There’s a car that’s been parked in the visitor spot of my building for 4 months. Hasn’t been used and is dusty as hell. Registration (from another state) expired back in September.
Is it possible to claim this car for myself given it’s abandoned, unregistered and unroadworthy? At worst, can I sell it to scrap metal if I take the plates off ?
Cool, you park your car, I can take it as mine. Because you leave it there. Thanks
@John678: You have your answer - Finders keepers as far as…..
So why the post?
Why ask for advice when you have made up your mind
Come back for advice if you get into issues after scrapping it.
@John678: What if he steals it, waits a few months for rego to expire, then takes it as his/her own?
@Danstar: Or what if the car was used in some sort of criminal activities and now you've become the legal owner of the car….
@John678: Report it to the Police OP, tell them you have an interest in acquiring it if the owner can't be find or doesn't want it. Otherwise it is illegal. See this quote from Legal Aid (an organisation you may need the services of very soon if you aren't careful!!):
Found Property
If you find goods or money, you should take it to your local police station.You’re not automatically entitled to keep any goods or money you find. If you don’t hand it in to the police you may be charged with a criminal offence. If you tell the police that you’ve found something of value, they may later return it to you if they can’t find the owner.
http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Find-legal-information/Neighb…
@MrFrugalSpend: I'm definitely going to take money I find in a suitcase behind some bushes to the police station. Yep. Absolutely.
Why is this being downvoted? The car is clearly abandoned.
If it was a washing machine, you wouldn't think twice about removing it and selling it for scrap. Why is a car any different in the circumstances where it's been left on common property and is unregistered?
Cause with a washing machine ownership is not clearly defined. With a vehicle it is. And very closely tracked
@k-rokfm: Actually registration doesn't technically prove ownership at law… it even says that on the rego paperwork in some states… however it's definately a strong guide the police may use to help track the owner etc
You still can't take the washing machine and sell it for scrap. For example in Victoria: https://brendanwilkinson.net/theft-by-finding/ , https://www.sbs.com.au/news/theft-by-finding-it-s-in-the-bag.
@itsme: I get theft by finding, absolutely. I don't think that applies in the case of an abandonment.
There is some assumptions that need to be made for classifying it as such, but I think that the fact that the car is 1) externally unmaintained, 2) out of rego and 3) parked on common property where it is not entitled to be, all add up to form the argument for abandonment.
Edit: Just to be clear, I understand that this is a legal grey area. But really, on the balance of probability, nobody is coming back for this car.
@picklewizard: It is in the visitor spot in his building, someone who lives there is probably saving up to fix it and has nowhere else to park it! It is not like it's dumped on the side of a remote highway, in bushland or a creek!!! Body corp should send around a notice asking who owns it. You certainly are not just entitled to take a car in a carpark on private property (even if common property of the building owners it is still a private carpark technically) if you think no one wants it in your own opinion alone … it is a little bit grey because it comes down to common law rules on possession (9/10ths of the law), but I'd still say a car in this circumstance, especially if locked up, is not up for grabs
Because both situations turn on reasonable presumptions. With a washing machine, it's small, able to be stored easily, and so if it's broken and left on common property, you can reasonably presume it's been discarded. As a counterpoint, if it was a brand new washing machine and left on common property, you wouldn't legally be able to claim it either because the same presumption of it being discarded wouldn't apply - it is just as likely to have been deliberately or accidentally left there.
With a car, there's no other easily storable place for it, and for all OP knows, it could well be fully mechanically roadworthy or close to it. So same with a brand new washing machine left on common property, you can't as reasonably presume that it's been discarded and therefore up for grabs.
This is the same concept that applies to why people can (more justifiably, technically it's a grey area) legally take items left outside on your lawn for council bulky garbage collection day, but not say, your garden gnomes on the same lawn.
This is the same concept that applies to why people can (more justifiably, technically it's a grey area) legally take items left outside on your lawn for council bulky garbage collection day, but not say, your garden gnomes on the same lawn.
Pretty sure legally you can't do that anymore. But people still do it / why most councils say leave the rubbish on your property not the nature strip
@Danstar: Yeah it's a technical legal point but the law hasn't really changed, councils are just being more conservative (in a err-on-the-side-of-caution sense, not politically) in their advice.
I'd never proactively tell anyone to take stuff from lawns/nature strips even if left out on council collection day, but if someone did, I wouldn't tell them they should be too worried either.
A washing machine doesn't belong out on the street, a car does.
HAHAHAHAAHh this is the funniest/dumbest thing I've read
It’s finders keepers as far as I’m concerned.
No it's not, but maybe it is permissible if you take "reasonable measures" to find the owner:
Larceny by finding is a criminal offence, which comes with harsh penalties if you are found guilty…
If you find valuable property or cash, you will need to prove that you took reasonable measures to find and return the property to its rightful owner in order to be sure that you won’t end up facing charges.
