I earn 55K a year currently working in customer services. Have Masters in Business Administration. Already have 2 year experience now in a Big Health insurance organization. Not sure how to increase my income. It seems to increase like a snail. Need advise people. The only draw back i see is that I ve been in Australia for 6 years now and only local experience matters. Open to all advises. Think about business but not sure or any skill. HELP
How Do I Increase My Income ! Help Needed
Lzhk89 on 05/12/2019 - 17:22
Comments
What is "customer services*? 55k with a masters, wow.
Its nothing to do with masters. Its simple call centre job with 55K. Thats why looking for advises
Work on your English. Get a better job, preferably that has something to do with your degree.
@zhk89: Ok, your English is far from perfect. If I were hiring someone for business admin, and had the choice of (a lot of) applicants, I would pick someone who has excellent written English over someone who doesn't. Looks very unprofessional receiving emails in broken English.
@zhk89: It's not the order, its simply that your written English isn't great. Not trying to be mean, but in a field with a lot of competition, you will have to work on that if you want to get a different job. If you were in a field with very few candidates it wouldn't matter as much.
@zhk89: I hear the "careless" excuse all the time. Even if you are being careless, the sentence structure is not great.
P. S. I am also being careless.
@zhk89: Being careless and using the wrong words are two different things, especially when you continue to pedantically use the wrong word.
Google advice and advise. This is where your lack of understanding shows the most. If you look at "advises" it seems to be ok to use, but it is NOT the right word. The right word is advice.
And even after you're told about it, you still keep right on doing it. Therein falls the glaringly obvious attitude problem filled with copious and unattractive denial of fault.
I had a partner in the past that was like this. They were a narcissist. They worked in Corrections where they could always be right and no one could say anything back to them. I've personally really enjoyed your answers in here. You sound just like her.
You want a proper English test? Try taking a translator exam. They will even tell you exactly why you failed.
@zhk89: My friend, you should just look at how much up vote Brendan gets and how much down vote you get, and accept that your communication is shit.
You are asking for help, and you got one, just not what you want to hear, but help is help.
@skidexa: Get thicker skin. No one is mocking op.
Unless op is sending emails via voice recorder, it will greatly impact their job prospects. I would also happily bet $100 that they don't sound fine verbally.
@skidexa: I actually did not know what he meant. Actually thought he may have meant retail. Depending on industry, his language may not be a problem.
Also, look up the definition of hypocritical.
@snook: Wow, a phone typo. Yes that surely is an issue with my grasp of the English language, and not a slip of the finger with a and a next to each other. Should take the n out of your username.
If you are going to make that pathetic attempt, you could at least use a capital letter at the start of your sentence, and a full stop also wouldn't go astray. If we are being really pedantic, your statement should have been "That's what you did incorrectly".
@brendanm: man, you get the sook and lack of comprehension award here. I was talking about skidexa talking to you. Was nothing to do with you. I was backing you up.
I'm a lazy typer and i don't care. Lazy lazy lazy.
@snook: There was no comprehension to get, it seemed like another person whining about a typo. My apologies for having a go at you.
@brendanm: the comprehension was that you never made a typo. He was having a go and he made a typo that i then made a joke about to you and then like the whole world (7 people) took it seriously.
Is ok. I think it's funny. Words on a page.
@skidexa: Written English is just as important (if not more so) than spoken, at least in an office workplace context
Also we don't know how op sounds like when talking.
Neither will the recipients of OP's cover letter. They'll only have the written English to go by. When you've got 300+ applications and just need to hire someone quickly, broken English emails will be ignored.
That's fine, but your original comment made it sound like you were mocking op which is trying to be mean.
No it didn't. OP came here asking for advice. Why would we lie to OP and say "Yeah strange, I wonder why you're not more successful" politely, rather than actually provide constructive feedback?
@zhk89: You've asked for advices and you don't appear to be listening to those advices. even when the advices are underlined in red.
Unless you are working 80+ hours a week, you do have time to look for a better job.
PS: what is your degree?
@[Deactivated]: is that a degree? I cant find anything online about it unless you mean this preparation course for an IELTS exam?
https://ieltsonline.com.au/ielts-master
@brendanm: you don't need perfect english for a call center job. Most Indians working this are hard to understand, and some filipinos also. It's refreshing that his job wasn't sent offshore.
