Need Help. Buyer Claims Item Came Damaged Despite Not Even Having Received It

manbearpig on 07/03/2019 - 23:57
Last edited 07/03/2019 - 23:57

So I sold an item on eBay to a buyer in Germany. It was about $120.

Tracking shows that it has been in 'retention' since Feb 21, so it's being held at their local post office.

However, the buyer opened a return saying that it came damaged. Nothing more than literally a few words.

I asked for pictures and asked how it is possible when tracking shows it's still at the post office, but again, they don't respond.

My guess is that they were unwilling to pay the import duties and taxes at the post office and so are just filing it as damaged to get their money back.

I asked eBay to step in, but eBay have turned around and told me to send a prepaid return shipping label or send the buyer money by PayPal so they can return the item. The problem is, they don't even an item to send back, so I'd be sending them free money! I asked why the buyer can't send me a receipt once they send me the item, and then I can reimburse them after, but eBay seems to be sidestepping that question.

If I don't act though, eBay will refund the buyer and they will not be required to send anything back, so I'm being forced to send them money. This is absolutely ridiculous. I've got tracking which proves that the buyer is lying, yet eBay has decided that the buyer saying it's been received is 'confirmation' of delivery!

If I send the money, the buyer will have nothing to send back, so they will just keep the money. The item should then be returned to me by the post office, but I will still be out of pocket. Or they might decide to pick up the item from the post office once I send the money.

Does anyone have any experience with situations like this?

I spoke to an eBay rep on the phone today and I've also sent several emails but I'm being told the same thing.

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Comments

  • HighAndDry on 08/03/2019 - 00:09
    +3

    Unfortunately eBay (and Paypal) are notoriously anti-seller. That makes them pro-buyer, which is good sometimes and bad at other times (like this one).

    How much is a prepaid return shipping label? If the buyer is just unwilling to pay customs/etc, then they're probably still going to be unwilling after getting the shipping label - you're out of pocket but it's not like they get the money so the calculus for them doesn't change.

    After you send the shipping label - you can either:

    1. Get the item back (so you're only down the shipping label cost), or
    2. Wait for the buyer to fail to return it (because they can't pick it up from the post office) and argue it wasn't returned and so keep the $120 they paid, or
      3 (best case but unlikely scenario): combination of (1) (because the post office returns to seller) and (2) because the buyer can't prove they ever sent the item back.

    Worst case scenario is that you're out the shipping label and the buyer still picks up the item and eBay decides they somehow returned it so the payment gets refunded, but if that happens there's not much you can do about anyway.

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 01:10

      I've never had to create a prepaid shipping label so I'm confused with how it works. It's a steel book video game so I imagine about $20.

  • qwerty on 08/03/2019 - 00:23
    +2

    For all the headaches i would count the $120 as a loss and hope the goods get returned

    or alternative https://www.dhl.de/de/privatkunden/pakete-versenden/online-f… if under 2kg its about 25aud for a label and email that t him to return it

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 01:11

      It's a video game steel case so it's at most about 200g. Thanks for the link.

  • garetz on 08/03/2019 - 00:49
    +2

    Paypal is getting shiftier and shiftier, dont give them money, just wait for the item to be returned as undeliverable. Hopefully you have it insured in case it gets lost in transit back to you.

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 01:08

      I would, but if I don't act within 4 days, eBay will refund the buyer. The buyer would then free to pickup the item from the post office, and they'll get the goods and their money back.

      • garetz on 08/03/2019 - 01:39

        And whats stops them from taking your money you send them to return the item, them keeping the item, and also getting a refund. 2 out 3 aint bad. Paypal is just half assing, since they arent asking for any kind of proof at all.

  • Cheeper on 08/03/2019 - 01:06
    +1

    Keep contacting ebay … you may find someone who is listening to you and understand that a claim for an item as being damaged when it has not even been delivered is just stupid.

  • trustnoone on 08/03/2019 - 01:06

    Maybe bad advice but wouldn't it be easier for you to go through with the damage report? Tell ebay your happy to send through a return label and give refund if user sends a picture of damage?

    It sounds to me like eBay is siding on the seller that they received the item (maybe a lie) but ebay hasn't sided with the seller that its damaged yet and the seller can't just change their mind, I don't know how anti seller ebay is but wouldn't they at least ask for a photo or description of the damage before they can accept returning funds? (again maybe bad advice)

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 01:15

      You'd think they would. There has been absolutely no communication from the buyer. I've been doing all the running around yet nothing is going my way.

      I'm not quite sure of how you go through with a damage report? I've asked several times for a photo of the damage but nothing. That's because there is no damage, and the buyer is making this all up.

  • CyberMurning on 08/03/2019 - 01:27

    So I sold an item on eBay to a buyer in Germany.

    I stop reading from there. A big mistake selling overseas. End of story.

  • Quantumcat on 08/03/2019 - 07:29

    This is what happens when you sell to buyers overseas. I got similarly scammed by an American buyer. If you don't mind never selling on ebay again, withdraw all your money from PayPal if you can, remove all contact details from ebay and PayPal (set your phone number to 0411111111 for eg), remove your bank details from PayPal if you can (you probably can't), cancel automatic bill paying on ebay and remove any paypal addresses associated, and wait. You'll have a negative balance on PayPal for a while but after that everything will go back to normal (except for not being able to sell on ebay and occasional debt collectors trying to trick you into responding when they email you).

  • aar1 on 08/03/2019 - 07:55
    +9

    Hello,

    I usually have more success with cases when dealing with Paypal directly, and not ebay.

