$448 Penalty For "Drive without Proper Control of Vehicle"

ash79 on 18/06/2019 - 23:40
Last edited 19/06/2019 - 00:20

It rained previous night, while I was driving to work, I was stopped by a police car with ticket of $448 and 3 demerit points with offence as "Drive without proper control of vehicle".

This is what happened:
I turned right on a signal while signal was green, road was clear no vehicle in the front or back. Car was under speed limit (Police officer confirmed this). After I turned right, my car skidded, due to wet road but I controlled it quickly and no harm done to myself, car or the road. After couple of minutes I found a police car chasing me and stopped me to fine.

While talking to police officer, told him several times that car skidded due to bad weather condition but he didn't listen to any of my argument and was pretty adamant to the point that "provided there are cars beside or behind you could have had hit, and it's a clear case of negligence driving". In addition to this I also told officer that I have been a decent driver for last 5 years without any penalty or demerit points, but he didn't listen any of my arguments.

The office told me that the incident was recorded in the camera fitted in their car, for which, I believe I need to goto police station to check the video clip of the incident. What do you guys think of my chance at court if I want to have the penalty decided in court?

Poll Options

  • 388
    Take this penalty to court
  • 7
    Apply leniency
  • 184
    Pay the fine and move on
Automotive

Comments

  • andyhui01 on 19/06/2019 - 09:56
    +10

    "Car was under speed limit (Police officer confirmed this)"

    Doing speed limit has nothing to do with car control. This is what decades of media has brainwashed us with, being a good drive = not speeding. There is so much more to this.

    Pay the fine and move on, you did lose control of the vehicle (Weather has nothing to do with it). If you don't understand why or how that happened, instead of asking the police for a chance, you are better off giving yourself one and doing a defensive driving course.

  • wannagrababargain on 19/06/2019 - 10:10
    +14

    I think $448 is a morally obscene amount to pay for this small indiscretion. I would take it to court to at least try to get a smaller fine.

    • Daniel Plainview on 19/06/2019 - 10:22
      +3

      As the infraction is one thats able to be applied to a range of behaviours - it's POSSIBLE it is at the high end if it was just a minor and avoidable skid.

      That said I think it's human nature to understate things so that their side sounds better and more plausible - and with respect I think the OP is clearly doing that.

      Only the Police officer and them knows exactly what happened so its really simple - if the OP feels it was such a benign and minor slide - and their driving could not reasonably be blamed for this - THEN yes, use your right to and go to court and appeal this.

      But I believe if you do this and the infraction is upheld - then you'll wear court costs as well. But thats their risk vs reward….but given they feel so strongly that they're hard done by sure they should go. :-)

      I get that it sounds like a lot for a small offence - but I would imagine that Police officer has been working traffic long enough to have seen the consequences of motor vehicles colliding and knows that if a driver feels its ok to drive like that on wet nights around a corner then it's plausible they'll think it's ok to do this and more at other times - and it just takes one time for this to end up in much more than just a skid. So they likely have very little sympathy for letting folks off as they know it's perhaps the only way the majority will learn.

      It's a bitter pill to swallow but on the upside the fine is $0 if you don't lose control of your vehicle, so pretty simple choice IMHO.

      PS. And look seriously it sounds like the OP is generally a good driver - I think they said they've been driving 20yrs+ and never had a demerit point? So really if this is the case they're they type of driver where the system should be used and they should ATLEAST ask for the fine to be reduced or waived due to their good driving record. This is fair and the system is there to support them do this. I can understand it might have been a momentary loss of concentration - which doesn't excuse it - but I think it's rough to do one thing wrong and cop a big fine - so if this is the case, I think the OP is justified in wearing whatever is right for the infraction (as you can't appeal this on the basis of a good driving record) but you can ask for whatever penalty is applied to be reduced/waived based on your long term good record. :-)

      • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 20:55
        +4

        I somewhat agree with you Nikko.

        If I put myself under shoes of a watcher of this incidence I might think differently. I accept that I loose control and experienced car skidding but at the same time I was feeling it's not severe enough, the skid was confined within my lane, skid didn't even make car jumps to the other lane.

