Free electricity for my Tesla at my Apartment

meowsers on 01/06/2019 - 20:25
Last edited 03/06/2019 - 19:39

Okay bargain guys and gals, just wanted your input on this.

I bought a Telsa Model S (used) 3 months ago and live in a medium rise apartment with a carpark. In the carpark about every 2 car spaces is a standard (weatherproof version) power point. As of this point I haven't heard back from the Body Corporate in RE installing a Level 2 charger ( higher speed) at my own expense.

I have been charging every day (since I got it), with occasional trips to the supercharger when necessary but mostly using the 240 consumer grade power point by my carpark with no issues (caretaker even commented how cool it was). These powerpoints are def not metered to my individual apartment. It charges very slowly with the powerpoint but is enough to get me back and forth commuting.

If I was to charge from empty to full would probably take forever with a 85 kilowatt hour battery.

Should I feel any ethical quandaries about this? Is anyone else doing the same? I took the caretakers assent as tacit approval lol.

Update: Anyone else from Sydney have any tips for dealing with this? How did you go about it?

UPDATE 3/6:

So I called the BC / Mgmt company today, and they haven't responded because of admin issues or something like that. BUT they did tell me some good news, they have been actually studying adding electric chargers anyways.

So good news is this, next month or so, they will be installing 2 generic three phase chargers, in two of the visitors bays ( have 10 in total) (they are never all in use anyways) with priority for residents who have EV. Those bays will be painted green to encourage people not to park there.

Apparently they will not be charging ( all pun intended) for this as it covered by some type of grant or something, and the electricity will remain free of charge for the time being for users. Not sure if anyone else has an EV but I haven't seen them.

I guess the good thing is if those bays are occupied somehow I still have my slow fallback charger.

Automotive

Comments

      • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:33

        You pay your share of the strata fees to contribute to the cost of RUNNING and MAINTAINING the building.

        Not to supply yourself with an infinite amount of electricity paid for by every other owner in the building.

    • Ozbargainite on 02/06/2019 - 03:00
      +25

      I charge my phone and powerbanks at work. I'll hand myself into the police as soon as possible.

      • smartazz104 on 02/06/2019 - 20:37
        +17

        We have people up in arms for using electricity at a building they don't live at, on a website where people would sell their own mother to save $5. It's like when people decided to vote Liberal because they were scared that their pension was going be taken from them when half of them don't even know what a franking credit is.

        • ProggerPete on 03/06/2019 - 12:10
          +1

          Just as an FYI, abolishing franking credit refunds would have only affected people who aren't generating enough taxable income for their personal tax rate to exceed the corporate tax rate. A quick think about it and you'll work out who that is likely to be.

          The poor probably aren't receiving any fully franked dividends. Anyone working a regular job will be paying tax anyway so they'd still get their tax deduction. The people affected would be those relying on dividends as their sole source of income, i.e. Retirees.

          Whether you think destroying peoples retirement plan is a good thing is subjective, but this policy basically guaranteed zero votes from any self funded retiree.

      • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:35

        That is an issue for your employer.

        But at the same time most employers expect you to make use of your phone for work related activities.

    • Never Pay RRP on 02/06/2019 - 12:40
      +1

      So why do you think they put the power points there?
      It's clearly for the residents to use, there is no other option for the OP, and they have not objected when the OP clearly told them about it

      • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:39
        -1

        The STANDARD power point outlets are there for
        a) residents vacuuming their car on an ocassional basis
        b) the cleaners doing thier job.

        If the Body corp intended the power points to be used for charging EVs then dont you think the appropriate EV charging points would have been installed instead as OP has rightfully pointed out.

        In any case it was the builder and not the body corp that installed the power points there for whatever reason. So you cannot draw any conclusions about what the BC has to say about this.

        Perhaps they will decide to have them all disconnected due to misue by various people

        • Never Pay RRP on 08/06/2019 - 14:23

          The STANDARD power point outlets are there for
          a) residents vacuuming their car on an ocassional basis
          b) the cleaners doing thier job.

          Do you have any documentation to support your assertion, or did you just make this up?

          Perhaps they will decide to have them all disconnected due to misue by various people

          They seem to have done the exact opposite and installed the EV charging points, explicitly stating that they can be used free of charge.

        • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 14:35
          +2

          You can't just make up what power points are for to suit your weird little narrative.

