How Is Everyone Doing? Is The Economic Pressure Affecting You?

moo on 07/04/2019 - 18:17

Keen to start a bit of a conversation to ascertain how fellow OzBargainers are doing in the current economic climate. Personally I’ve noticed that the cost of daily essentials and groceries have gone up a lot on price although albeit covertly (e.g. same price but less quantity/quality). Also noticed that a lot of things which were made locally, is now being manufactured in Asia, for example Huggies nappies which is now either made in a China or Singapore. If the supply chain of businesses are being leaned and optimised (well more than usual anyways), is this a sign that we may we moving to tougher times?

I can’t imagine what it would be like for smaller retailers and restaurant owners, it must be pretty tough? I also can’t help but wonder the impact (and influence) OzBargain has on the sustainability of smaller businesses… are we actually doing them a disservice in the long run? Plus OzBargain also tends to also drive consumers to purchase things which they typically wouldn’t have…

So yea.. just a bit of a reflection post. Keen to hear your thoughts, retailers and consumers alike.

General Discussion

Comments

  • Hybroid on 07/04/2019 - 18:19
    +31

    Nope. On the contrary, many of us moved here due to higher salaries, more job opportunities and much much better lifestyle.

    • moo on 07/04/2019 - 18:36
      +4

      Where from if you don’t mind me asking? I don’t disagree at all that the lifestyle here in Aus is an awesome one. One could also further argue that the lifestyle here in WA is much better from a work life balance perspective!

      • Soluble on 07/04/2019 - 18:40
        +1

        I agree with the WA comment(Perth) vs other capitals, but I think country Vic offers a great balance (Can't comment on other states as I haven't been out of the capitals)

        • serpserpserp on 10/04/2019 - 22:18

          Have you ever lived outside of Victoria?

          • thefud on 12/04/2019 - 13:25
            +1

            @serpserpserp: Have lived in Sydney and Canberra in the last few years and now live in country Victoria (Geelong) and working in Melbourne. Can confirm:
            - Less traffic
            - Cheaper Rent
            - Same Zone as my 'outer suburb of Melbourne' counterparts (meaning I pay around $40 a week in travel); get a seat from time to time and takes 50 minutes to get to the city in the morning. Line is marked for 'fast rail' investment of $4bn.
            - Cheaper insurances, registration and can afford to live in modern property meaning less spent on utilities
            - Have experienced 16% growth on my property in the last 12 months, with reports showing Geelong still going strong for the next couple of years. One low SES suburb close to where we are has experienced over 21% growth in last 12 months
            - Spent heaps less on housing when I purchased it two years ago
            - Don't have to deal with the bore of Canberra and high housing costs, cost of living etc. of Sydney
            - Our household salary is more then double the national median, and we are under 30 (I am 27, partner is 25)

            There is no way I would change my life at the moment; in the future I plan to work in Geelong, if and when we have a family.

            • serpserpserp on 12/04/2019 - 15:27

              @thefud: Doesn't a 7 day myki to Geelong cost $89 while a Metro Myki pass cost $44? From experience that is 50 minutes on a good day.
              Everything else is fine. Just not a fan of Geelong, and I have live in a lot of places in country Victoria. Geelong is definitely a regional centre and hardly "country"

              I really hope the fast rail actually happens for Geelong because money has been thrown at it before over the last 30 years and they have bungled it every time.

              • thefud on 12/04/2019 - 15:47

                @serpserpserp: There are horses and paddocks around me so I suppose that's a kind of country? ;) As we are closer to the city, means we are considered a Zone 1-2 Fare and get it for the same as the city - Geelong actual is close to double.

                Agreed on the utter waste of money and terrible planning for residents of Tarneit/Wyndham Vale. Absolute shambles from that perspective. Like you, hope $4bn isn't pissed up the wall if committed.

                • serpserpserp on 12/04/2019 - 20:10

                  @thefud: Oh right so you don't get on at the Geelong train station? If you do that must add to the commute time.

            • MementoMori on 12/04/2019 - 15:32

              @thefud: As a side note I drove to work into the CBD, 8kms, on a Friday during school holidays. It took me an hour. Normally it's 40-45mins. I might as well live in regional Vic like you!

      • Hybroid on 07/04/2019 - 18:44
        +4

        London —> Sydney.

        Hearing great things about Perth (like Metronet) but gonna be another 5 or so years till the real boom starts.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/04/2019 - 20:43
          +3

          Depends on your industry, there are some good opportunities in Australia but they are quite thin. You can make enough to survive, but you can do that in any country.

          Lots of people I went to Selective School with have moved to the US to form their own startups.

          I know a few very close to me moved to the Greater Bay Area, specialising in surveillance technologies.

          I think I'm the only one stuck here with my flailing startup.

          • mskeggs on 08/04/2019 - 06:37
            +16

            @[Deactivated]: If you're on social media with them, let them know I appreciate our best and brightest taking their publicly funded education to further prop up the surveillance state.
            What a moral vacuum, at least have a speck of self awareness.

