their own design, very reliable.

    • Skramit on 19/02/2020 - 14:43
      +1

      https://www.caradvice.com.au/827940/holden-discounts-2/?sour…

      The biggest discounts are on the Holden Colorado ute, ranging from $13,000 to $17,500, slashing the drive-away cost by up to one-third on some models.

      GO GO GO T SHOW!

  • deme on 17/02/2020 - 15:32

    Chevrolet vehicles under new General Motors Specialty Vehicles badge.

    Easy to identify fools

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/02/2020 - 15:34

    So what happens to people who have purchased a Holden and have manufacture warranty? what happens to all the deal-ships? I got a Equinox last year and it has a 5 year manufacturer warranty i got it ridiculously cheap (i knew holden were doing bad but not this bad)

      • pegaxs on 17/02/2020 - 16:44
        -6

        Hahahaha…. they are not honouring warranties.if there is no dealer network left, where the hell do these Holden owners take their warranty issue to?

        • jimbobaus on 18/02/2020 - 00:45
          +2

          Dealerships that remain but change brands will be flagged as authorised service centres for Holden warranty.
          Like near me there is a Holden Dealer who started also selling VW and Kia last year. He will most likely continue as a authorised service centre for warranty claims and the like.

  • caramellokoala on 17/02/2020 - 15:37
    +1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B3ZHsOdeYo

    This guy picked it like a dirty nose two months ago..

  • grog on 17/02/2020 - 15:38

    "So what happens to people who have purchased a Holden and have manufacture warranty? what happens to all the deal-ships?"

    I think the law states that manufacturers must keep parts for 7 years after a model is discontinued?.

    So they will have to have some sort of access for warranty and parts for years yet

    • field1985 on 17/02/2020 - 16:19
      +2

      The Brits still have Left-Hand driving and they get almost all their cars from Europe.

      There is no benefit to changing, but there would be a monumental cost (changing millions of signs/road markings/overpasses/traffic signals/etc).

      • Chandler on 17/02/2020 - 17:20
        +1

        but there would be a monumental cost (changing millions of signs/road markings/overpasses/traffic signals/etc)

        No there wouldn't! You just need to turn them all around!

        /s, just in case…

        • field1985 on 17/02/2020 - 17:30
          +4

          LOL
          It's not without precedent. Sweden changed from left > right in just 12 hours (after years of preparation).

          But they had a reason to switch. Every country they bordered used right hand drive.

          That Time Sweden Changed Its Traffic Direction in a Single Day

          • Euphemistic on 18/02/2020 - 08:11
            +2

            @field1985: Interesting that drive on the left has lower risk of collision (assuming this is accurate). Presumed because of right side dominance in people. Right eye closer to the action. Right hand on wheel as opposed to gearstick. Probably other factors too.

    • smartazz104 on 18/02/2020 - 07:33
      +2

      Why would we want European cars when we can get Japanese ones instead.

      • cameldownunder on 19/02/2020 - 11:17

        Oh is Japan also driving on the left side of the road ?

  • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 16:09

    I wonder how this will effect the holden second hand market prices / trade in values etc.

    Pretty sure plenty of people's cars just lost thousands in value this morning.

    • spackbace on 17/02/2020 - 16:11
      +4

      Commodores have been pretty stable lately, and I doubt they'll be affected by this as the Aussie built ones weren't available any more anyway.

      Probably have a direct effect on imported 'Commodores', Equinox, Acadia and Colorados

      Basically anything bought in the last year or 2 will take more of a dive

      • ESEMCE on 17/02/2020 - 16:17
        +3

        Depends how much Holden discount their new stock.
        If new cars can be had at or below the current market rate for a Used equivalent, the Used prices must drop accordingly.
        Wouldn't want to be a dealer who has been pre-registering vehicles!

      • RichardF89 on 19/02/2020 - 17:18

        Will Toyota do anything to protect their market?

    • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 16:33
      +3

      The last of the aussie Commodores would have been sold to people who knew the future (or lack thereof) of Holden.

      Those considering an aussie Commodore would have taken this into account also. I doubt there is going to be any change for that particular lineup.

      Everything else will suffer. Vintage excluded.

      • ESEMCE on 17/02/2020 - 16:36
        +1

        Agreed.

  • field1985 on 17/02/2020 - 16:25
    +10

    Good riddance. Every Australian has been subsidising the inefficient production of these crappy cars for decades.

    Over $2 billion wasted in the past decade alone. That's $10 a year for every person in the country, year in year out. That not a business, its a charity.

    • ShortyX on 17/02/2020 - 17:57
      +7

      That's $10 a year for every person in the country, year in year out.

      Are you telling me I could have had a free Big Mac meal every year?

      • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 18:03
        +2

        Maybe a small meal. Pretty sure the large meal deal is greater than $10.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/02/2020 - 21:38
        +1

        Cut out non-working age and low income earners, if you're mid income it would be a pretty decent pasta and a table white.