        I recently renewed my license by taking 50% off on fee with 0 demerit points, what a matter of pride, which, now turning to a weird kind of feeling (feeling like a criminal .. lol)

        • mrvaluepack on 20/06/2019 - 06:07
          +1

          I recently renewed my license by taking 50% off on fee with 0 demerit points

          Wow didnt know such a thing existed in NSW, no such thing in VIC :(

      • wannagrababargain on 20/06/2019 - 11:15

        I was not advocating to have the infraction wiped out. I was simply arguing that it would be justified to plead "guilty" to the infraction and ask for a smaller "sentence."

        I disagree that the police officer is a rational actor. They're always going to try on something for size and try to hit you with the maximum penalty they think will stick. They will come up a lot of BS too like "you could have" or "you should have" but that is all just heresay. Stick to the facts is all I'm saying.

    • spackbace on 19/06/2019 - 10:35
      +1

      This would be a pre-hoon law fine, something that was reserved for drifting and burnouts before hoon laws came out.

      Obviously the cop didn't wanna hit OP with the hoon law fines (might involve tougher penalties?) so used this one instead

      It's a deterrent fine

  • Euphemistic on 19/06/2019 - 10:25
    +3

    So it’s an outlander. AWD or FWD? What was the skid? Front wheels or rear wheels, how long did the skid last?

    It’s a bit rough string a fine for a minor skid, but thems the rules. It is possible the road had some oil or something on it. There is A couple of sections of road locally that have had a surface treatment because they were extra slippery in the wet, the local McDonald’s fence used to get taken out every time it rained as people came out of a roundabout and lost it. Now the surface had been replaced with a non slip type you can take the roundabout at a higher speed.

    I own a Ute with all terrain tyres. In the wet I have to be extra careful not to break traction because it is light weight back end, rear wheel drive, turbo diesel and manual. Occasionally I hit a section of road that is more slippery than expected and I end up with a slide that is quickly controlled. I’d hate to think I’d cop a fine for that, unlike when sometimes I provoke a controlled slide for fun.

    • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 20:59

      Front wheel .. its 4WD and I was driving in 4WB auto mode

      • Forskin on 20/06/2019 - 06:42
        +1

        geez you must have snapped second pretty hard to light em up in that car

      • Euphemistic on 20/06/2019 - 07:24

        What happened in the skid? Which wheels skidded and how did you have to correct it?

      • bugman on 20/06/2019 - 10:35
        +1

        if you have the turbo Diesel model I could see this happening in the wet, I have driven this model and there is a massive turbo lag from a complete stop. put your foot down nothing nothing and then it would kick in around 10kmh all of a sudden. I hated driving this car going into a busy roundabout.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/06/2019 - 10:31

    You argued with the police officer?

    https://tenor.com/view/yoda-that-is-why-you-fail-starwars-gi…

  • ShahAU786 on 19/06/2019 - 11:00

    May be it is a sign that you driffting Outlander needs tyres? I drive Honda Accord, changed tyres 3 months ago as I knew this wet weather will be a disaster and previous tyres gave me almost decent 80,000 kms. Be Safe. —- About the fine, I think the cop was there and it was your bad luck and bad timing, that's all. You can take it to the court, take a day off from work, what are the chances of winning? 50%? Other 50% still says you will end up paying the fine (and may be legal fees too? not sure on this part). Cheers.

    • Daniel Plainview on 19/06/2019 - 13:48

      You might be right - as the OP did state that the Officer had to 'measure' whether the OP's tyre's were still legal - which implies to me that they were pretty well worn.

      Now personally I've always thought that trying to squeeze every last bit of 'legal' mileage out of a tyre before it's deemed unusable is a complete fools errand and false economy. At any given point in time there's only a few square inches of rubber making contact between your 1500kg+ of metal thats hurtling along at breakneck speed - so to save whats effectively a measly couple of dollars (as % of use left vs original purchase price) is crazy.

