Got Scammed and lost $1500 on Gumtree -_-"

LRNDM on 06/01/2020 - 22:09
Last edited 15/01/2020 - 11:35 by 1 other user

I thought I was being careful, but sadly not careful enough to account for the failures in lose implementation of JB Hifi's gift card policies.

  1. Had 3 x $500 gift cards from JB Hifi, from the promo in Dec last year
  2. Listed it here for a couple of weeks, no takers.
  3. So then I listed it on Gumtree.
  4. "James" contacts me, from ACT.
  5. Asks me "Do you have proof of balance picture? or receipts?"
  6. Not knowing any better, and assuming that a hidden "PIN" code is required to actually redeem these cards.
  7. I provided the card numbers, to allow him to check the balance on the cards.
    …
  8. James says he'll pay at the end of the day.
  9. I get messaged here on Ozbargain, snowymatthew, so I decide to allow them to pay instead.
  10. I receive payment, via PayId.
  11. I send copies of the unscratched cards, and then again with the card numbers and PIN codes revealed.
  12. Following day, snowymatthew tells me there's issues with the card.
  13. Since the PIN codes are all revealed now, I confirm the balance on the cards.
  14. Discover they've been redeemed in ACT.
  15. Blah blah … I'm %^&*
  16. Returned the money back to snowymatthew.

…

So, it looks like James has been able to convince someone at JB HiFi to redeem the cards, with the PIN codes, and without the physical cards. I checked the terms and conditions: https://www.jbhifi.com.au/pages/how-do-i-use-a-gift-card-to-…. "Redeeming in-store at JB Hi-Fi … The actual gift card MUST be presented.". From responses from various stores, staff are not "meant to" accept anything by the physical cards … there lies the issue.

The presence of the PIN code in this instance gives a false sense of security.

Even retracing all the steps taken, I don't think I could have foreseen this - other than "don't use Gumtree". So, I guess this is a warning to others, that the card numbers only are enough to redeem a gift card. Meaning there's no real way for a buyer to validate available credit, or for sellers to have any form of security over the gift cards. This to me, is easier than counterfeiting money and JB accepting it, at another customer's expense.

Expensive lesson, and usually careful with these things. But, aw well, not expecting such a positive outcome. If anything, it just ruined my day.

…

Since then;

  1. Left my details with the store to follow up
  2. Filed a report with ACSC
  3. Emailed JB Hifi, asking how and why cards can be redeemed by the card number only, without the physical card which is contrary to their terms.
  4. Contacted Gumtree seeking assistance.
  5. I asked James to pay, as agreed and I would cease the police report.

…

So yeah, great first day back at work. -_-" And now have to deal with the missus.

And not that it means much, but this is the lovely guy that benefited from this all. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-seller/1170622367193

I really didn't like the idea of having $1.5K in gift cards lying around, just didn't feel secure. And it really had to happen.

Update: So, it would seem kinda useless at this point. But because of the way that I shared the photo with James, it shows an account of his.

(Mod: removed personal information - please see commenting guideline)

Key updates:
* By RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 14:35
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8208345/redir
* By snowymatthew on 08/01/2020 - 16:47
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8213127/redir
* By RNDM on 14/01/2020 - 13:30
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8235494/redir
* By RNDM latest
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/8239312/redir

General Discussion

Related Stores

Gumtree
Gumtree
JB Hi-Fi
JB Hi-Fi

Comments

      • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2020 - 21:23

        They don't even want to investigate! They don't take it seriously, and most the time try palming even police reports to the other states if possible.

        My point is, it's serious crime. There are professional criminals who fly into countries and do this, fly out.

        Off course education is key, but if the fine/jail time was large enough people wouldn't do it. Better measures are needed, it shouldn't be so easy for criminals to do it

        :)

        • Ughhh on 07/01/2020 - 21:35

          but if the fine/jail time was large enough people wouldn't do it.

          Oh yes they would.

          Authorities can only help you so much, you need to do your part and protect yourself. If you choose to hand money over blindly, despite a decade worth of warnings about scams on gumtree etc… No amount of arrest, fine or police can save you.

