Problems with YAMAHA Bluetooth Headphones stuttering? (HPH-W300)

• 

  garetz on 14/08/2019 - 19:13

  You need to get warranty.

  • 

    pinchies on 14/08/2019 - 19:15

    Unfortunately, the YAMAHA warranty is only one year, and it was purchased over one year ago. I'm currently trying to find out my options under consumer law.

    I'm especially interested if this is a one off issue, or if it has happened to any others with these headphones too.

    • 

      garetz on 14/08/2019 - 19:19

      +1

      Just mention your consumer rights guarantee, you should be getting at least 2 years warranty if its over $100 purchase price.

      i'm not a fan of yamaha in general, they did do great amps.

      The reviews are good, maybe you just got a lemon/unlucky.

      • 

        pinchies on 14/08/2019 - 20:21

        I figured that regardless of the discount, the discount was not provided due to any lack of quality (e.g. not a scratch and dint sale), they are normally $250 headphones - and $150 is still nothing to sneeze at, so 1 year life seems unreasonable to me under consumer law. YAMAHA's tech support phone was extremely cagey about everything related to ACL, would promise nothing. Was not impressed.

        This is the second time I have been burned by them. I used to use the YAMAHA HTH-MT220 which were simply outstanding, but the leatherette pads flaked to bits and they don't sell replacement pads! Not having replacement parts available for a reasonable length of time is also a violation of the ACL. :(

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  thebadmachine on 15/08/2019 - 00:32

  +2

  Hi, since you mentioned they work fine with your phone, I would expect the issue to be with the Bluetooth transmitter in your PC / iMac.
  As far as I know the main use case for Bluetooth headphones is with a portable device, and therefore I expect they are optimised specifically for that use.
  I am aware some people using their Sony XM3 Headphones’s with their TV, and in this case they purchased a Taotronics Bluetooth transmitter to make the connection.

  I recently purchased Sony Bluetooth earphones and they produce a quiet ‘hiss’ when they are ‘on’ and this is how I am able to tell if they are ‘on’ or in ‘standby’.
  When connected to a portable device (iPad), the earphones will go into ‘standby’ mode when you pause / stop the video, the quiet ‘hiss’ goes away within 1 second of pausing a video, meaning the earphones have gone into ‘standby’ mode to preserve battery.
  I imagine there is a signal from the iPad to the Bluetooth earphones which tells them to go into standby, or it simply does so when the audio signal has been stopped.

  To conclude, I imagine there is some compatibility issue / bug where your PC / iMac in an attempt to preserve power is sending a signal telling your headphones to go into ‘standby’ and your headphones are having trouble reacting to what your computer wants the headphones to do.
  I would look into the Bluetooth options on your computer, maybe there is a setting where you can disable ‘conserve power’ or ‘low power mode’ for the Bluetooth transmitter inside the PC / iMac (when disabled your computer would maintain a live signal with your Bluetooth headphones at all times).

  If the Bluetooth power conservation setting is dependant on the headphones, there is a chance a newer dedicated Bluetooth transmitter could improve things.
  My advice would be to get one which has a 3.5mm aux input (plug the computer headphone output into here).

  Edit: If you would like to perform a test from a local bread & mortar. I recommend this product for $34 @Officeworks.
  You will also need a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable to connect to your PC’s headphone output.
  I have heard this product specifically is notorious for maintaining a Bluetooth connection (so much so it bothers people), apparently once paired & in range it will always connect to the paired device and over-ride all other pairings within range.
  If the issue continues, you can return the product with the same claims you made in your original post.

  • 

    pinchies on 15/08/2019 - 01:35

    First, thanks for your suggestions. I actually already have numerous bluetooth sources to test with, and I've used a number of other bluetooth headphone models (Meizu ep52, Sony XM3) without any issue on the computer too. Unfortunately, I just have a lack of time to waste on a diddling with a disappointingly dodgy device…

    I have observed what you talk about with the AMP/DAC noise floor being audible temporarily after playback stops playing. I'm 100% on the same thought pattern as you. I wonder if this is a compatibility issue that only occurs with computers (mac or PC), likely because of the very different playback that occurs on a computer compared to on mobile. On mobile, playback is usually continuous song after song with fewer interruptions, whereas on PC/mac we see that active/standby cycle happen after every single alert, user interface click etc. I suspect there may be some bug or software limit to the number of standby/active cycles, after which the headphones misbehave? I'm doing more investigation and testing with an iPhone next to see if that theory holds true or not…

    I have contacted a YAMAHA service centre and am pursuing options — ozbargain is not really my normal avenue for seeking tech support! The main reason for my post here was that I just was curious if anyone else had the same problem, especially as I noticed one commenter from the same deal also mentioned that they experienced a audio stuttering problem as well.

    • 

      thebadmachine on 15/08/2019 - 14:51

      +1

      In the comment you linked, one person claims they had the issue and it was resolved by updating the Bluetooth drivers on the computer (possibly older drivers are less compatible with newer devices).

      This makes it more likely a compatibility issue on the computer’s end, rather than an issue with the headphones (although it may seem that way since the Yamaha’s issue is isolated).
      Think about it this way, it may be a specific combination of codec + Bluetooth version (Apt-X + BT4.2) which the computer’s built-in transmitter has an issue with, and was eventually fixed with a driver update.