            • Lastchancetosee on 08/04/2019 - 08:33
              +2

              @mskeggs: Maybe they're doing it so they can pay their HECS debt faster 😉

              • drprox on 08/04/2019 - 19:23
                +5

                @Lastchancetosee: Maybe they're doing it so that they never have to pay their HECS?

            • misu p on 09/04/2019 - 14:22
              +15

              @mskeggs: Wait… isn't this actually very hypocritical… I mean Australia has a policy of immigration where you get more points the higher school you went to… meaning they get here a lot of people that have studied elsewhere (like me) and they benefit from the education paid by other countries. I do understand your point but Australia has no base to be upset about it. They benefit a lot from other people coming here that already have a degree. This is what merit-based immigration is all about.

              • mskeggs on 09/04/2019 - 17:58
                +22

                @misu p: The Australian immigration program works against the economic and environmental interests of people already here, as resources are stretched between more users and increased workers contribute to lower wages.
                I think Australia used to have a very successful immigration program - newcomers arrived at a rate that was manageable as new infrastructure was developed and wages grew faster than inflation.
                In the mining boom, Howard doubled the number of annual arrivals, and both sides of politics have kept it very high ever since.
                This looks good in the figures, as the growing population spikes GDP. But the infrastructure and economic growth haven’t kept up, so wages are flat and house prices have soared and the roads and trains are over crowded.

                If you run Harvey Norman this is great - you automatically get more customers every year without having to do much. But if you are a young person buying a house, or an international student unable to find work except for illegal wages, or a sick person depending on public hospitals, or a person with limited employment prospects, or a refugee - well, things are worse than they need be.

                Dialing back annual immigration to numbers similar to the late 1990s or early 2000s would be a responsible way to deal with these issues, but instead we have extremists who argue racist anti-immigration policies, because there are people who feel hard done by due to immigration who support them.

                In any case, it is self correcting. Our best and brightest are already leaving as they can get better pay and less crowding abroad.
                Over time, the highly skilled immigrants that have moved here in past generations will discover the same. I suspect that even then our political parties will keep migration high to please the big end of town.

                As for hypocrisy, fair call, there is plenty of hypocrisy in global politics. My preference would be to provide training for our young people to fill our needs rather than leave them untrained and seek a migrant.

                In any case, the best way to influence these sort of things is to just keep plugging away at the local elected member, asking why services are so stretched, and why it is so hard for young people to buy a house, and why suggesting lower immigration is branded racist. Maybe the only way is to suggest a truly racist policy and drop the annual numbers by blocking Brits and Kiwis and Yanks but maintaining other countries.

                It’s better to address problems rather than wait for Pauline Hanson or Fraser Anning to stir up their hate.

                • sickre on 10/04/2019 - 06:31
                  +9

                  @mskeggs: I agree. I'm young but have had a successful career, starting with an academic scholarship to high school (ENTER score 94.65), attendance at the top Australian Uni, and an MBA.

                  I was getting paid about $120k working in central Melbourne for an Australian mega corporation in my mid-20s (a couple of years ago).

                  Running the figures against my sister who is capable but not outstanding, she works as a teacher and gets paid $80k.

                  After tax, mortgage costs differences (inner city vs suburbs for a 2br townhouse), and considering the extra 6 weeks of holidays teachers get above everyone else, I am in the same financial position as her. Considering that I have to deal with complex bureaucracy everyday, and the congestion and poor demographics of the CBD, I would say I am in a worse position overall than she is. As a single guy, working and living in the suburbs is a lot better than the CBD, which is dominated by Asian men.

                  So, what has been the point of the last 20 years of my life, studying and working hard? I could have coasted through public school, gone to a standard university, and been in a better end position. My parents would have saved money on the other 50% of the private school fees not covered by the scholarship so I would have had a more pleasant adolescence materially.

                  The solution for me has been to leave Australia and start my own company overseas. I'm making 40% of what I used to earn, but I have the same quality of life, work less, can take quick and easy holiday trips, and am a lot more successful socially and romantically here than in Australia. I've gone through the cycles of grief, but for a long time was quite bitter that I had been sold a lie. Australia has 'invested' a lot in me in terms of education and training, but now in the prime of my life I am working to benefit a foreign nation instead, due to the deteriorating social and physical conditions in Australian cities.

                  The Australian economy is built on our innate natural resources and we just recycle the proceeds through the population. There is no incentive or benefit here to being exceptionally intelligent (unless you are an exceptional property developer or immigration services provider).

                  • Ghosteye on 10/04/2019 - 08:00

                    @sickre: As someone who is currently in uni and graduating in about 3-2 years that doesn't sound like something that I want at all :(

                    • sickre on 10/04/2019 - 11:05
                      +2

                      @Ghosteye: Melbourne and Sydney are forecast to hit 8 million people by 2050 due to mass immigration. Just angle your career and education to be able to work outside of those cities. Any extra income you earn will just be chewed up by housing costs and progressive taxation, with probably long commute times as well.

