Mesh Wi-Fi Advice

RangaWal on 28/03/2019 - 18:08

I've just moved into another 2 story timber house. The router (NBN supplied Huawei HG658 connected to HFC) is in one corner upstairs. Currently the connectivity is tolerable, but I haven't stress tested it yet, and assume it might be fairly ordinary. Most importantly, the pool area and the shed are some distance down the back, and I anticipate the wifi strength will be unacceptable for my needs.

So, I'm thinking a mesh device might be the best long-term option. I've watched some videos to get a basic understanding of the concept, but seek recommendations on which devices are worth buying.

Oh yeah, we use Google home devices throughout the house, if that means anything. I'm interested in maybe adding some smart devices such as lights down the track.

Naturally I'd like to keep costs as low as possible, but I want quality hardware and software that's easy to set up and use.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

Computing

Comments

  • 87percent on 28/03/2019 - 18:16
    +2

    I've been using Google WiFi in my house and can recommend it. Had a couple of deadspots which it covered, and getting about 85/3 at those spots now (I'm on non HFC and get about 115/5 speed)

  • raytriplej on 28/03/2019 - 18:33

    Also using Google Wifi.

    Works well. My son also plugs his Nintendo Switch into the ethernet port on the satellite unit to get around the
    Nintendo Switch's shitty wifi.

  • sicaboy on 28/03/2019 - 18:48

    Why not try Asus. They don’t force you to buy multiple routers at once. They support mesh and you can buy a new router and join your current mesh when you need it.

  • vince088 on 28/03/2019 - 21:25

    Tendo Nova has alot of good reviews, about $120-130 for a 3 pack mesh system

    i plan to buy this one day also

    • RangaWal on 28/03/2019 - 22:00

      I thought about them, but wasn't sure how good they are. Cheapest I could see them were about $130, and noticed they're rebadged by Kogan for $129 - https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-wifi-ac1200-whole-home-me… - so thinking they might be a good option for warranty etc.

      • bikuta on 28/03/2019 - 22:46

        Any reviews on the Kogan? How do you know it’s rebadged? For $129 that’s a pretty good deal for a mesh wifi system.

      • vince088 on 29/03/2019 - 06:27

        That is tempting!!
        Let us know if u do buy it and review it :P

      • thermos on 29/03/2019 - 22:46

        I bought it from Kogan recently at $129, unfortunately the SSID password (written on the bottom of each unit) doesn't seem to be work.
        As such I cannot configure/use it so far. I have also tried connecting via the QR code, same issue.

        I have contacted Kogan support, however it hasn't been resolved to date.

        Not sure if anyone else on here has had better success.

        • vince088 on 01/04/2019 - 10:11

          Plug in a ethernet cable to port 1 of the unit, and from there you can log into the router using the ip address provided usually under the unit

          From there you can change the settings.

        • idonteven on 07/04/2019 - 21:02

          Any update? Did vince088's tip work?

  • trankillity on 29/03/2019 - 07:06
    +3

    There's a few options ahead of you, but most of the suggestions by others here don't take into account proper security.

    Being that you have Google Home devices in your house, I would assume you also have some kind of other smart home devices (lights, sensors, cameras, etc). These devices should all live on a separate network or VLAN to your personal devices. There's very little security in these IoT devices and they're very vulnerable to external attackers. If you isolate them on their own network where they can only talk to each other and the internet, but not anything else on your internal network - you keep yourself a lot safer. Here's an article on this form of micro-segmentation and why it's important.

    Mesh networks are decent, but they do introduce latency to your networking. If you are fairly tech savvy and don't mind running a few network cables to your access points, I would recommend getting into the Unifi range of products instead of an off the shelf, all-in-one solution mesh solution. I have a single one of their lowest-end access points and it covers my entire, large house - including downstairs. They're slightly different in configuration in that you configure by running an app on a computer in the same network, as opposed to connecting to the devices themselves. The products I'm using are their USG for a gateway/router, AP-Lite for my WiFi AP, and running their controller on my NAS. By splitting it out into single-function devices, it means that I can add to my network infrastructure whenever I want without needing to start again from scratch.