          If I say I'll give you my ipad for $20 and you send me money, you're the one making it easy for me to scam you. Freedom can come at a cost.

      • chk on 07/01/2020 - 21:26

        I expect police to investigate crime, $1.5k isnt chump change plus the OP has uncovered that one gumtree account has traded quite significant sums of money already….

        • Ughhh on 07/01/2020 - 21:37

          gumtree account has traded quite significant sums of money already….

          That's speculation, not proof. Can be a lead, but not proof. Don't think cops will spends hours on speculation.

  • Strange1 on 07/01/2020 - 14:43

    Sorry to hear OP. I like to think of myself as being wise to these sorts of scams, but i would have done the same in your shoes (provide the numbers) with the mistaken belief that withholding the pin would be security enough

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 14:47
      +2

      Yah . Which is why I started this thread. If I were to do this all again, I still would’ve failed. There’s no way I would’ve known, even after to talking to jb hifi staff. They’d still tell me, you need the physical card. -_-

  • bert-lifts on 07/01/2020 - 14:44
    +2

    James' gumtree account is VERY suspect.
    Over a 4 month period he's sold loads of new, high valued items. Also conveniently happen to do be products in demand too. All sold at JB of course :)

    3 switches
    5 PS4's
    2 Galaxy s10's
    Xiaomi Mi 9T

    All new and unopened. You aren't the first person he's scammed obviously.

  • Gotchas on 07/01/2020 - 15:05
    -1

    How were these gift cards purchased?

    Credit card charge back could be a option since they have no balance.

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 15:09
      +1

      They came as a bonus for signing up 12 months with Telstra.

      So, don't think that would be possible, since there's no actual $500 dollar amount to charge back.

      • Gotchas on 07/01/2020 - 15:35
        -1

        Contact Telstra/jbhifi stating gift cards have zero balance and have them reissued

    • blehgg on 07/01/2020 - 15:11

      telstra bonus Gift cards

      so charge back = no

  • lainey13 on 07/01/2020 - 15:08

    Thanks for the PSA. Hard lesson to learn but good to know for the future. I saw the original thread where this went down, would be lot of effort for that Ozb member to be in on it too so I'm not inclined to believe they are guilty

  • fozzie on 07/01/2020 - 15:10

    So sorry for hearing this. It really sucks. Thanks for posting your experience, it will make more people wary

  • luffyex2010 on 07/01/2020 - 15:11
    -1

    My nose instincts is tracing back to snowy matthews who has the pins.

    One way to check is the ip address who the person has redeem the code but guess jb hifi only has that authorithy to do so.

    Only way to get evidence

    1) Time, place and date the code was use in store
    2) ip address ( only if its not masked)

    Doesnt matter if its gumtree or ozbargain, the person who has got the pin is the final suspect. Ozbargain might help you find the location ( just need the state) of the thief if its …snowy matthews.

    • WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 07/01/2020 - 15:15

      snowymatthew

      Member Since

      05/06/2009

      Last Seen

      Online Now

      Statistics

      6 posts / 144 comments

      Location

      Sydney

      Their account is from Sydney (NSW.)

      • luffyex2010 on 07/01/2020 - 15:17

        Lol there you go 😅

        Sydney…..ok we need Sherlock holmes

  • luffyex2010 on 07/01/2020 - 15:26

    Op, could you let us know since when James is a gumtree member if its 2020. 2019… Saw his account. Looks like an active seller of jb hifi gift card too.

    There is a possibility he could be involve if he is a hacker…Jb hifi code is 4 digits? 9999 tries?

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 15:32

      Since 1 card now comes up as "invalid", I was told, this occurs when theres too many failed PIN attempts.

      • pyramid on 07/01/2020 - 15:33
        +3

        If its invalid and too many failed PIN attempts, then money should be still there on card, isn't it?

        • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 15:34

          They've informed me that its also been claimed, in VIC.

          • luffyex2010 on 07/01/2020 - 15:37

            @RNDM: Woah syndicate

            JB HIFi gift card holders beware

          • pyramid on 07/01/2020 - 15:44
            +1

            @RNDM: I failed to understand - if card is blocked how can they claim it…

            • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 15:53

              @pyramid: I don't really know.