      Others might disagree but I replace my tyres well before they're 'illegal'. Furthermore I always make sure I don't cheap out on the tyres used - they generally last for several yrs so paying extra for tyres that are KNOWN to be good in both wet and dry is vastly superior to taking a lucky dip on a 'never heard of it' Chinese brand.

      $448 would likely go a long way towards 4 new quality tyres + wheel alignment - so saving a few $$$ on older tyres and/or cheap ones sounds like it might have been a factor.

      But these are all factors every driver knows and are within solely their control - so isn't something one can 'blame' later. :-/

      • ShahAU786 on 20/06/2019 - 10:02

        I got your point of view. Totally agree. When I replaced my tyres, they were still "very legal". Couple of times I am a the traffic lights and on green my tyres started loosing grip, that was the point I decided to replace it. Got Michelin Energy XM2, so far so good. Done 12k kms already. Nice pick up on up hill traffic lights in my area.

      • lysp on 20/06/2019 - 13:24

        Measuring would be for evidence gathering.

        Even if they looked fine, if they get asked about it later in court they have an answer for the question.

    • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 22:00
      +1

      It's not about penalty. Couple of months ago I renewed my licence with 50% off on fees due to no demerit points. After this incidence all the joy and pride of that 50% reward is blown away with a weird feeling. (Feels like a criminal).

      • ShahAU786 on 20/06/2019 - 10:03

        I feel for you. I am due for my licence renewal next year, so far so good. :) (touch wood) just be sure about if you need new tyres.

  • quarkgun on 19/06/2019 - 11:12
    +31

    Wow there's a bunch of nanny state puppets on these forums. If you believe you were driving to conditions, and the slide was unintentional i'd take it to court just on principle. Shit like this happens sometimes, regardless of how careful a driver you are. I've spun 180 degrees in the wet doing ~40kph (60 zone) around a <30 degree corner - total surprise (but soon after changed to better wet weather tyres). At the time, I had over 20 years driving experience and had done both defensive and advanced driver training… like i said - sometimes shit happens. To accept a fine and demerit points because an overzealous cop wants to make you pay, well, I find that personally offensive.

    • lltravel on 19/06/2019 - 15:32

      quarkgun you're probably the smartest one here tbh.

      People are oblivious to their rights and give this away like nothing.

    • Chris12345 on 19/06/2019 - 16:13
      +11

      I do find that the OzB forums is populated with the most uptight, straight laced, dour group of people.

      • YellowDieselGolf on 19/06/2019 - 20:21

        Yep. Go ANYWHERE else to seek driving or car advice.

        Unless you want to buy a camry or corolla. If so, you’re in the right place.

      • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:52

        I think I know why but I think it would be a bit offensive to say.

    • rlay3 on 19/06/2019 - 21:10

      Agree with this comment and the replies. The judgments are incredible.

  • jacross on 19/06/2019 - 11:16
    -3

    Every single one of your arguments is irrelevant.

    If you skid, you don't have control.

    I've skidded, slightly, once, at low speed, in my 20 years of driving. It was a wake up call, not an opportunity to whinge.

    I don't know what your should do about the fine because I have no data on success rates of challenges and leniency requests. Apparently neither does anyone else here.

    • Euphemistic on 19/06/2019 - 16:07

      if you skid, you don’t have control

      I’d like to see a perfect ‘never ever skidded’ driver handle a surprise skid. You need to experience it sometimes, in a safe environment to learn how to handle it. You need to know what the limits of traction feels like to be able to handle those surprise situations and the only way to find that out is to push it to far sometimes.

      We need more defensive driving training to be part of getting a licence, not just a 3 point turn and a hill start. I am often surprised at how people can leave the road and crash in otherwise good conditions. They aren’t taught to drive properly.

      • Chris12345 on 19/06/2019 - 16:14
        +7

        If someone has never skidded in their entire driving career, then they are probably driving far to conservatively and annoy every other road user when there is a sprinkle of rain.

        • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:51

          Spinning his wheels once was a wake up call as if he has pstd from nam.

  • HeWhoKnows on 19/06/2019 - 12:52

    I think you need to view "the evidence" as this is what the judge would reply upon to make a decision as well as the policeman's statement.