English is perfect and that is the reason I am working in a call centre where I speak to hundreds of members all across Australia. Not sure how to go for a better job. Also the current job does not
give any timerestricts my available time to look for any other options@[Deactivated]: Also standing out like a sore thumb is the oxymoron: perfect and the stuff that followed it.
@zhk89: English is perfect?
Thats why looking for advises
Must be a different English to what I know…
@zhk89: Normally I'm sympathetic to migrants that struggle with English, but with your attitude you deserve to be laughed at
@AbsX: I agree with you. OP's English skills are pretty bad, and they have a terrible arrogant attitude to boot. Can't tell why they can't get a better job…
@AbsX: Cos the money mill of an ESL class just passed him without considering merit and told him his English is so good that angels cry when they hear his sweet sweet Engrish.
@zhk89: English isn't my first language either but I wouldn't call yours perfect. You don't need "perfect" English to talk to someone but if your written language isn't great, you're going to have a bad time.
@shazzadabazza: See, this is what good written English from someone who doesn't have English as a first language would look like.
Learn from this example, OP
You are using the word "advises" incorrectly. Substitute "advice" into your sentence and it will be correct.
“Me fail English? That’s unpossible!”
Hey mate, you're getting trashed a bit here over your written English but you don't seem willing to accept the feedback. It's not serious, just lacking some of the detail/grammar which makes it fairly obvious it's a second language. Personally I never short list a CV that has errors of any kind, big or small.
My advice: try something like "Rev". You earn a few extra dollars transcribing videos, not life changing, but at the same time you'd be working on your writing skills to a very high level (they're pretty strict on grammar).
To be clear I really envy your English skills given its a second language. I wish I had the patience to learn a second language.
Good luck.
Edit: I reckon only 10-20 hours on Rev would make a really big difference.
If written communication in English is an important part of the roles you want, invest in improving that.
Otherwise like every career post on a forum; network, meet people etc etc
and writing
No… it's very obvious it's a second language
It is readily apparent to anyone with above average command of the language that your English is heavily flawed.
You have been given excellent advice - improve - to which you are adamant you have no need to.
The reason why you're stuck on a $55k job isn't your degree, the company you work for or even your English.
It is your attitude.
@zhk89: I can tell you that English is a concern. No one would ever give that as a reason in an interview due to discrimination worries. It's up to you at the end of the day, take the advice and get somewhere, or stick your head in the sand, and stay at your call centre job making 55k with a masters degree.
You are wasting your potential.
It has always been experience and Australian experience
Pro tip - that's just being polite. If we said "you were rejected because of poor command of language", we could be seen as racist (ridiculous but it happens a lot).
@zhk89: What they've perhaps told you is that English isn't the concern. As an employer myself, if I can't understand you, then how are your stakeholders meant to? I would agree that experience plays a big part only if you're going for senior positions, for entry level stuff you're assessed like everyone else that has no experience, the only differentiation is your written CV and how you present at the interview (this is where language is a big factor).
Also, having a high IELTS score does not necessarily translate into being in proficient. I know of a number of people with the highest grading/band. In reality they studied will in listening and reading, but when it comes to true conversational and professional use of the language they've been like fish out of water.
P.S English isn't my first language.
@zhk89: Let's say it wasnt your English skills then. It may be your arrogant attitude in interviews that do not help since interviewers always look for people that will fit into their work culture and a friendly attitude along with a good resume.
@zhk89: I will say the same thing to you as others have said because I see hard working people stuggle, and I feel for them.
Your english needs to be excellent if you want to get ahead. Excellent means that no one can tell you were not born here. Native speaker level.
I have met many international students with a Master of Business struggling to get work.
They say Australia is racist, or they say that no one values their experience because it isn't local experience. This is objectively not true. You can see for yourself how many Australian CEOs are not white anglo-saxon.
This is the truth that no one will tell you in person. You will always be discriminated against if you don't speak PERFECT english. People will assume less of your intelligence. You will not be given any opportunities for leadership.
I am ready to learn
No you're not.
I'm not Aussie. The Australian English standards is pretty abysmal and you're not even on par with that.
I'm an employer and I know how to weed out candidates that are simply ignorant of their shortcomings and/or unable to accept criticism.
I may not speak the Aussie way
While you may have passed the necessary tests, and can write english better than I can write any language other than english, that still doesn't mean your writing doesn't come across as someone who speaks english fluently.