                      I got particularly lucky that I was able to string a series of jobs with multiple companies together in a single industry to hit a high salary quite early, including skipping a graduate program and starting at individual contributor level when I was 21. Without that luckiness (or with the poorer market situation that many graduates enter into now) the situation would have been even less favourable.

                      I studied at the University of Melbourne and learnt everything in the first 1.5 years. The full three years was a waste of time with a lot of repeated content. Since I already had a job and was working professionally I just cruised through with minimal effort.

                      After a few years it was the same thing in corporate Australia. I pushed eagerly to overhaul core, inefficient practices and systems for years with little interest from management. It was nothing personal - they just weren't interested in increased efficiency since it would be used to justify reducing headcount and threaten their own positions. Eventually I just settled into working on slow and steady improvements.

                      Why excel anyway? With a promotion I would be earning maybe $180k, with a huge amount being taxed, and much increased stress and number of hours. At $120k and sensible living I had enough money to afford anything I wanted (except buying a decent house). I'm lucky to have not 'invested' in property seeing the recent declines, and the fact that having a tax-effective Australian property only makes sense if you have Australian income to place against it. My forecast is that Melbourne and Sydney property will plateau for 5-10 years, declining in real or nominal values.

                      If I was to begin again right now, I would do Uni for a year or two for the social aspect and core concepts, then drop out and become a plumber. Build up some cash and experience doing that for 5 years and then start my own business. Manage it well and you can easily retire in your 30s and do whatever you want.

                      By the way - all of these problems are not unique to me. I have a lot of academically successful friends from high shool and university, and other friends as doctors and lawyers, who are all dissatisfied with life in Australia. Barely any of my friends have children or their own houses and the happiest seem to be those who have left (particularly to the USA). By contrast looking at run-of-the-mill suburbanite friends and acquaintances without degrees and living and working in the suburbs, life seems to be a lot better for them.

                    • brad1-8tsi on 10/04/2019 - 13:19
                      +2

                      @Ghosteye: My daughter just finished her Bachelor of Science (Environmental) with HD average and Dean's Merit award. She's articulate and has work experience.

                      She is so pissed off that Environmental Scientists are on the skills shortage list and when she can't get an interview for the limited number of jobs being advertised.

                      • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2019 - 20:35

                        @brad1-8tsi: I have the same Degree, also got Deans Award and Industry Award. I couldn't get an interview and had to move to Alice Springs to get a job in a not for profit. I then did some post grad and some certificates (to add to my trade cert as a licensed electrician).

                        There are very limited opportunities for environmental science, and the jobs there are , are mostly poorly paid. Enviro Science students typically aren't in it for the dosh….Tell her to consider studying Project Management

                        • brad1-8tsi on 11/04/2019 - 08:38
                          +1

                          @[Deactivated]: Yet, if you have a BSc(e) you get extra points if you wish to immigrate here. It's nuts.

                  • T1OOO on 10/04/2019 - 09:01
                    +5

                    @sickre: man an actual decent discussion on OZ for once,.. if you see the majority of nonses here 99.9% its just crap which sadly is reflective of our society.

                    now you sir got a point and realised that you had been towing the wrong line…. you sister might have 1 less bedroom but she has the and had the better life, the more you earned on the excess you got over her was also taxed harsh so diminished it by half, so yeah all that coasting really cost her was about $15k pa and you did all that work , killed your self for the same amount.. and now you know it wasnt a great deal!

                    its a shame that you only find out after not before, and that is where most of society is toeing the same line.

                    the real goal was to earn more, buy a SMALLER house than your sister - pay it off, and buy out your freedom! to do what you really wanted in this life, because right now we are just economic slaves, its corporate concentration camps, trust me, ive even seen where they burry the bodies, they are called cemeteries!

                    Globolisations is happening and we can no compete, there are some really bloody smart people being let into this country, twice as smart as me and willing to work for half the price, so yeah i see the writing on the wall already.

                    • Icecold5000 on 11/04/2019 - 08:24
                      +2

                      @T1OOO: I agree with this. Saved a decent amount of dosh so I can afford a house in a regional area. Paying cheap rent in metro Sydney. Talking to people who buy in outer Sydney for 1.5 and I am thinking you’ll be sucking corporate ccok for the next 40 years to pay that off. Who want to live with the fear for decades when a recession can end in bankruptcy?

                      Successive govnts are working against the Australian people by ratcheting up immigration, privatisation and enhancing monopolistic business. Despite that his being OB a lot of stuff here many don’t need. It’s ok to consume but think about the future and what will happen if you lose your job. Your stuff isn’t going to save you.

                  • drfuzzy on 11/04/2019 - 14:47

                    @sickre: It is about to get worse under Bill Shorten who has pledged to increase taxes to middle and high incomes earners like yourself. It may be better to move, work less, or retire early.

                    • Name on 11/04/2019 - 21:14

                      @drfuzzy: Can you please elaborate on labour pledging to increase tax to middle and high income earners? This is the first I've read of it and I can't find anything reliable through googling.

