my sister needs a new macbook for school, said school requires macbook nothing else. i looked at the specs https://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/space-grey…, 2 core 1.6ghz, 128ssd, 13'3 1600p monitor, 8gb 2133 ram, and $1699? i dont know the exact price of the components but i think this is worth $600 at max, $1699 and a 2 core 1.6ghz boost 3.6ghz, is this meant to be a joke? how did apple manage to get schools to require their rip off junk? told her i can build her a 4k beast for that price but she said macbook only because school requires it (which will play 720p @ 10-20fps, and modern games wont even run on 2 cores), what the phuck seriously how did they get schools to require it.
How Does Apple Get Away with The MacBook?
Gerry H on 19/11/2019 - 16:43
Last edited 19/11/2019 - 16:45
Last edited 19/11/2019 - 16:45
Comments
@Gerry H: Ok.
But you did say quite directly that a 2019 era cpu will not last 3 years, completely ignoring the obvious point that windows laptops use exactly the same intel CPUs as macs.
I literally don’t understand the logic of your argument. Buy a windows laptop using exactly the same cpu as found in a Mac cause somehow it be faster and last longer for….. reasons. It literally makes no sense.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
it's most likely because of an IT staff's management of student computers - if you get everything with uniform specs and OS set-up then it's easier to maintain from a hardware management view because everyone should have the same machine. Plus it creates a level playing field for the kids if everyone has the same thing.
You can say "hey you need to install this particular piece of software" and be far more confident that 99% of the classroom can run that software without issue because you know everyone has the exact same machine. Allowing people to use PCs will cause too many exceptions.
Plus, she goes to a private school - I'm guessing someone on the school board is making some kind of kick-back from ensuring Mac sales to someone.
"I'm guessing someone on the school board is making some kind of kick-back from ensuring Mac sales to someone"
definitely what i was thinking. its all about money these days, there's no more virtue of the old days.
there's no more virtue of the old days.
Didn't Plato say something similar?
definitely what i was thinking. its all about money these days, there's no more virtue of the old days.
Oh Lordy, clutch your pearls, and think of the virtue!
Riiiight, Apple's bribing schools. Yep. I guess Dell must also be handing out envelopes stuffed with bills, seeing how many Inspirons are in unis. Google must also be greasing lots of palms in the K-6 range, judging from how many Chromebooks are in primary schools. It's a giant conspiracy, bro!
Mate, Garry here has been grasping at straws since the original post - are we surprised they would suggest Apple would bribe schools? Really odd, cos that then directly contradicts their assertion that Apple has hoodwinked School departments.
@ThithLord: Also how would they even go about bribing a school for a BYOD program? The school isn't spending any money with them, the parents are buying them from JB HiFi/Harvey Norman etc, Apple would not give a hoot where these personally purchased devices end up.
Chances are super high the school has never had any direct contact with anyone in Apple. If anyone has ever had any dealing with Apple outside of the retail setting, you would know this is something they just wouldn't do, because they actually don't have to do it to get people to buy their products. Their mentality is very 'choose us or don't, we'll be fine without you'.
@salbee28: You're telling me you can find wholes in their logic from barely scratching the surface?!?!? lmao
@ThithLord: Therein lies the irony, OP accuses Apple users of being sheep, yet he's the only one here who is exhibiting sheep behaviour.
there's no more virtue of the old days.
you mean the same "good old days" where women weren't allowed to vote, aboriginal people were legally classified as "fauna & flora", there was forced military conscription, homosexuality was a crime, and there was nothing wrong with have a few too many schooners at the pub then driving home? Those good old days?
never heard of school that requires only mac for school.
i wonder what the admin and finance staff are using, i am sure they use excel on their daily activities.
my son uses a refurbished yoga, it has one advantage the mac cant do. touchscreen feature.
There are more than a encouraging or restricting students to Mac's. It gets covered a lot on facebook parent forums.
Even with the education discounts, the Yoga's are comparably priced, if not more expensive. (Remember apple also offer student pricing on both the Hardware and Apple Care). Apple also price match sales like 15% off Jb, Good Guys ect..Quite a few studies have shown that in most use cases, touch screens are detrimental to productivity. But highly useful for creativity (eg: arts).