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/06/2019 - 13:28
      -5

      EXACTLY!
      No different to OP filling his car up with petrol from a tank located onsite.

  • thatonethere on 01/06/2019 - 23:43
    +11

    A very long time ago when I rented there was a huge scandal when an electrician went up into the ceiling to replace hallway lights and found numerous extension leads from many laundrys (washing machines and dryers) plugged into the hallway lighting sockets with double adapters…

    • peteru on 02/06/2019 - 22:21

      The issue there would have been safety and illegal wiring, not the cost associated with energy consumption.

      • matt-ozb on 03/06/2019 - 00:23

        why? most lights are now installed with a standard 240v outlet socket .. the lights just plug-in with a standard plug … so why not just plug-in a double-adapter? why is that a safety issue?

        • skillet on 03/06/2019 - 00:58

          If the plugs work itself loose it can cause poor connection and high resistance this will heat up and catch fire quickly.

        • abb on 03/06/2019 - 11:58
          +2

          Extension cords are not meant to be run surrounded by (thermal/fibreglass) insulation, they could melt. Old lighting circuits are not RCD protected. Cabling is supposed to be installed in certain ways (e.g. along beams) to minimise the chance of accidentally cutting it when doing building works.

          And so on.

      • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:42
        -1

        SCANDAL!!!!!

        The "scandal" was stealing power from the BC
        The safety issue is (perhaps) the fire hazard

    • meowsers on 02/06/2019 - 09:21
      +29

      It has nothing to do with affording it or not. I have already offered to have a charging system installed at my expense, and I would also have no issues with paying for the kWH used. I have no choice other that going to a supercharger in the city.

        • brendanm on 02/06/2019 - 13:37
          +3

          It's been mentioned a fair few times in this thread.

          • whooah1979 on 02/06/2019 - 16:04
            -4

            @brendanm: Thanks for that.

            It sounds like the GPO is being used for personal use without paying for the service.

            • brendanm on 02/06/2019 - 16:53

              @whooah1979: Body corporate fees pay for the service. Op has asked to be charged or have a seperate charging station installed and they ignored him. As I've mentioned, unless the body corp bylaws specify that you can't charge an electric car from that point, he is free to do so. If body corp wants to be payed for the power, they can reply to op.

              • jorf on 02/06/2019 - 18:33

                @brendanm: Body corp companies are only interested in collecting the fees. They absolutely do not care what goes on at the property and will only do anything when directed to.

                OP is asking the wrong people. He SHOULD be asking the owners, who I guarantee will kick up a massive stink when they find out that he's stealing from them. But he won't do that, because he already knows that it's theft, like anyone with any common sense would.

                • brendanm on 02/06/2019 - 19:29
                  +8

                  @jorf: Sounds like he is an owner. It's not his job to talk to everyone in the building, and the people in the building have no control over him being allowed to install a seperate meter/charging station. Strata/body corp and the people who can do this.

                  Do you know that the bylaws for the building specify that you aren't allowed to charge an electric car from the powerpoints that are provided for the residents?

                  In case you can't figure it out, I'm not advocating op steal the power, and neither is he.

              • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:45

                @brendanm: A GPO is not provided for the purpose of charging an EV
                Even OP understands this which is why they have asked to install an appropriate charging point.

                And that charging point should either be metered or connected back to OPs power supply

                • brendanm on 08/06/2019 - 11:16

                  @HeWhoKnows: Looks like you've obviously missed the ops update where he was in contact with the owner corp who said it was completely fine, and they will also be putting in charging stations

    • smartazz104 on 02/06/2019 - 20:38

      Yeah and yet you have idiots who drive German "prestige" cars saving on parking fees by parking illegally. OP has offered to rectify the issue multiple times.

  • gth on 02/06/2019 - 09:23
    -2

    You wouldn't take your dishes into work and use the dishwasher, would you?

    The obvious end result will be no more power points in common areas.

    • cfuse on 02/06/2019 - 10:20
      +34

      Of course you wouldn't take your dishes into work. That's silly. You take your food into work, eat off their plates, and then just leave the dirty plates on the bench next to the dishwasher for someone else to deal with.

      • Ozpit on 02/06/2019 - 12:19
        +4

        ^ This. Regular behavior at my last uni staff job except dirty plates are left in the sink. Who do they expect/think is going to come along behind them and clean up?

