Statutory Warranty on Swelling Battery for Surface Laptop bought from JB Hi-Fi?

adante on 12/02/2019 - 21:18

Hey,

Have a Surface V4 laptop purchased from JB HiFi around April 2016. It's out of warranty, but the main issue with it is that the battery has started to swell sufficiently to start deforming the case.

Otherwise it is working fine, but probably not really usable unless you don't mind bursting into flame (I do mind).

Was wondering what peoples thoughts were regarding whether this was elegible for a replacement under the statutory consumer laws. And if this is is elegible, what sort of line should I be taking with JB Hifi if they try to hardball me?

Electrical & Electronics Microsoft Tablet

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JB Hi-Fi
JB Hi-Fi

Comments

  • Hybroid on 12/02/2019 - 21:21
    +4

    I don't think you can prove that you've taken good care of the battery and cycled it properly, only ever used original charger which has never been damaged or shorted/overvolted, never exposed it to higher or lower temps than the recommended limits etc to be able to claim a defective manufacturing issue after 3 years. However, you might just get someone that's really willing to help and offer you a solution out of goodwill.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 22:42

      exposed it to higher or lower temps than the recommended limits

      This is along lines of what I was thinking. It would be fairly easy to make battery swell just from exposure to heat.

      Maybe OP left it in sun 1 too many times.

    • afordprefect on 12/02/2019 - 23:48

      Took my Apple watch gen 0 to the apple store with this issue (the battery swelled while it was on charge and popped off the screen). They replaced it. Wasn't quite this old, but still think there's a reasonable chance that on something that isn't consumer replaceable and is priced this high 3 years would be reasonable to expect.

      • ThithLord on 13/02/2019 - 08:30

        Apple provide much better customer support than you'd get from a reseller of a Microsoft product.

        • eug on 13/02/2019 - 12:17
          +1

          Apple provide much better customer support than you'd get from a reseller of a Microsoft product.

          So how does a reseller of an Apple product compare?

          You should be comparing Apple to Microsoft directly. I've had really good customer service from Microsoft directly, without having to set up an appointment and going into a store.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 21:25
    +11

    3 year old battery. Mmmm. I don't like your chances.

    • afordprefect on 12/02/2019 - 23:50
      +3

      The problem isn't that it doesn't hold charge, the problem being the swelling causing other issues. For me, I've had the same thing replaced in the second year, and this is not quite 3 years which is important. Given the battery isn't user serviceable they've kind of shot themselves in the foot here.

    • knobbs on 12/02/2019 - 21:45
      +5

      Had stabilizer issue with wifes iPhone 2yr 2months after purchase, Apple told me to stick it and pay for a whole new camera unit. Even after sighting the ACL laws I got a response from their lawyers basically saying f*** off.

      The battery thing was a PR stunt because of how people found out they were slowing down your phone purposefully.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 22:38
        +1

        mine was a macbook, so not involved in the scandal.

        i also had a camera replaced on iphone, also under ACL. no issues.

        i've never even had to mention ACL, they just do it automatically.

        even before they acknowledged ACL i still got stuff repaired/replaced OOW, such as macbook pro dead logic board. a few calls to customer service/management and it eventually got fixed.

    • payton on 12/02/2019 - 22:34

      The display on a work colleague's apple watch popped out of its chassis after the battery underneath it swelled. He'd owned it for 2-3 years. Went to an apple store and they wanted him to pay a few hundred bucks for repairs so he told them to go jump.

      • afordprefect on 12/02/2019 - 23:51
        +1

        They did mine for free :o

        • payton on 13/02/2019 - 00:36

          you must be good looking lol
          how old was it when you needed it fixed?

    • Bargain80 on 14/02/2019 - 10:19

      maybe you're just lucky.
      my wife had a macbook and after a couple of year the battery depleted in less than an hour of usage.
      She bought a genuine replacement and the same thing happened again after a year.
      And I know she's been careful with the battery cycle.

  • JimmyF on 12/02/2019 - 21:40
    +6

    Yep Batteries have different 'warranty' periods in most devices. So your 3 year old battery would be pushing it for JB to replace.

    You can always call MS direct and see what they say as well, they made it, so they might have a bigger heart ;)

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 23:29

      can also walk in store if you are at sydney

      • JimmyF on 13/02/2019 - 09:47

        Even better :)

  • Randxyz123 on 12/02/2019 - 21:43
    +2

    I don't think you have a good chance really.

