Double Glazing Existing Windows

Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 09:48
Last edited 14/11/2019 - 09:49

Hi All,

I live near a train line and although the trains don't bother me too much most of the time, they do annoy my wife occasionally. So I wonder if I could make our bedroom a bit quieter with double glazed windows. I'm thinking of doing about 4 medium sized windows at the front of the house.

  • Has anyone retro fitted existing windows with double glazed ones? Was it hassle free or a pain in the bum?
  • If you've had it done, did you notice a big difference in sound reduction and heat retention in winter and heat deflection in summer?
  • Do they have to remove the entire window frame and put new ones in or just remove the glass and replace the glass?
  • Did it feel very expensive or good value? Any ideas on rough pricing I should be looking at? (I realise this is a piece of string question)
  • Any suggested companies to get quotes from in Melbourne?

Thanks!

Home & Garden

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 14/11/2019 - 09:58
    +5

    Has anyone retro fitted existing windows with double glazed ones? Was it hassle free or a pain in the bum?

    Hassle free. Windows are almost the last thing to be fitted in a build so it's really undoing the last step and redoing.

    If you've had it done, did you notice a big difference in sound reduction and heat retention in winter and heat deflection in summer?

    For me yes, for you maybe not. Sound can resonate through the window but that's not the only way it enters your building and not the only surface that resonates. Sound perception is logarithmic or non linear at best. If you fix the 50%, that may not make a perceptible difference. Similar but lesser extent for heat.

    Do they have to remove the entire window frame and put new ones in or just remove the glass and replace the glass?

    Frame and all. Maybe not the subframe but it's not just the glass.

    Did it feel very expensive or good value? Any ideas on rough pricing I should be looking at? (I realise this is a piece of string question)
    Any suggested companies to get quotes from in Melbourne?

    Depending on surface size. The cost of a window is largely number of windows and not size. If you have many small openable windows vs many large fixed pane glass panels, you'll find that the large fixed pane may actually cost substantially less.

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:07

      Good advice here thanks.

      Two of the windows are openable with a windy thing. I guess that will play out once I get a few quotes.

      Frame and all.

      So I need to factor in painting as well then. Thanks.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/11/2019 - 10:09

        It's only the painting around the wooden bits, not the cladding.

        3 mid height windows, you're looking at a 2L pot of enamel.

        • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:11

          Heh yeah just that its on the second floor but yes shouldnt be too much hassle.

          • [Deactivated] on 14/11/2019 - 10:12

            @Skramit: Add cost of ladder. Haha.

            PS. You're referring to an awning window. They're on the higher price end of openable windows.

          • GG57 on 14/11/2019 - 10:24
            +1

            @Skramit: Add some extra $ for the second floor installation costs.

            • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:35

              @GG57: sadface

              Yeah i figured that would be the case.

  • Stewardo on 14/11/2019 - 10:02
    +4

    Depends how much money you want to spend
    You can:
    Replace the window with double glazing $$$
    Add an additional window on the window sill
    Or add a piece over existing

    https://www.magnetite.com.au/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=o…

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:05
      +1

      Depends how much money you want to spend

      I don't mind spending the money if it's going to make a decent difference. It's also a permanent, long term investment and we don't plan on moving house any time soon (15 years+).

      Add an additional window on the window sill
      Or add a piece over existing

      From my layman knowledge of double glazing, the last two sound like a fairly ineffective thing to do? Do they actually work?

      https://www.magnetite.com.au/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=o…

      Wow that's not what I expected, they just bolt on an extra pane of plastic. Looks ugly and having two windows to open each time would annoy me haha. I was more thinking of proper double glazed glass which wont alter the appearance of the room.

    • Lastchancetosee on 15/11/2019 - 10:17

      Thanks for link. Saw this on Selling Houses Australia, and am consideribg.

  • brad1-8tsi on 14/11/2019 - 10:16

    Are you sure the sound is transmitting through the windows?

    Is the ceiling insulated sufficiently?

    Are there any vents in the walls?

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:34
      +1

      Are you sure the sound is transmitting through the windows?

      No. And I'm sure some sound comes through thew walls as well. but surely the windows would be one of the main culprits?

      Is the ceiling insulated sufficiently?

      I've been up there and there's good insulation. Whether it's "sufficient" is another question.

      Are there any vents in the walls?

      No.

      • brad1-8tsi on 14/11/2019 - 10:35
        +1

        you seem to have it covered.

        The wall vents are the worst

  • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 10:33

    Dupe Post

  • JimmyF on 14/11/2019 - 10:47
    +2

    So I wonder if I could make our bedroom a bit quieter with double glazed windows.

    Yep we changed some windows out for double glazed ones. Much quieter now. But if you are a person that likes to have the window cracked a bit, a lot of that sound proofing is lost, they need to be closed tight.