      • foolsgold on 03/06/2019 - 13:44

        It's likely that having a Power Point to each car space already was intended for the incoming of plug-in electric cars. So perhaps this was some sort of half effort from the developer. So maybe this will be the new norm in the next couple of years.

        • HeWhoKnows on 08/06/2019 - 10:47

          I doubt it.
          Developers would not go to any extra expense without the law requiring them to do so.

    • fantombloo on 02/06/2019 - 10:31
      +1

      You wouldn't take your dishes into work and use the dishwasher, would you?

      If the opportunity cost was lower than other options then the answer is probably yes.

    • smartazz104 on 02/06/2019 - 20:40

      No, because that is less convenient than using a powerpoint that is only metres from the car space.

  • jace88 on 02/06/2019 - 09:59

    Reminds me of people who used to bring their mining rigs to public places and use “free electricity”.

    • Never Pay RRP on 02/06/2019 - 12:46
      +13

      The car is parked where it is supposed to be, and using the only available charging outlet. Your argument is akin to saying someone shouldn't charge their phone at work because they aren't paying for the electricity.
      The OP isn't parking where they shouldn't be, or deliberately putting something out of place just for the free electricity

      • HeWhoKnows on 02/06/2019 - 13:32
        -4

        You got it all wrong!
        Its clearly theft of power.
        Those power points were NOT put there to recharge EVs or the approriate power points would have been installed.
        they are there so people can vacuum clean their cars or for the cleaners to use. Nothing more.

        • foolsgold on 03/06/2019 - 17:02
          +1

          Most likely were for cars, but yes in correct power points for EVs.
          As an architect we see this in many developments.

          Marketing Company: "People who are buying these apartments are asking about how they would charge their electric cars"
          Client "Ensure they can charge their electric cars"

          Lets say it costs, $200 per dedicated circuit, wiring to a new sub board, and then another $150 bucks per Three Phase GPO, not including the supercharger.

          Thats $350 multiplied by 40 apartments = 14k

          Or you could provide a standard power point, can it still charge an electric car? Yes, is it ideal, No.
          40 ip rated Double GPOs with less circut breakers, lets say $50 bucks a gpo, (double outlet so need half) 20x40 = $1000.

          Client has saved 13k, Marketing can say there will be a power point to each space IF some one asks. Makes sale of apartment to the one person who asked, for a measly $1000.

          Those figures are just generic for argument sakes, and secondly, its usually the builders who offer these discounts, I'm just showing how some of these decisions playout in the background.

        • Never Pay RRP on 08/06/2019 - 14:34

          Its clearly theft of power.

          Yep, thieves always write and ask if what they are doing is ok, and then have the appropriate authorities give them permission to continue what they were doing.
          Obviously theft

      • jace88 on 02/06/2019 - 16:30
        +1

        Just because there isn't a control or a rule to prevent you from doing it, doesn't make it right. In strata living, up until recently, there was little ability for people to really abuse it and even if they did, it would cost more to prevent/manage than it would save… but then with electric cars, that's now changed the dynamics.

        And in some places, I'm sure that using the employer's electricity could amount to theft - I heard some people did try mining rigs at their workplaces too and got dismissed when found out.

        Back on topic though, as someone who pays strata in a few apartment buildings, I would not be impressed if I knew someone was adding significant $$'s to our quarterly bills/rates for private consumption. As others have pointed out, the OC/strata should be implementing controls/measures for this but unfortunately given the OC is largely managed by volunteers (with a commercial strata manager to help), it'll always be slow to catch up. Heck even before NBN came out and TPG/etc were trying to get exclusive fibre internet installed, it was a real mess.

  • OzBargainologist on 02/06/2019 - 10:00
    -2

    So using mains electricity to charge an electric car if using coal fired power station and 400g of coal per 1kWh means to charge an 85kWh battery will consume around 34 kg of coal.

    So why did you buy a Tesla if not charging from renewable energy?

    If your electricity rates are 25c/kWh then each full charge is costing $21 to someone. You should be paying.

    • Never Pay RRP on 02/06/2019 - 12:49
      +1

      Why do you assume the power outlet is 100% powered by coal power?

      • OzBargainologist on 02/06/2019 - 21:30
        +3

        Because we still use coal for power generation and its easy for most to pictured 34 kg of coal that the equivalent gas. It is just to show people there is no silver bullet here, electric cars have big environmental problems like most things we consume.