    The battery is replaceable by Microsoft right?
    They aren't going to give you a brand new one if that is what you are expecting. It will be sent away for assessment and the battery will be replaced and you might be able to argue to have it replaced for free.

    The line I would take with JB would be "My surface battery has swollen, I am thinking of upgrading anyway. What kind of deal can I get on the Surface pro 6?"

  • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 22:05
    +2

    The battery is presumably an easily replaceable part and 3 years is pretty reasonable for a battery. I don't think you would have much luck with statuary warranty

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 23:31

      agree, ask ms or a repiutable part company to buy a new battery or get ms to service it as well

    • afordprefect on 12/02/2019 - 23:52
      +7

      'presumably' - you haven't seen tablets and phones these last 5 years have you? They're all glued to buggery and you have to heat gun the screen just to get at it. They're not in the slightest user replaceable. Hell, Apple broke my iPhone replacing my battery and had to give me a whole new phone.

    • udyz on 14/02/2019 - 23:21

      As afordprefect mentioned, they use double side (may be carbon tape) to stick the screen to the chassis. MS normally replaces the Surfaces for all warranty issues.. (no onsite repair)

  • altomic on 12/02/2019 - 22:14

    here is replacement battery from [ebay for $38.55 delivered oz stock](https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DYNR01-Battery-G3HTA027H-Replace…?
    and here is a battery change guide from ifixit

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 23:32
      +2

      tbh woouldn’t trust ebay unbranded battery

  • mskeggs on 12/02/2019 - 22:19
    +2

    A colleague took a similar vintage Surface with a flakey keyboard in a few weeks ago to Microsoft directly. They replaced the out of warranty keyboard.
    His comment was the surface hardware durability is questionable (he has had other in warranty issues) but he has always been super impressed by MS service.
    Worth a shot.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 23:34
      -1

      agreed, ms is not like apple that tries to rip you off and up sale you at all cost so worth a try

    • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 13:45
      -1

      Batteries totally different!
      They are expected to degarde very quickly.
      We are talking nearly 3 years here, not 3 months or even 12 months

  • Richardc on 12/02/2019 - 22:31
    +1

    battery swell means the overcharge protection is not working properly, ask them to fix it, as this might end up damage the motherboard.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2019 - 23:02

      Can happen if it is allowed to flatten.

  • Ayyyye on 13/02/2019 - 07:50

    Hola! If you come in with the laptop and your receipt there is nothing that happens on the spot. They'll have to put it through the faulty system which will indicate it's an out of warranty repair and you'll have to pay to fix it.

    Only way around paying is if the repair centre sees that it is through 'normal' wear and they're having a good day. This is not determined at a store level so be nice to who is breaking the cost news to you!

    Microsoft is usually pretty good in their service times but they can never guarantee a certain time frame due to how varied manufacturers service times are.

  • Speckled Jim on 13/02/2019 - 10:34

    Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:
    safe, lasting, with no faults

    I'd say a swollen battery fails that test.

    Consumer guarantees do not apply if you:
    misused a product in any way that caused the problem

    They'd have to prove that. Good luck.

    • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 16:14
      -1

      It wasn't supplied with a swollen battery. Batteries don't last forever and this is a 3 year old system.

      • Speckled Jim on 13/02/2019 - 17:02
        +1

        Fails all three criteria:
        1. It is not safe
        2. It did not last
        3. It is a major fault.

        If the laptop has developed a fault in the internal charging circuit, I'd want the whole thing replaced or repaired.

        • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 17:05
          -1

          You can argue that, but you left out:

          Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

          3 years is fairly borderline, especially as it comes to a battery-portion of the product.

          • Speckled Jim on 13/02/2019 - 17:15
            +1

            @HighAndDry: What would normally be expected? So there's a cohort of newish members here for whom lowered expectations are the new normal? Not Russian troll armies, are you?

            OP can cite the following, and can PM me for proof if they like.

            I have a Chinadroid 10" tablet purchased in 2013 that doesn't have a swollen battery.
            I have two 2011 Huawei phones that don't have swollen batteries.
            I have a 2016 Alcatel phone without a swollen battery.
            I have laptops manufactured in 2007 and 2010 that don't have swollen batteries.

            OP nor ACCC need not be concerned by battery chemistry or any other design parameter — that's on the manufacturer. If it's unstable after just three years, it's a fault with the product. In the eyes of the law "product" includes the supplied battery, charger and accessories.

            • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 17:27
              -1

              @Speckled Jim: Oh good, now I'm a Russian troll.

              • Speckled Jim on 14/02/2019 - 08:21

                @HighAndDry: Okay, sorry if I offended you.

                Not a JB shareholder then?

                • elease on 14/02/2019 - 21:15
                  +1

                  @Speckled Jim: Omg, you must be British! :))
                  I agree though that the unit/battery is faulty and need to be repaired by the seller.

          • CMH on 14/02/2019 - 14:49

            @HighAndDry:

            3 years is fairly borderline, especially as it comes to a battery-portion of the product.

            I agree 3 years is a fair expectation for a battery to last, especially if it's well used.

            As a whole though, it would be a different story. If the battery can be changed by the user then that's the way to go. If it's not, then I would argue that the device as a whole should last longer.

    • This Guy on 14/02/2019 - 20:33

      In my experience for any claims outside of JB HIFI's 'Consumer Guarantees, Warranties, & Refunds' policy:

      JB HIFI will require you to prove that you did not cause the problem, by providing a written report from an expert to your state's consumer tribunal and wining judgement;

      JB HIFI will only act in good faith when forced by a court;

      JB HIFI will try to claim an assessment fee just to have the unit sent to the manufacturer to be assessed;

      JB HIFI's repair costs can be the same as buying the device new;

      JB HIFI will also make you sign a form contrary to any agreements made with store management before sending your item away for assessment;

      OP will be better off contacting Microsoft directly.

      This is my personal experience.

  • skillet on 13/02/2019 - 12:17
    +2

    Swelling battery is a sign of manufacture defect not wear and tear. Bring it back get it fixed, hold your ground.

    • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 13:43

      Not really. Certainly not after nearly 3 years!
      The battery could have been subject to prolonged periods of high heat which will deform any battery.
      Using a laptop on a soft surface which inhibits the cooling system and natural ventilation will cause this.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 16:43

      You do know that lithium based batteries have voltage protection circuitry to prevent full discharge and swelling. If it's left flat for a long period, internal chemistry can change, polarity can reverse and swelling can happen and that's out of the manufacturer's control. If you try charging a battery that's reversed itself, get ready for a big surprise. Anyhow that's why lithium batteries have internal protection circuitry.

      • Namesareapain on 17/02/2019 - 14:41

        I have devices with lithium ion polymer batteries that I have let sit while either flat or at a very low charge state for years without any swelling, for a 3 year old device that seems extremely unlikely.

  • Hirolol on 13/02/2019 - 12:53
    +1

    Depends how much you paid.

    Should it last this long for the amount you paid?

    • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 13:40
      -3

      The amount paid is irrelevent.
      Batteries degrade very quickly by nature.

      • Hirolol on 13/02/2019 - 18:20
        +5

        Clearly you have no idea what statutory warranty is.

  • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 13:38
    -1

    Let me remind OP that it is now 2019 and so his laptop is nearly 3 years old.
    Batteries by nature degrade very quickly and OP is lucky to have had nearly 3 years use from it.
    Certainly the amount of battery degrading depends upon amount of use, number of charges, amount of heat exposue, if cooling has been interferred with such as using on a bed or soft surface, and if the battery has been maintained correctly.
    One will find many such batteries are excluded from the full warranty for this reason.
    OP should be happy for the nearly 3 years his battery has served him and just replace the battery.

    Certainly the fact the battery cannot be easily replaced by the user should have been taken into consideration at time of purchase!

    • eug on 13/02/2019 - 14:06
      +1

      Let me remind OP that it is now 2019 and so his laptop is nearly 3 years old.

      Is it reasonable to expect only three years of use out of a ~$1,500 tablet?
      Did Microsoft or JB make it clear to the OP that in three years time, the battery will expand and deform the case?

      • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 14:38

        Its the battery at issue my friend. The tablet is fine.

        Did the retailer tell you that the battery in your flagship smartphone is not easily replaced and would only last about 3 years?
        Same deal !
        Batteries are just that!
        Degradable items that must be replaced every 2 to 3 years. Thats life!
        And do you know to what environmental factors (heat and humidity) the battery and laptop was exposed? No!
        Do you know if OP properly maintained the battery? No!
        Do you know if OP kept the battery on charge all the time or even most of the time? No!

        I say again. The battery has lasted nearly 3 years. I think thats a good run for any rechargeable battery.
        Op should just pay to get it replaced.

