PayPal Have Double Standards and Are Now Sending ARL after Me

AngryAlfred on 20/01/2020 - 11:56

I'm going to try and keep this as simple as possible.

I sold two Xbox keys on eBay, both for the same game and at the same price.

The first buyer opened a dispute through PayPal and before I'd even had the chance to respond with screenshots of our messages through eBay the case was closed in my favour as "we don't offer BUYER protection on digital goods."

A week later the same story, same item, same messages through eBay. This user doesn't go through PayPal and instead issues a chargeback on his card. I send screenshots of the eBay conversation with time stamps, along with a screenshot of a conversation with Microsoft giving me the date and time the code was redeemed - which was 3 minutes after the message on eBay saying he didn't purchase this item.

I saw what was coming and withdrew all funds from PayPal and put them into a bank account that isn't linked to them PayPal then put my account in the negative and called me multiple times over about a month requesting I pay them back, I refused. I tried repeatedly to question why one dispute went my way and the other went against me, the best they could tell me was that because it was a chargeback through the bank they are legally required to get the money from me. When I asked why I was sided against this time around it was because "we don't offer SELLER protection on digital goods."

To clarify, they definitely used both buyer and seller and it wasn't a blanket "we don't offer protection" statement.

I refused to pay them, they said it would be escalated because I am refusing to pay a "legitimate debt" and this was the "cost of doing business".

Today I received an email from a company called ARL which Google shows is where PayPal escalate things. I'm assuming ARL have bought the debt off PayPal so any resolution going forward with PayPal would most likely be pointless.

I'm more than happy to never use PayPal again, but I'd really like to get some input on the best step going forward now. Ignore ARL and hope it goes away? Would ignoring it have any affect on my credit score or anything else going forward? Has anybody had experience with something like this before?

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Comments

  • WT on 20/01/2020 - 12:19
    +9

    sorry it took you this long to figure out paypal amd ebay are POS companies

  • TheBargainator on 20/01/2020 - 12:20

    Those kind of companies can ruin your credit score. Though it may depend on the value. What amount are we talking?
    Personally, I'd just pay it and move on.

    • AngryAlfred on 20/01/2020 - 13:12

      In total it's about $145. The item mentioned above makes up about $65 of it, the rest eBay took from me because my AusPost receipt didn't have a tracking number on it and the guy says he never got it which I don't believe, you don't message somebody after two weeks with the whole message being "I didn't get this" and then start refund procedures. Time stamps on the receipt match when it was marked as sent but that's not good enough for eBay apparently.

      I've refused to pay anything on principle until this point and haven't used either service for months. I don't miss it.

      • brandogs on 21/01/2020 - 05:23

        eBay took from me because my AusPost receipt didn't have a tracking number on it

        There is your first mistake. Having sold 1000+ items in the past (many being digital) the only way us sellers will be favoured 100% of the time is if you provide a tracking number that shows as delivered. I have had buyers try and charge back in the past with fake addresses and everything. As soon as the case was made I immediately sent an empty express post envelope to a random house in the same suburb as the buyer. As soon as that tracking updated to delivered. The case was decided in my favour.

  • DemocracyManifest on 20/01/2020 - 12:22
    +1

    woah thats shit

  • Zylam Marex on 20/01/2020 - 12:25

    Yeah, sucks whats happening but when it comes to digital codes there is always a risk, for both sides.

    Like Old Mate said above me it's better to pay it and take the loss then let something like this ruin your record. You tried to get it fixed unfortunately if it didn't work in your favor there is little else that can be done.

  • tomsco on 20/01/2020 - 12:26

    Seems like a cop out from PayPal.

    Yes, if the transaction was fraudulent, I would understand you taking a hit (at they don't offer seller protection), but when the charge-back is clearly fraudulent they should contest it.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2020 - 12:31
    +13

    Contact the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA) and lodge a complaint, getting in touch with PayPal’s Executive Escalations team. I’ve been in the same situation multiple times, having no luck with PayPal Customer Service. I guarantee you they will make it right. They’re still a scum of a company though.

    In case you need it, PayPal’s Executive Escalations email is [email protected] - I also have a direct contact with someone there if you want it?

    Finally, even though this will NOT affect your credit file/rating, as PayPal does not lend credit, I’d still recommend getting it sorted out ASAP.

    • AngryAlfred on 20/01/2020 - 13:01
      +1

      Thank you, this is very helpful. I will try that email first and see how it goes before proceeding to AFCA. I really appreciate this comment thank you.

    • iniff on 20/01/2020 - 14:31

      this will NOT affect your credit file/rating, as PayPal does not lend credit

      ARL is a licensed debt collector, Paypal operates in Australia under a banking licence. I'd be careful assuming both parties can't/won't report this.

  • mbck on 20/01/2020 - 12:33

    Didnt you contact the financial ombudsman??

  • coxjon on 20/01/2020 - 12:35
    +8

    Tell PayPal that’s the cost of doing business

    • nfr on 20/01/2020 - 14:44

      Not sure why you got negged, I thought it amusingly turns Paypal's own words around.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/01/2020 - 12:40
    +4

    "Hope it goes away" is pretty much the worst advice ever for any scenario concerning a debt.

    • orangetrain on 20/01/2020 - 17:29

      If OP acknowledges the debt or pay some money towards it, wouldn't that legally becomes more debt evidence that OP owes it?

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/01/2020 - 19:54

        You don't think a million chumps have tried ignoring small debts before and hoping the 5-7 years passes? They have ways of getting your attention and making you contact them and/or pay up.

  • brendanm on 20/01/2020 - 12:55
    +1

    Contact financial services ombudsmen. PayPal will shit themselves and give you your money back.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 20/01/2020 - 13:00

    Bit of book cooking with your accounts hey

  • nedski on 20/01/2020 - 13:12
    +1

    the Financial Ombudsman is now the Australian Financial Complaints Authority.

    ARL as they now have the debt will possibly put a credit default on your credit file but can only do so if the debt is over $150.

    If its under $150, its up to you to decide whether to ignore them or not.

    Alternatively, you can take ARL to small claims to get a judgement that you dont owe a debt.

  • Diji1 on 20/01/2020 - 13:48

    Go to ombudsman or lawyer, no idea what the scumbags at PP are regulated by. The regulation is most likely a joke given how the banking sector controls Australia.

    A joke like the Commonwealth Bank laundering 700 million dollars for terrorists and drug dealers and nothing happening as far as punishment other than a cost of doing business fine. So funny. Isn't it great that the Commonwealth Bank was privatised. So that you get charged money for what you previously got for nothing.

    Having debt collected lowers your credit rating.

    • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 13:54

      Great for those that invested early.

  • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 13:52
    +4

    eBay and PayPal should ban members that don't follow their policy.

  • wannagrababargain on 20/01/2020 - 14:27
    +1

    Are there even any buyers left on eBay who are not intent on outright scamming private individuals? It's two for two in the OP case here with buyers gaming the system knowing they can get away with it and eBay/Paypal just lets it happen day after day. One wonders how Paypal keeps their merchant status with Visa if they are constantly hit with thousands of chargebacks.

  • EightImmortals on 20/01/2020 - 15:13
    +1

    You think ARL is bad? Wait till you meet his brother, Randy.

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