              Maybe it was claimed, and then got blocked after … I'm just guessing now.

              • pyramid on 07/01/2020 - 17:39
                -3

                @RNDM: Mate your are not making any sense ..

                • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 17:44

                  @pyramid: As I said, I really don’t know. Your guess is as good as mine at this point.

                  • drfuzzy on 07/01/2020 - 18:36
                    +3

                    @RNDM: Have you considered that it could have been fraudulenty redeemed by James and then rendered invalid after Snowymatthew unsuccessfully tried to redeem it with several attempts, locking the already empty card?

  • stirlo on 07/01/2020 - 15:44
    +1

    Did snowymatthew negotiate a discount off face value? If not that's a pretty big piece of evidence they were in on it.

    I might go buy a JB-Hifi gift card after work and get to the bottom of this redeemed without PIN issue once and for all.

    • PissLUR on 07/01/2020 - 15:54

      there seems to be different JB-HiFi gift cards. and you cant buy the ones that OP got scammed.

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 07/01/2020 - 15:44
    +2

    If JB Hi-fi confirms the card was indeed redeemed without a PIN number or physical card, you can report JB Hi-fi to ASIC: https://asic.gov.au/about-asic/contact-us/how-to-complain/re…

    Gift cards are considered a "non-cash payment facility", and if companies could simply claim cards were redeemed by persons unknown they would have a licence to print money.

    You'd be helping our dystopian future be achieved faster, but more auditable processes are inevitable as we go cashless anyway.

    • 9674784 on 07/01/2020 - 16:02

      What's to say the card simply wasn't used online as a click and collect?

      • peterpeterpumpkin on 07/01/2020 - 16:46

        Apparently they're meant to check ID? That could be another complaint if this requirement wasn't followed.

      • omgitzrick on 07/01/2020 - 18:13

        Still requires the pin.

      • Milk tea on 08/01/2020 - 21:51

        Yes, online there is no way you can enter the gift card without the pin regardless of click and collect or normal delivery option.

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 16:21
      +17

      I fully expect this to be a lost cause.

      But from what this experience has highlighted.

      1. Pin is meaningless.
      2. Physical card is not required
      3. JB HIFI policies are "enforced" by staff .. at their discretion.
      4. Barcodes can be generated from card number, and possibly miss used by staff
      5. JB staff have varying levels of knowledge
      6. Application system has pretty much no security controls, and relies on staff to enforce.
      7. JB won't help unless police get involved.
      8. Police generally wont get involved, and pass on to ACSC
      9. People can simply print their money, simply run into your local JB and copy the codes.
      10. This whole gift card this is #@&*ed
    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 16:23
      +9

      Until this becomes overly burdensome, I'll continue this story. So not the end just yet.

      • sleet on 07/01/2020 - 17:14
        +2

        This isn't 'end of story'. We need to find out who snowymatthew and james are. How the cards are redeemed without the pin. Why they were redeemed in different states. What does invalid card mean and the multiple pin attempts.

        It's $1,500. If you saw $1,500 sitting on the table, you're not going to say 'end of story'; you're going to look into it.

      • lechuck123 on 07/01/2020 - 17:50
        +3

        I'd be surprised if JB don't compensate you, especially with the negative publicity, really poor and inconsistent in-store security practices, and the expectation that absolutely you should require the PIN to redeem the cards.

        Ps. Do keep posting!

  • Heaps for Cheaps on 07/01/2020 - 16:18

    You know the whole PIN thing is odd. Just a few days ago I was watching a video of a lady trying to sell a pawn shop gift cards to various stores & the guy swiped the cards and the machine told him the value without the pin number having to be scratched off. I never knew you could do that.

  • Munki on 07/01/2020 - 16:44

    Nevermind. Sucks for you, OP.

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 07/01/2020 - 16:52
      +7

      I bought a seat off Gumtree to sit through this post. The seller read this post and sent me just the edge, saying it's all I'd need.

      Update: Why delete your comment? Now mine seems strange.

      • Munki on 07/01/2020 - 16:53

        Now that I've edited my post, it looks like you're talking absolute nonsense. :P

        I'm glad you got just the edge though. That bit has the best support.