        • garage sale on 02/06/2019 - 22:05
          -2

          you must be in queensland …..most other states are shutting down coal fired power plants.

          • OzBargainologist on 03/06/2019 - 11:14

            @garage sale: You must be in Australia?

            Energy in Australia:

            https://www.originenergy.com.au/blog/about-energy/energy-in-…

            "In fact, around 86 percent of our electricity is generated from these fuels types, with 73 percent from coal and 13 percent from natural gas.1 Around the world it’s much the same, with fossil fuels being used for electricity, heating and powering vehicles."

            Coal is a major electricity generator world-wide:

            "Coal grew more than any other single source of generation in 2018, accounting for 26% of total additional generation. With a 38% market share, it remains the largest source of electricity generation. The highest increase in coal power generation took place in China, followed by India. These countries more than offset significant reductions in the United States, Europe and Japan."

            https://www.iea.org/geco/electricity/

            Buying an electric car and charging it from fossil fuel just seems a waste of resources versus driving less and buying a small efficiency petrol powered car like perhaps a Toyota Hybrid. The best use of resources is not to consume them in the first place.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2019 - 11:54
              +3

              @OzBargainologist:

              Coal is a major electricity generator world-wide:

              Way to completely selectively misinterpret that information. You can't just cherry pick information from 2018.

              We are at a summit period where Coal is about to plummet in production and use for energy. It's not just Australia decommissioning coal power stations, 50+ governments have signed and committed to closing stations over the next 10 years.
              https://poweringpastcoal.org/about/Powering_Past_Coal_Allian…

              The USA alone intends to further reduce their reliance on coal. They've closed nearly half their coal stations in the past decade and intend to close a further 50% of the remainder in the upcoming decade.
              https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec2_13.pdf

              The main anomaly is China and India, who frankly just don't give a crap.

              Renewables are a significant percentage of our global energy production, whilst not majority, but it is increasing significantly each year.

              Buying an electric car and charging it from fossil fuel just seems a waste of resources

              False dilemma.

              • u9tvfr on 04/06/2019 - 08:06

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The US might be shutting down coal but they'll also be ramping up gas. Which produces about 30 percent of the CO2 that coal does for the equivalent energy. Depending on the type of coal of course, cough Victorian brown…

                The massive investment happening in alternative energy isn't enough to replace the massive amounts of energy we get from all types of fossil fuels, yet.

                https://www.energymatters.com.au/energy-efficiency/australia…

                Every energy supply prediction curve I've seen in the last decade has the coal contribution decreasing but being swamped by the increase in gas.

                We used to talk about gas being the transition fuel from oil to whatever we replaced it with but nobody ever talked about what we'd replace coal with.

                Still a long way to go.

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/06/2019 - 18:44

                  @u9tvfr: No figures to back that up yet. I politely disagree.

                  • u9tvfr on 04/06/2019 - 20:23

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Hi zeggie,
                    what figures would you like to see, and which part of what I said do mean when there are no figures to back it up? I usually don't engage on this but I'm interested to see what it would take to inform someone about the scale of the changes that need to take place. I may only see one side of the equation as I work in the energy supply industry, maybe I'll learn something. Yes, my work is related to fossil fuels.

                    The US has gone from importing gas to exporting it in the last decade and exports are forecast to continue to increase, usually the forecasts are based on contracts to buy which allow companies to get finance to build the export facilities but the US market is so different to where I work that I might be missing something. I could point you at articles but if you tell me what sources you find credible, I'll see what there is that suits that criteria.

                    Gas bought and sold internally within the US is cheap and there is a lot of it. None of the downward pressure on LNG gas export prices is coming from the demand side, it's coming from the supply side, from companies and countries bringing large projects online to meet demand.

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/06/2019 - 15:35

                      @u9tvfr:

                      The US might be shutting down coal but they'll also be ramping up gas.

                      I already posted the statistics that disagree with your statement in my previous post. There aren't "ramping up gas".

                      Gas consumption has been stagnant since 2015 with slight changes.
                      Renewables are increasing steadily in comparison.

                      Like I said. Politely disagree.

                      • u9tvfr on 05/06/2019 - 17:32

                        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Okay, so we're sort of talking about different things. I see the increase in export of LNG, which has basically only started to happen in the last few years as infrastructure comes online to do so.

                        https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38692

                        I don't see demand side stuff like the electricity consumption. Not sure where the gas is being exported to. Most of the export terminals I know about are on the east coast. Not sure who the big consumers are.

