Debt Recovery - Help with locating Debtor

Llacien on 07/05/2019 - 17:15

Dear All,
I'm in the process recovering a Debt from a a really dodgy used car dealer in Western Sydney.
I've gone through all the lengthy process at the NSW Small Claims Tribuna and got a Judgement Order in my favour.

The Debtor has also ignored all of the legal notices from the court, sneakily managed to get away from the Garnishee Orders and Levy of Properties up to the point that the court may now issue a Warrant of Arrest.

This Warrant of Arrest, however is not automatically issued by the court, and I must now personally make another application and nominate an address where the Debtor can be located. (The Debtor's business address was nominated when the application for Debt Recovery was first made).

The Debtor however has now chosen to "vanish" and de-registered his business. The dealership lot has been emptied last month, website (with lots of negative google review) taken down and ABN deregistered.

All I have with me now is just the deactivated ABN number , previous business address and the business owner's name.

With my very limited resources, are there any way for me to track the Debtor down in order to apply for the Warrant of Arrest? Kinda bummer, when everything's seemed to be self-serviced with our Local Courts and they're just functioning to collect fees…

Hoping for someone more knowledgeable in this area could shed some light. Many thanks in advance.

Financial

Comments

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2019 - 17:23
    +3

    You need to contact a Process Server. They can locate and serve. For a fee.

    • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 11:07

      Process servers serve documents - they are not private eyes. Plus in many states all it takes to be a process server is registration with the court. So anybody can be one.
      So, the notion that a process server can help with location is wrong.
      A PI or the police can do that.

      Source: My daily work

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 15:25

        Then you are using a crap process server. You need to employ one of the big firms or individuals.

        You don't need to be a licensed PI to perform location/skip tracing using public and subscription databases.

        Source: My daily work.

        • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 15:36

          Maybe have a chat to your local court.

          You do not need to be a licensed PI to use public databases but they are pretty useless if someone does not want to be found.
          Sure, you can use electoral rolls etc. but if one wants to disappear, there will be no entry there etc.
          And access to say the driver's license database, or mobile phone records you can only get with a court order and the threshold is not that low which is why things like that lie within the domain of police.

          P.S.: A bit more decorum in language please. And do not be so judgmental - it seems you know everything about the law - are you a lawyer or just one of "those" people?

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 15:54

            @Lysander: My second paragraph was stand alone buy I think you have may have linked it with my second sentence. All the major process server firms will employ or contract private investigators. So your point is moot.

            • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 16:03

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Look, for example, give Hobart Magistrate Court a call - all process servers there are individuals, not firms.
              Those process servers are no PIs and do not employ anybody.
              It appears to me you are watching too much TV - in my whole career most servers were individuals and the few firms there were (in the UK) did not employ PI but in the rare occasion this was needed would outsource this work.

              Did you know that for the courts to accept and stamp documents you need to have the name, address and other details on the form before they stamp it and accept and you can serve it?
              Once you filed it, then you can employ a process server. That is the normal sequence, not process server first before having filed anything.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 16:11

                @Lysander: OP is in Sydney. I'm in Melbourne. You're in Brisbane. Why refer to a completely irrelevant jurisdiction?

                The three major process serving firms in Melbourne all handle service, field calls, skip tracing, repossessions. Same in Sydney.

                I am aware of Court document requirements. No sure why that's relevant to this post either, but good for you.

                • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 17:18

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Just because it says I am in Brisbane does not mean I currently am or that I do not know about the other jurisdictions.

                  It is relevant because you put the cart before the horses.

                  Process servers are typically engaged after filing the documents and to file documents name and address details are needed. Which is why PIs and police typically do location, not process servers.
                  Plus, if the person does not register their residence or lives with friends and moves around, even a PI can do very little. That is the problem why many transients committing criminal acts cannot be served by a process server but rather by the police, namely when they arrest them and they spend a night or two in holding.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:02

                    @Lysander:

                    It is relevant…

                    Except these horses are not located in Hobart, nor relevant to anything here.

                    Process servers are typically engaged after filing the documents

                    OP is not asking how to file the documents. OP hasn't requested any help here. Probably perfectly capable seeing as they are at this stage of the proceeding.

                    OP is asking for location. This is precisely what process server firms do. That is precisely what my original post answered.

                    Plus…..blah blah

                    Thanks for the lecture. Well aware and so are process servers and PIs.

                    That is the problem why many transients committing criminal acts

                    Another irrelevant tangent. This is a civil matter and doesn't involve a transient.