    If you're still really set on using a Mesh WiFi system for ease of use/installation, here's the recommendations I would give:

    • Amplifi Mesh by Ubiquiti - The same guys who make the Unifi stuff do have an all-in-one mesh solution
    • Samsung SmartThings WiFi Hub - Doubles as a mesh WiFi router and Zigbee/Z-Wave hub for home automation. Not the cheapest, but definitely worth considering if you have/want automation. Only available via RACV in Australia for some reason.
    • Google WiFi - Apparently easy to use, but doesn't allow for very in-depth configuration. Anyone who knows anything about networking will get frustrated at the lack of options. I would also expect Google to release an updated version of this product this year with built-in Google Assistant.

    Not a professional network admin, just what I like to call a "prosumer". Happy to answer any more questions you may have.

    • RangaWal on 29/03/2019 - 08:02

      Awesome reply, and definitely food for thought. I think you've convinced me about segmentation, but I'm a little confused about what would be the minimum I would need.

      USG - this allows the creation of virtual networks, one for my PC/Server, Nvidia Shield, phones etc, another for my IoT devices (only Google Home at this stage). My Huawei WIFI router is crap. At a minimum I can't even assign a permanent IP address to my server. Does the USG replace this router, or does Ubiquiti have another device to replace it? Like you, I think I could get away with one access point downstairs. If that doesn't do the shed, I could get one more.

      What other devices would I need if I want to get more into home automation, and are they compatible with the Ubiquiti stuff?

      Thanks for your time and knowledge, much appreciated.

      • trankillity on 29/03/2019 - 10:09

        All of the Unifi gear (not sure about Amplifi though) can be configured for multiple VLANs and firewalls. At minimum, you'll need USG and a AP if 100% of your devices will be on WiFi. If you have a split of wired/wireless devices, you'll also need a switch of some kind. If you want hard-wired devices on that switch to be split over different VLANs, it will need to be a managed switch. I currently just have an unmanaged switch, but will be upgrading to a Unifi switch in future for PoE and the managed ports.

        In terms of your connection and your existing modem/router - are you on NBN yet? If you are, you don't actually need to use the router supplied by your ISP at all. All you need is the NBN box installed by the NBN tech. I'm on the HFC version of NBN, so I have an ethernet cable going directly from the Arriss modem installed by NBN to the USG WAN port. Then I just let the USG do all the routing and filtering.

        One of the other amazing features of the USG is "Smart Queues" (effectively QoS), which allows you to dynamically limit the connections of devices connected to your network so that everyone on the network can use it without experiencing congestion or slow downs. I can be streaming 4K Netflix while playing games online and only have about 5-10ms ping added thanks to Smart Queues. However, this is where one of the problems with the USG lies. The CPU in it is only powerful enough to handle Smart Queues up to about 85mb/s.

        There's rumours that there will be an updated version of the USG this year that supports up to 250mb/s Smart Queues (faster than current AU internet allows). If you wanted to future proof yourself, it might be worth holding off upgrading because I would expect them to also release an AP capable of WiFi 6 this year too.

        Hope this helps. Hit me up if you need any more information.

        • RangaWal on 29/03/2019 - 10:17

          Thanks again. I'm also on HFC NBN, and want to get rid of the horrible Huawei router. The only device connected to the Huawei via ethernet is my main PC/Server. What you're saying is my Arris modem plugs directly into the USG, and I assume my PC can also connect to that. Does the USG have any wifi capability, and if not, what else do I need to deliver WIFI to my devices?

          • trankillity on 29/03/2019 - 11:53

            @RangaWal: The USG is purely a router/gateway/firewall. It's built for that single purpose. This means that it only has two input ethernet port (WAN and failover backup WAN), one output ethernet port (LAN) and no WiFi built in.

            You can get a cheap ($40 or so) unmanaged switch for all your wired devices. You'll also need a spare port for the WiFi. To set the WiFi up, you'll need an access point. AP-Lite or AP-LR should be all you need (most of the other stuff is for corporate use).

            You'll also need to run the configuration app (called Unifi Controller) on your PC to be able to set it all up. If you want constant monitoring and control, you can run this app on an always-on device or buy the CloudKey.

            With the USG and the AP-Lite, it actually cost me less than getting a high-end all-in-one modem/router and I have the freedom to add/remove/upgrade pieces of my network now without needing to buy a whole new system.