    Remember its not magic, it will REDUCE the sound levels, not make them go away.

    • jjjaar on 14/11/2019 - 11:04

      This - if you ever open your window it’s a useless exercise for sound proofing.

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:08

      Yep we changed some windows out for double glazed ones. Much quieter now. But if you are a person that likes to have the window cracked a bit, a lot of that sound proofing is lost, they need to be closed tight.

      Nah they will be mostly closed 99% of the time. Only open occasionally to let cool air in after a warm day in summer.

      Remember its not magic, it will REDUCE the sound levels, not make them go away.

      Yeah understand this. I'm not expecting a sound studio ;)

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:10

      Did you find it was more expensive than you expected? Do you think it was worth the money?

      • JimmyF on 14/11/2019 - 14:54
        +1

        Did you find it was more expensive than you expected?

        We had been replacing the windows, so wasn't much more than single pane windows.

        Do you think it was worth the money?

        Yes 100%, cuts down lots of road noise.

        • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 14:55

          Good feedback, thanks.

  • dcep on 14/11/2019 - 10:51

    tall acoustic fence, if you don't mind the aesthetics

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:09

      Nah not viable where the windows are.

  • kingsville on 14/11/2019 - 11:03

    heavy curtains?

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:09

      Theres already wooden blinds on the windows which help a bit.

      • brad1-8tsi on 14/11/2019 - 11:29
        +1

        I think a thick curtain with a backing would be better

        • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:31
          +1

          Curtains are ugly though :P

          • brad1-8tsi on 14/11/2019 - 11:50

            @Skramit: They would be if I chose them.

            I live 50m from a main rail line. I was worried about the noise when i bought last year but I rarely hear them. If I ever renovate I'll probably double glaze.
            -33.895927,151.188835

  • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 11:07

    Omg another dupe

  • MilkDrinker on 14/11/2019 - 12:23

    Insulate the walls if you haven't, much cheaper, but a little messier since you have to remove plasterboard to access. Most australian households only do the roof. Got bunnings to price match my 2.7 batts for about $70 a bag.

    Could also be gaps around the window, if you ever get access have a look and see if you can get some expanding foam and fill any gaps.

    Have a carpet to help muffle noise echo?

    Inspect/replace existing window weather strip for aging/damage?

    Double glazed windows are a $$$ expense. Overpriced down in Australia, Europeans get triple glazed for our double glazed costs and some Australians even decide to import DG windows from china/overseas to avoid the price gouging.

    Skipped window insulation films as those are similar to magnetite and you'd have to remove them everytime you wanna open your window.

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 14:54

      Could also be gaps around the window, if you ever get access have a look and see if you can get some expanding foam and fill any gaps.

      Will have a look but house is under 10 years old so hopefully no big cracks!

      Have a carpet to help muffle noise echo?

      Yes :)

      Double glazed windows are a $$$ expense

      Yeah that was the sense I got when doing some early googling. Hence why i was curious of peopels experiences and whether it's worth it.

  • kingsville on 14/11/2019 - 14:35

    Roller shutters?
    On the outside, protect from storms/sun and reduce noise?

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 14:53

      Possible….. but its street facing and would look kinda ugly to have shutters down half the time.

    • SimbaGirl on 14/11/2019 - 16:35
      +1

      We had roller shutters on all our front windows when we lived in WA, they helped somewhat with keeping some of the heat out, but did sod-all for reducing noise of any kind.

  • DashCam AKA Rolts on 14/11/2019 - 14:53
    +3

    We replaced the two windows of our bedroom (each 2m high x 900mm wide) that face east and are close to a road where people park for the local cafe/restaurant strip and pub. Car doors early and late.

    The existing aluminium windows were totally removed (complete frame out) with no issue. The new double glazed windows were installed as complete units. Our new frames were uPVC, and as they were white, did not require painting in our case.

    As to cost, we selected the thickest glass pane, 10mm + 5mm options, with a slight tint, for heat/sound effectiveness, with half of each window able to be opened with wind out mechanism. The glass choices obviously affect the price. We spent around $3 600.

    Installation was completed in about 6 hrs by one guy for the 2 windows. No further painting work was required.

    Sound has been dramatically reduced, but is not silent (sound enters from a variety of points in most homes). Heat ingress has been also substantially reduced. As far as we are concerned, it was well worth the expense.

    • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 14:57

      the local cafe/restaurant strip and pub

      For some reason all i read was "local strip club". I was thinking, geez what a bonus!

      As to cost, we selected the thickest glass pane, 10mm + 5mm options, with a slight tint, for heat/sound effectiveness, with half of each window able to be opened with wind out mechanism. The glass choices obviously affect the price. We spent around $3 600.

      This is great to know. Thanks!

      Sound has been dramatically reduced, but is not silent (sound enters from a variety of points in most homes). Heat ingress has been also substantially reduced. As far as we are concerned, it was well worth the expense.