                  • Baghern on 18/04/2019 - 15:45

                    @sickre: 120k in your mid 20s is a high starting since 90% of people won't reach that…

                    You're prospects is potentially executive level and CEO type roles, 200k easy by your mid 30s, potentially millions

                    You seem to be somewhat delusional about what you have and should have at such a young age.

                    Also living in the city has huge advantages over the suburbs in terms of infrastructure, there's a reason its substantially more expensive than the suburbs.

                • ihbh on 10/04/2019 - 07:49

                  @mskeggs:

                  My preference would be to provide training for our young people to fill our needs rather than leave them untrained and seek a migrant.

                  There's an element of you can lead a horse to water …

                  Australia needs a cultural shift which will take a long time (but better now than never) - e.g. where the level of postgraduate education in Germany is expected or that of teachers in Finland is required.

                • greatlamp on 10/04/2019 - 12:59
                  +3

                  @mskeggs: Nah it is much easier to call people like you a racist

                  Then we express shock and horror that the only politicians who have the courage to mention these problems are unapologetic actual racists

                • apenman on 11/04/2019 - 16:03
                  +3

                  @mskeggs: @mskeggs The Australian immigration program works against the economic and environmental interests of people already here, as resources are stretched between more users and increased workers contribute to lower wages.
                  This is a misconception, and is driven by bad individual experiences(which do not average) and confirmation bias, that basically only counts the harshness of day-to-day life, rather than the broader benefits that are not directly experienced. Your economic interest is furthered by the immigrant who comes to Australia, takes a risk and starts a business, employing Australians, and paying taxes. Taxes that the Australian Government(unlike most other developed nations) relies on heavily to be 'In the black'.
                  The infrastructure growth is a teething problem. It requires investment and taking on debt, and the pollies are convinced debt is a bad word because the polls say so, and a brave politician is an oxymoron these days.

                  Our best and brightest are already leaving as they can get better pay and less crowding abroad. This second part is just wrong. There is no major city around the world, that is less crowded than Australian majors. You just have to look at how large Sydney/Melbourne are to realise this. People are leaving Australia, because there is no opportunity to make bajillions from knuckled headed, starry eyed VCs. No-one is leaving Australia for a comfortable lifestyle.

                  • mskeggs on 11/04/2019 - 16:17
                    +2

                    @apenman: Immigrants do sometimes start businesses and certainly pay taxes. But they also consume services including fixed goods that have to be shared by more people.
                    I am glad you see the lack of infrastructure keeping up is a problem, so do we agree that a suitable response is to slow the immigration rate for a while until it catches up? You make a convincing argument to do so by acknowledging the teething problem (that only became prevalent in the decade after the immigration rate was doubled).

                    You also make a good argument that immigration offers other benefits. I completely agree, and would never seek to return to the Australia of the 60s or 70s that struggled to offer any cultural diversity.

                    Just slow the wave of immigration until infrastructure catches up and wage growth returns to historic levels.

                    Ross Gittins is very moderate, and he makes similar points very clearly.
                    https://www.smh.com.au/business/immigration-the-cheap-and-na…

                    As for urban crowding, 1000 people is not a very large crowd at a football match, but you would claim it was overcrowded if we all had to arrive and leave via a single turnstile. Sydney and Melbourne cover a large area, but they are currently overwhelmed by the population growth that has exceeded the growth of supporting infrastructure. Saying this isn't a problem because it is a large area isn't addressing the problem.

                    • scandalous on 12/04/2019 - 06:29
                      +4

                      @mskeggs: Congratulations @mskeggs and @apenman for having a somewhat controversial discussion online that didnt disolve into name calling. Steel manning each others arguments good to see.

                • FrugalDealHunter on 12/04/2019 - 06:49
                  +1

                  @mskeggs: You just have to walk around Melbourne CBD during peak hour to see the over crowding. Have to fight to even find room to walk on the friggen footpath. I saw this poor bloke yesterday trying to get into a tram during peak hour with a pram. Forget the disabled or elderly trying to get by.

        • buderim11 on 08/04/2019 - 07:52
          +2

          A boom in what ?

          • Hybroid on 08/04/2019 - 12:40

            @buderim11: Infrastructure projects, investment and growth.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/04/2019 - 12:48
          +4

          Boom? Perth already had it's boom. It's a downhill freefall at the moment…

          • Hybroid on 09/04/2019 - 12:53

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: From the amount of design tenders and strategic planning ongoing, sounds like there might be a resurgence on the cards soon then.

        • lonewolf on 09/04/2019 - 16:34

          Most people I know are moving to london from sydney for lifestyle as well as cheaper costs. I have a lot of family over there and have spent many months there over the years including having lived there and i have noticed back in the day australia was far cheaper and slowly it actually overtook and became far more expensive than london as well as the quality of clothes and items were not at all comparable.

          • Hybroid on 09/04/2019 - 18:06
            +6

            @lonewolf: I guess it depends on each individual's case. I moved over a year ago and got a massive 60% increase in salary moving here. I find everything cheaper here; cars, fuel, clothing, food, everything's relatively cheaper than London. Even electronics are significantly cheaper when on offer here which rarely happens there unless it's Amazon. Maybe only rents are about on par but I chose to live in the city so that's on me.

