Unethical Agreements - No Classes during School Holiday yet "as Per Agreement" They Can Direct Debit

Kassa on 20/01/2020 - 11:46
Last edited 20/01/2020 - 11:47

I signed up for martial art classes for our son in November. and there is no contract, but we have to let them know 4 weeks in advance if we would like to cancel.

And they stopped their classes for holiday period, and was told it will resume on in January, so no service for 6 weeks, but every week, as "per agreement" they have been direct debiting $18.50 per week. when questioned they are so sarcastic, and showing me the agreement etc.. I am definitely going to cancel .

I think this is an unethical agreement. is there a body I can make a complain about this?

Financial

Comments

  • Striggen on 20/01/2020 - 11:51
    +4

    Surely you're paying per class? If not, find a better school.

    • Kassa on 20/01/2020 - 12:06

      its not paying per class,, its per week - does not matter you attend or not

  • GG57 on 20/01/2020 - 11:52
    +3

    There is no contract, but there is an agreement? And a Direct Debit authority, or is that the agreement?

    I'm surmising that someone didn't read the T&Cs.

    • Kassa on 20/01/2020 - 11:54
      +1

      Yes I haven't read the agreement… but is it fair for them to charge without any classes? for 6 weeks, from hundreds of parents… free money for them

      • GG57 on 20/01/2020 - 12:32
        +4

        I don't know, because I haven't seen the agreement.
        Perhaps you signed up for a period (e.g. 6 months, etc.), which includes specific breaks from sessions aligned with school holidays, and the payment for the period is spread across the period, of equal direct debit deductions.

      • Ughhh on 20/01/2020 - 12:35
        +5

        Yes I haven't read the agreemen

        Regardless whether you get your money back or not, take this as a lesson to read what you sign.

      • HighAndDry on 20/01/2020 - 14:02
        +1

        Think of it as a yearly (or 6 month) agreement that they let you pay by weekly installments.

        This happens with a lot of things too.

        • Kassa on 20/01/2020 - 14:38
          +1

          I would agree with this, if it is an yearly membership, so yearly fee would divided by 52. But in their agreement it says no contracts, its week to week.. and then goes they need 4 weeks notice for cancellation

          • HighAndDry on 20/01/2020 - 16:06
            +1

            @Kassa: Did you know about their holiday period shut down? Otherwise yeah that's not ethically great and may have legal issues too.

            • Kassa on 21/01/2020 - 09:04

              @HighAndDry: mid of December the trainer told us, no classes till 06th of Jan… I was like, thats fine, they wont charge, and even charge its only couple of payments.. and turned up to classes to find out it starts end of January, yet they are charging.. .
              agreement does not say anything about holiday period, or anything about there will be no classes…. This is about possibly hundreds of people who are just paying money to this company, (who do not pay trainers either)

  • profar on 20/01/2020 - 12:01

    My local council does the same with kids swimming classes .

    But they have an intensive everyday classes catch up when they open shop again :)

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 20/01/2020 - 12:27

      Ours do the same but it's only two weeks and we can still use the pool during the holidays when classes aren't on. So not that bad.

  • DemocracyManifest on 20/01/2020 - 12:28

    Most of these martial artists guys have their head right up their arse, absolute con artists who aren't even paying their staff as they have to 'earn their grade', you should cancel your card or even chargeback if they are letting it run and theres no service. There's probably no one you can complain to. I know this for a fact re they are con artists as one bloke was opening schools all over the place and the unpaid staff eventually got the shits and took legal action against him for unpaid wages. If they are doing dodgies with their taxes and likely so they won't challenge a chargeback

    • Kassa on 20/01/2020 - 12:34

      Yes the trainer does not get paid,,, they are volunteers..

      • DemocracyManifest on 20/01/2020 - 12:52
        +1

        There you go they are simply pocketing all the fees over the holiday period

      • Diji1 on 20/01/2020 - 13:53
        +5

        Here's a tip … go somewhere that pays their trainer.

      • godofpizza on 20/01/2020 - 13:56
        +1

        sounds like GSK karate, their trainers are all volunteers

        • DemocracyManifest on 21/01/2020 - 14:57

          The bloke who ran Kempo karate in Sydney ended up running a few schools, was always competing internationally and ran for the Libs in Liverpool it’s a good racket if you can get onto it, didn’t pay his workers either

  • Charlie Sierra on 20/01/2020 - 12:29
    +2

    To answer your question - call fair trading and get their determination on this. If I'm understanding correctly, they're billing you for a service but suspending that service for 6 weeks. Hard to say without any further details re the existing arrangement, but if that's the case, then I'd be asking questions. To echo other posters - Read the T's and C's.

    Looking at it in isolation, it sounds like you've already made your decision about leaving, and if they can't address your concerns without resorting to rudeness, then yeah, I'd make a similar call.

    Whatever happens, good luck.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2020 - 12:29
    +2

    Contractual agreement, you agreed, suck it up.