    Whilst you were not speeding the policeman could argue that you were not driving safely according to the same "poor" conditions on which you reply.

    However you could also argue that you felt there may have been oil on the road which caused your car to slide unexpectedly.

    However the policeman could also argue that his car was unaffected by the same conditions.

    The answer here is that the two cars are totally different with different tyres and suspension so would react differently under the same circumstances.

    So be very careful here as you could put your foot in it.

    Best to employ a good traffic lawyer if you take the matter to court

    • Daniel Plainview on 19/06/2019 - 13:38

      With all due respect you can't say,"However you could also argue that you felt there may have been oil on the road which caused your car to slide unexpectedly."

      OP never mentioned this either here nor to officer at time of incident - and even if he had unless it was documented and able to be verified at the time of the incident it's complete heresay and worthless. You'd be laughed at for even trying to 'claim' this as the basis.

      This thread is yet another good example of why investing in even a basic dashcam is well worth it - such footage would be easily reviewable - though as stated the OP will know how rapidly they entered the corner, the state of their vehicle and the conditions they chose to do so in.

      As I said before - you appeal the end penalty imposed - appealing the actual charge here seems unlikely to have success but if they've otherwise had a spotless records then reduction/waiver might be possible.

  • lltravel on 19/06/2019 - 15:30
    -1

    wow the amount of cop huggers in this thread and forum is amazing. People must love sucking up to the man and giving away their money.

    1. He did have full control of his car
    2. They have skid pan sessions to help you control the car in wet situations.
    3. Sometimes you can skid as parts of the road have a difference texture

    OP I suggest you argue this in court. Its clear that the road conditions differ and you still had control

    Losing control would mean the OP would have gone into the gutter

    This comment will be downvoted because of all the pig lovers.

    • Daniel Plainview on 19/06/2019 - 15:49

      A lot of blow hard big talk from you my friend.

      Cop huggers? Honestly where you get this from is anyone's guess - folks who have just been around long enough to see the moronic behaviour and carnage on the roads to appreciate that the Police do a thankless, underappreciated and tough job.

      You show a complete lack of understanding of even basic road safety concepts - i.e losing control would mean he had to go in the gutter.

      Honestly your 'post' and thats stretching definitions in several ways - probably should be downvoted as it contains several blatantly incorrect statements the balance of it being make up of pretty much nonsense. But people are already downvoting stuff in here just because they don't agree with it - so I for one won't downvote you, instead will leave your 'opinion' up for all and sundry to see.

      • lltravel on 19/06/2019 - 15:59
        -1

        Clearly, you fail to the corruption in the states police force

        All tatted up power hungry think they can get away with anything.

        Australia's police force will be as worse as USA soon enough.

        The only thing police do on the roads is to raise revenue.

        If the police were looking out for his safety he would have given him some advice on how to properly manage that situation instead of slapping him with a fine.

        Get with it and see the bigger picture.

        • Daniel Plainview on 19/06/2019 - 16:05

          Ah,……..ok.

          Like Grandma used to say if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing….so lets just agree to disagree. :-)

        • bizarredeal on 20/06/2019 - 11:08
          +1

          Agreed.

          They just after hitting their monthly to ticket targets. I mean we just victim of their KPI.

          On the other hand, noted increase in theft. My neighbours car broken into.
          And just now my work mate didn't show up to work. Car broken into.

        • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:48

          I reckon the government must have a pr department for shilling on forums, after all its pretty big business.
          For some reason comments on this website are way off from what people I talk to in real life are.

          The whole concept of on the spot fines shakes me the wrong way, if its a serious crime it deserves to be heard in front of a judge.

      • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:43

        Carnage from spinning wheels for a second, get real.

    • Mrbean007 on 19/06/2019 - 16:13
      +3

      Lol

      Friend had a similar issue coming out of his driveway up hill in wet car front wheels spun pulled over by a arrogant cop friend took it to court and won the case.

      Unfortunately you have good cops & bad cops.

  • Beanvee on 19/06/2019 - 15:34

    I drive a RWD commodore ute with no weight in the back and even I have to put in conscious effort if I want to slide in the rain, you were going way too hard.