            There is however a much much higher standard of living too. The weather, easy access to beaches, mountain ranges, hiking, watersports, adventures, food options, social places etc are a massive step up here without question. I struggle to see how London is a lifesyle improvement and would suggest most are mistaken in making that leap.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/04/2019 - 20:12

            @lonewolf: Unless your family is like out somewhere like Romford, I can't see how their cost of living is cheaper than Oz!

          • T1OOO on 10/04/2019 - 08:05
            +1

            @lonewolf: And the knife crime. ?? London 2000 deaths in last 3 years. Sign me up!

          • serpserpserp on 10/04/2019 - 22:34

            @lonewolf:

            Most people I know are moving to london from sydney for lifestyle as well as cheaper costs.

            Ok so lets break this down:

            Most people I know

            You must not know a lot of people.

            are moving to london from sydney for lifestyle

            Although Sydney really struggles with its congestion, the lifestyle there is excellent. I can't possibly see how London would be tons better unless you want to use it for a base to travel to other countries. I've loved visiting London but I could never live beyond the age of 30 years old. Really fun while your young. Horrible for families.

            as well as cheaper costs.

            Scratching my head to see where the cheaper costs might be. Potentially housing, but you aren't exactly getting a top house in London for AUD$1m either. Everything else there is more expensive and I dare say the standard of quality of things are much better in Australia. Sure you get great winter clothes in London, but outside of that? Struggling to think of something here.

    • frewer on 11/04/2019 - 12:28

      It is a struggle atm, I agree with most of what OP said. But I do prefer cryptocurrency.

      On the bigger picture … which is more worrisome

      Debt, Divorce and Death
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yF4qHwhpRI&ab_channel=WalkT…

      The Never ending rivers of debts
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroKy0XhQJs

      Post code 2570
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpRgA5sxBFU

  • Soluble on 07/04/2019 - 18:38
    +6

    I don't really understand the question. I assume ozbargainers buy what they can afford.

    One thing I agree on posts is support the smaller retailer for offering the price in the first place rather than price matching elsewhere.

    I actually think daily essentials are stagnate, or going down as the major retailers fight for every customer.

    If your prices increase, I check every 12 months to make sure my electricity, gas, internet is the best in the market.

  • Diji1 on 07/04/2019 - 18:40
    +27

    The countries economy has been going backwards for some time: national median wages have been dropping for over two decades as the Government signed Australia up for free trade agreements that most people did not want for obvious reasons.

    Privatisation/corporatisation has removed large amounts of money out of the economy (country usually) so that small and large businesses are no longer viable and yet prices continue upwards.

    The country is run by the wealthy to benefit themselves at everybody else's expense. So everybody reading this.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-26/frijters-foster-battl…

    • Hybroid on 07/04/2019 - 18:45
      +3

      The country is run by the wealthy to benefit themselves at everybody else's expense. So everybody reading this.

      So pretty much absolutely every single country except communist ones, but even then sometimes.

      • MessyG on 08/04/2019 - 19:48
        +12

        Au contraire I think that is communist-run countries in a nutshell. Rich elite controlling and starving the masses.

        • WinstonWithAY on 10/04/2019 - 22:04

          Not really exclusive to any particular ideology. Apartheid South Africa was hardly communist, neither was Tsarist Russia nor any of the far-right military dictatorships in South America

    • nomoneynoproblems on 07/04/2019 - 22:24
      +12

      Not only that, we just don't really have much going for us outside resources. The government has let everyone in to provide cheap labour to their mates stagnating wages and driving up housing. It's a good shot in the arm but we're actually getting full. Construction has slowed down and so has new car sales, aka canary in coal mine. Now is a good time to buy gold or the yen because bad times a ahead.

      • Hybroid on 07/04/2019 - 22:28
        -2

        Construction has slowed down

        Not in Sydney. Huge infrastructure projects are ongoing for next decade+ to prepare for the future growth of the city including the split into 3 distinct metropolises with key focuses (e.g. Western city will have new airport, universities, research labs, space centres etc..)

        https://www.greater.sydney/metropolis-of-three-cities/vision…

        • Dancasper on 09/04/2019 - 07:58

          I think nomoneynoproblems was referring to residential / commercial development construction.

          The State government is now spending what they reaped from the housing boom on infrastructure.

    • jacross on 08/04/2019 - 09:09
      +1

      Source for median wage claim please.

        • DingoBilly on 09/04/2019 - 14:59
          +4

          Ummm did you read this…? It doesn't actually line up with your point whatsoever…

          There's no mention of median wages within the article whatsoever.

          And even looking at the graphs provided - they're showing an increase in wages regardless. This doesn't hold up to the claim that "national median wages have been dropping for over two decades". The growth in wages is lower sure, but that's not what the original statement was arguing.

          So you're going to need to provide an actual source.

          • MementoMori on 12/04/2019 - 16:04

            @DingoBilly: My personal view - wages have been flat for the last 10 years, which, in real terms means a drop.

