Should Merchants Be Allowed to Post Deals in OzBargain?

scotty on 03/05/2007 - 23:54

Hi all. This is meant to be a request for comment. So please give us your feedback, and hopefully make OzBargain a better place :)

The question for today is, should merchants be allowed to post deals in OzBargain?

In the past the answer has been Yes. There are quite a few merchants that post their latest deals and promotions here. Many of them are using a handle that shows they are representing the company. For example, Deals Direct, Nintek, Direct Perfume, etc. Some use a random handle, but do claim to be a company rep in posting. Some however, utilise viral marketing, pretending to be a customer and recommend his/her own company.

Now, should we let this continue? What are the pros and cons?

Pros

  • They do the work. Not me.
  • We get to know the promotion or products on special with all the details.
  • Sometimes we do get exclusive deals.

Cons

  • Can be too commercial or too spammy.
  • The shop can be dodgy, and we would not want to recommend their product even if they are cheap.
  • They sometimes post deals that are actually not cheap.

I think viral marketing is a definite no no here. A community builds itself on trust, and viral marketing destroys this trust, as we don't know whether that individual is giving a comment, or is just trying to make a sale.

What do you think?

Site Discussion

Comments

  • cacbm on 04/05/2007 - 16:04

    I reckon they should be allowed if, and it's a big if, they are genuine bargains. Although there's the usual issue of "what is a bargain?" but I think we can spot one if we see it.

    I think Nintek is a bit suspicious. I just had a quick check and they have posted 13 "bargains" (one under the name 'brad'). Most of them has two votes plus so they were on the front page. However, they only attracted three comments from those 13 "bargains".

    Comment 1 is "This is $90 more expensive than Fluidtek - WHAT A CRAP DEAL NINTEK", comment 2 is "Not much of a bargain, even with the LIAN LI case, since it only comes with a 7900 Gs." And the other one is Scott questioning the value of upgrading network cable.

    I don't think they are genuine bargains from my limited knowledge of computer parts, but judging from the comments and/or the lack of comments, I don't think I'm wrong.

    I don't think that would do their reputation any good but there might be people who think that they represent good bargain and purchase from them simply because they are on OzBargain.

    Scott, I think what you should do is increase the amount of votes that is needed for a bargain to be on the front page. And if people really think that they are genuine bargains, they would vote for it and it would be on the front page. And stop companies like Nintek posting "bargains" unless they are really bargains without the inverted commas.

    Unless they were really bargains and I misunderstood them.

    Alan

    • scotty on 04/05/2007 - 16:27

      Thank you very much for the comment.

      Action point:

      • Increasing number of votes required to get onto front page. (Easily configurable)
      • List out who actually voted. I think it will make spotting "gaming the system" easier.

      Again, it can sometimes be difficult to judge what is bargain and what is not. For products I might want to add price comparison links if it can be automated, so people can easily verify whether it is indeed a good buy.

      Nintek/Nindeal does have some cheap deals every now and then, but I think many people have problems with them due to their bad customer service.

  • moo on 06/05/2007 - 13:36

    I agree with the majority of the points mentioned above. Though I somehow feel that the 'bargains' posted should be a decent deal that is significantly cheaper than the normal price, rather than a 'bargain' price that always remain the same after X period. In addition to the cons scotty have outlined above, the other one I would like to add is 'defamation'. From experience, sometimes merchant's post may attract comments which may defamatory in some ways. Therefore you may wish to have some sort of agreement/clause which will protect OzBargain from any legal issues.

    A few suggestions -
    <ul>
    <li>1. Poster is unable to vote on their own thread (The votes can be slightly more genuine then)</li>
    <li>2. Merchant posts is on a seperate column/table rather in grouped together with the standard bargains and they must be 'exclusive' deals. eg. ones where you enter a promotional code such as 'ozbargainspecial' for the readers of OzBargain.</li>
    </ul>
    I'll think of more when I get a few beers down.. :)

    • scotty on 07/05/2007 - 10:46

      <blockquote>From experience, sometimes merchant's post may attract comments which may defamatory in some ways. Therefore you may wish to have some sort of agreement/clause which will protect OzBargain from any legal issues.</blockquote>

      Definitely something I need to watch out for. I can be a difficult situation — sometimes you can't even yell out "spam! spam!" because of potential defamatory issues. And we are not even talking about possible bad blood between merchants and their customers causing flame wars on OzBargain.

      Anyone got a good lawyer friend here? :)

  • neil on 06/05/2007 - 21:10

    We need a negative button. Democracy in action. There are some things that are posted on here that I would give a big negative to.

    If you allow companies to post their own deals, which I think borders on SPAM, then they should at least post with an official name.

    • scotty on 07/05/2007 - 10:33

      Yes — negative voting is in the works. I think it is more than reducing the number of votes (say, casting a -1 vote), but to signal a "bargain" as questionable, lame, dodgy or spam. Currently (with my limited time) I am rewriting the code for posting deals. It was done in an "obsoleted" Drupal module (or rather, not been kept up to date). After that, I will get the reporting functions working.

