18650 Battery Chargers

Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 15:14

Hi,
Do better quality battery chargers enable you to get more cycles out of your batteries? I am a vaper, so I am charging 18650s. I just have a super basic charger at the moment.

I know modern batteries cope better if you keep the charge between 30% and 85%, not sure how much of a difference this makes though. Does anyone know how much difference this makes? If it makes a significant difference can anyone suggest a charger for 18650s that lets you stop charging before the batteries reach 100%?

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • pantsparty on 03/01/2020 - 15:26
    +19

    In the true spirit of Ozbargain may I suggest not smoking at all? That will be the greatest bargain now and in the future.

    • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 15:48
      +2

      InB4: It'S NoT sMoKiNg! iT's VaPiNg!!11!!!1!!

      • brendanm on 03/01/2020 - 16:18
        +5

        A always laugh when I see vapers, looks like they are giving a robot a bj.

        • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:11
          +4

          I don't think you know what a good BJ is like if you think you just touch the tip to your lips for a few sec then stop…

        • Miami Mall Alien on 06/01/2020 - 02:09

          I just want to applaud you both for going down this hilarious tangent about a hypothetical BJ. Truly Seinfeld-esque dialogue right here.

      • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:04
        +3

        They are indeed totally different. It is an important distinction because the harmful chemicals are the result of combustion.

        • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 17:25

          No, it’s like swapping from a petrol or diesel car to an all electric and saying “it’s not driving, it’s different because we are not “burning” fuel…”

          • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:31

            @pegaxs: Rubbish. Not sure why you don't understand, I'll use smaller words. Smoking is burning, vaping is not burning anything.

            • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 20:41
              -1

              @Redbeard: Rubbish. Not sure why you don't understand, I'll use smaller words. Driving is burning, *fancy_replacement_name* is not burning anything.

              (I don't know what the "fancy replacement name" for guiding an electric car around via a steering wheel and foot controls is called. Always thought it was just called.. you know… "driving".)

              • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 20:52

                @pegaxs: Clearly there is a fundamental difference between burning something and not burning something. The harm in tobacco smoking is caused by the results of burning. Maybe in your imagination the nicotine is what harms your health?

                Your ridiculous analogy about driving didn't make sense to start with, but you have stretched it in to complete nonsense.

                I am genuinely interested in why you don't see a difference between vaping and smoking. Why is burning a processed plant leaf and inhaling the smoke exactly the same as inhaling a vapour of one compounds found in that smoke?

                • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 21:06
                  -1

                  @Redbeard: The analogy is correct. Just because I change one form of combustion for another doesn't change the fact that I am still "driving".

                  It's the same typical bullcrap mantra trotted out every time some "vaper" justifies why it's so altruistic and how they are saving lives.

                  It's "smoking". It is a direct replacement for "smoking". It has the same actions as "smoking". It is for the same reason as "smoking". It uses a device that mimics "smoking". It delivers the same additive nicotine element as "smoking". It's as offensive as "smoking".

                  The only difference between smoking and vaping is that smokers just smoke, vapers like to tell everyone, grow man buns, go to "vape competitions" then get all defensive when people call it smoking and go on to regurgitate stuff that non-vapers don't really give two shits about…

                  It's just smoking… "re-branded".

                  (and for the record, I have had nothing to say about what health affects is has, nor have I engaged in the rights or wrongs, pros or cons. I'm just saying, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, chances are… It's just a "duck".)

                  • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 21:13
                    +1

                    @pegaxs: The difference is there is no combustion in a vape. You do not "change one form of combustion for another" - you remove combustion from the equation completely. Not everything that looks like smoke is smoke. The steam coming off a hot drink kinda looks like smoke, that doesn't mean the drink is on fire.

                    You should have just said earlier that you thought combustion occurred in a vape. It does not.

                    • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 21:33
                      -3

                      @Redbeard: "Quack"

                      Not a lot of combustion in an electric car either. But that is my error for not being clear enough (I actually thought you were following.)

