Dispute with Landlord after Water Metering Mishap

Lbroke-student on 01/05/2019 - 16:21

Hi everyone,

My housemate and I are seeking some advice after being requested to pay a plumber's invoice. We lease a two bedroom unit managed by a body corp and we noticed our quarterly water bills doubling. After the first doubled bill we contacted our water provider and they advised that we should locate our meter and perform a leak test. Upon inspection of the property we were unable to find our water meter corresponding to our bill so we contacted the property manager (real estate agent) to ask about its location. After several correspondences and sending photos of all the meters we could find, the property manager informed us that some meters for the units were locked up and we could arrange to pick up a key during working hours from body corporate to access the meters using them as an intermediary. We called our water service provider again to try to ascertain the exact location of water meter before taking this step and during this process had our account balance cleared by providing some concession entitlements. We left the process there as we had no current outstanding balance owed to our water provider.

Three months later we received our next water bill which had doubled once again from the previous one. Upon receiving this we contacted property manager again and requested a plumber as we suspected a water leak. Knowing that a leak test had not been performed, this request was approved and a plumber was sent out to inspect the unit on behalf of the landlord. The plumber found no leak at the property and found that we had been incorrectly billed by our water provider for a meter that wasn't ours. The meter for our unit was one located outside of the locked area and was accessible, however we did not test this meter previously as we believed it was for a neighbouring unit and we had no right to interfere with our neighbours utilities under the body corporate guidelines.

A week later, we received an email from the property manager requesting us to pay the plumber's invoice as no leak had been found. The plumber's invoice is for significantly more than the water bill. Are we obligated to pay for this? We believe we took reasonable and logical steps in this process and were not informed that we would be liable for the cost of the plumber if no leak was found when the property manager approved the request with full knowledge of the situation.

TDLR; Landlord wants us to pay for plumber after they approved a leak inspection and found we were incorrectly billed for another meter.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • GG57 on 01/05/2019 - 16:27
    +5

    My view is that the Body Corporate should pay for the plumber, being a investigative maintenance visit to the property (not specific to any unit).

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 17:12
      +1

      Would it matter that the visit was initially intended for one unit?

  • wizzy on 01/05/2019 - 16:31

    It is my understanding that a landlord can charge a tenant for the cost of a tradesperson if the tenant reports a problem when there isn't really a problem. I assume this is to prevent tenants making constant unfounded complaints that cost the landlord money for no reason. It may vary by state, and I could also be wrong.

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 17:09
      +1

      Located in VIC if that is at all helpful.

  • dcep on 01/05/2019 - 16:34
    +9

    we contacted our water provider and they advised that we should locate our meter and perform a leak test.
    plumber found no leak at the property and found that we had been incorrectly billed by our water provider for a meter that wasn't ours.

    forward the bill to water provider

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 17:08
      +1

      Will definitely call up the water provider to follow up, thanks!

      • Hardicus on 01/05/2019 - 18:34
        +5

        I have worked for a water authority before and it was common place (although sometimes you needed to get in contact with the right person) to have plumber's bills paid if our error resulted in the plumbers visit (generally meter misreads, but wrong meter is an even bigger error potentially going back a long time). However it's also possible the body corporate may be in charge of providing the meter details to the water authority, so it may be their fault that the data was incorrect, in which case the water authority will likely refer you back to them.

        • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 18:49
          +1

          Thank you for your comment. I will definitely pursue this with the water authority/ body corporate as I don't want either us or the landlords to be unfairly out of pocket in these circumstances.

  • nwa on 01/05/2019 - 16:39
    -1

    Tough one but I say the PM/landlord pays, you didn't help as at the end of the day you suspected a leak without evidence and contact the PM, who should have asked for evidence before sending a plumber, or should have managed this better by saying if there is no leak than charge applies, or try harder to locate the meter and perform the test first. The PM/landlord should know where their meter is, plumbers should only be sent in emergencies or plumbing problems not billing problems.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 01/05/2019 - 16:47
    +4

    You reported a water leak. There was no water leak. Your situation did not require a plumber no matter how you spin it. Pay the bill.