      Meanwhile, please contact me (using the contact form) about any questionable items posted.

      Also I agree on companies should post with an official name. It is also possible to give them custom ranks to make them easily identifiable. However, how to spot them, especially the dodgy one, in the first place can be difficult. You get people creating a new account, and saying "got this great deal from this great shop, highly recommended!" They might be genuine, but might be not.

      I was hoping the social/collaborative voting can filter out the good from bad, but so far I think OzBargain does not yet have the momentum (or enough people voting) to make that happen.

      • cacbm on 07/05/2007 - 14:33

        Yeah I think the lack of enough people voting is an issue. I know most of the time I don't vote, even if I think they are good bargains. Maybe you can encourage people (maybe by saying "Please vote for the bargains you like" at the most obvious spot of the website.) to vote for bargains that they think are good or genuine bargains.

  • John on 07/05/2007 - 15:32

    What about changing the voting method with most viewed? or adding it as a feature..

    I'm not an expert with programming.. but if its possible to have a view count by counting one view per IP address, it would atleast eliminate the possibilities of one person signing in with different user account to vote.

    The number of views would reperesent how popular is that bargain in particular. Thus, if it's a total crap people wouldn't wanna look at it (or click at the external link, if it's a more reliable way of counting the popularity).

    This might not be the best idea and it still need to be reviewed, but I just feel the need to mention it. :)

    • scotty on 07/05/2007 - 16:05

      John — thanks for the comment.

      A change to the front page is in the works (actually, I mean only in my head) to calculate the "score" more appropriately. Things to consider:

      1. Not all votes are the same. Older votes value less.
      2. Older posts also value less to make the front page "fresh" (which is already the case currently).
      3. Other metrics including (1) click in's to individual pages (2) click through's to the actual bargain (3) number of comments, etc.

      Limiting by IP addresses can be tricky, as the poor guys who are behind proxy servers (TPG & Curtin universion :) get discriminated.

      Well, I have just discovered another merchant impersonating customers posting deals (3 logins + 1 anonymous comment!) I can only see the rate increasing as this site gets more popular. :(

      • moo on 07/05/2007 - 18:16

        What if all listings go into a moderation queue which can't be viewed until it is checked and approved by moderators. That way if a 'bargain' borders on spam, it probably won't appear on the site at all. This can also prevent someone from going in and posting abusive posts and spam.

  • DorsVenabili on 08/05/2007 - 01:33

    I really do not think merchants should be allowed to post here at all. As the site grows, more and more merchants will see it as an opportunity for "free" advertising, and will probably post anonymous deals, as mentioned above. The moderation queue is a good idea, but then that would perhaps discourage newbies from posting… ?

    Another drawback of the moderation queue would be if someone found an amazing deal which was only available for a very short period of time… people might miss out on the deal in the time frame for getting the deal approved.

    • scotty on 08/05/2007 - 13:52

      <blockquote>Another drawback of the moderation queue would be if someone found an amazing deal which was only available for a very short period of time.</blockquote>

      I think that was my main concern as well. For a small site like OzBargain we probably don't have enough resource to ensure the moderation queue is checked 24x7. A lot of merchants only announce their "special promotion" like 2am in the morning, and the promotion expires on the same day! So I would love to have them appear on OzBargain sooner rather than later so people won't miss out.

      Also note that there's a differences between programming/development and policy setting. Well, what I am trying to say is, there are some things that can be done as a "functionality" of the site to prevent fraud, spam, viral marketing with bad faith, etc. However, it is also possible to come up with a "policy".

      For example, if I say, "all merchants must post using the merchant's name, otherwise user will be banned and posts will be deleted". It becomes a policy of this site and will be enforced by the admins/moderators.

      So, what I will be trying to do this week is coming up with policies for submitting posts, commenting, user registrations, and update our Terms of Services to reflect that. I will post a few Request For Comments in the forum for discussion, before I make them permanent.

  • neil on 08/05/2007 - 22:46

    You need to get on Today Tonight/ACA. That will bring in hoards of cheapos.

  • DorsVenabili on 19/05/2007 - 06:20

    <blockquote>You need to get on Today Tonight/ACA. That will bring in hoards of cheapos.</blockquote>

    Cheapos!! Is that what you call us honest bargain hunters trying to save a cent or two!!

    • scotty on 22/05/2007 - 22:12

      I think it is like being called a "nerd". The word itself has a bit of negative connotation — someone who is so much into a specific niche. Cheapo is like a nerd, who is so much into getting cheapies and freebies and finding all the bargains. Cheapos also attract each other and form a community (thus this website!!), and so are the nerds.

      And we all know that it is somehow cool to be called a nerd in the 21st century. So maybe being called a cheapo is not that bad after all :)

  • ssmith3104 on 30/09/2007 - 19:29

    Merchants should be allowed to post but such postings should have a special icon or something to show members that they are in that category of listing. I suggest that merchant postings also have a short validity time, and be auto-removed at that interval. (the merchant can re-post if they want)

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