        Ozbargain posters nearly always tell a biased view because they almost never provide all the facts as is uncovered over and over again.

        • eug on 13/02/2019 - 15:23
          +2

          Its the battery at issue my friend. The tablet is fine.

          Did you miss the part where OP said the tablet casing has been deformed?
          It's a metal case. It won't just pop back like a plastic tablet.

          Do you know if
          Do you know if

          Do you? No, you don't either.

          • HeWhoKnows on 17/02/2019 - 18:49

            @eug: The case will pop back in place. No permanent damage would have been done.

            • eug on 17/02/2019 - 19:09

              @HeWhoKnows:

              The case will pop back in place. No permanent damage would have been done.

              How do you know? Have you seen the OP's tablet?
              Have you had an aluminium unibody device deform then pop back into place perfectly?

              If the screen doesn't crack, it'll pop out. You cannot just 'pop it back'. You find that acceptable?

      • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 16:15

        Did Microsoft or JB make it clear to the OP that in three years time, the battery will expand and deform the case?

        I don't think a reasonable person needs to be told that batteries don't last forever.

        • eug on 13/02/2019 - 16:56
          +2

          I think a reasonable person would not expect a ~$1,500 tablet to deform its own casing within three years.

          • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 16:59

            @eug: Honestly? Depends how it's been used. And to throw a further spanner into the works, it's arguably on OP to notice the swelling and have it dealt with, rather than waiting for it to deteriorate because at that point, it may well be OP's fault the tablet itself is deformed.

            Consider a plumber replacing a tap in your bathroom. If it leaks and floods your house, that's the plumber's fault. But if you notice the leak, and then do nothing for hours as it continues to flood your house, then the plumber isn't actually liable for all of the damage.

            • eug on 13/02/2019 - 17:06

              @HighAndDry:

              Depends how it's been used.

              Why are we automatically assuming the OP keeps his tablet in a hot car in summer all day long?
              With normal use, a tablet should not deform its own casing within 3 years. Or at all, really.

              it's arguably on OP to notice the swelling and have it dealt with

              Once the OP notices the case has swollen … the case has swollen. How is the OP meant to detect swelling … before it's swollen?

              • HighAndDry on 13/02/2019 - 17:08

                @eug:

                Why are we automatically assuming the OP keeps his tablet in a hot car in summer all day long?

                I'm not assuming this, just that it's possible and certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

                • eug on 13/02/2019 - 17:20

                  @HighAndDry:

                  I'm not assuming this, just that it's possible and certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

                  Right, so going back to our "reasonable person" who would by definition put the product through "reasonable use" - I don't think a reasonable person, with reasonable use, would expect a ~$1,500 tablet to deform its own casing within 3 years.

                  The decline in battery life after 3 years of use is reasonable, but the deformation of the case is not something you would expect.
                  If the OP was made aware at the time of purchase that the tablet would deform its own casing in 3 years, it is likely he would not have purchased the product. But he was presumably not made aware of it, so he has some ground to fight.

                  Don't forget the ACCC also says that goods must "look acceptable". A bulging deformed case does not look acceptable IMHO.

        • HeWhoKnows on 17/02/2019 - 18:49

          My point exactly !

  • nutsackjake on 13/02/2019 - 14:58
    +1

    Have you tried getting it replaced through Microsoft direct? Their customer service us pretty good and they have a very quick turn around for their replacement mail in program. I had a surface book which had a few issues, about a year and a half old. It took less than a week for me to send my old one to them and get the replacement unit back from them. They set up prepaid postage and all. When logging in to my Microsoft account, I saw that my old laptop had a 3 year warranty, so this might perhaps be your beast option. JB will most likely send it through their solvup system and send it to the same service provider in Sydney that replaced my unit. JB is more limited with their warranty as outlined by their 'your rights' document found on their website.

  • HeWhoKnows on 13/02/2019 - 15:02

    OP may find this article useful.
    Explains why rechargeable laptop batteries can become swollen and its not necessarily a manufacturing fault.
    Also gives tips on what to do if this happens and how to avoid the problem

    https://www.tekrevue.com/swollen-battery/

    This article suggests overcharging due to a faulty battery or faulty charging electronics hence a visit to Microsoft may be warranted.

    https://www.quora.com/What-would-cause-a-phone-battery-to-bu…

  • reactor-au on 13/02/2019 - 16:28

    Not even a smartphone manufacturer will replace the battery for free after 2 years

    • eug on 13/02/2019 - 16:56
      +1

      Samsung replaced my Galaxy S5 swollen battery last year.