            My career was growing prior to that so I can't comment on any earlier, but certainly for me personally, at the peak of my career - I'm earning the exact same $ amount as I was in 2009.

            Mind you - my career (of all careers) has been impacted the most by 457's and new Australians. Exactly what our money masters wanted.

      • pformag on 09/04/2019 - 15:47
        +1

        Here is the closest I can get.

        Another lie from Diji1

        http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/…

      • rakkie on 11/04/2019 - 20:39
        +1

        I was curious so I looked up the median figures (which seem to be quite well hidden for some reason.)

        The median full-time adult wage in 1998 was $43851.6
        Adjusted for inflation to 2018 this is $73687.6

        The median full-time adult wage in 2018 was $78000 (this seems to be rounded, but I don't have a better figure).

        So we are a little bit better off after adjusting for inflation. But of course, house prices / rent are not included in inflation figures,
        so Diji1 may be right.

        Sources:
        ABS - May 1998 / 2018 figures (took weekly median full time adult earnings * 52)
        Reserve Bank - Inflation calculator

    • [Deactivated] on 08/04/2019 - 10:01
      +4

      That sounds like an debate except it stops short of providing any ideas or solutions.

      It's just whinging that the rich have money and the poor doesn't.

      See data section taken from indisputable raw data sources.

      The country is run by the wealthy to benefit themselves at everybody else's expense.

      Whilst it is true that this country is run by the wealthy, it is demonstrable that it isn't at everybody else's expense.

      The rich benefit more but why shouldn't they, they risk their capital and employ the rest.

      So, should we become communist? Should we model ourselves after the Scandanavians (which by the way, was prosperous before they adopted "socialism" and are culturally and ethnically homogenous), or is there a policy that we can put into place where suddenly everyone is rich like it's magic?

      After all, if the current system isn't good (for you), any alternative is bound to lead to utopia, right?

      • Incrediho on 09/04/2019 - 01:25
        +6

        Is there no space between 'bad' and 'absolute magnificent, awe-inspiring utopia'? Are you not projecting a false dichotomy?

        Couldn't some people just want a system that reverses the trend towards more deregulation, privatisation, globalisation, cronyism, corporate/high income earner tax cuts etc? Not communism. Not even necessarily a Scandinavian-style socialism. Just a 10-20% nudge towards the lower/middle 'end of town'.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 08:10
          +3

          Just a 10-20% nudge towards the lower/middle 'end of town'.

          And how do you propose achieving this?

          Or is this the method itself?

          • Incrediho on 09/04/2019 - 13:58
            +5

            @[Deactivated]: I mean I don't think this is the platform for a detailed policy outline but some examples include:

            Not introducing tax cuts for corporations and high income earners.
            At least stopping (if not reversing) the large scale sale of state/federal infrastructure (we're already paying for this in NSW with electricity prices)
            Reducing 482 visas to force private business to hire local or invest more heavily into (re)training. Also provides a minor shift in negotiation power to the employee.
            All of the suggestions mentioned in OPs linked article
            etc etc (genuinely could go on for quite a while, but not sure this is the forum for it).

            • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 16:16
              +2

              @Incrediho:

              Not introducing tax cuts for corporations and high income earners.

              Even after the cuts, the high income earners still pay more tax. The problem with taxing the rich proportionately more is there is a tipping point where the rich will operate offshore or have some accounting offshore to evade tax.

              As it is, our tax system is already heavily disincentivizing immigration of the rich and entrepreneurial. Fewer businesses and fewer tax payers will mean less tax revenue and employment.

              At least stopping (if not reversing) the large scale sale of state/federal infrastructure (we're already paying for this in NSW with electricity prices)

              I whole heartedly agree that the government has made a grave oversight with natural monopolies. Natural monopolies such as power infrastructure should remain under government control.

              Reducing 482 visas to force private business to hire local or invest more heavily into (re)training. Also provides a minor shift in negotiation power to the employee.

              I think this would be a major and fair advantage to local labour. In fact, it shouldn't be just 482 visas.

              All of the suggestions mentioned in OPs linked article
              etc etc (genuinely could go on for quite a while, but not sure this is the forum for it).

              When one links a whole lot of arguments, it becomes worthless. It's just an information dump. Of the three things you listed, the first would be counter intuitive, the second is equivalent to AOC's GND and only the third has merit for discussion (although the mere mention of immigration begs xenophibia-phobic comments).

            • gromit on 10/04/2019 - 18:53
              +2

              @Incrediho: The problem is you are competing on a world stage. Not being at least competitive with tax rates for corporations simply means locals pay more and company's avoid investment and some actually relocate overseas to more favourable countries. The car industry is a classic example, it is simply not economically viable to produce cars here with our tax rates and income levels without massive subsidies (which in effect meant while we had a car industry they were actually operating on massive tax cuts that other companies didn't get).

              regardless those top income earners and companies still pay the vast bulk of all taxes. What you want is incentives for more of them to be in Australia, not more reasons for them to avoid us and offshore.