    You failed to identify your meter. Had you looked at the meters, compared to the meter number on your bill, performed a leak test (which would stop flow of water to your residence), you would have established you and/or the water distributor had setup billing for the wrong meter.

    You were advised to perform a leak test but you failed to follow through and ignored the situation.

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 17:27

      Thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree that the situation did not need to involve a plumber in hindsight but based on the information two groups of people tied to the property(ourselves and the property manager/landlord) had available both agreed that this was an appropriate course of action. The property manager did not advise of performing the leak test or any further investigation, or a cost being transferred to us at any stage.

      As for setting up billing and meter identification of our unit, from my understanding this was a process done via body corporate and the water company a very long time ago and when commencing our tenancy billing was transferred to us automatically.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:41
        -1

        I agree that the situation did not need to involve a plumber in hindsight

        So pay the bill.

        based on the information two groups of people tied to the property(ourselves and the property manager/landlord) had available both agreed that this was an appropriate course of action.

        No. The Water Authority told you to do a leak test. You did not perform a leak test.

        The property manager did not advise of performing the leak test or any further investigation, or a cost being transferred to us at any stage.

        Why would the property manager advise this? The Water Authority did. Property Manager/Landlord is not responsible for water utilities other than the premises must be serviceable. The Property was serviceable. You reported a leak (which didn't exist) without previously conducting a leak test (which you were advised to do). Of course the cost would be transferred to you.

        Pay the bill.

        from my understanding this was a process done via body corporate and the water company a very long time

        Irrelevant. You reported a leak. There was no leak. Pay the bill.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2019 - 12:50

          Harsh but objective.

  • Meho2026 on 01/05/2019 - 17:24
    +6

    Put yourself in the landlord and property managers situation, you requested a plumber and presented to them that there was a water leak, there was no leak so they can not be held responsible for the invoice. They are not responsible in any way for the actual problem.

    You wont be able to claim from the water company if they advised you to locate your meter and you failed to do that. It couldnt have been that hard to identify the actual meter given the plumber identified the issue on one visit.

    The only other angle could be given that the water company rep and yourself were unable to identify the exact meter, maybe you can argue that the body corporate are responsible by failing to have clearly identified individual meter. However the fact that the plumber was able to do it suggests its actually not that difficult.

    I think you stitched yourself up by assuming there was a leak and requesting the plumber. Had you kept complaining to the water company and property manager without doing that then they wouldve figured it out sooner or later.

    • Downvoter on 01/05/2019 - 17:38

      This. /thread

    • Angryman123 on 01/05/2019 - 17:39
      +1

      Is op suppose to have the same skills at their disposal as a plumber does to find the water meter? Also it is not really viable for a poor student to pay an unreasonable and unfairly high water bill and "waiting" for someone else to solve their problem

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:43

        It's not rocket surgery to:

        1. Locate meter
        2. Confirm meter number
        3. Perform leak test
    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 18:02

      We are definitely aware that it is an unfortunate situation for both parties.

      Unfortunately we are limited in our plumbing expertise and we restricted by body corporate in our lease agreement with interfering with other residents utilities so were unable to test other meters at the property to identify ours. I don't believe our meter and the issue would have been correctly identified without the intervention from a professional, whether it was a plumber or a water company rep, at the end of the day.

  • Angryman123 on 01/05/2019 - 17:46

    Did you have to provide evidence of a leak? Or did the real estate agent take your word that there was a leak?

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 17:48
      +2

      We provided our 3 previous quarterly bills to show the increase in water usage. No additional evidence was requested by the property manager.

  • try2bhelpful on 01/05/2019 - 17:46
    +1

    You will, probably, end up wearing this but the body corporate/landlord should’ve identified exactly which was your meter to you. I think people here are being a tad harsh, we don’t know how the plumber managed to identify which was your meter and, obviously, the provider was getting it wrong.