            • RangaWal on 30/03/2019 - 08:30

              @trankillity: Thanks yet again for the help. Just to make sure I got it, I'm going to start with a USG (to create 2 networks – 1 for my internal data devices, 1 for IoT devices to keep them separate) and a UAP upstairs to provide WIFI to at least the upstairs devices.

              This should mean I can do away with my Huawei WIFI router, right?

              If so, which UAP do you recommend, if I want it to try reach another UAP downstairs (almost line of sight). This is purely in the hope that the downstairs unit can then reach out into the back yard.

              Do I also need a switch for the PC upstairs (the only ethernet device I have upstairs), or can it plug into the upstairs UAP?

              Can you explain what the CloudKey will do for me?

              • trankillity on 30/03/2019 - 12:52

                @RangaWal: I think you're missing the point here a bit sorry bud. The Unifi Access Points are all HARD WIRED! They are not a mesh WiFi system. This means they need to be connected via ethernet to your existing network.

                The taxonomy will look like this Arriss NBN modem -> USG -> Switch -> all other devices (including Wireless AP).

                So you will need to run a network cable from your modem, to your USG (which can be right next to modem) to your Switch (doesn't matter where the switch is physically, could be in the same room as your PC) and then from the Switch to your PC, your Unifi Access Point, and any other devices that you want hard-wired.

                I would honestly start with a single UAP-AC-LITE or UAP-AC-LR, because it's actually likely all you need. Then, if you find you're not getting good enough reception, just go buy another one. That's the beauty of a segmented network system. You can upgrade whenever you want without needing to start from scratch.

                One big tip though - install it on your ceiling! Radio wave dispersion pattern means that you'll get the absolute best signal if you have it installed on your ceiling.

                As for the CloudKey - it's basically a RaspberryPi running the Unifi Controller software which allows you to set it all up. I would only recommend a CloudKey if you wanted constant logging of your system and the ability to administer it remotely, otherwise it's overkill. All you really need is to run the Controller on your PC to set it up at the start and then you don't even need to have it running any more. It's definitely not something I'd recommend getting for a newbie, but you may find a use case for it later down the line.

                • RangaWal on 30/03/2019 - 13:01

                  @trankillity: Now I understand. I'm happy to connect the upstairs access point via Ethernet - maybe it will be strong enough for the whole house! Which one do you recommend?

                  If it's not strong enough for downstairs and out the back to the shed, what can I use? Ethernet isn't an option. I have a pair of EoP devices that I could try, but if that's not up to it, can I get a WiFi repeater?

                  I have an old gigabit TPLink switch - is that good enough, or do you recommend something else?

                  • trankillity on 31/03/2019 - 09:21

                    @RangaWal: Maybe go for the UAP-AC-LR and hope it reaches your shed. LR stands for long range, so should be better suited for it. They do have other solutions for beaming from one point to another with directional access points, but it starts getting pretty expensive at that point.

                    You should really consider the range you need though. These things are POWERFUL! Much more powerful than any consumer-grade all-in-one router. The UAP-AC-Lite has a massive 122m range. The UAP-AC-LR bumps that up to 183m. So if your shed is less than 200m away (would want to hope so), then you probably won't need any more than the UAP-AC-LR.

                    If you're worried, you could possibly just grab two of these to create a mesh network between your house and your shed: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ubiquiti-UniFi-Mesh-Wireless-AC1… . Buying via eBay means you do have the 30 day return guarantee if you find you don't need them.

            • RangaWal on 30/03/2019 - 08:44

              @trankillity: Forgot to mention - for those reading through this, Computer Alliance currently have 20% off a lot of this stuff https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/446894

        • KiwiTheGreat on 20/09/2019 - 15:59

          @trankillity USG alone will not route VLAN, you would also need a VLAN capable switch to accomplish that.

          • trankillity on 20/09/2019 - 23:36

            @KiwiTheGreat: Yes, which is why I said all of this:

            All of the Unifi gear (not sure about Amplifi though) can be configured for multiple VLANs and firewalls. At minimum, you'll need USG and a AP if 100% of your devices will be on WiFi. If you have a split of wired/wireless devices, you'll also need a switch of some kind. If you want hard-wired devices on that switch to be split over different VLANs, it will need to be a managed switch. I currently just have an unmanaged switch, but will be upgrading to a Unifi switch in future for PoE and the managed ports.