              • Incrediho on 10/04/2019 - 21:33
                +1

                @gromit: I understand the concept

                Do you have any case studies that support it in reality (for a similar economy/context to Australia), where lowering taxes for businesses and high income earners substantially improved the economic (e.g. real wage growth, greater tax revenue etc.) and/or non-economic (e.g. happiness index) welfare of the majority of the lower/middle classes?

                Would genuinely love to read.

                @tshow would be happy to hear from you as well.

                • gromit on 10/04/2019 - 22:46
                  +1

                  @Incrediho: There are heaps out there, both liberal and labor (when they are not using it as a political wedge) understand this. So you can search either side of politics or look at international information and whitepapers, depending on what you prefer you will find a heap from all sides.

                  e.g.
                  https://fee.org/articles/the-european-commissions-war-agains…
                  https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-income-tax-most-harmful-…

                  The real problem in a worldwide market is trying to get reasonable rates universally, as without agreements countries like Ireland, Singapore and many of the tax havens screw over everyone else as current tax laws aren't written to handle globalisation and easy movement.

                  • Incrediho on 11/04/2019 - 00:29
                    +1

                    @gromit: Thanks for that!

                    I agree there is definitely potential for lowering corporate tax rates when matched with a more (not less) progressive income and/or consumption tax system. Even the IMF (hardly a bastion of lefty idealists) notes this in a recent comprehensive study:

                    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/Staff-Discussion-Notes/I…

                    As the income share of top 20% increases, economic growth slows (as opposed to poor/middle class income share growth leading to greater overall economic growth). It strongly rebukes the concepts of "trickle down economics".

                    Completely agree current international corporate tax laws are a mess and need a lot of work (and international cooperation). We are likely in a race to the bottom otherwise.

                • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2019 - 14:36
                  +1

                  @Incrediho:

                  Do you have any case studies that support it in reality…

                  Yes. Me. I have investments in Asia and the US for the very reason. I already pay a lot in taxes and it is inconceivable to me that every dollar I make at is going to be halved.

                  I would gladly bring my money back into the country if I am paying approximately what I do in the states (~25% overall).

                  economic (e.g. happiness index) welfare of the majority of the lower/middle classes?

                  This is irrelevant. I'm keeping my money offshore and businesses are reluctant to even start in Australia so the money isn't even a factor. It never made it into the country. It never offered employment opportunity. It never offered investment opportunity.

                  The happiness index is absolute BS in my eyes. At one point, maybe it still is, Thailand was the happiest country. Money and wealth are relative. We're just destined to be unhappy because we want more. It's a never ending sliding scale.

                  • Incrediho on 11/04/2019 - 20:05

                    @[Deactivated]: Clearly lowering taxes will increase interest/investment to SOME degree. Everyone likes to pay less.

                    The question is whether that increased investment (and associated positive economic activity) can OVERCOME the lower tax revenue. Evidence there is extremely mixed, particularly if you primary criteria for success is the economic wellbeing of lower/middle classes.

                    It also comes down to the elasticity of demand for living in one country (i.e. taxes vs wages vs quality of life vs social climate). International tax policy may also change closing loopholes and making it much harder to enjoy the lifestyle (or customer base) in one country without paying taxes there. Sure some will choose to live in Ireland or Macau etc. Many will value the quality of life and social/political climate of countries with higher rates of tax.

                    I happen to agree the happiness index is flawed, but it also makes an admirable attempt to look beyond GDP as the ONLY measure of success. You can see the latest report rankings from the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report. The top countries are all highly developed, economically advanced nations.

                    • [Deactivated] on 11/04/2019 - 20:14

                      @Incrediho: I can still live here but my investments will be offshore. I cannot bring large sums of money into the country but I can choose to be a resident here and enjoy my wealth elsewhere hence allowing my money to benefit people elsewhere.

                      That's what happens when we vilify business owners and high income earners so we can make daylight robbery more palatable. Eventually, we will stop trying to prove otherwise.

                      It is not the responsibility of the rich to ensure the poor enjoy equal outcome.

                      • Incrediho on 11/04/2019 - 22:28
                        +3

                        @[Deactivated]: Since we've pretty much come full circle, I'll end on saying it again:

                        Many (myself included) don't want communism, nor equality of outcome. We don't vilify the rich (at least the majority of them, with some particularly unscrupulous exceptions), nor ambition. We want a relatively small move towards the lower/middle end of town. There'll still be many extremely rich people in "our" envisioned future. Just, hopefully, a few less extremely poor.

    • Deridas on 08/04/2019 - 11:15
      -2

      The country is run by the wealthy to benefit themselves at everybody else's expense.

      Please provide a commentary on a comparison between Australia and our similar sized/larger neighbours/allies - China, Malaysia, US, Phillipines, Indonesia … Etc

      Please name a neighbour that has a more generous welfare system, a steeper progressive tax system. These are all run by the wealthy to benefit themselves. On the otherhand, something like the 1MDB in Malaysia certainly was the wealthy looking after everyone, something we should adopt. /s

      I'd much rather be in Australia.