                    Whatever bee is in your bonnet, please let it free. Feel free to post and provide OP your own advice.

                    • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:09
                      -1

                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: He or she needs to see a lawyer - simple as that.

                      And is it great to know that YOU know that the person in question who has "vanished" is still in NSW rather than Victoria, QLD, or Tasmania, right!?? I am really impressed - I would love to cite Alan Shaw and his "hoot" comment here but I fear that would upset the mods. ;-)
                      He could be anywhere and that is the issue. Engaging a NSW firm might be futile if the person is in WA or in Tasmania (and there it is very easy to hide out - I have seen many cases where people had arrests warrants in QLD, NSW, and Vic and yet could live here quite easily - only when the do something here and get arrested the Police becomes active.

                      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:16

                        @Lysander:

                        He or she needs to see a lawyer

                        Why? OP is asking for a location service.

                        And is it great to know…blah blah

                        Never suggested I knew anything about the debtor.

                        Regardless, all the process server firms I deal with operate, or have agents, in all states and territories.

                        • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:16

                          @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: As I said, in Hobart, all process servers are individuals.

                          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:22

                            @Lysander: A process server, located in Hobart, can very much work for a process server firm.

                            Ludicrous to say otherwise. The largest firm in Tasmania services all areas. Do you honestly think a single person drives all over?

                            • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:25
                              -1

                              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The people in Hobart serve the Hobart area. The servers in Launceston serve that area. Normal.

                              I know the individuals here in Hobart which is where I currently am to work a case. They might be hired by a firm but they are not employed by them. They are individuals. I have been going to this court regularly and know the people there so unless you do to, personally and professionally, please do not tell me I am wrong.
                              And this is exactly what I meant in my other comments: accept that you can be wrong. That you do not know everything and everyone else knows nothing.
                              What you say might be true in some situations but not in ALL situations.

                              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:34

                                @Lysander: http://www.derwentmercantile.com.au/

                                One of the bigger firms.

                                No contractors or agents. All servers are paid staff. Process serving to location to investigations.

                                I await your apology.

                                • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:36
                                  -1

                                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Ha, ha, ha. They outsource too.

                                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:38

                                    @Lysander: I await your apology.

                                    I know for a fact they have a minimum 5 servers on staff. Completely opposite of your claim that "ALL process servers are individuals"

                                    • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:40

                                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I go by the list of people registered at court and nothing else. When you ask them for a list of servers this firm does not appear. They might have people who also serve but no pure process servers. Hell, I sometimes serve people and some of the other lawyers do too - that still does not make a process server and I would be insulted if you called me that.
                                      As I said, come here and ask them personally and then argue with them - don't just go by the internet. Is all your knowledge from internet/wikipedia - it would certainly clarify things for me.
                                      You can wait for an apology until "St Nimmerleinstag" - I hope that will do for you.

                                      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 18:46

                                        @Lysander:

                                        I go by the list of people registered at court and nothing else.

                                        So you are basing your entire argument on a list provided by a Court you have or are attending.

                                        Wow.

                                        A single court.

                                        Compelling argument.

                                        Guess there are no other firms operating in Tasmania except for that list! Guess the yellow pages must be full of imposters?

                                        Hell, I sometimes serve people and some of the other lawyers do too - that still does not make a process server

                                        Duh. They need the applicable licence valid in their jurisdiction.

                                        no pure process servers

                                        I would love to hear your definition of a "pure" process server.

                                        This is just laughable right about now.

                                        • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 18:53

                                          @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Mate, are you saying a lawyer cannot serve legal documents?

                                          As I said very early on, anybody can serve documents. ANYBODY. The list of people at court means that those are the people the court officially refers to.
                                          And this is the same at the great majority of courts in Australia.
                                          Of course you can ask your friend to serve documents but de facto in court it has more weight if somebody from the official list served it. That is what happens in fact. Don't start arguing whether that is fair or right as that is a different topic - it is what happens.

                                          Maybe use your skills to look up "St. Nimmerleinstag" or "Nel giorno di poi, del mese di mai" - you might find that interesting.

                                          A pure process server is a person who does this full time and does not have any other tasks.

                                          So, if I am a laywer that is my job and even if I occasionally serve legal documents for a colleague that does not make a process server or my profession or indeed one of the "officially registered" process servers.

                                          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 19:02

                                            @Lysander: Oh lord. Your tangents.