    As someone else said above keep making contact to different people within ebay and paypal as they usually have different opinions and approaches on issues like this.

    and what has worked for me many times over the years….open online case with Dept Fair Trading ( as we have here in NSW ) and then make ebay and/or paypal also accountable to that department as it requires a different level of their staff address. To date I've never ended up out of pocket when approaching this way, when trying to process all kinds of issues over the years. Most recently a $300 coffee machine that buyer lodged an 'item arrived damaged' case 4 months after he received it, and to a dormant Paypal account as I'd switched to alternate account for online sales. Given not watching I didn't see the case at all until after response deadlines and after they'd refunded all moneys in full with buyer to keep the item. Paypal told me they would have agreed with me given time since item arrived but since I didn't respond at all within 10 days I lost everything and they wouldn't assist at all.

    It gets tiring dealing with different advice from staff who work for these companies. I lodged issue with NSW Fair Trading ( something I don't really want to do ), and not too long after received complete refund to Paypal account.

    It seems when they are accountable to departments such as Financial Ombudsmans Service or Fair Trading they enact a more timely and specific response from staff a little higher up in the chain than first address phone support staff. When just calling support number too much depends on the staff members opinion, mood , interpretation of the situation, and then interpretation of how to apply their own regulations….so often incorrect or biased to a single point that may be first to mind for them.

    Given you only have four days I'd personally open a case with appropriate department, then call them again, ask to speak with a supervisor, then politely advise of situation and case reference number, in a way to try and work with them to resolve 'the case' , and letting them know of case before that four day windows has expired, which gives them time again to review before you need send extra $'s

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 11:39

      Thanks for your lengthy response.

      I will give eBay another call today.

      I have had luck a couple of times with payment reversal disputes after getting in touch with the FOS, however in this case, I am currently in Japan, and the item was sent from Japan (using my Aus eBay account though). That might change things I imagine.

  • josetann on 08/03/2019 - 08:28
    +1

    You must have a really good track record with AusPost, to find it hard to believe that tracking could be anything but 100% reliable.

    It's possible (not saying likely, merely possible) that the item HAS been delivered.

    If it were me, I'd provide a prepaid tracking label out of spite (if you refund some $$$, buyer will definitely see that money…prepaid label, they can't convert that to cash and may/may not get a refund from eBay later). Do it through eBay if possible (I believe it's possible for domestic, not sure about international). Note that this is what "I" would do, not necessarily what's best. If the buyer's going to end up getting a full refund anyway, you're out the full amount regardless, PLUS a prepaid shipping label (unless there's some way to get a refund on one that hasn't been used yet, I've never done this so I can't say). Personally, I wouldn't want to make it any easier on the buyer IF they're trying to scam me. If you do send a prepaid label and it's actually used to send something back to you…keep an eye on the original tracking (it'd be interesting if it shows delivered the same day the prepaid label is used to send it back to you), then video you opening the package when you receive it (I highly doubt you'll get the same item back that you sent). Not sure how much that'll help you, but it can't hurt.

    • HighAndDry on 08/03/2019 - 09:51

      You must have a really good track record with AusPost, to find it hard to believe that tracking could be anything but 100% reliable.

      This is the German postal system advising its status, so a bit more faith seems warranted.

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 11:36

      I'm actually currently in Japan, so this was sent via Japan Post with tracking.

  • 87percent on 08/03/2019 - 08:34
    +2

    is there anyway you can contact the post office where the item is located and confirm that the item is actually there?

    • mbck on 08/03/2019 - 10:01
      +1

      guten tag, ze u haf un pakage frum austria??

  • onetwothreefour on 08/03/2019 - 10:39

    Can't you send them some money via PayPal for the return shipping then when they don't send it back to you you can claim a refund for the full amount?

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 11:31

      I don't think so. I will have to ask eBay again to see if they will cover that.

  • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 11:33
    +1

    Thank you all for the help. I will respond where I can.

    I have an update to report. eBay have put the case on hold while they request more details of the damage from the buyer.

    Interestingly, the buyer then finally responded to one of my messages.

    They said,

    No, I have received the item last week at the custom office - i needed to pay import taxes!
    Why I should say it is damaged, if not got it?
    Otherwise I would say, I still not received it until now…
    I will make the picture saturday…

    This makes things even more confusing. Tracking still shows that the item is in retention. Why had they ignored my messages and requests for more than a week only to respond after the eBay case requested that they provide more information? Why hadn't they posted a picture from day 1 (this is expected). Why can't they send a picture until Saturday? Surely taking a picture doesn't take more than a week. Everyone has a phone with some sort of camera. This was a video game steel case sold here, so the guy isn't a stranger to technology.

    I'm still skeptical. This may be farfetched, but for all I know, the guy could have the same item damaged and will swap them. That or he doesn't want the item anymore or doesn't want to pay the import taxes, but will collect it anyway so he can take a picture and successfully get his money back.

    I've asked him to send a picture of the damaged case PLUS the envelope I used PLUS a receipt from the customs office. Surely he would get a receipt, right? If the date shows he collected it after he opened the case, that would be proof he was lying. I'm sure he will say he 'threw out' the envelope and 'never got' a receipt from the customs office.

    His lack of communication and the discrepancy with his word and the tracking has just made me unsure of what to believe.

    • manbearpig on 08/03/2019 - 19:49

      What's with the ones just downvoting? Saying something would be more apprciated. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, but the buyer's behaviour has just been suspicious. A simple picture from day one would have avoided all of this. If I were in their shoes and legitimately received a damaged item, I would've taken a picture straight away. The guy has 600 feedback so he's not new to this.

      • Circly on 10/03/2019 - 22:08

        Upvoted you. Any updates?

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