This could have a flow on effect into your resume and cover letters for jobs, and could just be something that minimal that means you get passed over for someone else.
Consider this constructive criticism. You've asked why you can't get ahead, we've answered with something simple, again without even knowing you or knowing how your resume/cover letters read, or how you are in interviews.
The way I'm writing here is just
he chat waywtf?. I am not writing an email nor anything which is being monitored or judged.Then it has to be your lack of logical thought.
You want to advice. You've been given advice. You rejected the advice on the premise that it is on the subject that you're actually good at. You've continually proven to the contrary.
Perhaps, instead of perpetuating the same image, demonstrate better command of the language. Maybe then you will get a different perspective.
As of right now, your poor command of the language, however certifiably to the contrary you may claim, is the jarring problem.
@[Deactivated]: bro i am writing on mobile and it missed the words. it was definitely meant to be "the way im writing here is just the chat way. not going through proof read.
@zhk89: I am writing on a mobile also.
Anyway, I actually think that you may be right. English isn't your biggest employment hurdle.
Good luck.
@zhk89: lol sarcasm undetected. Anyway, do uber to supplement your income. Getting $500 a week (after uber commission, before expenses and tax) by working 10 hours is easy.
@zhk89: Let me spell it out what tshhow meant because you obviously didn’t get the sarcasm.
What’s he saying is that English isn’t your biggest hurdle, it’s your attitude.
@zhk89: I'm not a native English speaker, either, but I feel pretty confident that "just the chat way" is not a phrase native English speakers commonly use.
Feel free to correct me but I feel, "… the way I normally write when on chat or SMS", would sound more natural…
@zhk89: Every single post on here says your English is not up to scratch (which I think as well), but you seem to vehemently disagree.
Not sure why you bothered to post on here at all if you don't want to listen to the overwhelming advice being given
@Never Pay RRP: It is up to scratch, he just can't be bothered to prove it because he's typing on a phone, jeez…get with the program!
@zhk89: Oh man.. I am not sure how you got band 9 in IELTS. Maybe you are really good at prepping for exams, but like many others have said, your English is average at best. I can tell you are not a native speaker by what you have typed in this thread. Many people have commented and given you the answer you seek, and yet you choose to dismiss the advice?
@geek001: you cant prepare for exam about speaking and writing English as nothing comes from a syllabus in there. I am just wondering if someone will understand that the way I am writing here is not my standard of english. I was after some thoughtful recommendations about skill / course / different options i can have but here it all started on English.
@zhk89: Sure, here is your answer then. Ironically, the way to make more money is to not to think about making more money. How do you make more money in your current job? Get a promotion. To get a promotion, you need to demonstrate that you have leadership skills, these are soft skills that you cannot just do a course and get a certificate, you have to demonstrate this through your everyday working life. It would also help if you have a good rapport with your superiors, and mention your desire to move up to them during your performance reviews.
You could also get a side hustle like a few people I know. They either rent out their room on Airbnb or drive Uber, since they already own their newish car and have a bit of spare time. I know a hardworking couple who has cleaning contracts with offices after hours, and they are already on good solid pay in their day jobs, and their cleaning gig is a pretty lucrative one, if you are lucky enough to get one.
@geek001: Makes sense :) appreciated. I do see scope in my current job with leadership roles as possibility but that is not my goal. I got your point. Thank heaps.
@zhk89: Look, I'm Chinese and likely so are many many others on this forum and in this thread. I wasn't born here and I had to suffer through ESL. Take it onboard as constructive criticism that, even if your IELTS results say you have a good technical grasp of English, you come across very obviously as someone not 100% familiar or comfortable with the language.
This is common because I've noticed this in my cousins also - syntactically and grammatically they're nigh on perfect, even better than I am. But in terms of flow, nuance and connotations in word choice, and general idiosyncracies, their English sticks out, as does yours, like a sore thumb.
I'm also typing this on a mobile by the way, in case that's relevant at all.
You asked how you can improve. There may be other reasons, like lack of recent and/or relevant Australian experience, or being overqualified (an MBA is commonly something your company sends you to do), or that you might not interview well in person. But your written English is also very evidently a factor.
@zhk89: I think you need to be writing here in your best English. Otherwise nobody will take you seriously.