                      "Just because I go from "combusting" fossil fuels for power delivery to using a cleaner, electric alternative, doesn't make it not driving."

                      Using the word "vape" in place of "smoking" is BS marketing at best.

                      Reminds me of that Rick and Morty episode…

                      "Vaping… That just sounds like smoking… but with extra steps…"

                      "Quack"

                      It'S NoT sMoKiNg! iT's VaPiNg!!11!!!1!!

                      You've kinda proved my point.

                      • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 21:42

                        @pegaxs: I haven't proved your point, and neither have you. Inhaling smoke is bad for you, there is no smoke involved in vaping because nothing burns - that is the fundamental difference.

                        For the record I have never been to a vape competition, had a man bun, or tried to convert someone to vaping that hasn't expressed an interest in it - if I go out and see a smoker I figure if they are curious they'll ask me. I get defensive when people make factually incorrect statements along the lines of vaping is the same as smoking.

                        • ozbjunkie on 04/01/2020 - 23:08
                          +1

                          @Redbeard: This guy pegaxs is either trolling or an absolute moron. You can't argue with that level of willful ignorance man. Why try?

                          • Redbeard on 05/01/2020 - 16:07

                            @ozbjunkie: Yeah, I am reluctant to assume people are absolute cretins, so I keep trying long past people have proven how stupid they are sometimes.

                            • ozbjunkie on 05/01/2020 - 18:16

                              @Redbeard: In that case I would have utilised his analogy of the electric vs petrol vehicle and said vaping is like putting your mouth over the exhaust of the electric vehicle, and smoking is like sucking in the exhaust of the petrol vehicle.

                      • Redbeard on 05/01/2020 - 16:06

                        @pegaxs: Your analogy is irrelevant because an internal combustion engine is not part of the definition of driving. Driving is guiding a vehicle with an external source of power - you can drive a horse and carriage, or a dog sled team. Smoke is part of the definition of smoking - if there is no smoke you are not smoking (pretty obvious right?). Maybe you don't understand the difference between vapour and smoke? Smoke comes from burning something, vapour comes from heating something but not to the point it burns basically.

                        I didn't address the irrelevance of your analogy earlier because anyone of average intelligence who thought about it for a split second would see why your analogy was irrelevant. I assumed you were of at least average intelligence, so I assumed you would work it out by yourself. Since you have amply shown my assumption was incorrect I thought you may benefit from an explanation.

                  • mattyman on 04/01/2020 - 14:23

                    @pegaxs: I think in this case it's a goose, though.

        • Speckled Jim on 04/01/2020 - 11:19
          +2

          You can go to a chemist…

          You can buy a nebuliser…

          You can use it to inhale vapor that carries medication.

          Same as a vape mod. But bigger. More expensive. Less portable.

        • mattyman on 04/01/2020 - 14:29
          +2

          I'd rather be stuck in a room with a caper than a smoker.
          My grandpa passed away recently from kidney/bladder cancer that was related to smoking, except he never smoked at all throughout his life. He just worked with people who did.

          Personally I don't smoke or vape. Current research does indicate that vaping is far safer, although we really don't know what long term affects vaping might cause. Given this it's best to do neither, but if you are going to do one of them, vape.

    • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:00
      +6

      You may suggest whatever you want. As already pointed out, vaping is not smoking. Vaping is proven to be 95% safer than smoking and I have no intention to stop. There have been 4 reasonbly large studies that have concluded this. Don't believe everything you see on the news.

      https://athra.org.au/blog/2019/12/23/vaping-is-95-safer-than…

      • pantsparty on 03/01/2020 - 17:50
        -1

        The studies may be right, who knows. I just see news articles like this and think that spending money on something which has no real benefits and may kill me is a waste of money. But I do appreciate that you have an addiction and it’s not as easy as just stopping to save money.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-07/vaping-e-cigarette-de…

        • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:57
          +4

          The cause of those injuries was determined - there was 1 brand of cannabis vape juice they added vitamin E Acetate to and that was causing the problem (citation: https://athra.org.au/blog/2019/11/09/an-update-on-the-vaping… ). There is absolutely no reason to think vaping "might be killing me" any more than anything else I do.