To make things interesting, my daughters school supplied Yoga's in Primary, but in middle and high-school they have to provide their own device.
Chrombooks, Windows or Mac's. 90% have Mac's but it isn't policy. Some people ignore instructions and bring tablets, and really struggle.My laptop is a Yoga, and it is a good machine and really good build quality. More usb-c ports than the Macbook.
But I don't touch the screen as I get pissed off by the smudging!!!.
Only downside with Lenovo, is all the old security issues, like the time when their BIOS was coded to replace windows DLL's to perform man in the middle SSL intercepts. Yes they could see all your banking details ect.. ohh but it was all innocent so they could place their own adds in google searches.
No indication they still do this, but hey scary what they were doing.
Quite a few studies have shown that in most use cases, touch screens are detrimental to productivity.
Would you be able to cite them? Genuinely curious as I've heard nothing but praise for touch screens improving productivity.
Personally, being able to manipulate large documents on a touch screen is way better than using a trackpad.
Unfortunately all this post does is to show how much OP values his daughter's education.
Also the fact that OP completely misses the point that kids today are all Apple.
Apple Macbooks, Apple iPod, Apple iPhones.To me its like OPs daughter saying she wants to drive a small sports car and OP wants to build her a TRUCK!
OP misses the point completely.
Time to get with it OPdaughter
oh macbook is definitely small sports car. with its blazing fast 2 core 3.6ghz boost.
sister-daughter
eww
lol thats actually possible, guys with mommy issues would know, although technically only a half sister
It's his sister.
To me this post just smells of a teenage brother having a complaint about Apple products. Which is perfectly reasonable. The smarter thing for the school to do is start increasing their 30k annual fees to 32k for new enrolments and giving away "Free Macbooks"
As for the OP, money makes the world go round, you pay the big bucks so apple can put that money into education programs and sales reps and those education programs and sales reps do their job and get their products into school curriculum's which force children to buy Ipads and Macbook pros. The money goes into other things like RND, Customer service etc too obviously.
Apple has been targeting education since the 1980's. It's part of their business strategy to teach them young the Apple way in hopes it will stick to them like a bad habbit. I remember using an Apple II in primary school in the 1980's. It's stupid to base your education around a propriety intellect that could disappear in 10 years time.
right, cant come up with real innovation other than iphone so uses dirty marketing tactics. just like i said.
Microsoft is a prime example of dirty marketing tactics. Did you forget the history of how Bill Gates dominated the landscape?
Just wait till you need to shell out $6k on a macbook for dev work
thats different, $6k is being used to make more money and as happirt said they made a lot of people stick to their ecosystem and their softwares, definitely not worth learning the windows counterpart softwares just to save $6k. dev work would bother me a lot less.
I think the bigger issue here is the school.
I fail to see what a Mac(book) can do that a windows or chromebook cant, in an academic situation.
I’m not a Mac user, but I have an iPhone and iPad and enjoy both. So not a fanboy and not a hater either.
I fail to see what a Mac(book) can do that a windows or chromebook cant,
schools get incentives to use Apple.
also school only wants to provide support for 1 platform (cheaper for them) rather than 3.
im sure all decisions made are based on funding..etc rather than the education itself.Actually the biggest incentives today comes from Google and Microsoft. And not too many, apart from Universities are jumping across to Google despite the bigger incentives.
Not a lot of incentives to use Apple products for schools, may be a custom deal you are aware of for a local school. But in general terms no.
Pretty much every hardware vendor offers educational discounts to schools and students both for hardware and software.Microsoft and Google are not hardware vendors, they are software. They rely mostly on other hardware manufactures to make the devices. The software will install on almost any compatible device from any device manufactures . this fragments the whole ecosystem and is harder/costlier to support hence why Apple is most likely chosen.
@happirt: You stated Apple offer incentives, I cited the key example being Google, where incentives are offered for both Hardware and Software.
They are driving to deploy Chromebooks in schools along with their gcloud suite.
I summed up why schools lean towards apple in another reply, so I won't re-state it.
It's basically about support costs.
Going Windows is akin to Android. Yes you have decent vendors, but also so much more crap, and you know what a decent % of parents will purchase? It won't be the brand names.
Poor parents get kids cheap devices, rich parents get good devices. At least with Apple, it helps balance the field. As an old re-furb will do the same as a new machine.