        • Zachary on 07/01/2020 - 22:49
          +1

          How'd you edit your comment after someone replied to your post?

          • Munki on 08/01/2020 - 00:33

            @Zachary: Think I edited it just before they published theirs.

  • WoodYouLikeSomeCash on 07/01/2020 - 17:18
    +2

    As I am a share holder of the company I am hoping:

    1.) ID was taken at some point.
    2.) It would be impossible to redeem without a pin.

    • Milk tea on 08/01/2020 - 21:57

      I don't know, this sounds a bit dodgy where there was no pin and the scammer didn't have the physical card on him either yet the cashier accepted him just reading some numbers off his mobile and then accepting it…

  • Punda on 07/01/2020 - 18:09

    How much were you selling them for?

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 18:11

      $460 for each card. The listing is still available the classified section.

      • Punda on 07/01/2020 - 18:18

        Bugger! Sorry it happened, I hope you follow through with jb! I know I would be fuming at them.

  • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 18:10
    +1

    … the biggest impact this has made, is the amount of time that I usually spend looking through all the bargains on this website.

  • askbargain on 07/01/2020 - 18:32

    1. Selling all at once.

    2. Selling at high price.

    3. For some reason "feeling insecure" about leaving it lying around instead of selling.

    4. Proof of balance is stupid and you should just reject.

    5. Providing card numbers even without PIN.

    6. Not meeting up for sales on Gumtree.

  • Gelato on 07/01/2020 - 18:38
    +3

    I bought something off JB Hifi ($580 value) at town hall store (Sydney) during the Boxing Day sale paid by JB gift card. When checking out at counter, I was asked to provide my ID and they needed to photo copy it. I asked why, the response from cashier staff was that they needed to check ID if the item is $300 more and paying by gift card. I didn’t have my physical license but have a photo of it, and got asked to email that to the store email (which they’ll keep record of 3 months).

    Maybe you can ask the store where your gift cards were redeemed to see if they have a similar practice.

    Good luck!

  • nedski on 07/01/2020 - 18:41

    Dont bother lodging a complaint with ASIC or ACCC. They will not care and wont do anything on your behalf.

    Using my past career in consumer protection as a guide (if you can get the Police to do something, then good luck but fraud is a low priority for them), I think you would need to lodge a claim in your local state CAT.

    Whether it would get up? Who knows? But JB may settle as they dont want a precedent if you win.

  • drfuzzy on 07/01/2020 - 18:43

    I bought a $350 item from JB at Christmas time using a bunch of gift cards I had collected.
    At no stage did they ask for any ID or proof of ownership of the cards, except they did ask for my mobile phone number to send the receipt to (optional).
    I also don't recall anyone scratching off the PIN panel…

  • DiscoJango on 07/01/2020 - 18:49
    +1

    In theory then, i could take a photo of the gift cards at jbhifi, and then put it back on the shelf. Hang around the store long enough for someone to buy it, and then just walk up and redeem it using the photo on my phone.

    • omgilia on 07/01/2020 - 19:09

      Better yet just before a big shopping day such as Christmas/Boxing take photos of a bunch of cards knowing which ones are taken these will most likely will be given as gifts to love ones.

      YMMV but that way you know guarantee at least you won't be hanging around for too long.

      If simply generating a barcode using the card number is needed to pay for purchases then the gift card system is flawed.

  • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 18:58
    +1

    James has sold $‭4,060‬ worth of JB Hifi Gift cards … and probably at least +$5,000 worth of brand new electronics over the last year.

    (I know, I know, so many red flags).

    • smpantsonfire on 07/01/2020 - 19:26

      Op, were your cards in serial order?

      • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 19:28

        No.

    • stirlo on 07/01/2020 - 19:54
      +3

      Yep, and he’s based in Gungahlin. It would be relatively trivial for JB-Hi-Fi to track him down from these purchases. If I was you when you hear from head office I’d suggest he might be an insider at that store and encourage them to investigate further. Provide them the gumtree sales history as a head start.

