Do The Police Have Too Much Power? Random Pullover

jesho on 02/02/2019 - 17:59
Last edited 02/02/2019 - 18:20 by 1 other user

Hi all,

I was driving down to Melbourne for the long weekend with my partner when we get pulled over by a highway patrol car in Stawell. The officer said it was a random stop and breathalyzed me. It came back clear. He asked for a license and asked a few questions - where do I live/ where am I going/ why? In the meantime, and this part worried me, his partner was checking every corner of my car. It almost felt at this stage as they were looking for something to get me on.

Bit strange but fair enough I suppose. He takes my license back to his car and does some checks. He comes back and checks that my car is an automatic which is a condition of my license - yep all good.

He eventually hands back my license and doesn't really say anything. I ask him if I did anything wrong to which he says as he's walking back to his car "No why", I said well you pulled me over and he says "I can pull over anyone at any time, anywhere" and heads back to his car.

I guess what really concerned me about this interaction was his tone/demeanor - he was very aggressive, and he didn't really explain anything. Interacting with police is intimidating enough but when they seem to have an attitude it really makes you defensive. I don't want to imagine what the experience would have been like if it was just my partner in the car.

It was also quite strange that they singled my car out of all the others on the highway. The cynic in me would say it's because I drive a 20-year-old car - I rarely see nice cars get pulled over for 'random' checks and also because I am growing a beard at the moment, not a nice combination with my middle eastern background.

I did some research and yes police now have the power to pull anyone over at any time without any reason as long as they conduct a breath test.

The incident made me think of a time when I was driving home with a friend and we enter an RBT area. I wasn't drinking so all good and the cop was actually really friendly and had a joke with us about our Halloween costumes. Afterward, my friend remarks that he's surprised they didn't defect my car. Granted my car is old but there's nothing wrong with it and has roadworthy/is regularly serviced etc. His point was more so that the police are a law unto their own and if for some reason they don't like you, there's not much we can do.

For what its worth, I am a big fan of the police. I live in a lower socio-economic area and I see what they have to deal with. They do a great service to the area. My issue is more with the laws, police being able to pull you over for no reason seems excessive. How can we defend ourselves without making things worse?

Would love the community's opinions/experiences.

Jesho

Automotive Police

Comments

  • sgtdanny69148 on 03/02/2019 - 23:25

    WORD OF ADVICE. DON'T BE A SOVEREIGN CITIZEN.

  • Kothos on 03/02/2019 - 23:35
    +2

    50% of police have an attitude problem. Mousey people aren't usually attracted to positions of power - still an improvement over 50 years ago which was still an improvement over a hundred years ago.

    But as AdosHouse says above, they might well have been looking for another car that fit the description of yours.

    I once got pulled over because it was cold. I was driving my shitty old car and wearing gloves and had my hoodie up. Cop pulled me over thinking I'd stolen it (he said as much) but my story made sense and I was only 2km from my house and it was registered in my mum's (same sur)name. So he just said sorry to bug you and let me go.

    Another time, I was knackered from work and fell asleep with my feet up on the train in the middle of the night. Idiot cop yelled at me for 10 minutes then didn't even give me a fine. shrug

  • jetabe on 04/02/2019 - 07:11

    With great power comes potential for great abuse.

    You are lucky we are not living in trumpland otherwise trial and execution by your appearance.

    Aggressive behaviour towards a random pull over tells me he was frustrated. They have politics to deal with at workplace, anything could be a trigger.

    In future suggested to always best to record interactions with this divine being.

  • Moventura on 04/02/2019 - 08:35
    +1

    When I was a teenager growing up in Tasmania (get your license at 17), there may as well have been signs plastered everywhere that said "Police are currently targeting P Platers". I would be pulled over all the time and checked. Police would actually station themselves near the high schools at the end of the school day and do defect searches.