A day in the life of support.
In an Enterprise with a single hardware vendor (Lenovo, Dell, HP), each model will have issues with Windows features. Typically BYO devices for schools have to be enrolled in Mobile Device Management.
Extend this to a school environment and, all the cheap clones and knockoffs come out with fake windows keys.
It's not realistic to say offer windows and say Lenovo only, unless the school supplies.
With Apple, a lot of the issues go away with a single vendor providing the hardware and software.
For a simpler example, look at Android Phones v's Apple.
Yes Android phones and all in all technically superior, but you get a lot of crap with vendor bloatware.
The user experience and interface is inconsistent.
Again this all goes away promoting Apple and in all honestly the price point is comparable to Lenovo Surface Pro's ect.
Hi, I work in IT in a primarily macOS education environment.
Compatibility. Ease of use. Low learning curve. Uniform operating system means easier IT support and problem solving.
You're looking at it the wrong way. There is a higher upfront cost for a superior education device. It is a case of being the right tool for the job. You can resell Macbooks for a higher price as they retain their value well.
I'm no fanboy, but working in education has shown me that macs really are superior devices in education environments.
What about from an education point of view though?
What happens if Apple becomes close to bankruptcy (just like what happened in the 1990's) and most of their proprietary intellect you are teaching the kids now become obsolete over time to some other tech company like MS that do things differently?
To me, a similar analogy to this is Dictatorship (Apple) vs Democracy (Google), where Google are more accepting of universal standards over proprietary standards that only Apple can define and use.
It's better to teach the kids the fundamentals and lasting education rather than what is trending today and obsolete tomorrow. It's better to not throw all your education in 1 basket, esp. in technology where the industry moves fast.
Agreed, can’t belive people still watches TV these days. Moving pictures is so 100 years ago.
Trying to decrypt what you're saying… no luck as of yet.
What happens if Apple becomes close to bankruptcy (just like what happened in the 1990's)
This is how we know you are absolutely not arguing in good faith.
What if the first company to accrue a trillion dollars valuation goes bankrupt???
Can't even bother dissecting the rest of this tripe.
you obviously think Rome still rules. talk to you in 10 years time.
@happirt: If you can draw similarities between Rome and Apple, I'm all ears. I'm not going to do the work for you.
You think Apple will fail in ten years? lmao. Okay. You've got to be joking. Please, enlighten us.
@ThithLord: I said, "what if" not "when". learn to read. nobody knows. nothing is guaranteed. but I can tell you right now no business lasts forever. talk to you in 10 years time.
"first company to accrue a trillion dollars valuation" is not a guarantee so your argument that it won't fall is as weak as mine
"first company to accrue a trillion dollars valuation" is not a guarantee so your argument that it won't fall is as weak as mine
It categorically is a guarantee it won't fail in the next tean years, dude - unless you are suggesting Apple could realistically lose US$100B a year without accruing any further assets and income. Say that out loud to yourself, and say it slowly.
@ThithLord: That's just a valuation. in the real world, they don't have that much. you dont have much understanding of how big corporate operate do you?
@happirt: They have at least US$210B on hand. Can you even make one single argument? I have made counterpoints to your blatantly zero-effort arguments; you can't even provide one reason Apple will fail within ten years.
@ThithLord: I said "What if" I never said "It will", you know like a contingency plan
Learn to read then we can talk.
@happirt: Oh, okay, I can play that game.
What if Apple triples in value in ten years? What if Apple's support period for their products triples? What if?
What if Microsoft dies? What if Google dies? Your Windows knowledge would've been for naught. Point is, investing in one platform always has its risks, and whether it's MS or Google or Apple makes no difference.
What do people use when they're doing I.T related classes?
I think a Mac can stifle technical curiosity.
I had a Windows Laptop in year 12 for school and I knew a hell of a lot more about computers than my peers that did design/film classes on a Mac.Couldn't do as much with a Mac back then so it might be a moot point anyway with VM software and the like. shrug
Edit: Just to clarify, I know a lot of developers prefer Unix based OS'
In my perfect world everyone would run Linux!