  • Mrgreenz on 07/01/2020 - 19:55
    +2

    Gumtree = cash in person

    Sorry OP

    I think you shoukd persue though, seems someone is exploiting the system

  • profar on 07/01/2020 - 19:58

    So the only person you revealed the pin to was snowymatthew ?

    He is the prime suspect then as the scam can only work with his involvement .

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 20:00
      +1

      That's if the PIN means anything at all, which according to many comments so far isn't really the case.

      • profar on 07/01/2020 - 20:33
        -1

        Its more than just the pin the scam only works if he is refunded !

        • Dontdoit on 08/01/2020 - 17:01

          What if James and SnowyMatthew are the same person and this is part of the scam.

          Image from James

          Pins from snowymatthew

  • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 20:18

    For completeness sake, the response from Gumtree, pretty standard.

    Thanks for your email and for alerting us to this problem. I am really sorry to hear about your experience.

    We take matters like this very seriously and we will use the information that you have given us to see what can be done to try and prevent this from happening again in the future.

    At this stage, it is recommended that you report the matter also to authorities, including your local department of fair trading.

    Upon your report, please ask them to contact us directly via our helpdesk and our Trust and Safety Officer will then be able to discuss the matter with then directly and provide any information that we have, pertaining to this case.

    We always advise our users to be careful when dealing with prospective buyers or sellers. Gumtree should only be used to complete face to face local transactions. If you are buying or selling a product, the transaction should take place in person at a location decided upon by both parties. Cash should be exchanged only after the item has been inspected. Conducting transactions in person will help you avoid shipping charges, exchange rates, and most importantly, minimises the risk of scams.

    If you haven't seen it already you might want to take a look at our Safety Tips information under Help:
    https://help.gumtree.com.au/AU/articles/en_US/KB_Article/Sta…

    Once again, thank you for letting us know about this problem. I hope that your future experiences with Gumtree are much more positive.

    Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns.

  • profar on 07/01/2020 - 20:46
    -2

    The check gift card balance WS you cannot get a balance without a pin .
    Same when using them , no pin = no spend .
    I'd forget all the ill-informed people about inside JB job and card conspiracies I think very high % you have your man in my first post .

  • boku on 07/01/2020 - 21:08
    +1

    When I received my gift cards from the jb phone deals a few months ago, the person who issued me the gift cards actually told me the pin is not required to redeem the card.

  • chk on 07/01/2020 - 21:14
    -3

    lets see the outcome first but I suggest we start a collection for OP, posts like this save the rest of us from scams like this!

    OP can you create the collection … I'll happily contribute!

    • Heaps for Cheaps on 07/01/2020 - 21:20
      +1

      OK, im in for $10

    • Munki on 07/01/2020 - 21:29

      Yeah no. Common sense should've been the first point of defence.

      • chk on 07/01/2020 - 21:45

        read the thread bud, OP sent the card number, not the barcode, not the PIN.

        Common sense would tell me there's fail safes such as requiring a physical card and/or requiring a PIN to redeem

        • Munki on 08/01/2020 - 00:34
          -1

          I did read the thread, and common sense would've told me not to sell gift cards on Gumtree. Or if you must, do it in person with cash.

        • HighAndDry on 08/01/2020 - 09:03

          I wouldn't send the whole card number at all. Would you send someone your debit card number even though it needs a PIN?

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 21:38
      +2

      A collection is really unnecessary, I appreciate the gesture.

  • WT on 07/01/2020 - 21:20

    plot twist, op is online scammer looking how he can cover his tracks

    ;-)

    • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 21:41

      I could be!

      Even getting this far is kinda annoying already (I'm really lazy), but I also would see some sort of outcome, acknowledgment … something a little more than nothing actually being done, and letting the next person suffer.

  • CheapskateQueen on 07/01/2020 - 21:44

    I would definitely try fighting JB for the money, IF their terms say that you must present the physical card (haven't checked myself).They breached their own terms. Worth a try.

  • CalmLemons on 07/01/2020 - 21:57

    Just waiting to hear JB's response in regards to the PIN. Always need the PIN regardless, something does not make sense?

    • jorf on 08/01/2020 - 08:45

      JB does not require the PIN in store - I saw it myself a couple of weeks ago. They just scan the barcode, that's it.