Source: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/finders-keeper…
Maybe the owner will be happy to let you have their abandoned car if you just ask them?
Technically the land on which it is parked is owned by the body corp of the building. if anyone has the right to claim that car it would them and even they would only have the right to notify the police or have it towed for violating the parking rules of the building.
BTW how do you know that the owner inst just really sick in a hospital for the last 6 months or hasn't gone on a long trip overseas/interstate. You have no way of knowing why that car was kept there. The owner might have decided not to sell the car for sentimental reasons for example, maybe it belonged to the owner's deceased relative and has now been passed on to them. You have no clear right to interfere with other people's property, especially a car that's been properly parked in a car-park. Dont get into trouble with the law over the few hundred bucks you'd get from a scrap yard. Its just not worth it.
But you don't have the key?
As a locksmith, no you can’t. Not legitimately anyway.
Supposedly if the car is unsecure enough, you can hot wire it to start and use that instead of a key?
@Zachary: And what do you do about the steering lock? That’s the part they don’t show you in the movies.
@pegaxs: lol is that the case?
man i have been misled for my whole life.
then in real life how do they do it? after hot wiring it to start?
@aboogee: You cannot even hot-wire most modern cars. You could even add an immobiliser to an bomb of an old car to prevent hot-wiring.
@aboogee: Usually with something like a slide hammer type tool or a screwdriver down the key barrel. Sometimes you can break off the steering lock by smashing at the wheel, or use a cold chisel to remove the security bolts holding the locks on some vehicles. (Some vehicles it's almost impossible as the lock mechanism is part of the steering column.)
The trick is "do your homework and practice". You will find that people who steal cars will target particular makes and models that they are familiar with and have practiced on.
There are much easier ways to start a car than "hot wiring". Most of the time, you can just pry off the switch mechanism and turn it. Would take less effort than ripping the wires and guessing what one does what.
I used to have a whole heap of plugs made up that went into the harness and had a switch on them. Unplug the current harness, plug in my switch, start the car. Of course, this doesn't work with never vehicles that have immobiliser chips in the keys/remote.
Anyway, onto OP's silly comment of; "I can easily get one made."
And while the action of making a new key for a car can be pretty easy if you are a locksmith, just getting a locksmith to make you that new key is where the issue is. I would want to see and take note of details. License, rego. papers, proof of ownership, anything to show that that person had the right to even get in the car, let alone before I even started looking at making a new key for it.
@pegaxs: Yup, this is basically how people tried to steal my old car (1995). Smashed the driver's door lock with one of those punch lock breakers (I assume), undid the plastic around the steering wheel, chiseled the steering wheel lock off (quite impressive, seemed like it took a few hits since it's one solid metal (cast iron?) piece), then tried to use a screwdriver at the end of the key barrel where all the ignition wires go. I had a dual stage immobolizer, thankfully, but I had turned off the alarm earlier in the week as I was working on the car (disconnecting battery sends it off). Crafty bastards.
@pegaxs: You just break it with force, not so difficult. Now the standard immobilizer/anti-theft is another story. ECU won't start the car till it reads the registered chip.
Depends how old it is. If it's new enough to have any sort of electronic immobilisation then you're correct. If it's just an old beater with a wafer tumbler ignition lock then it's not difficult.
No way
Haha
LOL!
No. If it was on the street, you could wait for it to be towed and then buy it at auction, but if it's on private property, you're SoL. It stays, you don't get to keep it.
which is still classified as private property by the owners corporation
@John678: "as much as anyone else's" means it's not yours is it?
That'd be like if I robbed the Aussie Treasury and because it held taxpayer money and I'm a taxpayer, the money's mine 'as much as anyone else's'.
Answer: If the body corporate is 100% certain that the car is in no way connected with anyone in the scheme, the pragmatic approach is to tow
Source: https://www.lookupstrata.com.au/qld-abandoned-car-on-your-pr…
Actually, residents there would probably be pissed, particuly if this is near a CBD, one less visitor parking space due to a dusty old car. I'm sure the body corp would be happy to get it towed away
Check with RTA/service nsw using the rego info. Hey, it could be stolen or something worse. Even selling it for scrap could be a risk, let alone driving it. Bikies.
Why would bikies leave it parked in an apartment complex gathering dust
And having it undriveable.
Because this is ozbargain. Everything comes back to bikies and eneloop batteries at some point
It will likely then be followed by a story about how OP decided to drive said car and getting involved in an accident as explained by an MS paint diagram
because there’s a body in the boot
but the camera is subpar
So he's this idiot…
how does that answer OP's question?
How does your contribution help OP?
how does any if but so?
why dig into old posts by him that are not relevant?