Depends how many of those Mac users ever opened up Terminal themselves :)
if you aren’t sure why not ask the school about it? From my experience its peace of mind to work with macs and managing them. I remember in uni I was cleaning friends pcs of viruses every other day…
Macs they just work better/ more user friendly and has good eco system that works in parallel with other apple devices as well as applications. It is possible school has some mac softwares they could be using in classes.
ios emulator?
I use a MacBook but when I was looking at switching back to Windows, I found it hard finding a well build metal windows laptop for the same price.
Well, it is not just the hardware but also the OS. Apple seems to put a really shit specs on their cheapest which typically makes you more inclined to get the next one.
You can build a 4K beast for that price? A desktop sure, but a laptop? Not everything is about gaming you know, some people need portability and long battery which your "4K beast" doesn't do.
For me, Apple makes awesome screen & iPad, I personally only use iPad and the rest I use windows/android.
Since your sister is required to have a macbook, get a 13inch macbook pro ($1849 with apple education). Then again it comes with a 128gb ssd and costs extra $300 to get 256gb. WTH. I am pretty sure the ssd is soldered to the mobo and my friend who works at apple told me it is actually a raid ssd, that's why it is expensive. (Not sure if it is right or not though).
Agreed that Apple do charge quite a bit for hardware upgrades but I find even on the lower spec models, the average user won't be left 'wanting'. As far as I can tell, there are no "bad" specs on any of Apple's computers (I'm sure someone will correct me) in terms of it being unusable. Compare this to the experiences of some Windows-based machines where manufacturers try to race to the bottom of pricing and release hardware which offers a poor user experience and a bitter taste.
On the other hand, I also think Apple would argue that instead of spending more on components on an ongoing basis, they'd rather invest the R&D in optimising their software and integration so that it doesn't need such powerful hardware to still deliver the experience which customers demand. This approach hasn't done too poorly for them in the past on their other hardware if you consider how iOS devices always seem to lose out to Android in specsheets but the end user experience doesn't feel compromised due to the hardware specifications.
Shrug. If I used an analogy it's like they chose to invest in writing a really efficient line of code vs. just spending more on storage to fit in chunky inefficient code.
Yes, Apple OS is more optimised than Windows and Android.
I don't think apple has released an unusable laptop since the Macbook Air 1.0 with the hard disk in 2008, now that was a laptop that was completely unusable due to overheating and slow crappy Toshiba 1.8" HDD. Funnily enough it was a Steve Jobs product, which fans are going to say "ahead of its time" and haters are going to say "Jobs is a greedy ass."
If you live in Victoria and if she goes to a government school, the school is not allowed to mandate what hardware you buy. The school can make suggestions, but that's as far as they are allowed to push.
There is some good news. Macbook resale prices are just as irrational.
I should say that from the school's point of view, the mac may be less hassle. Although people say "there is malware for macs" (truly, really really), it is completely mythical in the real world.
Personally, a pox on both their houses. I've been desktop linux on Thinkpads for three years (after five years on Macs) and it's the best solution for me. Even gaming is not a complete disaster on Linux any more, although this is not a high priority for me.
She goes to a private school
Of course - anyone who doesn't buy what you like must be an idiot!! Thank you for setting us all straight.
Gee. Who would have thought a private school might require a few expensive gadgets!! Shocker!!
You can’t give a poor kid a windows machine when their teacher is teaching in MacOS. (And vice versa.)
It’s not even about whether you can provide them a device spec-for-spec. The class is taught in one operating system. And if they’re using a class device enrolment they’re only supporting one operating system as well. And if they are providing software licences - probably also one OS!
If you want the child to use Windows, do that on your own time.
if i had a penny for every time someone said child…
Eh. Minor detail kind of besides the point.
Its almost as unpalatable as the thought of shopping at a HN store and paying their prices.
do u dare diss HN to my face in real life?
Sure. I'm sure we could turn it in to an even as we'd get numbers to turn up for it.
Get a beast laptop… install Linux… problem solved
I’m going to play the devil’s advocate here, even though I hate Apple myself, would never buy a Mac, play games and build my own computers…
There certainly is margin in these machines but I challenge anyone to find a similarly specced machine at a similar price that’s just as thin, light, sturdy and stylish.