  • Happyjameson on 29/03/2019 - 07:46

    I've got the Netgear Orbi and can highly recommend it.

    • mrkookz on 23/05/2019 - 18:47

      I'm gonna grab the Netgear Orbi RBK50 the second it is on special again. :)

  • RangaWal on 30/03/2019 - 21:09

    So ,I ended ordering the USG for $151, the US-8-60W for $160 and the UAP-NANOHD-E for $207 delivered. Hope this is right! Thanks for your help so far. Hopefully I won't bother you too much when it comes to configuring :)

  • RangaWal on 01/04/2019 - 19:30

    Along the way, I forgot to ask - what smart hub do you recommend? Looking to get some cameras and lights down the track.

    • trankillity on 29/05/2019 - 19:49

      Hubs are a real shitfight right now. Wink is dying and Samsung SmartThings just recently had an issue where some of their code was on a public repository (including the private key for access to the hub), so I no longer trust them either. Most people in-the-know would recommend you go with Homebridge and make your own hub with Raspberry Pi, but you need a heck of a lot of technical knowledge and time to be able to achieve the results you're likely after.

      I actually don't have any real hubs just yet. Arguably my Philips Hue and Logitech Harmony are considered "hubs", but they both only work with specific devices and specific protocols. What you want from a real hub is something that can control everything else in the house.

  • RangaWal on 09/04/2019 - 11:05

    So, I finally received all my devices. Setting them up was somewhat frustrating, as the controller software wanted to upgrade and adopt the USG, but it kept failing. After many hours, I finally updated it manually via SSH, and ultimately have it all working.

    Both the hardware and software looks very professional once up and running, and plenty of things to learn. First thing, is how to set up 2 separate LANs - one for data, the other for IoT devices.

    • trankillity on 24/05/2019 - 09:26

      Sorry to hear you had some issues setting up :( Never a good experience if your first impression is frustration. Glad it's all working now though!

      I actually have the exact articles you need bookmarked for situations like this!

      • This is a really good article about the concept of micro segmentation, but the steps are outdated and don't apply to current Unifi setup.
      • The first comment in this Reddit thread has all the actual rules you'll want to set up in your USG/Unifi firewall.

      One important thing to keep in mind is that you'll need to turn OFF the newer "Automatically optimise network" option, and turn ON the MDNS reflector. The MDNS reflector is mentioned in the articles, but it's super important for casting across networks otherwise you won't easily see your IoT devices on your private network.

      • RangaWal on 26/05/2019 - 21:54

        Thanks for the heads-up re MDNS. Where do I find this in the settings?

  • trankillity on 29/05/2019 - 19:42

    NO TEXT

  • birdie on 03/09/2019 - 19:38

    @trankillity: I'm currently running some Cisco Meraki Gear (MX64 Security Device, MS220-8P PoE Switch, and a MR33 WAP) that I got through watching some of their webinars. My included 3 year licence runs out in March 2020 so I am looking at options for replacing them before that expires plus I've been having issues with the WiFi not reaching my outdoor area after I moved the WAP closer to the front of the house so my Ring Doorbell could get a better signal.

    I've looked at the Ubiqity gear a few times but wasn't sure what I would need to get it up and running.

    So I'm guessing to replace what I have now I'd need the USG (do you know if its been updated yet with the 250Mb/s Smart Queues yet? We are on 100/40 NBN and get the full speed so so don't want to be limited :)). It looks like the US-8-60 PoE Switch would be a reasonable switch (Currently have 5 wired devices and only the WAP is PoE) and I guess as you suggested above start with the UAP-AC-LITE (We have about 21 wireless devices currently). Do I need a Cloud Key? or is that something you can run on RPi or is that something else?

    • birdie on 03/09/2019 - 20:08

      Other quesion is: can I just get the WAP first and then switch to the USG and Switch at a later stage?

      Also what is the interface for management? Web Interface or is that what the Cloud Key is?

      • trankillity on 04/09/2019 - 08:41

        Great questions! You definitely know what you want :)

        My biggest suggestion (especially because you're in no rush) would be to wait for the upcoming Unifi Dream Machine product. It's Ubiquiti's first bash at making an all-in-one device. Unfortunately, being an AIO, it won't be very upgradable, but you will be able to just turn off devices that you don't want (except the controller, that's fixed and the UDM can't be adopted into another controller).

