Ethics and underhanded buying from Australian retailers

Lcoarselanguage on 02/07/2011 - 10:32

So this is in regards to buying from retailers such as Harvey Norman, Bing Lee, Domayne, JB HiFi, Dick Smith, etc..

Do any of you ever use any underhanded tactics when dealing with these stores?

I have just bought a big ticket electronic item from one of the above and managed to get a significant price reduction. I called the store and said that I had just been to their other store in a different suburb where the item was on sale for $XXX (This was a lie, the other store didn't have it on sale, but they were out of stock) but they had just run out of stock. The store I called said they would match the price without much fuss. They also didn't call the other store to check.

So I ended up getting a significant savings by being somewhat underhanded. I have also heard of friends who have gone into Harvey Norman with a "photoshopped" print out of the JB HiFi website showing a lower price. This has also worked.

Now there is every chance you could get called out doing this, the store could check with the other store, or check online, etc..

But what does everyone think of these tactics? Is all fair in love and bargain hunting?

General Discussion

Comments

  • rack on 02/07/2011 - 10:43

    i believe it's all fair. I went to a good guys store to purchase a food processor. Was in a hurry and didn't have time to shop around. Told them harvey norman has this for this much and got a preety good deal on the item. No questions asked.

  • issh on 02/07/2011 - 11:17

    Haha lol never heard of those, nor have i ever done it

    But, yeah it would work because many stores that pricematch don't actually check the price of it(via the other retailer's website or phoning them)

    • Ughhh on 02/07/2011 - 13:12
      +2

      They probably will check now, once they come across this thread.

  • andy19363 on 02/07/2011 - 11:23
    +6

    Would depend on your own values, conscience, religious beliefs, etc etc

    When we teach our children about right and wrong, 'telling lies' falls into the 'wrong' category. In many circumstances, (fraud, perjury, etc), it also has legal ramifications.

    I sense your actions may have troubled your conscience…. hence your post….. I also sense that is somewhat of a good thing….. :) many would not give it a second thought

    • coarselanguage on 02/07/2011 - 11:34
      +2

      Meh, I'm not troubled at all. I just want to get a sense of what others think. With all of the dodgy practices of the major retailers, consumers need to start doing this just to level the playing field.

      • andy19363 on 02/07/2011 - 12:00
        +2

        I just want to get a sense of what others think.

        why would that make a difference? Dishonesty is dishonesty
        We can certainly search around for justification for our behaviour, (the "everyone else does it" and "they do it, why shouldn't I" arguments are attractive - worked well in Rwanda….).

        Is it something you would be happy your mum, grandad, partner, friends knowing about you?
        If you had a friend who you knew was capable of blatant dishonesty, would that impact on your relationship?, could you trust them?
        Will it impact on your own trustworthiness, integrity, self esteem?
        Can you live with it?
        etc etc

        All are questions to be pondered :)

        Signed : Jiminy Cricket

      • andrew229 on 02/07/2011 - 17:53
        +5

        i wouldnt do what you have mentioned, i am all for haggling, but changing invoices is crossing an ethical line

        whenever i pricematched with shops they always checked the invoice, and if they couldnt get confirmation, or the shop had no stock, they wouldnt price match, so you are relying on those staff that dont check

  • c64 on 02/07/2011 - 11:26

    basically they are not going to sell you something if you are making a loss. they have plenty of margin to play with.

    • lsdbeta on 02/07/2011 - 12:21

      Places like Harvey Norman will happily sell at a loss. They're not in the retail business, they're in the real estate business.

      • teaBagger on 02/07/2011 - 16:55

        The Harvey Norman price model is not your typical business model.
        The franchisee may be selling at a loss but I can assure you Gerry Harvey still makes a profit.

  • coarselanguage on 02/07/2011 - 11:31

    As someone who hates to haggle on price, I find this to be a much easier way of saving cash without having to spend ages talking and negotiating with the salespeople. Also you'll never get them to go below their cost price, but that's obvious. I also think that if you combine these tips with calling the stores before you actually go in, you could probably call 20 stores in half and hour and end up with a decent price somewhere.

    • altomic on 13/07/2011 - 13:01

      google is your friend.

      or getprice.com.au

      prices in seconds. print out the best result and take it in.

      telephony is dead

  • joannatan on 02/07/2011 - 11:55

    mate, why are you talking about ethic with these major retailer? they have mark up their price without thinking about ethic in the first place.

  • Jabba the Hutt on 02/07/2011 - 12:54
    +2

    At an individual level your tactics are a "win" for you and your mates. But more broadly, it drives us further down the cynical society road and undermines criticism of dishonest sales tactics. Complaints become hypocritical and just part of the game - we can all be lying bastards together.