While I would be more than happy with a Thinkpad or Latitude to carry around, you’ve got to agree those are some ugly machines. Sure the specs are good and on paper they tick all the boxes but put them side by side and to the average consumer, the MacBook looks like the premium machine.
Add to that, you get the Mac OS system, which some people swear by. It isn’t a virus free experience but it certainly isn’t as bad as windows machines. And let’s talk service and support, sure, Dell and Lenovo probably have an international component to their warranty, but do they have premium stores in conveniently central locations across the world that allows customer walk-ins for warranty? I know it’s not all roses with Apple’s AppleCare warranty division for these claims but they are still leagues ahead.
So, for me and you, the power users, we build desktops with better specs that can even game for literally half the price. Hell, see the crazy Techfast deals lately… but this is ignoring the primary user’s needs for the machine: a computer to carry to school every day, with good battery life and a mostly trouble free ownership experience that is consistent with every other students’. To OP, your sister doesn’t need a gaming laptop, she needs a thin and light machine and that’s exactly what the Air is. I would probably suggest taking it one step further and spending a couple of hundred extra and getting a MacBook Pro 13 for the better CPU. Might as well at this stage.
Ps: I sell computers for a living and have grown out of trying to convince people to buy something other than a Mac if that’s what they came in looking for, unless they say they’re open to windows alternatives. The reasons listed above are some that I frequently hear customers mention when making a Mac purchase.
I'm a teacher in a school where the students choose between Mac or PC (obviously not private school) most of the students have PC so I use a PC and if things work on PC that's 90% of the students so the students with Apple products need to work it out themselves (if they have a problem, I'll happily help but not in class time if I have other students who need help more). I can 100% understand changing to a system where parents don't choose the brand, but that can probably only happen for a private school.
I expect if I actually had to deal with IT issues I'd be really keen to have the school decree only apple.
The good thing is that students at a public school need to become good at sorting out their own problems because IT won't fix everything. The bad thing is that one of the solutions is to have a device that just frequently "isn't working"
I teach at a tertiary level and use Gentoo Linux for everything. I select core software that is available on Linux, Mac and Windows. If that cross platform compatibility is not possible, then I choose online resources. Students are free to use whatever devices, operating systems or software they want as long as it does the job and the results are available in a format that can be consumed on any platform.
I think it is important for people to be aware that the software or OS does not matter nearly as much as the quality and accessibility of the content that they generate.
No one wants to download an iMovie or Adobe Premiere project. A link to YouTube video is what people want. If I want to use DaVinci Resolve to create the video clip, so be it.
Solution: Buy a Xiaomi Mi Air Laptop, whack an Apple sticker on the lid, dual boot Mac OS alongside Windows. They look pretty damn close to a Mac and they're a decent laptop too.
dual boot Mac OS alongside Windows
You can do that on a Xiaomi Mi Air?
The apple logo is worth $1000. XD
Maybe I've skimmed the replies too quickly and missed this but has the school actually even specified why it has to be a MacBook?
Yes people have given various theories on why, but knowing the facts would be good. Similarly if the answer is "well, just because", and there is no coherent technical reason for it (like networks or supplied software), then maybe screw it. Like if in the end most of the work is still on basic Office-style software, then there really is no need and if anything it'll teach logical thinking in translating "Mac-steps" to "Windows steps".
You should check if they can be hired from the school if you don't want to drop $1,699 on one. My kids primary school requires a Microsoft surface pro from grade 3 onwards. However,they note that they can be hired per term from the school if a parent can't pay for one.
I was told that schools typically require students to all have the same tablet/computer so that when the teacher explains a step they don't need to go around and explain how to do that on all these different operating systems.
Seems logical to me. I'd also guess that at least from my experience with Mac, it's alot harder to install something which totally mucks it up.
You're undervaluing the OS and the end to end ownership experience (easy warranty returns, free Genius Bar, etc).
See how much a Dell laptop would cost if you had 5 Dell stores in town offer free tech support over the counter.
Obviously there is an additional premium over and above this but that's how pricing work. The best might cost 2x but only be 20% better.
I forgot to mention, re-sale and repairs.
Compare the experience with Windows laptops - basically (sadly) they become paperweights once they are ~3 years old and the batteries bite the dust.
A 3 year old MacBook though is still worth something though. Put a new battery in it and away you go.