  • PVA on 20/01/2020 - 12:57
    +2

    maybe they do this instead of charging, say, $25 for the weeks its on and zero other times, so spread out its $18 per week as per agreement.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 20/01/2020 - 13:03
    -1

    You read the agreement. You understood the agreement. You signed the agreement. Now you want to whinge about something you had 100% control over.

    • Diji1 on 20/01/2020 - 13:57

      You read the agreement. You understood the agreement. You signed the agreement.

      Usually agreements are written so that no one understands them, other than lawyers who spend hours analysing them, because business controls Australia's "democracy". I'm surprised you haven't worked out this out yet. What you're proposing ignores reality.

      • jacross on 21/01/2020 - 09:17

        The legal fraternity in Australia is moving away from deliberately obtuse language and the old fashioned Latin terms as a means of making legal agreements and statutes etc more easily accessible.

        Interactions can be complicated and words can be complicated. Yes contracts can be used as a weapon but what you're complaining about isn't a function of a conspiracy. It's a function of you not studying the law and not being able to see the potential ramifications of what you desire.

        That's fine and rational. You don't have the vested interest to do so. When it comes up, fortunately there's a profession that can help with this.

  • Gronk on 20/01/2020 - 14:10
    +2

    So there were no classes from November through to mid-December? That sounds a bit odd…

    I've trained at a few different places over the years and they all continue to bill over the holiday period, although shutdown is usually 1 - 2 weeks tops, not 6.

    • Ramrunner on 21/01/2020 - 12:02

      ^- This

      My son and I do Karate and pay everything up front for a whole year, others pay monthly. Obviously the monthly cost is more than my yearly cost but in both cases we pay THROUGH the holiday break which indeed is usually only 1-2 weeks.

      • whooah1979 on 21/01/2020 - 12:06

        Collecting fees for 6 sessions x students without providing a service is dodgy.

  • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 14:12

    they are so sarcastic, and showing me the agreement etc..

    This deserves a name and shame.

    • GG57 on 20/01/2020 - 14:49
      +1

      Name and shame? Sure - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/316719

      There is no evidence that the service provider has breached any agreement.

      • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 15:54

        The business may have changed their customers fees but failed to provide a service.

        The customer in this case paid for 6 session that was not provided.

        • GG57 on 20/01/2020 - 16:02

          With respect, you don't know that (and I don't know that).
          We haven't seen what the agreements contained, to which OP agreed to.

          As others have said, it may have been an amortised payment arrangement over the period of the classes (with pre-arranged pauses in holding those classes).

          We only have OP's side of this story. We don't know the discussion that was held with the provider, which OP claims prompted a sarcastic response. OP may have been overly aggressive or rude or whatever. We don't know.

          Naming and shaming the business on here could very well be libel.

          • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 16:56
            +2

            @GG57: Name the business and let ozb investigate.

  • whooah1979 on 20/01/2020 - 16:00
    +1

    "Accepting payment without intending to supply" is a violation of the ACL.

    • GG57 on 20/01/2020 - 16:02
      +1

      Correct.
      But does it apply to this discussion? We don't know.

  • ozboygsl on 21/01/2020 - 07:40

    No club worth studying with would be acting like this.. 1 point, if they're charging $18 per week Id be curious as to what they actually teach. That's absurdly low. Can you name them?

  • OzHunterNSW on 21/01/2020 - 10:09

    Don't tell me this is Tri-Can't-Do….

    Tri-Can't-Do is not a martial art…. it is a sport

    Take your child to a proper martial art club like karate.
    Karate is a Martial Art (not a sport).

  • HeWhoKnows on 21/01/2020 - 14:49
    +1

    So OP knows the agreement:
    every week, as "per agreement" they have been direct debiting $18.50 per week.

    yes it sounds unethical but no more than gyms charging a membership fee every month whether you use the gym or not.
    and no more unethical that paying a fixed amount for electricity each week whether you are home or not so as to avoid paying a lump sum each quarter.

    Dear OP.
    It seems to me that the cost of the classes is averaged out over the year hence its NOT UNETHICAL.

    • whooah1979 on 21/01/2020 - 14:52
      +1

      24 hour gyms doesn’t close for six weeks at a time.

      • HeWhoKnows on 21/01/2020 - 14:53

        Read the rest of the post.
        Thats the most important part.

        • whooah1979 on 21/01/2020 - 14:55

          OP is on a week by week service. The service provider is charging for six weeks with no intention of providing the service.

          • GG57 on 21/01/2020 - 15:17

            @whooah1979: No, my read of it is that the provision of the classes, and the payment schedule, are separate.

            The classes are of weekly frequency, apart from some holiday periods.
            The payment schedule is $xx/week, regardless if the classes are attended, or if the classes are held.

            • whooah1979 on 21/01/2020 - 15:25

              @GG57: Your interpretation is different to mine.

              What we need is the name of the service provider so that we may investigate this further.

              • GG57 on 21/01/2020 - 15:40

                @whooah1979: No.
                If anything, we could all benefit from OP clarifying what the specific agreement / arrangements are, that were previously agreed to.

                Naming the provider is pointless.

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