Yes, I know the point is to protect against surges. But these things are pretty expensive and I've never had anything die from surges over multiple decades.
Are surges a real problem for some people? Is it geographical or something?
Surge Protected Power Boards - What's The Point?
paperpaper on 13/01/2020 - 23:24
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curious, are surge cause by thunder?
*lightning
Thunder is the sound :)
oh i see… lol thanks
Couldn’t you install some kind of surge protection in the switchboard instead of having a bunch of power boards?
If you're an electrician, sure, they exist. Never seen them used in a residential installation though.
I think your talking about a surge diverter
They are also overload protected to cut out at 10amp total power draw as well, this is part of protecting the circuit they are on etc.
All power boards do that.
nope, not all. some of the 2 and 3 outlet boards don't have any overload or protection. Also powerboards made for cruise ships have no overload/protection as well.
nope, not all. some of the 2 and 3 outlet boards don't have any overload or protection.
There are 2 and 3 outlet boards?
Also powerboards made for cruise ships
There are cruise-ship-specific power boards?
OK, all normal 4+ outlet power boards that you buy from Bunnings, Coles, Woolworths, Officeworks, etc (i.e. the type you immediately think of when you hear the word 'power board') have overload protection.
There are 2 and 3 outlet boards?
Yes and there are. They even make a 1 outlet power board too :)
https://www.ji.com.au/products/PT3USB3A/
There are cruise-ship-specific power boards?
Yep, Its a mostly a US thing, as we have a blanket ban in Australia on power boards on cruise ships.
https://www.amazon.com/Cruise-Power-Strip-USB-Outlets/dp/B07…
But in the states as long as it don't have any overload/protection devices, you can use it.
I would call that… an extension lead. ;)
more of a extension lead with a flat plug on the end!
But yes, I will give it to you, that 1 outlet board is a special beast.
Pretty sure lighting bypasses that, best bet is a surge diverter at switchboard
I had a kambrook power board way back in the nineties, saved all the stuff hooked into it from frying after lightning hit the block of units. The board blew the protecting link and started to smoke but didn't catch fire.
However the TV, stereo and other small stuff which were running at the time survived, just needing a new power board and a reset.
Other residents in the block lost equipment and one on the top floor had a minor fire. Fortunately it was a weekend and most residents were home
So for me they are an essential part of my electronic protection and yes when needed they def work
OP, when you say that surge protectors are really expensive, but I can get a Cyberpower 8-port 2750j power board for $25, it doesn't really add up. https://www.i-tech.com.au/8-port-surge-protector-with-2usb-p…
I have about $3k of computer gear on my desk, I think I can afford $20-$50 for security in protecting it.
I’m just looking at retail prices at Bunnings, certainly not an expert on power board prices lol
Yes, that Cyberpower device is really good value:
It's cheap, and it's very effective, with a high Surge Energy Rating of 2750 joules.
A lot of "surge protectors" only have a rating of 160 joules (and may cost a heck of lot more than $25).
But you need to shop around and look at the small print on the packaging, otherwise you might finish up paying $50 for a 160 joule device that offers very little protection, or getting stiffed with a bill for $200 for a 2000 joule device that is not as good as the $25 Cyberpower unit.
Came home about 6 months ago and the switchboard had been triggered. Everything turned back on except for the computer I'd built. I'm a graphic designer/crypto trader so my computer is my bread and butter so outlaying cash for replacement parts had to be done immediately. Luckily I had a high quality motherboard that took the hit and saved the rest of the components otherwise the cost would have really ballooned. Anyway, best believe everything is running through a surge protected power board now!
I am dubious about a power board protecting electronics from a direct lightning strike but Belkin's warranty looks clear cut -
"This surge protection strip comes with a Connected Equipment Warranty, which means we will repair or replace electronic equipment damaged by an electrical surge or lightning strike while properly connected to the strip, up to $30,000."
So they must think theirs will. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has made a claim after fried equipment. Maybe they are so good there has never been one. Maybe.
So they must think theirs will.
Or they've calculated the expected payout multiplied by the probability of payout is less than the profit they make by selling more expensive products ;)
It works out the same for the end consumer though, kind of like extra insurance - everyone pays a little extra so those who are affected get paid out.
Not necessarily
Maybe they make the "probability of payout" low by having an onerous claims process, such as:
submit proof that the evidence was connected to the power board during the surge event. e.g. video footage capturing a lightning flash (or voltage readings) and contemporaneous device failure and showing cable connections
Maybe the "expected payout" is low by having crazy depreciation schedules so your payout is insufficient to replace your TV.
Maybe the customer's hard drive has valuable data that they've foolishly not backed up and they would prefer a surge protector that actually worked instead of one with insurance.