                                            You said "…..that does not make a process server". I agreed. Then you go off on a tangent.

                                            I never said anything remotely like a lawyer cannot serve.

                                            I said a process server needs a licence.

                                            I never you said you, or anybody, needs a licence to SERVE.

                                            • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 19:10

                                              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Well, it seems in order to respond quickly your writing does not make it too clear what refers to what.

                                              By the way, the "Oh Lord" is a bit insulting - I expected better from someone who seems to be set to be politically correct and points out racism on Ozbargain is rising. Racism is bad but insulting and patronising is nearly as bad (and I know as I have been a victim of all of it)

                                              You know what, I just had a crazy idea. Yes, it is a tangent

                                              Instead of telling people their interpretations of law etc. are wrong I am really curious what would happen if you put your amazing superpowers of "internet knowledge" to work to find great deals for this community as technically Ozbargain is about bargains and not the forums (they themselves are a tangent).
                                              That would be sooooo amazing and I am curious to see the outcome.

                                              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 08/05/2019 - 20:29

                                                @Lysander: I applaud that you've essentially given up on the argument you wished to press. You've abandoned it completely.

                                                You pressed a point. You stuck with it. I provided 1 real world example. You've finally fallen on your sword.

                                                • Lysander on 08/05/2019 - 20:51

                                                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: You are such a dreamer which in principle is very lovely and admirable. 😊
                                                  I just talked to some of my colleagues and they all find the "logic" utilised by you very amusing and rather "questionable".
                                                  Just come here and find out for yourself - and enjoy arguing with the courts - as I am convinced by now they are the only ones you might believe.
                                                  You know what my work is - what is yours given you use it as a source? Or is your work obtaining "internet knowledge" and then coming up with your "legal opinions" etc. on this site.

                                                  And find us some deals please rather than being patronising to the people who disagree with you or calling you out (Example: I don't have time to teach you the law - well, you cannot teach anybody as you are not qualified to do so and in fact are as qualified as the person you claim is wrong).
                                                  And take your own advice about being nice on this site, please.
                                                  Have a most wonderful night.

  • Fier2 on 07/05/2019 - 17:25

    Maybe try a current affair on channel 9? They seem pretty good at tracking people and harassing them. You just need to tell your story in a way that they will think it will make a good story for them…

  • mskeggs on 07/05/2019 - 17:31
    +5

    ASIC website will show the last address of company directors for $9.

    • steven6 on 07/05/2019 - 18:32
      +6

      Also try creditorwatch.com.au which has a free 2 week trial. It might(if someone else has searched for those details they will be available for free) have some useful details.

    • Rawrkun on 13/05/2019 - 11:18

      Just wandering if this address alone would be sufficient, for the sake of applying the Warrant of Arrest first.
      It seemed more logical for the Sherif to follow up with Debtor rather than expecting an ordinary person to be playing detective. Surely they would have access to more resources for this. Otherwise, it seemed like the Small Claim Tribunal is a joke and it's rather alarming how many crooks are able to get away so easily here in Australia.

      • mskeggs on 13/05/2019 - 11:52

        I guess the idea is if you have the ability to serve your judgement, you wouldn't want to pay inflated court costs to fund the sheriff doing so. And if the deadbeat is hard to track down, you can decide if the possible benefit is worth the effort, rather than complaining the sheriff isn't trying hard enough etc.

  • Ocker on 07/05/2019 - 19:06

    No win situation for you I am afraid.
    If the a…ole is so inclined he will simply file for bankruptcy and everything you have spent (and will spend) trying to nail him will be a dead loss.
    Happens time and time again.

  • bobbified on 07/05/2019 - 19:23
    +2

    The Debtor however has now chosen to "vanish" and de-registered his business. The dealership lot has been emptied last month, website (with lots of negative google review) taken down and ABN deregistered.

    Mind giving us an idea how much you're chasing?
    It seems like he's trying quite hard to disappear so assuming it's not a small amount and it must be worth his effort to do what he's done.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/05/2019 - 08:32

      Small Claims Court. Will be under 20k.

      Debtor probably has multiple people chasing him or her.

  • His_Holiness on 08/05/2019 - 12:20
    +3

    Electoral roll search. Good chance he may have updated his details as the election is right around the corner. You can do it for free in person at an AEC office.

  • chumlee on 08/05/2019 - 20:34

    Go to your local library. They will have a copy of the electoral role and you can search for those with same name and start a process of elimination

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