    • Milk tea on 08/01/2020 - 22:00

      No PIN or the physical gift card hmmm

  • magikz on 07/01/2020 - 22:09

    You took steps to protect yourself and unfortunately this slipped through the cracks due to the system. I think JBHIFI is the one to blame here if they are going against their own terms for their card.

  • RNDM on 07/01/2020 - 22:17
    +4

    Vii responded to my email. Though they simply said, to provide the card numbers and they would forward the details on to JB Hifi head office. Done.

  • ladybug1 on 07/01/2020 - 22:22

    Good luck, OP, I'm really shocked that this could happen

  • Frayin on 07/01/2020 - 22:36
    +3

    Pretty worthless words from a stranger on the internet, but I truly hope you get your $1500 credit back from head office and they look into the store that is happily printing money for scammers.

  • jubified on 07/01/2020 - 22:46
    +2

    I just finished using my $500 gift card from the telstra deals and I can confirm like other posters that the gift card does not need the pin to be used in store. They've always swiped it at the terminal like a credit card and off I go.

    • cantstanzya on 07/01/2020 - 22:58

      I can also confirm this. Did the Telstra deal twice. Used both cards. No pin needed.

      Just like to add I think it's James from Gumtree due to his sales history being shady af.

  • cantstanzya on 07/01/2020 - 23:16
    +1

    Probably already been posted but thread is tldr

    The reason you need the pin to check the balance on the JB hi-fi gift card page is because the card number is all that's needed for a transaction.

    No pin means people skilled at this type of fraud can go to the website and take educated guesses for card numbers due to their somewhat non random nature. If they didn't have the pin protection then you could just guess away and correct guess = then fraudsters can easily just rewrite old jbhifi cards using magnetic strip writers which was probably how op cards were claimed to avoid suspicion.

    Plenty of info online about gift card hacking.

    Sorry for what happened to you op I hope JB give what they owe you as it sounds like you can prove that the cards were never presented in store which you have said to be a condition of sale.

    • jorf on 08/01/2020 - 08:49

      then fraudsters can easily just rewrite old jbhifi cards using magnetic strip writers which was probably how op cards were claimed to avoid suspicion

      Far more likely they just used a barcode generator and then presented it on their phone in store. No fancy equipment or skills required.

  • AbsX on 08/01/2020 - 00:26

    RIP

  • RtN on 08/01/2020 - 00:47
    +4

    Call Baudi Moovin and John Green.

  • Frozen Pizza on 08/01/2020 - 01:03

    I feel your loss, you try to do the right thing and people take advantage of you, very frustrating. Just a point to note, not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but recently I was in my local JB Hi-Fi in Vic and they had a sign up saying that you need to show ID if redeeming over X amount in gift cards (something like $800), have you tried finding out which store it was redeemed from because there is a possibility they took note of his ID. Even if they dont have ID surely they can find the time they were redeemed and look at the security footage to put a face to the person, or maybe he paid the remaining balance on the goods with a eftpos card and they can trace it(Might be a long shot but you'd be surprised at what crooks dont cover up, in my job people have signed up for members cards and given us all their details before stealing off us, yes thats correct; name, address, date of birth, phone number…)

    • SnoozeAndLose on 08/01/2020 - 06:55

      All of the above mention can trace the offender but would JB co-operate is another story.

      Long short why would JB go all the way to help OP?

      Even they find out the person phone number and other details would JB or police release it to OP is questionable due to privacy.

      It is really depend how much time OP value for $1350 to trace this down.

    • RNDM on 08/01/2020 - 07:24

      Thanks for your suggestions, I did reach out to the store where the card was redeemed. Sadly, and I can fully understand, there are privacy issues in releasing personal information and CCTV footage. All of this requires a request by police, or specifically the ACSC in this situation. I've tried, and whether JB Hifi would like to assist, or have any interest at all looking into it (even internally for their own interests), it's in their court now.

      • HighAndDry on 08/01/2020 - 09:07

        Even if they can't release the info to you, they can still access the footage/etc to investigate for themselves if provided with all your info. But yeah, can't do much else but wait and maybe follow up for updates, like we're doing with you haha.

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