    It will probably encourage lower standards overall. For example, it's not uncommon for customers of computer retailers to damage their new hardware component and dishonestly attempt to return it to the store for a refund/replacement. The retailer on the receiving end forms a more suspicious attitude toward customers, so they give fewer on the spot replacements and customers have to wait longer or have to fight a battle after being refused outright.

    Not claiming any moral high ground here, just giving my humble view on the ethics and consequences.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/07/2011 - 17:21
    +11

    Like everything there are lines that if crossed are going too far.

    Photoshopping an invoice to change a price is breaking that. If everyone did that then stores wouldn't accept photocopies of invoices etc, so now it becomes harder for anyone to get a price match.

    If the store doesn't ring when you say you can get a lower price, thats their choice. Probably it's within their profit margin. Selling at or near cost isn't probably worth it, given they do have some overheads and some commissions to pay.

    So the old I have been quoted better elsewhere is one of the sales ploys that many can use. I know of some stores that deny giving a price lower than list etc if another store calls them, so when the sales person comes back and says that the price cant be verified you are screwed anyway.

  • rack on 02/07/2011 - 18:05

    Oh yeah let's talk about ethics. How does that apply to retailers. I waited at dicksmith to price match some speakers being sold by fluidtek. Even though it was showing in stock online they wouldn't price match cos there's no number. What a bullshit. I didn't buy through fluidtek cos it was out of the way.

  • qazwsx on 02/07/2011 - 19:23
    +5

    Having a poker face and saying you have seen X at Y for $Z is just some good fun bargaining, just like how they will come back to you and say "aww gee that's under cost" when it actually isn't.

    However faking and photoshopping documents for me is pretty poor form. That's a whole different ballgame, and it goes beyond telling little white lies or just stretching the truth.

  • bendertiger on 02/07/2011 - 21:28

    I went into a HN recently, $100 sound system, another person on here said that they saw it for $29 at another HN store.

    So I picked it up, took it to the register, got them to price check it, explained the story. They offered it to me for $69.

    What did I say? 'I can't expect you to do that, it's still out of my price range but I firmly believe in not screwing the retailer'. Put it back on the shelf and bought something cheaper in my price range.

    Keep f**king the retailer and you'll have no choice but to shop online…

    I'm all for fair competition but when you screw too many people over…some start wondering if it's worth the sore arse!

  • Tal_Shiar on 02/07/2011 - 22:40
    +2

    "Ethics and underhanded buying from Australian retailers"

    I think your title should of been "Ethics and underhanded buying by Australian consumers"

  • StewBalls on 02/07/2011 - 23:33

    Don't beat yourself up too much, if they weren't making any money out of the deal a competent salesperson wouldn't have done it!

    Now, if they're incompetent enough to let too many big unverified price drops slide they probably won't be a salesperson there for very long! ;)

  • gamma on 03/07/2011 - 01:15

    nothing against the OP, but these practices probably explain why OfficeWorks guys are so strict about verifying the availability and stocks when price matching even when they can see its price online. When they wasted my time I thought WTF why dont they trust what they see in RetraVision website, but now I can understand why they would want to do that..

    • StewBalls on 03/07/2011 - 01:18
      +4

      No it doesn't…Officeworks are just dicks! :p

  • samfisher5986 on 03/07/2011 - 02:25
    +3

    A little offtopic…

    But IMO I think reducing a price lower then marked price should be banned.

    It would force retailers to lower their prices, and make it a lot more viable for a small business to sell products cheap.

    The whole point of price reductions is to destroy competing business's.

    • bendertiger on 03/07/2011 - 09:28
      +1

      I can remember back in the day I offered a semi-supermarket $15 for Dos 6.22….they said 'No, it says $155 on the package, I won't bargain'.

      Promptly told them to 'F**k off'…

      Yeah…this was when Windows 98 2nd release was selling for $130…

  • chiuy on 04/07/2011 - 17:21
    +6

    It's amusing to see how people will often seek validation for behaviour they 'know' is wrong.

    Coming to OzB and having others justifying dodgy tactics doesn't change the fact you're being dishonest. Make whatever excuses you want. Even if the retailers are dodgy, its hardly appropriate to rip them off.

    Just seems people no longer care so much about doing the right thing, especially if its going to cost them personally. And that's sad.

  • h4lcyon on 04/07/2011 - 19:09
    +2

    Harvey Norman Ethics on display here - thanks to John Howard for the narration :)

  • bendertiger on 04/07/2011 - 20:30
    +1

    The people who use underhanded tactics to absolutely CREAM the retailer…

    Guess who are going to be the first people bitching and moaning when no retailers exist due to them being creamed?