                        Those generation stats are interesting. I put them into excel to see what they look like on a chart, and I think you can see what I mean about gas consumption increasing for electricity production. It's taking up a fair bit of the slack. at least as much as wind. There's also been a demand drop that accounts for some of the coal shutdowns. I haven't done the conversion of BCF to btu to see how much gas is being exported compared to used for electricity generation but I know of at least 2 LNG export terminals in the planning stage on the east coast.

                        https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nch517vryqnmbw/energy_chart.PNG?d…

                        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 06/06/2019 - 11:40

                          @u9tvfr:

                          Okay, so we're sort of talking about different things.

                          We were talking about generation and consumption until you jumped in. Production is a different topic and irrelevant.

                          I see the increase in export of LNG

                          Irrelevant. Majority of LNG is not used for power generation, and thus, consumption.

                          • u9tvfr on 06/06/2019 - 12:09

                            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Sorry about that, I got a bit sidetracked by the LNG stuff.
                            Anyway, so what I was trying to point out was in the second paragraph

                            I put the statistics from the eia you linked to in a chart.
                            https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nch517vryqnmbw/energy_chart.PNG?d…

                            Gas consumption has been stagnant since 2015 with slight changes.

                            I disagree with this, the eia stats you linked to show a pretty obvious steady increase, short term fluctuations in gas production are the opposite in the coal production, suggests short term shortfalls in coal are replaced with gas. Overall the rate of increase in gas generation is either slightly higher or level with renewables in total.

                            In the US gas is on track to become the largest contributor to electricity production in the next few years.

                            Yes, renewables, particularly wind is contributing more. The point I was trying to make about gas is that nobody is predicting a reduction in its production.

                            I'm not saying that this is the right thing to do. Just that the statistics you pointed at tell me something very different to what they tell you.

                            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/06/2019 - 12:15

                              @u9tvfr: 2015 - 9,926
                              2016 - 10,301
                              2017 - 9,555
                              2018 - 10,949

                              Lots stagnant with slight changes to me.

                              The point I was trying to make about gas is that nobody is predicting a reduction in its production.

                              Again, production is a different topic of discussion. The stats above only refers to gas used for energy consumption. Only ~35% of gas produced is used for energy consumption. The majority of it is for other industrial purposes or exported.

                              • u9tvfr on 08/06/2019 - 09:30

                                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: This is where eyeballing the raw numbers can give you the wrong idea, particularly over short time frames.
                                2017 is the anomaly here, overall the average increase per year in gas electricity generation since coal electricity generation started to decline in 2008 to 2018 is about 412 Trillion btu per year.

                                Its the rate of change (decrease or increase) per year that you need to look at. For comparison the average total increase in total renewables is 283 per year since 2008

                                2018 has gas generated electricity at its highest amount ever on the eia chart. This is 650 higher than 2016, 1000 higher than 2015. All relatively close to a slightly longer term average increase of ~400 per year.

                                2017 gas electricity generation is offset by a short term increase in hydro, an increase (above the ~300 10 year average) in renewables, and a decrease in total electricity generation. This is just a statement, there's no analysis of these numbers just showing that there are multiple other inputs into the system that you need to look further into if you want to analyse whats going on in a single year. They had a monthly breakdown there if you want to dig into it.

                                Anyway, there's probably a rule about adding to long dead posts. Happy to dig into how I'd analyse this sort of data outside of this thread.

        • nith265 on 03/06/2019 - 12:11
          +3

          electric cars have big environmental problems like most things we consume.

          God this line of logic is infantile. To extrapolate from your comments it seems you're saying:

          “Electric cars still rely on electricity generated by coal, since coal creates carbon and carbon is bad there is no point in buying one. Anyone saying electrics cars are beneficial to lowering carbon emissions is an ill informed, virtue signalling hypocrite”

          The obvious benefit of an electric vehicle is that it taps into the grid which accepts power from any generation source – fossil fuel or not. Power generation is consolidated to a central location and allows for the option of at least “clean coal” plants or more hopefully from renewable sources now and into the future.

          .. its easy for most to pictured 34 kg of coal that the equivalent gas.

          As opposed to imagining 30 litres of crude oil needed to make the petrol to fill the tank of a standard car….?

          Apologies if I’ve misrepresented you - It’s hard to know what your position is from your comments - but you kind of sound like a teenager excited about getting their first taste of constructing an argument for a critical essay.