  • Tuftsdude on 19/06/2019 - 16:01

    Take it to court. If the conditions were as you said, that's daylight robbery what they're asking. I got much less for speeding. Tbh I didn't deny to the officer that I was speeding, but in your case it sounds like an accident, especially because you were driving an outlander. That's ridiculous.

  • cuteseal on 19/06/2019 - 16:01
    +4

    Needs a MS Paint diagram… :)

    • kurisu on 19/06/2019 - 18:22
      +18

      Here you go.

      • YellowDieselGolf on 19/06/2019 - 20:23
        +1

        If you drew this, you’re the MVP of this thread.

      • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 22:09

        That's Sedan :) Police car matches though!! Kudos

      • cuteseal on 20/06/2019 - 09:44

        Thank you kind sir!! :)

  • Mrgreenz on 19/06/2019 - 16:09

    Must have been a decent slide if they spotted you

    • Tuftsdude on 19/06/2019 - 16:37
      -1

      Or it could've been really quiet at night and they followed from a distance, because people tend to speed more on empty roads at night and it's easy revenue raising.

      • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 22:10

        It was early morning, I was starting for work. It rained early morning I believe but wasn't raining when I skidded.

  • Cyphar on 19/06/2019 - 16:31

    If you've had no prior incidents, no fines nor demerit points deducted, write a letter to the dispensing officer explaining your good driving record and ask for leniency. It may get waived.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/06/2019 - 17:13
    +1

    I think there is more to this story than you are telling. If you really believe they were wrong, go to court. Would a reasonable person say you had proper control not? Why did YOU skid and not the car behind you or the police car or others?

    Again, I think there is more to it than you say it is.

    • ash79 on 19/06/2019 - 22:13

      I don't have more. I skidded after took a right turn. I didn't collide, didn't jump signal. I didn't have skid experience before but I believe I was able to control it after all.

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 19/06/2019 - 17:37

    What speed would everyone here slow down to in their car before taking a roundabout? I've skidded a few times in an old car turning right. Freaky stuff.

  • IamEzza on 19/06/2019 - 17:44
    +1

    Does no one realise it's possible to skid and still have control of the car?

    There is a form of motor-sport that is dedicated purely to controlled sliding of the car…

    • Forskin on 20/06/2019 - 06:44
      +1

      Agreed mate people are making this country look like we're a bunch of wimps

      If it was up to me i'd make it mandatory everyone snaps second when they drive ;)
      but it will never be up to me
      and no one will be snapping 2nd

  • zond on 19/06/2019 - 18:17
    +3

    You did have full controls of your car.
    It tried to skid unintentionally and you took control not to let it happen. :-)
    See them in the court and win.
    Ridiculous fine!!

  • burningrage on 19/06/2019 - 18:21

    Memo to OP. If you have been observing fined-while-driving related forums or post, you won't get sympathy no matter how innocuous your circumstances were.

    I think you should contest the fines. A caution would be reasonable considering you took back control immediately and you believe you have good driving history.

    No one is perfect and learn to be careful next time.

  • GourmetFoodie on 19/06/2019 - 19:07

    I'm usually first to say try your luck in court because I believe most of these fines are revenue raising but I can't see what you'd argue here given most people drive in wet weather without skidding so saying "it was an accident" doesn't really cut the mustard. If you drive the type of car that skids easily, it's your responsibility to be even more cautious when driving. Even though you were under the speed limit you need to judge the appropriate speed beneath that to turn a corner - and you were over-aggressive resulting in the skid. You definitely got unlucky getting caught and a good cop should have probably given you a warning. But technically yes, you were in the wrong.

    • miicah on 20/06/2019 - 13:06

      If you drive the type of car that skids easily,

      He drives a FWD outlander lol

  • nosey on 19/06/2019 - 19:56
    -1

    Pay fine and move on. You will be further out of pocket challenging this regardless of fault.

  • Okayy on 19/06/2019 - 21:55

    Police = Traffic Police ONLY!