@geek001: There is no way he got 9 in IELTS for writing. For PTE yes, it is possible, since there are tricks to achieve really good results with PTE.
@zhk89: Lol yeah, so according to you, Australians speak Aussie, not English. Better start learning our language if you want a better job
@zhk89: Mate, those tests are tests after all. They are an indication of your language skill, but it doesn't mean your English is perfect even when you get a band score of 9/9. You could be far from it.
I don't think everyone is bashing on your English. They are just commenting on your attitude. You miss the point and are way too defensive.
True story. I have some colleagues who earn about $200k a year and guess what, they speak broken English! Does it matter? In this case, no. They are great communicators and positive thinkers. Despite their limited language skill, they always find ways to effectively communicate with others. I think that's what matters. I really like working with them.
@Leeroy Jenkins: agree totally with you. I also have foreign colleagues with broken English (spoken and written) and I love working with them too. Team players accepting of the fact we all need to work together. They often know heaps more about technical stuff than i do and sometimes they ask me to check an important document before they send it out.
@zhk89: Think of it like this.
You pass the driving test. Does that mean you're a great driver? Not necessarily. All it means is you've managed to pass the test, which is a test to see if you pass the MINIMUM standards.
I've only read a part of the thread and from what I can tell, you have a disconnect from the reality of your worth compared to others. I see this disconnect often. It hits people in what they see as a glass ceiling.
Take for instance, masters in business administration. It's about as useful as an arts degree to getting a well paying job. Take it from someone with the latter doing a part time gig who gets what you're getting paid.
How do you make more money in your current job?
There's no secret to it. Be worth more. Add more value. Bring an extra $50k of value to your boss (or another boss) to the table and it's easy to get paid another $10k. It's really that simple. Want more, again, add more value.
Adding real provable value of worth tough in customer service when there's 50 chumps who can do 90% of what you can do anyway. If I were you, I'd switch to an area that is easier to get paid more when you can bring more.
I'll also reitterate what others have said. Work on your communication. This is in the context of where you're living. You're living in Australia… It's not just the language, the mannerisms I'm seeing may work in other countries, but here, they often upset the locals, whom you're trying to get them to give you more money.
As to your "I don't have time to find another job"… do or don't. No one else should care. If you don't make the time making a better life for yourself, then your only chance is to luck upon a better life.
Jeez - Yeah OP's english is far from perfect, but it's certainly not deeply flawed as other commenters are suggesting.
OP's attitude is somewhat defiant however - which Ozbargainers don't seem to be warming too.
OP - there's always room for improvement. You're english is perfectly functional and you've done well to get it to that level - but it's not necessarily in tune local grammar/idioms. That shouldn't impact on your job hunting abilities too significantly, but it's something to perhaps recognise.
Better way to put it. Like your way of suggesting it. The others seem to be English Language teachers.
@zhk89: OP i have a friend who is currently looking for work. US citizen, MBA, experienced, native english speaker, white - she is finding it difficult to find work as Australian employers seem to value local experience / devalue foreign experience (unless of course it's UK experience, where the culture/institutions/business practices are obviously quite similar).
So you're not alone in finding the lack of local experience a bit of a hurdle.
My friend is attempting to gain the local experience by volunteering/interning etc. Not everyone is in a position to be able to do this - but it can sometimes lead to permanent positions.
My theory is that Australia's relative isolation, lack of land borders (and having to interact with a foreign culture), cultural affinity towards the UK/Anglo western world, means that there's a bit of a parochial attitude in this country, that often diminishes international experience. Many Australians seem to find it difficult to believe that people in other countries are competent in many areas - a foreign accent seems to confirm their views. I don't think it's a malicious thing - it's just a cultural prejudice born from isolation/lack of exposure, and a cultural unwillingness/disinterest in looking beyond Australia.
Big generalisation and usually loath to make them. But having said that, once you build social networks beyond work and get a better sense of the local culture, Australians are by and large pretty easy going and welcoming.
@zhk89: It's less your written skills (which appear functional), but rather the attitude that there's no room for improvement. You're swearing up and down that your English isn't the problem, but maybe start considering the possibility that it is.
Rather than being obstinate, realise that a high IELTS does not equal a native speaker. How are you going to stand out from thousands of international and domestic candidates when MBAs are apparently handed out like Aldi catalogues.
Here we go.