  • qwerty on 01/05/2019 - 17:58
    -1

    I would contact the enegery and water ombudsman and see what they say

    https://www.ewov.com.au/

    Because none of it would have happened if they didnt read the wrong meter and they read the wrong meter twice

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 18:05
      +1

      Will definitely follow this up, thank you! It actually wasn't as simple as a wrong reading, my unit and a neighbouring unit's meters were listed incorrectly based on what a water company rep said. This has been the case for over 15 months and quite possibly a lot longer.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:45

      EWOV don't have jurisdiction and won't assist. This doesn't involve the water bill. The dispute is a plumber's bill - a third party.

  • Ocker on 01/05/2019 - 18:03
    +1

    Had you have pushed the point about locating/identifying your meter then you could have simply done a meter reading and it would have been readily apparent the meter and bill readings did not align.
    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 18:08

      This is not actually true, the meter wasn't read incorrectly. The meter listed as the one corresponding to our unit was that of a neighbouring unit. We pushed with the property manager and they contacted body corporate about the location to no success. We also inquired with the water supplier about the meters location on the property.

      • redforever on 01/05/2019 - 19:32

        you meant the meter number doesn't match? how long have you been at the place? have you been paying for a different meter all along? which state are you located? did you apply for the water account?

        • broke-student on 01/05/2019 - 19:39

          Correct, the meter number on the water bills and in our water provider's system was for a meter not connected to our unit. We've been leasing for 15 months in VIC and paying for the wrong usage all along. Our provider is investigating the case and we've been assured we'll be provided a rebate if we have paid in excess of our usage. As we are leasing, the account was pre-existing and usage has just been billed to us since moving in.

          • redforever on 02/05/2019 - 10:07
            +1

            @broke-student: so the plumber did find an issue. I.e. the incorrect water meter is registered in your bill. not sure if you would be able to trace the correct meter to your unit on your own as it is a multi dwelling unit. I would insist that you are not a professional and hence it's not reasonable for you to resolve this.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:47
              +1

              @redforever: A leak test serves 2 purposes. Confirm whether there is a leak AND confirm that meter is servicing your property.

              Had OP performed the leak test, the issue would have been immediately identifiable.

              • redforever on 02/05/2019 - 13:57
                +1

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: but how would this be possible if the meter with the number listed on the water bill is not accessible to the OP. not sure about the set up, but OP, are all the meter plain visible that you can trace it to your unit?

                • broke-student on 02/05/2019 - 14:26

                  @redforever: The meters are located at various locations around the property and cannot be traced back to the units visually. My housemate and I as well as the plumber could not identify where the water meter listed on the bill was located. A rep from the water company took over 20 minutes yesterday while investigating with full documentation to find the meter as it was completely covered.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 15:05

                    @broke-student:

                    A rep from the water company took over 20 minutes yesterday while investigating with full documentation to find the meter as it was completely covered.

                    Again…doesn't require a plumber.

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 15:05
                  +1

                  @redforever: It was accessible. OP didn't bother to find it.

                  "We left the process there as we had no current outstanding balance owed"

                  • Angryman123 on 02/05/2019 - 15:30

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: @zeggie if OP performed the leak test and because they were given someone else's water meter, would they have shut off someone else's water and potentially cause more issues. My understanding is that a leak test should be performed over 2 hours. That sounds terrible for the random person that has their water shut off for no reason

                    • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2019 - 15:33

                      @Angryman123: … or they could turn off their own water supply and not someone else's.

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 15:47
                      -1

                      @Angryman123: Did you read what you wrote? If OP turns off the wrong meter, they'd immediately know it's wrong as they'd still have running water. Not 2 hours later. There's little to no impact on the neighbor.

  • macfudd on 01/05/2019 - 21:56
    +3

    If I was the landlord, I'd cover that plumbers bill, or be getting it paid by the water company. I'd rather have a tenant who spoke up when there were issues and in this situation I suspect you'd not bother asking for a professional to investigate anything in the future given whats happened.
    Plus it's not like you were crying wolf, there was an actual issue - just not the one you thought but you made efforts to investigate. Though honestly this is all coming from the property manager and the owner probably hasn't even been told about the issue yet.