        In terms of features and power, it blows the current offerings out of the water. It will give you a 4-port managed Switch (don't think it's PoE unfortunately) + USG + Cloud Key + AP-Lite all in one device. I'll likely try and sell my USG and pick one of these babies up when they're available.

        If you needed to get some devices in the mean time, you could certainly look at getting another AP-LITE. The Unifi Controller is literally just software that talks to your hardware, so it can be run on anything (PC/Mac/NAS/Pi/NUC). It also only needs to be running when you want to change settings too (unless you want logging).

        • birdie on 04/09/2019 - 09:14

          Yeah I prefer the separated roles as you can upgrade a bit at a time as newer technologies come out etc.

          I'm thinking I'll jump on a WAP now (Computer Alliance has 15% off on eBay atm) and that should hopefully solve my current coverage issues and then I can look at the other devices down the track which gives a couple of benefits - it spreads the cost out instead of all at once, and gives Ubiquiti more time to come out with newer models :)

          Is there any reason to go for the UAP-AC-LITE over the UAP-AC-LR other than price?

          • trankillity on 04/09/2019 - 10:39

            @birdie: I actually just went with the UAP-AC-LITE with the intention of adding another one in the future if I needed it. Ubiquiti is basically consumer-grade gear though, so turns out that it's powerful enough to cover my whole home which is pretty impressive. I dare say I will need another one when I buy my first home soon as it will be a 2-3 level town house (likely) with a fair few other SSIDs to compete with.

            • birdie on 15/09/2019 - 14:19

              @trankillity: I've got my UAP-AC-LR all setup now :)

              For the Switch, would you go a US-8-60 (with 4 PoE ports) or a US-24 (non-PoE) and just use a PoE injector for the WAPs? I'm thinking longer term, and thinking 8 ports possibly won't be enough, especially once we buy our own home and I can hardwire more things. I also like that it can be rackmounted, especially again once we buy our own home… Any reason other than convience to get a PoE switch?

              Also in regards to the USG… with it being limited to 85Mbit/s… Is it worth making the jump to the USG-Pro-4? (again rack-mountable). I believe it has better throughput and faster CPU/more RAM, so would cope with my 100/40 NBN plus be able to run IDS/IPS at the same time as Smart Queues?

              And last question (for now): In regards to the Cloud Key, I'm thinking it may be cheaper to grab a cloud key rather than having to purchase a new RPi3/4 + power supply, case, SD card, etc. The only spare RPi's I have atm is a RPi B Gen 1 and a RPi Zero-W both which I don't think would be fast enough to run the UniFi Controller Software?

              • trankillity on 16/09/2019 - 08:20

                @birdie: It depends if you think you'll ever get IP Cameras or not. If there's a chance that you will, go the PoE route. That way you only need to run ethernet to mounting points, not ethernet + power.

                In terms of 8 ports not being enough, keep in mind that you can still daisy chain non-managed switches off a single port in the Unifi Switch. For example, I have a port in my US-8-60 which goes to another switch that is dedicated to my IoT and home automation devices, then another port which goes to my home theatre system (PS4 Pro, nVidia Shield, Receiver). So you can very easily turn an 8-port switch into a 24+ port by just connecting other cheap, non-managed switches. In a home scenario, you're never going to have issues with transfer rates when daisy chaining switches.

                I wouldn't recommend getting the USG any more. It's way too old and doesn't have the power to handle modern networking. USG-Pro would be best, but obviously significantly more expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if they were going to do an update to the USG and USG-Pro in the next 6 months.

                Don't bother getting a key right now. Get everything else going first, because you can run the controller software on anything. As I mentioned, I just run the controller on my NAS. If you decide you want the key in the end, you can just export your config and set the key up using that.

                • birdie on 26/09/2019 - 22:09
                  +1

                  @trankillity: Just bought the USG-Pro-4 from Wireless1 on eBay for $378.25 with a 15% voucher. :O

                  It’s getting serious now! Next purchase will be a switch, still to decide which one I’ll go with but that’ll give me time to save for it too…

                  I should sell the Meraki AP and the Security Device once I get the new USG-Pro-4 and that can help fund the switch hopefully :)

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