    • t_c on 17/02/2020 - 20:28
      -5

      2b is nothing compared to what they spent on the nbn

    • smartazz104 on 18/02/2020 - 07:34
      +7

      Wait until you find out how much the Germans subsidise their car manufacturers…

  • PinzVidz on 17/02/2020 - 16:40
    -6

    Bye bye, shitboxes.

    • smartazz104 on 18/02/2020 - 07:35

      There's no shit cars, just shit drivers.

  • Velt on 17/02/2020 - 16:55
    +2

    Interesting, might be able to pick up an Insigniadore or Astra for peanuts

    • BOGOF on 17/02/2020 - 17:13

      Opel-Vauxhall was bought by Peugeot-Citroen in 2017, so those models are not GM anymore anyway. I doubt they will bring in any more Insignias & Astras after this year, so you may pick up a deal, but not because of GM.

  • Euphemistic on 17/02/2020 - 17:23
    +3

    Apologies. I may have had a part in the demise.l, the HOlden Racing Team lunch box I’ve been using for about 10years was ditched this morning. Had been in the garage over the weekend, spotted a cockroach that then crawled into the lining. Joker food in there then.

  • CalmLemons on 17/02/2020 - 17:25

    Geez what happens if you are a dealer? Pretty much lost your entire business especially if you brought it?

    • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 17:30
      +9

      Where did they bring it from?

      • CalmLemons on 17/02/2020 - 19:09

        What? I was referring to the car dealers, if you had bought a holden car dealer -

        • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 19:10
          +4

          OK that makes more sense ✈

    • MS Paint on 17/02/2020 - 18:06
      +2

      The main text is a nice font. Does anyone know the name?

      • ccrap on 17/02/2020 - 18:24
        +35

        It’s Times New Bankrupt, from a new collection of sans profits fonts.

      • johnno07 on 17/02/2020 - 18:43
        +5

        It's Zona Pro

      • readeral on 17/02/2020 - 18:50
        +3

        It's Zona Pro, in font weight 800

    • syousef on 17/02/2020 - 21:23

      Font is: Ha Ha We Got Your Money Australia.

      • smartazz104 on 18/02/2020 - 07:35

        But they don't, GM has it.

  • askme69 on 17/02/2020 - 18:11
    -1

    Maybe it's time to switch to LHD?

    • SydStrand on 17/02/2020 - 19:01
      +9

      Japan, the biggest automaker country in the world, is RHD so that’s not the problem. The RHD conversion cost is just a canard. If you make a viable product, people will buy it. GM execs have been pointing the finger at everyone but themselves, while they made crap, rebadged other crap, and pocketed billions from taxpayers.

      • Ocker on 17/02/2020 - 19:22

        Irony is that although Japan is RHD, the majority of sales there for prestige brands such as Porsche, BMW, MB etc are in fact LHD models. All part of the image of displaying ones wealth.

        • jimbobaus on 18/02/2020 - 00:48

          That’s all about to change.
          Japan following suit with other countries by requiring cars to be RHD or converted from next year (2021) (exciting owners won’t be affected)

  • Duckie2hh on 17/02/2020 - 18:55
    +2

    Deserved it. Serves them right, for selling poorly made cars with no innovation.

    I would like to see Aussie bogans, supercharging some Toyota Yaris next year.

    • Euphemistic on 17/02/2020 - 19:00
      +7

      How about turbo big block Yaris?

      https://youtu.be/j6D9pB5Ig9Q

    • Emerald Owl on 18/02/2020 - 01:47
      -2

      Heartless?

      • Duckie2hh on 18/02/2020 - 09:16

        $2.17 billion in Aus government subsidies to help them over 12 years…

        Just shows that when you have rotten management for a head, the rest of the body will die off.

      • spackbace on 18/02/2020 - 10:26
        +9

        Likely posted by someone who knows only about the last few years of Holden, and not its history, or just chooses to ignore it.

        Ford and Holden's rivalry pushed each other to do better. There was a time where a Bathurst win generated business in the showrooms.

        The "Ute" which was a purely Aussie thing, made for our market only.

        The Sandman panel vans where many a kid was conceived.

        The Kingswood, Monaro, and later the Commodore.

        And Peter Brock in a Holden.

        The company had huge influence on this country, and to say good riddance is just ridiculous.

        • Duckie2hh on 18/02/2020 - 10:40

          100% agree with your comments.

          Having a historical look at Holden and Ford is perfectly fine. I miss and reminisce the good old Toys'R'Us days and are sure that most adults would have had some type of interaction (in some form or another) with them. Give it a few years and this is how we will remember Holden.

          But whilst the wound is still fresh, people will undoubtedly think of the recent poor performances which has ultimately led to their downfall.

        • Hackney on 18/02/2020 - 13:26

          @Spacebaclk yup,I had a brand new HQ Sandman 253 4spd way back in 1974 in the iconic “Chrome yellow”!

          • spackbace on 18/02/2020 - 13:32
            +2

            @Hackney: How many kids were conceived, or how many kgs of pot were consumed in the back? :P

            I'm not of that 'vintage', but my dad tells the stories of the cars etc in the 70s. Poor kids of today, with all the cops and more regulations etc just don't know how it was

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