The Belkin ones I looked at were only MOV based, which is not great protection and they wear out and you invariably don't check the 'protection active' light (that's if the detection circuit even works, it doesn't in cheap boards). For good protection against lightning you want a gas discharge arrester, which I'm sure they used to have in their pro series… maybe I'm just not reading the right info page.
and they would prefer a surge protector that actually worked
All good points but I'm pretty sure no surge protector can protect from a direct lightning strike - I remember reading that the voltages etc are just too high. If it can jump the gap from cloud to ground, it can certainly jump any gap inside your surge protector.
Courtesy of shaybisc below:
https://stormhighway.com/surge_protectors_ups_lightning_prot…
@HighAndDry: Given the voltage was sufficient to jump from a cloud to the ground (some hundreds of metres?), can explode trees, and that your surge protector is a small plastic box with parts worth no more than $5, yeah a direct lightning strike might still fry your TV. :)
A protector actually does give a pretty good chance of saving stuff, in my experience (I have had the misfortune of approximately direct strikes twice - seeing sparks leap from devices you are using is unsettling).
seeing sparks leap from devices you are using
Oh damn, that's something I wouldn't want to experience. Especially knowing that the sparks are from something that can seriously mess you up..
But yeah - I think we're basically agreeing. Surge protectors help, but no one should be relying on them for 100% protection.
For good protection against lightning you want a gas discharge arrester
GDTs are slow devices while MOVs are fast, so a good surge protector should have both MOVs and GDTs. Depending on the design, a surge protector with both will last longer than a surge protector with only MOVs, which degrade as they absorb transients.
Same. Never had or have heard anyone had electrical items damaged cos of a power surge.
Safety switches seem to do the job when something does go wrong
Might be worth noting that a surge protector and safety switch do different things.
A surge protector is meant to protect your equipment from voltage surges on the power line. A safety switch is meant to protect you from faulty devices that are leaking current.
Never has any surges in my home or known anyone to have one in my 33 years
I’m sorry I’ve offended people
For being lucky
Enough to never need a surge protected power board in my
Life.
Despite the name Surge Protector, the primary purpose of the device is a brownout protector.
citation please?
Most surge protectors use MOVs, which protect against transient overvoltage (spike/surge), not undervoltage (brownout).
My mistake. Poorly worded.
It should say - many people buy a surge protector when they actually want a brownout protector.
As for citation, it's merely a long term observation from AV and HiFi clubs. It was a good spread across Australia and the main problem wasn't overvoltage. Majority of the power related failures are from brownouts. Also, majority if users were not aware that a new surge protector isn't going to fix brownouts as with most people, they are not aware of the difference.
Ahh, brownouts being a bigger problem, that I can believe. Brownouts are harder to solve than surges.
Cheapest way is the cut-out devices I've seen in countries with unstable power grids. Otherwise it can get expensive quickly (UPS, power conditioner)…
What's needed to protect from brownouts is more expensive though - you'd need at least a small UPS to clean up the power delivery, right?
@HighAndDry: Not necessarily but a UPS is the simple go to solution that kills two birds with one stone. The problem with a UPS is the use by dates.
I don't know what it is commercially called but we use to make our own out of copper coil (about 5kg worth) and big capacitors. It's all hazy now but it cost $400 in mats, the schematics were free online and it worked. It doesn't hold much charge so it isn't a UPS but it made constant 230v at 50Hz.
I have a commercially made one now as my DiY unit was butt ugly.
it cost $400 in mats
Was this a long time ago? Because that would buy a very decent (consumer grade, not commercial I guess) UPS these days.
@HighAndDry: Wasn't a UPS. It was more a "filter". It does create some heat so I forgot to factor in all the heatsinks I bought later on.
Also not power efficient.
The upside is that the sine wave was super perfect and no need to replace the SLA cell every few years.
PS. Wanted perfect sine wave due to very sensitive gear.
I don't know what it is commercially called
Sounds like you're talking about a 'ferro resonant' regulator, aka constant voltage transformer, aka other names too. Have seen this type of thing occasionally in harsh electrical environments.
https://www.sunpower-uk.com/glossary/what-is-a-ferroresonant…
@abb: That's spot on. We had a club day where we spent the whole day building these bad boys.
I gotta say, they really do cost a small fortune in materials alone.
@[Deactivated]: You could offset the cost by cancelling your gym membership and just trying to pick it up a few times a day ;)
I don't think any surge protector will protect against a direct lightning strike, but they can help with indirect lightning strikes where the energy involved is much, much lower.
Nearby lightning strikes generate large electromagnetic fields that can induce a surge in power lines. The farther away you are the lower the induced voltage will be, so yes I think there's a geographical component.
Maybe I’m just lucky then :P
A lot of info on surge protection from this poster https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/253083#comment-3781272
Maybe you are lucky, ive seen surges take out computers and tvs several times, some have been saved by the surge protectors some have not.
its an extra layer of reductionist protection, its like insurance, just cause you never had to claim on it, doesnt mean you may not need it in the future.