  • banana365 on 19/06/2019 - 22:47
    +1

    "While talking to police officer, told him several times that car skidded due to bad weather condition"

    So you admitted to the police that you either deliberately skidded or you were unable to control your vehicle, demonstrated by your inability to adapt to the conditions after the first skid. You're screwed.

    • ash79 on 20/06/2019 - 00:51

      :(

  • bizarredeal on 20/06/2019 - 06:36

    Police these days focus on making money. Not catching the guys who rob or hurt others.

    My mate got broken into at his house - police stopped by 2 days later. Because it's not revenue.

    In this case, they have gone to an extreme to find a way to hit their quota of issuing ticket for the month perhaps. Feel sorry for you OP.

    I once got pulled over and told I swerved. I told him I signalled and safely moved lanes. He left me in peace.

  • cornholyio on 20/06/2019 - 08:31
    +2

    I drifted(skidded) in the rain on the weekend too, I think it was hydroplaning. Wife freaked out and I was wondering which wheel I lost.
    Although under the speed limit, I was going a bit fast for such weather.

  • releasethekr4cken on 20/06/2019 - 08:45

    Say it was an oil slick

    • banana365 on 20/06/2019 - 13:53

      In five different places?

  • colspooners on 20/06/2019 - 09:59

    I reckon it depends on how hard you want to push it but the most important factor is how many cops in the patrol were witness to the event and is it really on camera?
    If you elect to go to court and there is only one police witness and you feel capable of mounting an effective defense it is likely that the magistrate will find it hard to form an opinion.
    This is provided you are generally of good character and dont have previous form. You'd need to argue something like the road conditions caused a momentary loss of control, it didn't constitute any risk or harm to public or to property, the matter is trivial and shouldn't be a matter that has ever come before the court. Plead not guilty and ask for an adjournment to give you time to view the footage.
    Magistrate is likely to refer matter to a pre trial conference or ask police if they want to continue with prosecution. You'll then either have to met with a police prosecutor in a separate appointment or the case will be dropped. Police will possibly view the matter as risky and drop case.
    You need to weigh up whether the risk of losing and the time you are going to have to devote - probably 2 half days off work - is worth saving $446 and 3 points.
    Also don't blame for dodgy legal advice if you lose :)

  • aussieolfaction on 20/06/2019 - 10:41

    I'm not "voting" on your poll for a couple of reasons: 1. it's impossible to form an informed opinion given the information. 2. This is a bargain website, and not a legal aid forum. I'd strongly advise you to seek legal aid (you know free legal aid is available for matters like this in all states, yes?)

  • poochi on 20/06/2019 - 11:49

    OP, you can either cop the fine because you didn't have full control of your vehicle, or you could waste your money and time contesting it in court because all the Top Gear viewers on this forum don't think they should be held personally responsible for their vehicle.

  • Butt Scratcher on 20/06/2019 - 13:04

    Ask for the footage and post it on ozbargain.

    Only way we can be objective about it

  • Herbse on 20/06/2019 - 13:34

    Stop drifting. Sure you saved it this time, but you lost control of the car and that's an offence.
    Take it to court if you feel you can argue something.

  • bargainhunter87 on 20/06/2019 - 14:38

    Pay. the. fine

  • hasher22 on 20/06/2019 - 14:55

    This is on par when an officer charged a man I think $220 for giving $1.50 to a street window washer.

  • Skramit on 20/06/2019 - 15:29
    -2

    Oh gawd the lies……

    Just admit you gave it a bit of extra something something around the corner as a laugh, like a LOT of people do on a wet day, and you might get a little more respect. Pretending that the car just "slid" by accident or some other rubbish is just insulting everyone's intelligence.

  • HangryCakeStore on 20/06/2019 - 18:36
    +2

    Cops getting desperate for cash, is their a target there team try to reach?
    reasons ask is because Police here only try concentrate on whats the most rewarding investigation, hardly any have to passion to help the community, bordering what you seen in the USA sometimes

    • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:39

      There have been a couple of news reports on this issue.
      There was also the time the police union was in negotiation with the government and they decided that they would stop speed camera revenue etc, they literally said that this would not affect the safety of the public.