      Please back up your claim re: link between free trade agreements and wage drops (wages have not been dropping by the way, there is NO evidence of that anywhere I know). People certainly are earning more than they were 20yrs ago.

      How is the economy going backwards? You accidentally left out the bit where unemployment rate is at an all time low, Annual GDP growth still going strong at 2%/yr. Backwards for some time? Are you pulling a Michael Daley?

      But you know, it's cool to be far left these days, complain about everything, the government screwing us over all the time.

      You are forgetting we are very lucky living in Australia.

      • vetopower on 08/04/2019 - 12:03
        +16

        That's a poor form of argument.

        'Things are worse in Country X, so you should be thankful for the fact that 'we are very lucky living in Australia', and not complain about the situation in our home country.'

        Actually, it is worse than a poor form of argument. It is a positively harmful form of argument.

        Australia got to the great position it is in today because the people complained about the current situation and sought to improve it through their actions.

        Eg the fact that we have a progressive system of taxation, generous welfare entitlements and good working conditions is because the people of Australia, particularly the union movement, fought hard for these goals in the first half of the twentieth century.

        You risk undoing these great achievements by encouraging Australians merely to compare themselves to other countries ('as long as we are better than these other countries, you have no cause for complaint').

        • Deridas on 08/04/2019 - 12:29

          vetopower

          Thanks for your reply and analysis.

          The "lucky" statement is a follow-on from my counter-argument our economy/wages are NOT going backwards, not regarding the comparison between other countries. We ARE lucky to be living in Australia BECAUSE our economy is not going backwards. Note my conclusion statement to my "comparison" argument (comparing "wealthy people running their country") is "I'd much rather be in Australia" -> there is no "lucky" in that argument.

          I made two counter-arguements in response to the original post, only the "latter" argument has "lucky" as a conclusion, and it was a response to what I claim as those who are significantly left leaning on the political spectrum. You are right in your arguments regarding goals that have been achieved in Australia, which actually somewhat elaborates my latter argument.

          In hindsight I should've added an extra space between the two counter-arguements and further quoted the second part, it'd have made it more clear.

      • Never Pay RRP on 08/04/2019 - 16:47
        +4

        You accidentally left out the bit where unemployment rate is at an all time low

        I feel like that may have been left out because the unemployment rate is not at an all time low

        • Deridas on 08/04/2019 - 18:21

          Fair enough, it's low but not all time low.

        • WinstonWithAY on 10/04/2019 - 22:06

          Also underemployment is quite high, which is a significant issue

      • daleyboy79 on 08/04/2019 - 21:55
        +4

        the only reason we have 2% GDP growth is due to immigration, in real terms (i.e. per capita) we've been stale for a very long time. We also have fed governments that dont seem to place any value on peoples general happiness. There solely concerned with $$$.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2019 - 08:12

          And how do you propose we increase our GDP?

    • pformag on 09/04/2019 - 15:38
      +1

      national median wages have been dropping for over two decades? Source?

    • DingoBilly on 09/04/2019 - 16:12
      +1

      Please provide any source for your claims in the first statement. Otherwise have to assume it's false as I definitely can only find evidence to support that wages are increasing steadily within Australia.

  • ChillBro on 07/04/2019 - 18:47
    +15

    The biggest pressure on my wallet is from OzBargain.

    • moo on 07/04/2019 - 18:49

      Hah hence my comment on how OzBargain influences consumer behaviours. Must be due to FOMO aye?

      • ChillBro on 07/04/2019 - 19:03
        +7

        That's pretty much the sole reason. Nothing worse than checking this site after a few hours and finding the world's greatest deal with an expired tag.

        • Kangal on 08/04/2019 - 23:25
          +1

          That Samsung S10/e/Plus promotion for Telstra Staff got me reverse buyer's remorse….

    • overlord on 11/04/2019 - 16:54

      exactly.

  • ihbh on 07/04/2019 - 19:37

    I’ve noticed that the cost of daily essentials and groceries have gone up a lot on price

    The drought has affected the price of fresh produce (e.g. broccoli, tomatoes) , but they are starting to come down. If you can't afford it yet, switch to frozen or canned, where the prices are more stable.

    • RockyRaccoon on 07/04/2019 - 19:43
      +1

      actually it wasnt the drought, it was the rains up north that impacted the prices of these.

    • moo on 07/04/2019 - 19:51
      +2

      Well look at bananas, they used to be $0.79 to $0.99/kg. Now they are mostly sitting at $2.99/kg on average despite the peaks and troughs from environmental related influences.

      For me I tend to pay a bit more for local Australian produces. I’d never buy any meat or vegetables that is not local. The thought of eating the meat and veggies from heavily polluted countries…. well each to their own I suppose? Plus I believe in supporting local farmers!

      • Deridas on 08/04/2019 - 09:54
        +6

        How many years ago was 99c/kg as a regular price for bananas? I remember that was around 25yrs ago.

        • orangetrain on 09/04/2019 - 08:25

          I saw them often two years ago. Western Sydney suburbs. No banana plantations here.

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