Hi there !
I'm looking for recommendations on hospitals/medical centres in Melbourne, Australia that offer step cell therapy/PRP for disc regeneration.
Little bit of background - disc bulge sufferer for the past 4 ~ 5 years. With PT, chiro and other conservative approaches, it has definitely gotten better from what it was initially, BUT there are so many normal things I still cant do. My main pain trigger now in sitting, standing every day at work is starting to take a toll on my knees and legs. I just want my normal life back - if not for me, at least for my 4 month old baby!
I've read a lot and now look at it this way. I see 3 options -
1) Just manage and suffer for the rest of my life and possibly get worse.
2) Go through surgery which can make it worse and has no reset button in case something goes wrong.
3) Spend the money with disc regeneration therapies like PRP/Stem cells and get better or worst case scenario, stay the same.
Thanks.
Stem Cell Therapy/PRP for Disc Issues - Medical Center/Physician Recommendation ?
Comments
Thanks for your reply mate.
I've heard so many horror stories from people who've undergone discectomy, the surgery shaves off the part of the protruding disc and this kinda disturbs the entire spinal structure. This eventually leads to re herniations down the line and people end up with lumbar fusions and its just a downhill spiral from there!
This is the only reason I'm still reluctant to take the surgery route.Im actually a GP - I dont recommend surgical review lightly but if you have had a herniated disc and its still giving you problems 5 years on, non surgical options are not likely to solve the issue. Your spinal column is already compromised, its not going to resolve itself now. A thing to remember, the patient who had a bad experience will get on a soap box and yell to the world how terrible it is, the patient who had a good experience just got on with their life and didnt tell anyone about it.
For every horror story their is a success story though, One of mates on my basketball team is only 34, heriated disc in mid 20's. Developed a pain killer addiction, unable to work properly etc. Had surgery late 20's, now off pain meds, completely pain free, running his own trade business and nearly got MVP in the basketball comp. The surgeon will be able to tell you the stats about success rates and complications, its what they do all day, every day.
(also reading some of your comments below - have you had any imaging done lately of your spine? Sounds likely you may have a element of spinal cord stenosis)
Hi there
Thanks so much for taking time to reply.
You've given me an whole new perspective.Yes, I've had an MRI done recently and it is indicating disc desiccation at L4-L5 with a 4 mm protrusion (broad based central posterior) causing spinal canal stenosis.
This was an herniation about couple of years ago, so there has definitely been some progress (very slow) with the resorption.
Can I ask you for an opinion here - I'm not really sure which specialist to consult next, does it have to be a sports medicine physician or a neurosurgeon or a spine specialist ?
And I'm assuming I would need a GP referral to consult any of these specialists, I will be meeting my GP early this Monday.Thanks again for your post.
Cheers@subsul: Sports Medicine Physician has nothing to offer you - would just be a waste of money.
You wanna see a Neurosurgeon, occasionally a orthopaedic surgeon will specialise in spinal surgery and that'd be fine as well.
You dont need a GP Referral to see them, but if you dont get one you wont be entitled to a medicare rebate… So i'd save myself some money and ask your GP for a referral.I'd recommend doing some research, finding 2 neurosurgeons and get referrals to them both. See both, hear what they say and make your mind up after.
I'm not sure how it works in Victoria but you should be able to phone and ask the radiology company to upload the MRI (and any other images of your spine) to the Neurosurgeon so they can review the film. If you get infront of a Neurosurgeon without a MRI, your consult will last 2 minutes as they fill out a MRI request, send you for a scan then get you back on another date so they can review the imaging…. So what i'm saying is make sure they have access to the imaging electronically before your appointment. Depending on the surgeon, they may or may not accept a DVD with it on it (though they would prefer it electronically)
In the meantime
- Continue to lose weight
- Continue strengthening of core muscles as well as general fitness
- Activity modification, no more heavy lifting, horse riding, motorbikes etcLastly - I've put a shoutout to some Victorian collegaues to see if they can recommend Neurosurgeons over in Vic. If i get any names i'll PM you later on tonight.
Have you considered an advanced exoskeleton, ie becoming some kind of Iron Guy?
Or, for the time being, have you tried one of those kneeling chairs? Might be a good way to get off your feet now and then without ruining your posture.
Hey mate,
Yep, I've been doing the McGill Big 3 and some glute strengthing exercises the past 4 months. My core has definitely gotten stronger, I've shed a lot of kilos and some deep tissue massages at least twice a week. I can see abs defined these days ha ha, one of the few positives from this whole episode. But the slightest shift in posture or even sitting for a mere 5 mins sets off radiating pain down my legs :(
I think you are answering someone else?
Anyway I was referring to one of these as an alternative to a chair. I don't know if they'd be great for long periods, but I've used them a little before and they are pretty comfy.ah yes! just a bit mixed up responding to everyone.
I had to google the usage of this chair and I feel this might just work for me. I feel the knees take most of the load here sparing the spine. I'll give this a try. Thanks for sharing mate.
How much solid exercise have you done as part of your rehab so far?