      I have also lost traction on my bicycle on a wet road, according to the people in this topic I deserve a fine to teach me a lesson. I have a feeling many people here don't have a car for whatever reason and are jealous.

  • echelon6 on 20/06/2019 - 19:28

    try not to brake in the middle of a turn, especially in the wet. Yes all cars have ABS etc etc but still - once you lose traction you tend to go in a straight line. Do your braking during a straight.

  • Galvatron on 20/06/2019 - 23:43
    -4

    Driven plenty of times in poor, even terrible conditions.

    Not a cautious driver.

    Have more kilowatts under me than someone should have,

    Care for my tyres pressure and tread levels.

    Never lost control of the car turning a simple traffic light,

    Take the fine and move on - you’re either a bad driver, or driving on slicks. Either way, deserving of a fine before you end up wrapping yourself (or, forbid, another) around a telegraph pole,

  • pinkybrain on 21/06/2019 - 08:08

    if you lose the court case
    does anyone know how much you could end up paying including court cost?

  • Scrobo on 21/06/2019 - 10:34
    +1

    Lawyer here, (don't throw fruit at me).
    In NSW you have a right to view the footage, call in person at the Police Station, explain that you would like to review the footage of the incident in question. You will likely have to fill out a request and book an appointment, but you have full rights to view the footage.

    If after viewing it, and you believe it looks like there may have been something on the road, that was invisible to you the driver, such as oil, that caused the slide, then you can take it to court. If you are driving slowly, and not surging forwards, and the car suddenly drifts, then it is possible, ie there is reasonable doubt that unforeseen conditions came into play.

    From a personal viewpoint, get your suspension checked out, and replace your tyres with ones that have good wet weather performance. Good tyres aren't cheap, but they make the difference between life and death, especially in the wet, and in this case would likely have saved you $450.
    (https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-advice/the-best-and-worst-ty…) there are plenty of other tests out there online.

    For everyone else judging, it is possible that there was a lubricant on the road, which would have caused a slide almost no matter what speed the driver was going, it is also likely that they do not know how to drive well in the wet, either way, the slide and fine is a wakeup call to get suspension checked, get better tyres, and perhaps look into an advanced driver training session on a skidpan with your own car, to get a better handle on how your car performs in poor conditions, it might save yours, and others lives.

  • Scrobo on 21/06/2019 - 10:40

    But if you do go to court, hire a traffic lawyer (not me) or you are bound to put your foot in your mouth, court isn't easy, and you will likely be nervous and say the wrong thing. Just my 2c.

  • dlakers3peat on 21/06/2019 - 12:33
    +1

    What is your driving record like. Have you had any fines in the last 5 or 10 years. I just got a traffic infringement dismissed under section 10 with no conviction and No penalty. Have very good driving record though

    • McCheapo on 21/06/2019 - 16:44

      I agree with this. If you have a good record and the video shows that you weren't doing what all the "driving legends" above accuse you of, a 'section 10' should be more than likely.
      Good luck.

  • biozet on 21/06/2019 - 12:48
    +1

    you should go to the station and challenge the cops to a drifting session late night at a local car park…show them youre the boss driftking

  • whirlpool_guy on 21/06/2019 - 13:15
    +1

    Got dashcam footage?

  • Shark on 21/06/2019 - 14:04
    -2

    mate, you spiritedly hit the accelerator pedal hard enough to exceed the tyre friction around the corner in the wet. Just suck it up and drive to conditions or accept that a bit of fun around the corner sometimes costs $448.

  • OzBestDeal on 21/06/2019 - 14:40

    Most fairly new car has stability control built in.
    Unless it's turned off, it is designed for this very purposes… control traction in bad weather.

  • Pretzel_Ninja on 21/06/2019 - 15:34

    @ash79 Unfortunately you cannot use weather as an excuse in this situation. However, if you can provide evidence that perhaps the road surface was the cause (for example oil spills on the road) then perhaps you can appeal the fine. You'll need to provide evidence such as photos of the street, oil slicks or pot holes and attach this to your appeal.

