Possible Loophole - Electric Scooters in NSW. Are They Legal for "Less Mobile" People Classified under Electric Mobility Device?

Lbigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 21:20

I have been researching electric scooter use in Sydney and are familiar with the laws - that they are currently illegal to ride within public areas.

However, reading into the NSW Road Rules 2008 Legislation:
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/~/pdf/view/regulation/200…
https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/ontheroa…
There appears to be a possible loophole that would allow riders who can define themselves as "less-mobile" to use a "two or more wheeled" eScooter that is not capable of travelling more than 10km/h,

Simultaneously, there are regulations in place to dis-allow riders for any powered foot device. "Powered foot scooters and skateboards cannot be registered and can only be used on private land"

What are people's thoughts on this?
Do you think this possibly opens up the potential to ride an an electric scooter in Sydney?

It does not appear that a form of proof or explanation is needed for an individual who is "less mobile"?
So If I need to travel between work and home at 10km/h, I will certainly be "less mobile" after the first few km's of running!

I also understand there are not many eScooters out there that can travel no-more than 10km/h, however maybe a firmware flash on the Xiaomi M365?

Maybe the risk is still high for fines, but is there evidence of police in NSW actually enforcing? I see everyone riding around whenever I'm in the city? Surely this would not be the case if they were.

Automotive Electric Scooter

Comments

  • Hybroid on 29/01/2020 - 21:27

    People use electric scooters all over Sydney CBD. Didn't know they weren't permitted. There's loads of Ninebots around.

    • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 21:29

      Yeah, but they'd know pretty quick when they get fined? But I assume that is not the case?

    • Zackeroo on 15/09/2020 - 19:29

      I couldn't agree more with what you said… I just ordered an ES2 and then found online that electric scooters are illegal in NSW… I've seen SO many scooters in the Sydney CBD, and that's honestly one of the main places which drove my inspiration to buy an electric scooter for myself… I see people skimming past me and I just found it awesome…

      Now I must find a way to get around this limitation and not get caught… I am however lucky since the Ninebot looks much less like an electric scooter, and the lack of the external battery which is present on the ES4 makes this look like a normal, average scooter - So I'm hoping I'll be lucky enough to skim around without being caught :)

  • Euphemistic on 29/01/2020 - 21:33
    +2

    I suspect enforcement is largely ignored - until something goes wrong. Pootle along quietly not disturbing anyone and you’ll probably be ok. Start riding like a douchebag or crash into someone and then you likely cop what’s coming.

    However, somewhat like bicycle helmets, it could also give the police a reason to stop you if you are behaving yourself but look suspicious (eg fit some sort of profile they’ve had dramas with). There are plenty of cyclists cruising around without a brain bucket, but in certain lower socioeconomic areas you’ll get stopped for not wearing one and when you get all cranky they throw the book (and possibly other stuff) at Yu.

    • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 21:35

      Yeah I agree

    • GarrusVakarian on 29/01/2020 - 21:59

      throw the book (and possibly other stuff) at Yu.

      Yes, I'm Yu

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 22:38

    Are you sure a "mobility scooter" is a type or class of scooter not the definition of the word.

    • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:13

      The legislation seems to be quite vague with the term

      • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2020 - 23:40

        I hope you have deep pockets instead of paying the fine to try defend the conspiracy theory on wording.

  • Davo1111 on 29/01/2020 - 22:59
    +2

    What are people's thoughts on this?

    It's illegal, and if they decided to crack down you'll be treated as having an unregistered vehicle, and get completly screwed. Good luck with the "everybody else does it" defence.

    unregistered vehicle, driving on footpath, unlicensed, unapproved helmet, no insurance etc etc take your pick.

  • pegaxs on 29/01/2020 - 23:07
    +2

    I can see two big issues here.

    Firstly;

    A motorised wheelchair does not include a wheeled recreational device such as a motor scooter

    Secondly;

    Motorised wheelchairs are specially built to transport people who are unable to walk, or have difficulty walking.
    As a user you must: Have a reasonable need to use a wheelchair because of physical disability or limited mobility

    So, no. No loophole. Ride at your own risk.

    • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:11
      -1

      Motorised wheelchair is clear terminology, however do you think "Mobility scooters" can be confused with "recreational scooters"?

      From what I can see, Mobility scooters are clearly mentioned by NSW Transport as being permitted.

      Where is the line drawn between mobility and recreational? If they are used for transport they are more "mobility" than "recreational"?

      • Davo1111 on 29/01/2020 - 23:21

        are you physically disabled?

        • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:22
          -1

          Define disabled?

          Is there a clear distinction that is quantifiable?

          • Davo1111 on 29/01/2020 - 23:31
            +1

            @bigsteve1989: Yes, there is.

            Point is you're not disabled, so stop trying to justify your "need" for a mobility scooter.

            If you want to ride an electric scooter, then go for it. But you risk having the book thrown at you.

            • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:36
              -1

              @Davo1111: I sprained my angle a few years ago, and now I have a pain after running for a few hours.
              With this example in mind, do you think I can be classified as disabled?

              As you have said yourself, If I wanted to ride an eScooter I could illegally

              This is not want I am asking from this discussion, I am trying to better understand the law

      • pegaxs on 29/01/2020 - 23:27

        For a start, you are looking up old legislation, you really want to be looking up 2014, not 2008.

        It is actually interesting now that I have looked into it, as the specific rules and dictionary definitions does not actually outline “motorised scooters” in that or the “wheeled recreational device” definitions or under ARR:244A

        There does not seem to be any reference to “motorised recreational devices” anywhere…

        • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:28

          Yes, I have noticed this too,

          I am not sure why this is the case, however, it is written on their website

          • pegaxs on 29/01/2020 - 23:45
            +1

            @bigsteve1989: Website, schmebsite. It needs to be in the legislation for it to be acted upon.

            Part 14, Division 2 deals with "wheeled devices" that are not covered under ARR:15 What is a vehicle

            ARR:244A dealt with "Motorised scooters/device" but now just comes up as "not reproduced" (This is what ARR:244A looks like in SA)

            In the dictionary;

            motorised scooter
            Note.
            The definition of motorised scooter in the Australian Road Rules has not been reproduced in these Rules because the rules relating to motorised scooters in the Australian Road Rules have not been reproduced in these Rules.

            I thought it may have been under "Wheeled Recreational Device"…

            wheeled recreational device means a wheeled device, built to transport a person, propelled by human power or gravity, and ordinarily used for recreation or play, and—
            (a) includes rollerblades, rollerskates, a skateboard, scooter, unicycle or similar wheeled device, but
            (b) does not include a golf buggy, pram, stroller or trolley, a motor-assisted device (whether or not the motor is operating), or a bicycle, wheelchair or wheeled toy.

            It seems that any reference to "motorised scooter" has been removed from NSW legislation?

            • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:46

              @pegaxs: Thank you for that information.

              I will look into the legislation more closely tomorrow.

              • pegaxs on 29/01/2020 - 23:54

                @bigsteve1989: Yes, please do. I swear it was there until recently. It may have been removed in November last year, as that was the last time the NSW road rules were updated.

                As further reading, here is a list of all demerit traffic offences and there is section about "wheeled devices" and their applicable NSW Road Rule…

                Rule 240 (2)(c) - Use propelled wheeled recreational device on road - 1 Point - $76 fine

                • bigsteve1989 on 29/01/2020 - 23:56

                  @pegaxs: Yes, I see.

                  Going through it, I noticed a few other rules I was not aware of.

                  For example; a bell is legal requirement on a bike

                • bigsteve1989 on 30/01/2020 - 12:12

                  @pegaxs: I have just looked into this,

                  "not been reproduced" may mean to refer to the previous legislation for definition or rules?

                  • pegaxs on 30/01/2020 - 13:38

                    @bigsteve1989: I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t exactly know what it means.

                    The thing that I think is interesting is that there is no reference to motorised scooter in the NSW version of the legislation and any reference to them has been removed.

    • CleverCounter on 30/01/2020 - 08:26

      Agreed. No loophole.

      Send letters to your state members of parliament to change it. They are a great transport option.

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