I've been doing the McGill Big 3 and some glute strengthing exercises the past 4 months. My core has definitely gotten stronger and some deep tissue massages at least twice a week. But the slightest shift in posture or even sitting for a mere 5 mins sets off radiating pain down my legs :(
I understand the desperation but in Australia there are no stem cell treatment for disc issues.
The only thing stem cells can treat in Australia atm is osteoarthritis. There are also no clinical trials for stem cell treatments for disc issues.
I've just done 5 years at uni, covered a fair bit on stem cells. Don't get caught up in the hype. These treatments aren't a miracle and I'd caution pursuing them. The stories of people heading overseas and spending their life savings for no benefit are common.
Speak to a specialist and if they haven't heard of it or can't refer you into a trial, it's the old adage of if it's too good to be true.
Thanks mate, I understand stem cell therapy involves using MSC injections, what do you think about PRP injections ?
From what I've read from Dr Google, they both seem different! I might be completely wrong here.In theory it has a basis behind it, but there is yet to be any proof of clinical efficacy. ie. At the moment it's alot of talk with no real proven results.
I don't want to get you down, but these are unproven treatments that are very expensive and the data in support of them is scarce and dodgy.
My mum has chronic nerve pain, so I know the effect that chronic pain has on daily life. If nothing has worked so far, I'd suggest speaking to your doctor or specialist about seeing if there's a clinical trial you can sign up for. Or perhaps speak to them about the special access scheme for prescription cannabinoids.
Thanks so much for taking time to reply mate.
Chronic pain has a depressing effect on everyday life!I'll be meeting my GP to a referral for a specialist consultation. Hoping things start working out for me.
Thanks again buddy.
Cheers.
Pop a message to these guys, you might also be able to get in on a medical trial.
Stem cell research and application of research in australia is so far behind the rest of the world, you would have to go overseas to seek that treatment which would be out of your own pocket for efficacy.
I'm doing option 1 currently until a better option 3 comes along.
Option 1 is so damn frustrating and depressing mate, I just feel like giving up sometimes.
From the looks of it and what everyone's saying, option 3 is gonna take a pretty long time!Yep I know that feel, had a day off last week because I just couldn't do a thing. Pain laying, sitting or standing, sciatica down the legs. Sometimes can't pick up my 2 year old. Other days it's completely fine. The thing I've found that works the best is valium 5mg. Other things didn't do anything.
My mum has had a ruptured disc and obviously had to have surgery for that, then more surgery's, now has constant nerve pain in arm and neck. I've known other people who had a bulging disc operated on, and say it's the worst decision they made. So no surgery for me until they come up with something better.
Sciatica has such a depressing effect on everyday life, your work life goes for a toss, personal life takes a big hit! I'm just hoping someone discovers some magic drug which'll repair these ruptured discs !
Hang in there tight buddy, just got to stay positive and keep marching forward :)
I feel you OP. I had a double bulge on L5S1 disc and went through option 2 (microdiscectomy) earlier this year after years of suffering. I gave up after trying various therapies (physio, chiro, acupuncture, podiatry, myotherapy, sports massage, traditional therapies, etc) and had enough of the pain so i just went for the operation. I heard a lot of horror stories but i was quite convinced by my surgeon and luckily, i came out fine and i am better now. No more nerve pain but i still get backache (which is expected and explained to me by prior). My road to painless days will be a long one and i hope i will get there one day once i have strengthen my core muscles enough. I wish you all the best regardless of which option you go with.
Thank you so much for your reply buddy.
Yep, I'm staying positive and hoping things work out for me.And yeah, keep at it with the core strengthening routine, that for sure is definitely gonna help support the spine in a big way.
Cheers.
I am having prp for chronic tendonosis in my elbows and left Achilles on my second injections it’s expensive and painful for a couple of days afterwards really can’t say whether it’s working or not but have tried everything else without much success.It may be worth a try I have lower back pain as well if that gets worse I would consider it as an op is vey invasive and not guaranteed to be successful good luck!!
I'll say this. Alot of these novel therapies have shaky evidence base at best (i.e PRP, stem cells etc). Sure they have clinical evidence in certain niches but they are not a miraculous treatment.
When i'd previously given specific information about my domain of knowledge (neurosurgery) i was shot down , so, your best bet would be to go speak to a reputable neurosurgeon and/or pain specialist.
Physical therapy plays a massive role, and if you are young, there is a chance it will recover without intervention, so please don't give up hope (even on the days it appear especially bleak). But given your 5 year history, you need to consider the surgical approach, as delaying it too long could result in the ligaments being impingement (as well as nerve roots) undergoing fibrosis.
Thanks for taking time to reply buddy.
Yes, I've decided to consult a specialist and see how it goes for there !
Staying positive and fingers crossed :)Cheers
If its still impacting you significantly on a daily basis and restricting you i'd do option 2. Even if you dont have private cover it could be worth paying the out of pocket fee, seeing a neurosurgeon or 2 and get their opinion. If you dont have private cover, get your GP to refer you to your local tertiary hospital to be put on a waitlist to see someone, it may take 2-3 years but hopefully eventually you'll get called up.
As for option 3 - Likely expensive and to my knowledge no evidence that it actually works. At best you'll find anecdotal evidence for its use.