    Highway patrol police are required to record everything and the officer has to issue a fine otherwise they will be asked by their superiors on why they did not issue a fine. Be mindful that your conversation with the officer is also recorded and your appeal will review not only the video footage but what was discussed with the officer (audio recording). Since you have already tried to justify that it was the weather, this would have been recorded.

    Best of luck.

    • ash79 on 21/06/2019 - 17:09

      Thanks for your input. This certainly helps

  • CalmLemons on 21/06/2019 - 18:04

    That's ridiculous.

    I used to drive a rear wheel drive ute to visit clients and this thing would skid all over the place. The issue is the suspension is hard the rear is so light.

    Was driving 30km/h on a dirt road that was damp, tapped the brakes and ended up in the ditch.
    On even slight uphill slopes in the wet the rear wheels would just continuously spin, would need to keep it in 3 (Toyota Hilux, limits spin) to even get it to move.

    Worst was doing a right turn on tram tracks in Brunswick, made it around the corner and car spun out for about 20m, all the cars behind me just stopped in their tracks.

    Police are not engineers. They think they know how cars work, but they don't. They are police for a reason, engineers are engineers. We once has a cop judge the stopping speed of a car based on whether there were tyre marks or not, WTF? The guy sounded like a euro backpacker.

    These were brand new tyres as they were changed regularly by the company with ample tread.

    Two wheel drive vehicles will slip in the wet, whether you have traction control or not. ABS won't do jack and will just keep you in a straight line when stopping only.

    Unless it's full time FWD, it still takes time for the 4WD auto to kick in, and that's highly dependent on whether it's a hydraulic 4WD system or electronic.

    All this is assuming you were taking the turn less than 40km/h.

    Also, if there is enough water under your tyres, you could always just aquaplane, doesn't matter how good a car or tyres you have.

  • Wayne7497 on 21/06/2019 - 19:10

    If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard OP excuse I'd be a rich man by now.

  • eldudebrothers on 22/06/2019 - 05:40
    +2

    It is a travesty in law when you get punished for skidding in a car. Fight this nonsense.

  • computer barn find on 24/06/2019 - 21:27

    There have been a many reports that police have a certain number of fines they have to generate, pretty obvious what happened here. They are getting really desperate now because the government thought that the once in 100 year mining boom would be a permanent thing and now there is a massive shortage of revenue. Pretty ridiculous to fine someone for an innocent mistake. I would strongly recommend you get an in car camera for the back and the front, cops tend to act a heck of a lots nicer when you have evidence.
    I would say the driver was in complete control, he noticed a loss of grip and took action, sometimes there is a smooth patch of road after some rain with really low grip and you can't always tell.

    A weird thing I noticed on this website is that there are a lot of suck ups who blindly put their faith in the cops, its like they say - anyone who would give up some freedom for more security deserves neither.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/01/2021 - 23:05

    Non relevant, but curious, what car do you drive?

    86's tail goes side way in the rain with minimal effort.

    • ash79 on 02/01/2021 - 23:33

      It wad Mitsubishi outlander 2011 model. Its a very reliable car, that was the only incident i had with that car.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/01/2021 - 20:30

        You go, my friend. Only seen it flip, not skid.

  • Legoncy on 03/01/2021 - 08:57

    You can always go to court plead guilty and explain the situation to the judge.
    Explain you drive a soccer mums suv and your intend was not to slide at all the weather conditions were poor and since this occasion you now make sure you drive even more safer and to the conditions

    You will be surprised how many judges will let you off or charge worse case only court fees (100-150$)

    I have been to court a number of times pleaded guilty apologised/explained the situation and been let off.

    Doesn’t happen all the time but by the sounds of things this is your first case in 5 years. Your in a good spot.

    However if you ever get caught again doing the same thing within a year or two you’ll better pay the fine haha

  • Grunntt on 04/01/2021 - 08:49
    +1

    Seeing as this thread from June 2019 has been revived for some reason I assume the OP has had a resolution to the ticket.
    OP - how did it turn out for you?

    • quarkgun on 04/01/2021 - 15:27

      Also keen to find out! haha

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