  • quop on 06/07/2011 - 12:12
    +1

    do unto others as you'd like to have done unto you?

    ie. feel free to be underhanded in your conduct if you'd like others to be underhanded in their dealings with you.

    even if you believe that others are already underhanded in their dealings with you, it doesn't mean you have to bring yourself to the same level. then again, if money/possessions is that important to you, why stop at lying?

    there are other ways to save money without being underhanded, eg the union shopper service (unfortunately not available to the general public, but if you happen to be a member or know someone who is, it's great). i bought a replacement electric oven last week:

    • ticketed price at good guys, HN etc was $9xx (not including delivery)
    • best price i found online (applianceonline) was $7xx (free delivery)
    • union shopper got one for me for another $150 off my best price, including delivery

    i don't know if using underhanded tactics with say HN would have resulted in a better price outcome (~$350 reduction plus get delivery included), but both my wallet and my conscience are happy. (my wife's happy too with the new oven, but that's not bargain related :p)

  • Tenebrae on 07/07/2011 - 16:55

    This is an objective ethical question, pertaining to objective ethical principles, and therefore the answers cannot be said to depend on variable religious or ethical beliefs. The whole point of ethics is determining what is objectively right or wrong, regardless of the variable perspectives of observers.

    I think the basic principle that must be accepted is balancing the desire for a positive outcome with adherence to the truth - it's fair to say you've seen retailer X sell object Y for $Z even if their promotion ended last week, or they were out of stock, but it's totally different to actively deceive the retailer with doctored screenshots (lovingly known as "fraud") and blatant lies.

    Yes, retailers sometimes don't verify their matched prices, and that's negligence on their part. We consumers should feel no guilt or responsibility for the retailer's lack of diligence. However, deliberately defrauding them for the sake of maximising our profit lands the burden of ethical responsibility squarely into our own laps.

  • morpheu on 09/07/2011 - 16:24

    in a nutshell, sales figures are down, people need to spend more to keep/create jobs in our economy, retailers should be happy to sell as long as they don't go below cost price, as for photoshopped receipts/ads that's going over the line, simply because if it becomes widespread retailers won't accept them any more for price matching, fake or genuine! everytime i asked OW for a PM they checked the price and stock which is what they should all do, ironically it's the lazy retailers who don't check that shoot themselves in the foot because someone else can use that receipt to PM elsewhere

  • h4lcyon on 09/07/2011 - 17:35

    I've price matched HN without stock to another HN with stock, or against a price someone else got on WP. I figure if they can sell it at that price they well, if not I'll get denied.

    Most people don't like the embarrassment of being rejected, which in turn means they are not all that keen to bargain.

    Although this is OzB and most people here will bargain in some form, I don't think this is really the case for many people outside of this forum who just compare ticketed prices from different companies and buy from the one that is $50 cheaper.

    Doctoring receipts, is probably only one up from making up a price match price, but again the retailer can always refuse to sell to you at that price.

    At the end of the day it's just a reflection of where you moral compass points.

    • Trance N Dance on 09/07/2011 - 19:52

      Isn't making up a receipt or faking a price constitute fraud?

      • samfisher5986 on 09/07/2011 - 22:35
        +1

        As far as I know the simple act of faking any type of price matching is completely fine, as mentioned its their choice if they will honour it, its basically haggling.

        However I think faking a receipt from a shop would be fraud if the shop didn't give you permission to do so.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2011 - 01:27

    You can't bitch about retailers misleading you if you are misleading them.

    To me, telling a lie to price match and faking an advertisement to price match are exactly the same thing… albeit one is verbal, the other is written.

    I sleep better at night with that belief anyway.

  • altomic on 14/07/2011 - 14:30

    the old better pricing game is good.
    go to retailer X get their best price.
    go to retailer Y get them to beat it.
    go back to X to beat it or go to Z to see if they will beat it.

    I used this to buy a 395L westinghouse fridge for $5 above cost with free delivery

    • bendertiger on 15/07/2011 - 00:48

      The 'almost no profit' trick…I hate when people pull that crap on me…

      • altomic on 15/07/2011 - 12:56

        I actually knew the cost price as a friend worked in whitegoods and had it on hand.

    • h4lcyon on 15/07/2011 - 15:34

      It's a time proven strategy, nobody ever gives their best price the first time. I've used this for everything from tree lopping (quotes from $1.5k to 4.5k), to electronics and hiring vehicles.

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