        • Never Pay RRP on 03/06/2019 - 16:15
          +1

          its easy for most to pictured 34 kg of coal that the equivalent gas

          It's funny that people always talk about the carbon emissions from the generation of the electricity for PV vehicles, but never the carbon emissions from the generation of petrol (as opposed to the carbon emissions from burning the petrol itself).

          If you want to do the proper comparison, then you will need to factor in the emissions of the petrol tanker, the oil refinery, the oil tanker, the oil rig, ….

          However if your point is that EV vehicles are not technically zero emission in their lifecycle, and that we should use them (and all other vehicles) less, then I agree with you.

      • Dr-StrangeLove on 03/06/2019 - 10:22

        Just googled and found that Australia relies heavily on traditional sources for generating it's electricity. 86% of it is generated using fossil fuels with 73% from coal. So there is a fair chance that statement is right

        • Never Pay RRP on 03/06/2019 - 15:17

          Well if you consider 100% to be equal to 73% (and the 73% is declining) then yes, there is a "fair* chance that statement is right"

          *fair chance being probably below 73%

    • HeWhoKnows on 02/06/2019 - 13:33
      -5

      YES! Its theft of power

    • ItsMeAgro on 03/06/2019 - 11:56
      +4

      So why did you buy a Tesla if not charging from renewable energy?

      Because charging an electric car from a power point still produces drastically lower emissions than burning petrol, even if 100% of the mains electricity is coming from coal power plants (which, of course, it isn't).

      https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+card+power+emission…

  • jonkvh on 02/06/2019 - 11:59
    +3

    This is just a poor Strata Corp setup. They shouldn't be placing outlets like this in the garage, as it encourages abuse such as the Tesla charging. If you don't get a designated outlet with a meter installed, the Body Corp have rocks in their heads.

    • geoffs87 on 03/06/2019 - 12:17
      +3

      I'm going to assume the building was at least designed pre-EV.

      Every building i've owned in over the last 10 years has had electricity points in the allocated garages, and a large number of carspaces have points too.

      Unfortunately my current building i have a dedicated garage, and its connected to my unit's power, so there goes my plan to power a Tesla on building power :(

  • HeWhoKnows on 02/06/2019 - 13:15

    The owners corp (i.e. The owners of the apartments jointly) pays for any power used from outlets in the common area.
    These outlets are only for occassional use such as vacuuming your car but more specifically for use by cartaker/cleaner for cleaning and maintenance of the property.
    They are NOT provided for recharging your car and that is why the appropriate car charging outlet is not and wont be provided unfortunately.
    Its no different to helping yourself to fuel from a fuel tank that was provided for the caretaker's use only.
    So technically you are stealing power from the owners unless you have permission from the owners corp.
    Sorry the caretaker has no say in this whatsoever.
    Unfortunately Australia is not geared up for electric cars yet and we are still a long way from it.

    LABOR take note!

    • tranter on 02/06/2019 - 14:41
      +15

      True. With the Liberals in power it's a long way off.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2019 - 11:28
      +1

      The owners corp (i.e. The owners of the apartments jointly) pays for any power used from outlets in the common area.

      ..on behalf of the owners who have a vested right to utilise common property.

      These outlets are only for occasional use

      You don't know this. Neither does OP. I doubt the powerpoints are even mentioned in any OC rules.

      They are NOT provided for recharging your car

      You don't know this. The powerpoints have been installed in common area garage in high numbers, 1 powerpoint for every second carpark. It's not an area open to the public. They are there to be used.

      that is why the appropriate car charging outlet is not and wont be provided unfortunately.

      Of course it can be provided. OP has a right to request, and pay for, amenities to a common area of the OC provided:
      1. nobody makes an objection; and
      2. it doesn't impede or impact any other OC owners existing rights.

      Its no different to helping yourself to fuel from a fuel tank that was provided for the caretaker's use only.

      Non sequitur.

      So technically you are stealing power from the owners unless you have permission from the owners corp.

      OP is an owner, or a tenant of the owner. He/she has the same rights of occupation and use of common property other than voting. Even if he/she rents that rent goes towards OC fees. It's not stealing.

      Sorry the caretaker has no say in this whatsoever.

      The only point we agree on.

      Unfortunately Australia is not geared up for electric cars yet and we are still a long way from it.