Why reply to my irrelevant comment?
its his schtick. at least JV's trolling is funny
Well I could've elaborated on my initial comment, but it's one of those 'read between the lines' comments.
Elaboration would be: "Oh you're that troll from the iPhone 11 Pro post" or similar.
Instead I leave it up the individual to determine that. Maybe my post should've been more elaborate to explain to those people who don't get just how much of a troll the OP is.
Sorry my comment was too simple for some people.
Though it's always amusing when people reply, yet have no suggestion or help at all for the OP. Replying to me has the same benefit to the OP as my comment did, yet I'm the monster?! Ah huh… how ironic
A mate of mine had a speedboat parked at his unit block. He reported to the police and when it went unclaimed for six months* *(not 100% sure on time frame) it was his.
Thanks. I might call the police, Walt three more months and then officially claim it. Otherwise I’m happy for a few hundred for scrap metal. Cash only.
Dont understand the negs toward OP
If OP follows the legal avenues and the original car owner obviously doesnt give a shit about an unrego abandoned car, then it's fair game.
OP is claiming it based on "finders keepers". That's not a legal avenue lol.
Abandoned cars get towed. Either by council or body corp. It doesn't get privately claimed.
People don't really understand the basis for any of the rules they live by. They just follow them, and when they see people who deviate from those rules it makes them afraid.
In this case, the rule is: whats yours is yours, and whats not yours is not yours. Don't take other peoples things, and they won't take your things.
Ridiculous when phrased that way, of course, but there it.
because he is making huge assumptions that a) there is such a thing as finders keepers b) that it is abandoned. Has he verified with all people in his complex that no one owns it? possible reasons for it sitting their could be anything from, owner died and estate still being processed, owner overseas or away, owner can't currently drive due to injury or illness so didn't bother to reregister yet or simply can't afford to pay rego and doesn't need it at the moment. Any of those if he takes the car it is THEFT.
dont you dare question the ozbargain hivemind!
@belongsinforums: don't you dare question the person questioning the ozbargain hivemind
actually, please do :D
They’ve cracked down on scrap metal for cash for this reason. At least in NSW you need a bank account for the payment and some form of ID.
The scrap metal places will often take it for free though.
you will need to provide the scrappy with proof of ownership, like the last rego papers so he can cover his own rearend
John. No. Just no.
Is OP drunk or ?
While the idea sounds neat, it's loaded with so many assumptions about why the car is left there that you may as well assume the same for any parked car. I parked my car on the street tonight and I'm now feeling a little nervous.
Yes, good point - the car could be rigged to explode as soon as someone opens the door or touches the door handle or even starts the car or move it from its parked position……. ooooooooh scary stuff….. Could be a terrorist act.
Could be a temptation that was put there, could also be more trouble than it's worth. Real owner (with a receipt) or last registration could just report it stolen and your up for court fines etc. Could be stolen already and you are the guy that ends up being caught with it.
Hey,
I recently sold a motorbike of mine to a friend as I haven't been using it.
It was unregistered (and had been for 2 years) and when we tried to transfer it, VicRoads told us to make a completely new registration on it under my friends name (which is a lot more than just renewing registration).
Surprisingly, they didn't ask for any of my details at all when my friend registered it with VicRoads and it is now under his name.
Not really surprising as registration does not indicate ownership. It used to even say that on your rego slip, not sure if it does anymore.
I have to say I'm surprised. I've always thought registering a vehicle under one's name means state-recognised ownership.
So what indicates ownership?
Bill of sale/receipt/etc.
@HighAndDry: Basically whoever paid for it. I guess it makes sense, but I doubt road authorities care about this lol.
@Bad Company: Road authorities don't, registration means you're agreeing to be responsible for the vehicle, even if you don't own it.
But you have to pay duty on the vehicle when you transfer the registration. Doesn't that imply it has legally changed hands - otherwise the state is collecting tax on a transaction which didn't [necessarily] occur.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/evidence-of-identit…
The police should be contacted if the abandoned or illegally parked vehicle is on private property.
Make sure to claim the dead body in the trunk too Op. When the police ask why you did it remember to tell them “FiNdErS kEePeRs”, that’ll work; you’ll end up with an even greater bargain 10-20 years rent free, meals included housing!
Probably not that bad, as with the Finders keepers attitude, he could claim mental disability, and be let off. (works even for murder)
But the Lawyers fees would be more than the scrap value of the car.
What if the poor owner has been in hospital?
They must know someone in the building, it would be a simple case of door knocking until their friend was found…
What if the poor owner has been in hospital?
Finders keepers, mate!!!!!11!!
I found a hospital and I'm keeping it.
And the railway station is mine.
Owner has likely gone overseas for an extended period and had no where else to park it…. if it gets stolen they can claim on insurance, or more likely he'll return with a mate late one night, jump start it and be gone forever.
Ummmmmmmm no? thats stealing?