          No real benefit apart from enjoying the nicotine. Nicotine is a safe drug, and vaping is a safe delivery system to consume that drug.

          • pantsparty on 03/01/2020 - 18:02
            -1

            @Redbeard: You clearly really really want to smoke and I know when to give up. Good luck with what is very likely to still be a death stick! If you really want to save money then just stop smoking! :)

            • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 18:06
              +1

              @pantsparty: No, as very clearly stated I do NOT want to smoke. Do you have any evidence at all to support your position that vaping is "very likely to still be a death stick!"? If so, please present it. If not I will take the evidence of 4 large scale studies published in medical journals over a random person.

            • ozbjunkie on 05/01/2020 - 18:19
              +1

              @pantsparty: Is it your intention to be sanctimonious and unpleasant or do you think this is part of your personality and attitude that seeps through in absence of your awareness?

              • pantsparty on 05/01/2020 - 18:47

                @ozbjunkie: You smoke vapes too don’t you? Lol

                • ozbjunkie on 06/01/2020 - 04:55
                  -1

                  @pantsparty: And you wilfully misuse words. I know which I consider to be the greater transgression.

                  And before you come up with some unconvincing defence of your use of the word smokes…

                  You don't smoke a nebuliser
                  You don't smoke happy gas at the dentist
                  You don't smoke the air after burning your mouth

                  Inhaling smoke (wilfully) is called smoking
                  Inhaling vapour is called vaping
                  Inhaling air is called breathing
                  Quickly inhaling air is called gasping

                  Being precise with words is important to adult communication.

                  This lesson is free.

        • ozbjunkie on 05/01/2020 - 18:17

          Actually nicotine has a range of benefits.

          That's not why I vape. And not why I used to smoke.

          It's just another way you seen uninformed.

        • Speckled Jim on 06/01/2020 - 09:52

          I spend around 95% LESS on vaping (liquid, coils, batteries etc) to get my nicotine AND there's no 70% Govt excise.
          I miss out on the THOUSANDS of harmful chemical compounds from cigarettes AND getting gouged — I suspect you anti-vapers are pro-stupidity taxes and that's your gripe. Just to rub it in, I don't gamble or drink either :D

          Every which-way, I'm laughing!

  • pinchies on 03/01/2020 - 15:47

    If you can specify the model of the super basic charger, that might give us something to go on.

    • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:09
      -2

      Efest Slim K2 charger. No idea how that is relevant to the questions "Can a good battery charger get more cycles out of the same battery than a bad one?" and "Do battery chargers exist that stop charging before the batteries reach 100%?" but there you go.

      • pinchies on 03/01/2020 - 18:19
        +5

        I ask, because I don't know what your idea of a "good" or "bad" charger is. My idea of a bad charger is a raw 4.2V 500ma regulated output - which is basically what the K2 is, with some basic safeguards added.

        What will the long term consequences be? I don't have quantitative numbers, but my understanding of the general consensus is that
        (1) charging too fast harms the cell - most smartphones fast charge up to 70-80%, and then slow charge from that point onwards
        (2) over charging is very bad for cells - most chargers now (e.g. Nitecore) will switch off charging once 100% has been reached and held for a period of time.
        (3) it is not good for the cell to even sit idle around at 100% - most lipos are stored at around 50-80% charge, not fully charged. Recent iphone updates delay the final 80->100% charge step to later in the night, in order to reduce the time the phone is just sitting around on charge at 100%.

        I have not yet seen any reasonably priced charger have intelligent capabilities like that. Most chargers need to charge a range of battery sizes/capacities, so a one-size-fits-all charging program might be harder to do.

        I think you can do a bit to prolong the life of lipos by charging them at a slower rate if your charger has CC adjustment. Perhaps 0.5C? Also, to avoid long term storage of spare batteries at 100%.

        • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 18:41

          Oh, thanks. Sounds like I have a bit to learn about chargers. CC = constant current? I noticed the side of the charger says 5V [symbols] 2000mA - does that mean it is charging at 5V? That would be bad for the batteries from what I have read.