    I had a similar situation when I was renting an apartment - air con wouldn't turn on. Checked all the breakers inside as requested by property manager, nothing tripped. Assumed a fault with the unit itself. They got a repairman out - turns out there was another set of AC breakers for the units in a cupboard in the basement of the apartment building. The repairguy knew that cupboard might exist, found it and fixed it in 2 mins. I got lucky in that before billing me, the property manager asked the owner first - who blew up because he knew about the cupboard and could have fixed it himself.

  • Nice one baby on 01/05/2019 - 23:25
    +1

    Double tap

  • Nice one baby on 01/05/2019 - 23:26
    +1

    I wouldn't pay the plumbers bill. They didn't advise you that there might be a cost to the service.

    Advise them that you won't be paying it as the problem was caused solely by them.

    If they ask you about it too many times bring up the fact that they may owe you some compensation as you have been over paying your water bill.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:49

      They didn't advise you that there might be a cost to the service.

      Standard clause in a Lease.

      as the problem was caused solely by them.

      Landlord is not responsible for water utilities, other than the premises must be serviceable. OP had running water thus the premises are serviced.

      they may owe you some compensation as you have been over paying your water bill

      Issue between OP and the Water Authority. Landlord is not a party to that dispute.

  • gumbo45c on 02/05/2019 - 08:46
    +2

    You or the landlord should be directing the bill to the water provider. The test was done at their direction and they have been found to be in error.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 10:50

      Water Authority did not direct OP to hire a third party tradesperson.

      • Hardicus on 02/05/2019 - 18:52
        +1

        No but the plumber was enlisted based on incorrect information on the OP's bill. Rightly or wrongly, there is scope for the water authority to pay the plumber's bill. I have worked for a water authority and this is common practice.

        Also of note, if the wrong meter was assigned to OP's account, they may have been under/overcharged for many years. Generally legislation will require a refund to be issued to the OP if they have been overcharged (I'm not across Vic legislation though).

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 19:35

          OP didn't know there was incorrect information. They failed to perform a leak test. Requested a plumber to find a leak. Nothing to do with the water authority here.

          will require a refund to be issued to the OP

          Obviously. No one is disputing that.

          • Hardicus on 02/05/2019 - 20:28
            +1

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: It absolutely has something to do with the water authority, they issued a bill with incorrect information on it that led the customer to believe they had a leak. In my job this happens all the time and there is a process in place to reimburse people who get the wrong information and call out a plumber, even though we go to great pains to inform customers to do leak checks prior to engaging a plumber. I agree OP should have conducted a leak test as directed (believe me I have had this argument many times), but even ignoring all the confusion around the matter (meter not accessible, body corp responsibilities and guidelines etc), he would still have a decent chance of the water authority paying the plumber's bill. This is not a matter of who's at fault or not, the OP has a shot to have the bill paid, he should argue that with the water authority because we will likely come out ahead.

            I'm playing devil's advocate here because generally, I am on the other side of these matters and I get frustrated by how we give in to people who didn't do what we told them to do, but on the balance of probabilities, I think OP has a good chance.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/05/2019 - 22:31
              -2

              @Hardicus: No. It has nothing to do with the water authority.

              There are 2 separate issues here. Don't muddle them. Incorrect water bill and the plumbers bill.

              OP requested the Property Manager of the Landlord to arrange a plumber due to a "leak". Water authority is not involved in that trifecta of exchanges.

              OP should have performed a leak test and confirmed the meter number. There was no leak, OP didn't test for a leak, OP erred in requesting a plumber, the Landlord should be reimbursed. Their naivety is nobody's fault but their own.

              I'll normally support tenants rights over Landlords, but in this instance it is 0% the Landlord's fault.

  • SydneySwan on 02/05/2019 - 09:58
    +2

    As an owner of an investment unit, I have always forwarded bills to body corporate where it has been some setup in the past or misinformation from body corporate manager that has caused us to call out a tradesman. We have never billed the tenant for this.

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