      Disagree. Household power plugs are in most garages and 3 Phase points can be easily installed by any common electrician.

      LABOR take note!

      Aaaaand now we all know why you are scared of new technology and change.

      • geoffs87 on 03/06/2019 - 12:25

        imagine though, shoes on the other foot. You lived in a building and everyone had a tesla, charging from commons @ $300p.a., EXCEPT YOU.

        you would effectively be paying somewhere close to $300 p.a. extra in strata fees and getting no personal value from that $300… I'd imagine you'd fight pretty hard against that one.

        But if you're the one getting the power, everyone else is paying ~$10 p.a. for you to power your car. Kinda like installing a swimming pool and filling it up with building water every year, I'd be pretty annoyed if i was in that building and paying for someone elses benefits.

        Strata costs should equally benefit the owners, roughly based on the units of entitlement owned.

        I for example, live in a strata building, but i have a townhouse attached to the end of it. I pay almost the highest strata, as i have the largest area… we need 2 new lifts in the main building @ $250k each. Theres 35 units, i'm going to have to fork out ~$20k for those new lifts, and in 2 years i've never once even been inside those lifts. Sucks, but its strata life.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2019 - 12:55
          +1

          Strata costs should equally benefit the owners, roughly based on the units of entitlement owned.

          No, this is not the objective of an owners corporation. Equal division of common property costs based on a percentage of ownership. Not an equal division of benefits. Common property is for the mutual benefit (not equal) benefit of all private owners.

          There are pros and cons. Thus why I no longer live in a townhouse.

          Some buildings have elevators, gyms, public lounges, common driveway, security lighting. There will never be equal benefits. Everyone's needs are different and someone elses need will be subsidized by the other owners, ie. a disability ramp. Policing or tracking owners use of common property wouldn't work either as all owners have a right to use common property.

    • geoffs87 on 03/06/2019 - 12:19

      alot of new buildings are including spaces with EV charging points. In fact i believe many councils make it a requirement to have X% of spaces to be provided with EV charge points.

      Not sure how they allocate them… but theyre there!

  • [Deactivated] on 02/06/2019 - 14:17
    -2

    You're exploiting a loophole imo. Body corp's are useless at everything. Emailing them is obviously going to result in no action. What about a letter drop to your neighbours asking if they're cool with it?

  • kale chips suck on 02/06/2019 - 14:24
    +8

    Simple fix. Get one of these https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-energy-cost-electrical-met… for $20 and plug your charger into it, and it into the wall, when charging. It'll track your energy use. When you're done, note how many kWh you used. (The device won't keep a running tally; it loses track if it's not plugged in)

    Advise body corporate you're tracking your use and offer to reimburse them them for the energy used.

    Everyone is happy, no-one is getting ripped off. Unless someone pinches your meter….

    • meowsers on 02/06/2019 - 15:30
      +16

      The car already tells me how many kWH I am using.

      • BartholemewH on 03/06/2019 - 01:02
        +9

        Ok Mr fancy pants. That is actually pretty useful.

      • Cluster on 03/06/2019 - 11:26
        +1

        The kWh drawn from the outlet will be higher than shown by the car due to charging/charger losses. Also that Arlec meter is terrible as it doesn't account for Power Factor. There are other meters off eBay for the same price that do.

        • kale chips suck on 04/06/2019 - 19:28

          Hey cluster, are there any specific models on ebay you would recommend?

    • geoffs87 on 03/06/2019 - 12:27
      +2

      I did this once when i was younger. I filled up an inflatable swimming pool with common water tap (pool was in common area), and we had a party.

      Someone lost their Sh!t over it, complained to strata and i received a notice from strata. I worked out i'd used X litres of water, and at the sydney water rates, was about $14. I transferred $20 to the strata account and said "thanks for the swim"

  • morse on 02/06/2019 - 14:48

    I think it's acceptable to use until you can get an alternative arranged. If you hadn't attempted to contact body corporate it would be a bit dodgy. You could offer to pay for what you've used if you can calculate it.

  • scotteth on 02/06/2019 - 14:54

    You bought a electric car, what were your expectations about where you would charge it? I'd imagine that if your plan was to use the superchargers then you should do that. Otherwise I think the idea of using the metering device seems fair. I'd be pissed if somebody was doing this at my apartment complex.

    • brendanm on 02/06/2019 - 15:14
      +6

      Did you read the op? His intention was to pay for a specific charging station to be installed, and for him to pay for the power.