          • pinchies on 03/01/2020 - 18:50
            +3

            @Redbeard: Yep, sorry, CC = constant current, CV = constant voltage. Most chargers do CC up to 4.2V, and then CV charging at 4.2V till the current drops below 100ma or so, then they stop charging. The charger is probably labelled with the power supply that the charger wants for its supply - 5V 2A sounds about right if its designed to operate from a high-current USB socket. The max output will definitely be 4.2V for lithium batteries - the K2 is labelled as having a "Auto Cut-Off Voltage: 4.20 (+/-0.05V)".

            FWIW, I don't see anything immediately wrong with the K2 for normal use.

            • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 19:13

              @pinchies: Thanks! Yes, it is running off USB. It occurred to me after I posted that it was likely to be the input voltage. If I can get a charger that does lower CC and/or an option to stop charging at <100% for a reasonable price I will snap it up.

              • pinchies on 03/01/2020 - 19:21
                +1

                @Redbeard: The other things you can do to get a higher cell life is buy a higher peak current battery - they will hold less total capacity, but the internal construction is "more rugged" (thicker layers, etc) to withstand higher charge / drain rates. It's only a guess, but I imagine that might help make it last longer too.

                Regarding a new charger….
                If a cell only costs $5 or so, and lasts a full year with this charger, and lasts two years (exaggerating, hypothetical) with a gentle charger, then that's really only saving you 1.3 cents per day… it's hard to payoff the cost of a new charger at that rate!

                If you have some electronics know-how, you could adjust the reference resistor on the voltage regulator, in order to cause the charging to stop at an earlier point. Without seeing the actual circuit, it's a little hard to know how feasible that idea is though for the K2.

  • websterp on 03/01/2020 - 15:59

    Deals for Liitokaka chargers appear on OZBargain quite often. Pretty much all Liitokala chargers with spring adjustable terminals can charge 18650s.

  • D C on 03/01/2020 - 16:19

    A pink one from vaping-is-gay.com obviously.

    • pegaxs on 03/01/2020 - 16:24
      -1

      How do you know someone is a "vaper"??? Don't worry, they'll tell you…

      • MrBear on 05/01/2020 - 10:30

        do vegan vapers exist?

  • Speckled Jim on 03/01/2020 - 16:59

    Golisi S4/Samsung 30Q. Around 200 cycles in a year. Still charging to 2400-2550 mAh.

    The Golisi S4 was just over $30 on Aliexpress last year. Locals sell them as low as $40, typically around $60. Features: Clear, bright LCD screen, auto-detection and AC+DC inputs.
    My second choice was the Liitokala Engineer Lii-500 — proven quality if it's genuine.

    • Redbeard on 03/01/2020 - 17:35

      Thanks for that info, but do you have any info about whether or not one of those chargers will get more charge cycles out of a given battery?

      • Speckled Jim on 03/01/2020 - 20:12

        Sorry, no. That would take much testing, and none of it would be conclusive. The best you'd get is trends, and that's IF they're stamped with the same batch number. Throw in the mess of fake cells, and it's one big headache.

        Rather than stress about outright cycles, I aim for performance/runtime. Locally purchased genuine cells during an eBay 20% off were cheap enough to warrant it.

  • OzHunterNSW on 04/01/2020 - 09:59
    +1

    Fear not, the batteries will outlast you.
    P.S. You are certainly an idiot.

  • H E B on 04/01/2020 - 12:13
    +1

    +1 for liitokala chargers you see come up often will help but ultimately cheap batteries are cheap batteries so if you invest in decent ones make sure you get a decent charger!

  • ozbjunkie on 04/01/2020 - 23:10
    +1

    Probably better to ask on ecig forum. Lots of electrical engineer type folks there have tested batteries, chargers etc.

  • Dsp on 15/01/2020 - 19:32

    I also vape and use these https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/510086
    first one lasted 2 years every now and then buy another when posted have 2 more new back up

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