      Cheers for the feedback!

    • Dinner Plate on 15/11/2019 - 14:55

      This is good advice about two different thicknesses of glass when installing double glazing for noise reduction. Different sound wavelengths are absorbed by different glass thicknesses is my understanding.

      In addition, the advice I was given was that a larger air gap between the two panes helps reduce the noise levels further.

      I live on a busy road and only cost has prevented me installing double glazing with two glass thicknesses already.

      (Edit: I should add, for anyone who is concerned with aesthetics, uPVC are great for sound reduction but look universally awful to my eye. Personal taste.)

  • Skramit on 14/11/2019 - 14:57

    Sounds like its worth it if you can handle the cost!

  • lainey13 on 14/11/2019 - 20:47
    +2

    Since living in a fully double glazed home I refuse to go back to single glaze. Huge difference in sound proofing and thermal blocking. The difference between hearing that car drive past and not hearing it (unless it's blasting music or throttle). Room temperature doesn't instantly drop/rise when aircon/heater is turned off. You can stand near the window and not feel the heat/cold like you are outside. Such a big difference. However the quality does matter, if it's a very thin space between the panes it doesn't work as well. I found it astonishing when even average quality new buildings don't include it as standard, or do crap like double glaze only one or two windows in a room and the rest are single. Useless then!

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 08:28

      Thanks for the tips

  • RichieRichAus on 15/11/2019 - 09:39

    For sound proofing, you want as large an air gap between the first pane of glass and the second. That's why retro fitting double glazing works so well for sound proofing.

    There's different options than the magnatite, I've used this company recently and I'm very happy with the results

    https://www.soundproofglazing.com.au/

    They're very easy to open and it cut the sound out dramatically. I also replaced the rubber ceils on the existing window as there was an air leak already.

    I recommend checking out the video example on the website which gives a great example.

    Good luck

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 09:40

      Will have a look, thanks.

      • crimsondarkn on 08/07/2021 - 12:05

        What solution did you end up going with? I'm also curious about secondary glazing vs upvc double glazing, and trying to figure out which is better for soundproofing road noise.

    • crimsondarkn on 13/07/2021 - 21:13

      Hey mate,

      Can I PM you about your experience with soundproof glazing? Would like to know more since i'm looking into soundproofing my home.

  • OzHunterNSW on 15/11/2019 - 10:27

    Why not enquire into roller shutters. Keep the noise out, keep the sleep interfering light out, and protect the house when away.

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 10:47

      It's on the list but wife doesn't want anything to alter the look of the front.

    • lainey13 on 15/11/2019 - 22:41

      Does not keep noise out.

  • jonkvh on 15/11/2019 - 12:26
    +1

    Got a bedroom windows done from www.doubleglazed.com PVC with both glass panes being 10mm thickness. They block out 90% of noise plus have a roller shutter. Stuck a huge rug on the opposing wall from rugsamillion to dampen residual noise. You'll sleep a lot better at night. Don't bother with the magnetite stuff, it's only if you can't afford proper double glazing.

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 12:29

      Thanks jon

  • CodeXD on 15/11/2019 - 12:31

    Stick bubble wrap on your windows instead

  • cashless on 15/11/2019 - 13:10
    +2

    Before setting about trying to cure the noise, you need to know what the noise is you're dealing with.
    Railways generate noise in three different ways inside a building.
    1) Direct noise - this is where sound travels directly from the train (usually from the wheel/rail interface) through the air and goes straight into your property.
    It is usually higher frequency (possibly squeal) or mid-range frequency. It can only enter your home if you have direct line of sight of the track/wheels, or there is a perfect reflecting surface enabling sound to carry (e.g. a wall on the other side of the railway to where you live). Important - this is a sound and can only travel through air.
    2) Ground vibration. This is not really a sound or a noise, but is literally a vibration or oscillation, usually experienced because one or more of the surfaces of your building is vibrating. Most often this is the floor, but can be ceilings and walls. Vibration can be both felt and heard and can be very hard to isolate it's source.
    The only cure for this is to isolate the railway at source by using special anti-vibration mounts on the track.
    3) Re-radiated noise (or structural noise). This again is a sound, but it is caused by surfaces (such as wall, windows, floors etc) acting as a daiphragm, a bit like a speaker. The effect is that the vibrating surface radiates noise. You can hear this is if you stand under a railway bridge when a train goes over - lots of radiated noise. It is usually characterised by a low frequency rumble or roar (usually less than 100Hz).