Have a serious problem with your Samsung / HP / Dell laptop at year 3 - might as well chuck it.
(I'm exaggerating but you get the idea).
Why people pay $50 for meals that has specs of 900 calorie, 25gr sugar, 10gr of vitamin C, and 200gr of protein? I can easily buy other brands for less than 25% of the price!
See what I did there? Specs aren’t the only thing people compare when buying things. As others mentioned above, software, iCloud, integration with iOS, support, build quality, longevity, etc matters as well.
As an aside not all PCs are cheap too. Look at Microsoft Surface. It’s got really nice build quality too like MacBooks.
iCloud can go to hell
Imagine if schools required parents to buy the same $50 meals to spec out nutritional values instead of what ever you thought was appropriated for your budget, your kids tastes and what you think is good value.
See what I did there?
Exactly, schools don't have time to deal with every parent doing what they want, they don't have the time for that. They'd rather everyone just buy the same meal and not have to deal with the headaches.
There's a lot of bias against Apple. At the end of the day, it's all about the reputation/image of private school and its students. Apple/MacBook products have always been viewed as more premium (not necessarily valuable) in tech space and that's what the private school is after. Plus, parents who can afford to send their kids to private schools generally would not be fussed about the few hundred dollars difference in laptops, since the school fees are in the tens of thousands.
Plus, I don't think Apple would "get" the private school to require it. It's more likely that the school wanted to use MacBook themselves.
Yep, HP Have Envy, Dell have XPS. All of them fairly similar pricing tiers.
Apple just don't have a "Budget" tier.
If you can afford the cinema ticket you can afford the popcorn! (maybe TC brings his own superior flavoured home made popcorn into the cinemas?)
Honestly though I’m not sure if this thread is serious or not. Most people who have worked in the industry or even in a large corporate understands the reason why businesses (and a school is just a business in this case) would want to standardise their environment… and that’s before you consider the classroom benefits if everyone having similar hardware and software.
That is OzBargain!
Get cheap Dell that is Hackintosh compatible. Flash Mac OS, slap Apple Logo on the back.If you don't buy her a MacBook and everyone else has one you're just leaving her open to ridicule. Get over the sticker shock and buy it.
I neither inherit any money nor have someone in family going to a private school but will always buy a Mac over Windows.
And I’ll be as angry as you are right now if the schools force my kids to buy a Windows.
Try compare the Surface Laptop and Mac Air price… not some cheap Asus or Acer junk…
LOL
Idiots buy it, why not sell a low spec laptop for 2k if they'll buy it
How could you wade through the plethora of comments on this very thread outlining why Apple MacBooks are a superior choice, and come to the conclusion idiots buy them?
Hows about you try something called critical thinking, yeah?
I’d say that idiots buy pc laptops out of choice. I’ve got PCs and Macs. I have a Lenovo for work and a MacBook Pro for personal use, plus I have a new AMD PC I built. So I’m not biased. But my 5 year old MacBook Pro is still worth over $1000. A 5 year old PC Laptop is literally Worthless. I’d sell my MacBook Pro, except it’s more capable than my Lenovo (higher end though) and works just as well as my old man’s new i9 MacBook Pro. Apple just replaced the screen out fo warranty for free, and at the same time did the trackpad, keyboard and case. Cost me nothing. I got a new battery at the same time which cost me $270 and it’s basically a new laptop. It’s probably got a couple years of life left in it. Apple’s customer service is second to none. The longevity of the products are second to none.
i dont know the exact price of the components but i think this is worth $600 at max, $1<<
lolTroll post.
Have you used a Macbook before? Different world to PC's… They seem to do more with less resources.
Well that's what happens when you go to an elitist private school
Also lol @ everyone defending the macbook for "TCO". I didn't know I had to send in my windows laptop for "repair" every 3 months lmao.
i know, i mentioned this multiple times but its just not getting through. i rarely needed warranty, and when i needed them on my non apple products never had a single problem. unless apple has longer warranty duration than competitors their "support" is worthless.
shameless plug
my macbook pro is for sale in the classifieds section
This post seems to be a shitpost, so probably won't get a sale from here
meh, worth a shot…
@lunchbox99: im really sick of arguing with u, u havent read a word i said other than the 4k bit.