      On mobile, playback is usually continuous song after song with fewer interruptions

      In my experience a smart-device has just as many ‘interruptions’ (on/standby cycles) as a computer.
      When I turn my BT earphones for the first time when beginning to use them, the hiss is there, but as soon as the connection is established it goes silent (standby).
      Also I when watching on the YouTube app, and you are pausing / playing, or having a video finish & stop then browsing for your next video, the BT earphones go silent (into standby) as well.
      So in my experience it is very often (many cycles) even on a portable device.

      • 

        pinchies on 15/08/2019 - 15:55

        Thanks for your suggestions. I did see that commment, and it would be interesting to hear more about where they got those drivers originally, and where they got the updates from too.

        Unfortunately I don't really see any way to update the drivers on my machines. On the iMac, the built-in bluetooth device drivers are provided by Apple, and I was running the latest OS, so that was not a solution available to me. On my PC with windows 10, the driver was automatically detected and installed when I inserted the dongle, so it presumably is the latest version? The chipset is broadcom, and they say on their support page that drivers "should be available through Microsoft's Windows Update service", and my PC is up to date.

        I deliberately did that cycling on my phone for a long time, and I could not get the issue to reoccur, so that support the theory that it is a device specific compatibility issue. I've ordered another bluetooth dongle with an entirely different chipset so I will see if that results in any difference in the results. Will be interesting to see.

        The issue of compatibility is very frustrating and frankly, ridiculous - this is the kind of thing that has given bluetooth a bad reputation, and it defeats the whole point of having standards if there are obscure exceptions to the rule like this.

        Like I said below, since I've had the issue occur on two different devices so far, and those devices have not had problems with any other bluetooth devices (including other headphones) to date, it looks like it's the headphones that are at fault here.

        • 

          thebadmachine on 15/08/2019 - 16:17

          +1

          @pinchies:

          this is the kind of thing that has given bluetooth a bad reputation

          Yes I agree.

          have not had problems with any other bluetooth devices (including other headphones) to date, it looks like it's the headphones that are at fault here.

          You may think so, but from Yamaha’s end it may be a very isolated issue (therefore their perceived approach of ‘brushing you off’ or being vague about ACL).
          A quick search online regarding your issue yielded zero results (only your ozb post) which leads me to believe it is a very rare issue.
          I am just stating this, as even if you manage to get a brand-new replacement from Yamaha, the issue may still continue.

          Seems like troubleshooting is the way to go, the new BT transmitter sounds like a good start.

          • 

            pinchies on 15/08/2019 - 16:56

            @thebadmachine: The thing is, YAMAHA themselves probably has actually very very little to do with the bluetooth sides of things. Most of these bluetooth chips are made by one of only about five manufacturers (CSR/Qualcomm, Widcomm/Broadcom, Realtek, TI, Nordic Semi) and the chips are basically available as ready to go solutions off the shelf. For this reason, if there was a compatibility problem with these headphones, it would likely also exist in other headphones from other brands that use the same chipset with similar configurations. When I google for "bluetooth headphones stutter OR choppy" and browse the results, I found a number of people reporting identical symptoms with different headphones from different brands.

            Thanks for your input, I'll probably report back here after I test more combinations and configurations of devices, and try to find more easily repeatable triggers.

• 

  HighAndDry on 15/08/2019 - 10:11

  +1

  All the symptoms point to a software issue… though:

  When playing a video the video plays slowly, almost like the video is being interrupted by a pause signal and then resumed a fraction of a second later, repeatedly.

  This makes it seem like there might be an issue with the touch controls. Is there something particular about how you use them when using them with the Mac/PC (e.g. lying on your side) which might be triggering the touch controls? Because if it's pausing video, that's not just playback, but the headphones sending commands to the Mac/PC.

  Or it could be a bluetooth issue - do you know what version Bluetooth your Mac/PC uses, as compared to the other devices you're using with the headphones?

  • 

    pinchies on 15/08/2019 - 10:19

    I have confirmed this is not an issue with the touch controls. I use them at my desk without ever touching the controls. I actually used the headphones so infrequently that I didn't even realise there were touch controls until last week! I almost exclusively use the source device to control the volume and playback.

    On my PC now I have a bluetooth 4.0 USB dongle, and on the iMac it was also Bluetooth 4.0. On my iPhone SE it is Bluetooth 4.2. I'm not sure of the significance of that difference with regard to this issue.

    I also did extensive testing yesterday with said iPhone, toggling play pause and other things, and could not get the issue to occur.

    It does sounds like a software issue, but seeing as it happens only with these headphones, and happens on both Mac and PC, I'm putting the blame squarely on the headphones for being at fault. When the stuttering audio (or video) playback happens, if I turn the bluetooth headphones off, the audio output on the PC switches to the next source, and playback continues perfectly without any stuttering.

    • 

      HighAndDry on 15/08/2019 - 10:27

      +1

      Yeah there isn't that much of a difference between BT4.0 and 4.2, certainly not to the point of 4.0 being unusable.

      Have you been able to replicate the issue with other PCs or Macs? Maybe also try updating (or rolling back) firmware and see if that helps. (Honestly just spitballing).

      • 

        pinchies on 15/08/2019 - 10:41

        I replicated it with my old iMac and the current PC, nothing else so far. I've ordered a different USB bluetooth dongle that uses a different chipset to see if that makes any difference. Unfortunately I don't see any firmware options for the headphones nor the computer.