      • jace88 on 02/06/2019 - 16:11

        Not so straightforward when it comes to common property though - the Op has assumed that they'd be willing to allow for the installation of something which could have other consequences which the OC/strata aren't sufficiently knowledgeable on to approve. If it's anything like my building which has 200+ units, it takes a LOT to get any kind of approval/decision including risk assessments, approvals from council, etc… and that's if they're even willing to entertain it which they are under no obligation to.

        I'm not saying I agree/disagree with this, but I'm just familiar with the bureaucracy that is strata living and you'd be naive to think it's straightforward or just about the cost for the OC (who are usually volunteers too).

        On another note, in my previous building I noted that someone was regularly charging an i8 in the loading dock and was unimpressed that I was paying for this through strata… the power points were as someone else mentioned not intended for this purpose, and these communal areas were never built with a commercial mindset (i.e. to avoid free riders/charge for consumption) and hence the OCs are just not built with this in mind. Maybe newer apartments might have this planned better but at least in my new/current building, the strata just says you can't use communal powerpoints (even inside your garage) without permission for set purposes such as an electric garage door opener which has to have it's power consumption rating approved before installation (since they can't monitor usage).

        • whooah1979 on 02/06/2019 - 16:17
          +3

          , in my previous building I noted that someone was regularly charging an i8 in the loading dock and was unimpressed that I was paying for this through strata…

          The same goes for using common property water taps to water their plants and washing their vehicles.

          • jace88 on 02/06/2019 - 16:25

            @whooah1979: But if there's a sign which says it's for use by residents to wash cars, I think that's taken as permission - it's also (as far as I know) not a hugely expensive exercise in the scheme of things… vs charging an electric car.

        • brendanm on 02/06/2019 - 16:57
          +1

          So if they want to be difficult, op will just use the power outlet. If they want to be payed for the electricity, let op pay for a meter or a charging station to be installed. Should be pretty easy cable runs in an apartment complex.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2019 - 11:32
          +1

          approvals from council

          Why would you think a planning permit is required?

          • jace88 on 03/06/2019 - 12:20

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I'm giving general examples of the amount of documentation which may be required.

            That being said, at least in my area, I needed some local council approval docs even to get air conditioning installed in my unit (Sydney CBD). I ended up not bothering.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/06/2019 - 12:22

              @jace88: Why would you give a general example of the amount of documentation that isn't relevant to the discussion?

              What relevance does an air conditioning install have?

              • jace88 on 03/06/2019 - 20:23

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The point was something which sounds like it should obvious and straightforward with OCs and strata may not be. And given both involve seeking approval for modifying some aspect of the common property, my example is relevant.

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/06/2019 - 13:10

                  @jace88: Your example is irrelevant as
                  1. There are existing compliant Powerpoints
                  2. Council approval is not required
                  3. An Electrician can complete all paperwork
                  4. OC risk assessment will be quick and short, as its an upgrade to an existing Powerpoint.

                  You're overcomplicating a rather simple process using irrelevant examples that required council and plumbing certificates which are not required here.

                  Feel free to provide an example of a 3 phase, or equivalent, install that did require extensive paperwork. If you have one.

                  • jimbo jones on 04/06/2019 - 16:00

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: won't all these be wired up to the same fuse/circuit? More than a few cars being charged and it will get tripped?

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/06/2019 - 18:43

                      @jimbo jones: I don't have a ticket, and don't mess with something that can kill me, but they'll run it all the way to the board. Far easier as there's an existing install.

                  • jace88 on 04/06/2019 - 22:43

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Well it sounds like it should be easy @zeggie . Hopefully the Op is able to get it all approved and installed before the other owners complain.

    • meowsers on 02/06/2019 - 15:30

      To install a charger in the basement, like so many others have done.

  • 1Kenobi on 02/06/2019 - 15:45
    +2

    How much for a Telsa Model S (used) ?

    • meowsers on 02/06/2019 - 15:47
      +4

      Depending on which year and options from 70/80k-150k+

      • cloudy on 03/06/2019 - 16:30

        What year and cost was yours?

  • ozoner on 02/06/2019 - 17:06

    Can you supply us an address please, I have a few bitcoin miners I want to "loan you".

    • Ti-au on 02/06/2019 - 17:57
      +2

      Is it worth even the money to drive to Op?

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