    My advice is to establish the type of noise nuisance that you are experiencing before you go and spend $thousands on new windows which may be ineffective.
    A few easy "free" things you can do are:
    (1) download a "noise" app on your smartphone and measure the level of sound in your house when a train goes by. Do it over and over and get an idea of the noise levels. Important also to measure the noise levels when no trains are present (background noise). The difference in noise is what is annoying. How many decibels are we talking about?
    (2) work out if any surfaces inside your house are actually "rattling" or vibrating when trains pass. Again, you can download a free seismometer app on your phone (for measuring earthquakes). Put the phone on the floor and butt it up against walls and windows when trains go by. Experiment a bit and see if you can tell which surfaces are the worst affected. You should be able to tell the worst cuplrits (which may not be windows).
    (3) Work out which frequencies are the ones that most annoy your girlfriend. Is it high pitched squealing noise? Is it low pitched rumble or roar? Is it broadband frequency? Is it building oscillation?
    If you do the three things above you will have a clear idea of where the noise is coming from and that will lead to you a solution of how to fix it. Beware though, ground vibration can only be fixed by the railway owner.

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 13:59

      Before setting about trying to cure the noise, you need to know what the noise is you're dealing with.

      It's mostly the train toots of the horn.

      2) Ground vibration.

      This is an issue with the deisel freight trains and always will be. I'm not expecting this to disappear with new windows. Luckily these trains are only approx 1 per day and I rarely notice them

      If you do the three things above you will have a clear idea of where the noise is coming from and that will lead to you a solution of how to fix it. Beware though, ground vibration can only be fixed by the railway owner.

      Good advice there thanks. Most of the noise we expect to eliminate is the direct noise of the trains (and some road noise and kids playing out front).

  • superdarkhumour on 15/11/2019 - 13:53

    There are 3 things that you should consider to increase the acoustic amenity of the bedroom:
    1. Source -> Train noise
    2. Sound Path -> Sound coming from the weakest link of the facade, that is, the windows.
    3. Receiver -> Basically you.

    What can you do?
    1. Source -> As posted above, you need to first ascertain the type of train noise you are referring to.
    It can be:
    1. high frequency such as wheel squeals
    2. low frequency such as diesel freight trains
    3. Vibration causing resonance

                  Solutions:
              Nothing that you can control unfortunately.

    1. Path -> Treat the windows, which are considering but may be an expensive exercise.

    2. Receiver -> Use sound masking, to increase the background noise levels in your bedroom at night. You see a lot of people like to leave the fan on at night even on a cold night. This is the fan noise which increases the background noise levels and thus make outside noise less perceivable.

    I suggest maybe try to get a speaker and play white noise at night, see if it improves your sleeping experience first.

    Thank you for reading.

    • MilkDrinker on 15/11/2019 - 13:58

      I thought you were going to imply get a new wife for no 3.

      • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 13:59

        I thought you were going to imply get a new wife for no 3.

        Has been considered.

      • superdarkhumour on 15/11/2019 - 14:01

        Actually I have the perfect plan:
        1. Surprise wife for birthday.
        2. Take her scuba diving at the GBR.
        3. Take flight back straight after.

        Wife will come back half deaf.

        PROBLEM SOLVED, ZERO SUSPICIONS!!

        • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 14:27

          lol

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 14:00

      Thanks.

  • grammarstickler on 15/11/2019 - 14:48

    OP, have you considered replacing the window with glass bricks?

    I have been considering this for a window at our house that looks out onto a busy road. My thoughts are it would drastically reduce noise, screen the traffic, but maintain the light. It would also be fairly cheap compared to double-glazed windows.

    • Skramit on 15/11/2019 - 15:01

      OP, have you considered replacing the window with glass bricks?

      Nah we want a view and I doubt it's feasible for the upstairs windows as it's just that crappy blue board stuff. I doubt glass bricks would be supportable in that structure.

  • rave75 on 15/11/2019 - 14:51

    Maybe get someone that deals with acoustic side of stuff and ask their personal opinion on how to/can you achieve what you want beforehand?

  • lonewolf on 15/11/2019 - 15:38

    Sadly my house was so badly designed (the guy who built it took all the shortcuts and …anyway lots of issues) . My master bedroom has massive windows for the balcony access plus windows elsewhere. In winter time, its extremely noticeable if you decide to get out of the bed on the side closer to the balcony (windows) than the other side. I mean really noticeably colder, plus the balcony is facing the road so a lot of noise from the street travels through there as well. I looked at getting double glazing but it seemed extremely pricey. Only thing i was able to do was get really thick curtains which helped a little but still is cold and a lot of noise but not as bad as before.

  • HeWhoKnows on 15/11/2019 - 21:42

    You will need to install some sort of ventilation system or possibly air conditioning and that will create its own noise.

    So what you gain with one you loose with another.

    Anyway I have seen people simply install a second set of windows inside or outside the existing ones depending on how they are installed.
    This works fine with aluminium windows as they sit either in the inside edge or the outside edge of the wall OR both if you install a parallel set.
    And yes they do work to reduce noise especially if you go for the thicker glass which has better souund proofing properties.

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