      I bought that phone in 2014. Five years ago.

    • HeWhoKnows on 17/02/2019 - 18:51

      Thats my point exactly!

  • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2019 - 19:09
    +1

    This post is from a 2006 Dell with the original battery.

    My Toshiba is in for repair.

  • Mezevenf on 14/02/2019 - 03:12

    I was in this exact scenario except it was with Harvey Norman. They sent it to MS and I got a refurb a few weeks later.

  • tarb on 14/02/2019 - 10:50
    +3

    You could try and contact the manufacturer direct. I had a 2016 Dell XPS 15 that i bough 2nd hand and well out of warranty, that last year had a major swelling battery that had deformed(absolutely wrecked) the case, popped out all the screws, the works. I contacted Dell to try and see if i could buy a replacement battery myself and fit it (i had finally taken the swollen one out cause it was so huge i couldn't depress the track pad anymore - also i didn't want to burn to death in a fire) and they just took over everything, - shipping a whole heap of new parts - not just the battery but a new case, keyboard, track pad and everything direct to a technician, who then came round and fixed everything back to brand new.

    I was pretty impressed, since Im pretty sure they didn't have to do anything. My best guess (why a company would just give stuff away) is that since its a premium product it might have a bit of customer care built into its original sales price, and that taking care of people with premium products might help with retention of a 'better' standard of customer. The surface is also a premium product so you might also get looked after, idk

    gl

  • Topdog on 14/02/2019 - 11:18

    Here we go again

  • bocca on 14/02/2019 - 13:09

    Just get a new one on eBay for $40

    • eug on 14/02/2019 - 13:23

      Have you seen how difficult it is to replace yourself?

      • Zondor on 14/02/2019 - 13:45

        Yep, Surface laptops require you to unglue the top case from memory.

  • kingyr on 14/02/2019 - 15:41

    Contact Microsoft, they take the battery swelling issue very seriously and are a pleasure to deal with. I have had them replace a few for some users here, SP3, SP4 and a Surface Book (perf. base) - all of which were out of warranty, the SP3 was well out (replaced last year).

  • dealsucker on 14/02/2019 - 15:46
    +1

    Even though I do not like Microsoft products, the one time I needed support when I had Surface Pro 3 was pretty good. Just speak to the Microsoft customer care directly. I am pretty sure they will send you a replacement or replace the battery for free.

  • solidussnake on 14/02/2019 - 16:38

    Hey mate ex JB guy of 5 years.

    Go into store and ask for a manager show your invoice and explain the issue and you only have used the surface under 3 years and the expected life of a computer would be up to 4 years depending on how much you paid for etc just tell them you understand your rights under the ACL. The best refund I saw was a samsung 55" paid $3.5k 7 years out of warranty fully refunded lol if you have no luck with JB call Microsoft and repeat what I told you :)

    Thats a dangerous fault I have seen since the Original Surface rts that we used as display screens all 8 of them had the same issue. I would leave it with JB as thats a potential fire risk they should have a microsoft rep either i store or someone they can call about the issue

  • Burnz316 on 14/02/2019 - 16:42

    https://www.jbhifi.com.au/General/Corporate/Consumer-Matters…

    Check out their website. There's a PDF in the above link that has their policy. This is of course on top of any legal obligations.

    Depending on the cost, it may still be covered under warranty.

    Also try Microsoft (tho the call center is off shore and not great) as this is a known issue.

  • Capo93 on 14/02/2019 - 18:15

    Battery is a consumable, don’t like your chances

    • solidussnake on 14/02/2019 - 19:39
      +1

      That is true but its not like its not holding charge its bloody expanding and potentially dangerous…

  • imcold on 14/02/2019 - 18:15

    I would expect a premium device like the surface to work 3 years, and 2 years for your typical electronic device.

    My nearly 3 year old budget windows tablet is doing great. In the last year I even leave it on for weeks at a time.

  • joey005 on 14/02/2019 - 18:39

    I read a customer story on Reddit where the guy had similar issue to your and Microsoft replaced the battery without any cost and it was out of warranty. This is a safety risk and hence Microsoft exchanged it for free.

  • lowballed on 16/06/2019 - 11:14

    Keep hearing dodge stories about Surface Pro 4s so late in the piece (2019). Going cheap, would a Surface Pro 3 still be a better (more reliable) buy?

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