    I remember one day a police car pulling up behind me into a friends driveway. At first I thought they were going to my friends house, but in fact had just followed me in. They asked for my license, then checked all over my car. Found a 10 cm section of my rear tyre that was slightly bald and booked me for it. When I asked why they followed me, they said I was going too fast around a corner. I didn't believe I was so I asked them how fast I was going. They responded with "I don't know, but it was too fast".

    Since relocating to Melbourne I've never had an issue with police. I was pulled over yesterday for the first time in 9 years as I was going over the speed limit. I had been distracted by the kids in the back seat and missed a change of speed limit where it dropped to 40. Area had always been 60 the previous times when I was in the area. I got done doing 53, but was totally my own fault for not paying attention. Police were even nice enough to me to recommend that I send it in to Fines Victoria and ask for a warning as I have has a clean driving record for over 9 years.

    • lysp on 05/02/2019 - 17:29

      I got done doing 53, but was totally my own fault for not paying attention. Police were even nice enough to me to recommend that I send it in to Fines Victoria and ask for a warning as I have has a clean driving record for over 9 years.

      Unfortunately the cut-off for getting a caution instead of a fine is 10km/h over. 13 is too high.

  • wocko1 on 04/02/2019 - 09:30

    I know I have been pulled over twice in Walcha, NSW, and I drive a 2009 Maxima. Both times were RBTs (it wasn't an RBT checkpoint, the cops chucked a U-ie and put their lights on and pulled me over, which is quite nerve wracking), and it was by local police, not Highway Patrol. I am on my green P's, which may probably be the reason I was pulled over "randomly".

  • frostman on 04/02/2019 - 10:06

    Saw the pic of your car, that shouldn't attract a random pullover, It would if it was rusty, banged up or otherwise damaged…

    The 'middle eastern' part is most likely why you were pulled (unfortunately)…

    Must be a Senior Constable (or below), the high ranking ones with experience know exactly who to pull over over years of experience.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/02/2019 - 10:15
    +2

    I don't think police should have the power to wear random pullovers. It would undermine their authority and could be confusing to members of the public.

    • 2ndeffort on 04/02/2019 - 10:27
      +1

      They should change to Cardigans or possibly thermal skivvies!!!

  • Bid Sniper on 04/02/2019 - 10:45

    Its not the only car, its location, time of day and possibly saw you react to them while driving.

    I'm on my second modified WRX never been pulled over but have me tailed a lot by uncover police cars. I have been pulled over by a bastard of a cop in my wife's car randomly.

    Most cops are fine but you get those going through menopause.

  • dhruva-scd on 04/02/2019 - 11:14

    I think Police should have the power to ask everything and check everything when stopped randomly. Good policing should always be there.

    Agreed, that they should do it politely but considering it's the every day routine and there might be some rough days, so straight face should also be ok as long as they are not scolding you for any reason.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:49

      "the power to ask everything and check everything when stopped randomly" Why is so much power necessary?

  • trapper on 04/02/2019 - 13:35
    +3

    Yeah they do have too much power.

    People shouldn't be subjected to random investigation without any probable cause.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:48
      +1

      Agreed. When did probable cause stop being a thing?!

  • foursaken on 04/02/2019 - 15:47
    +2

    As many others have said, I wouldn't have a problem with getting pulled over once like this. If it kept happening, then I would be asking questions. But once? That seems random, right?

    As for abuse of power, well, there are plenty of Federal bills that have been put through in the last two terms that allow huge abuses of power, but it's all behind our backs.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:47

      behind our backs? Care to elaborate? This is what my issue is with, not cops themselves.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/02/2019 - 16:32

    I'm sure they pick their targets for "random" checks to maximize their chances of catching you on something. When I first got my Toyota 86 I used to get a lot "random" stops. Once 3 in a night. Young guy, sometimes on back roads, often late at night, with at that time a sports car that wasn't so common. They probably figure it's a higher chance of me driving in some way illegally than a mum in a 5 year old Camry doing the school run. They're probably not wrong if that's their thinking. It is annoying though. I've not had a "random" stop for a long while though. I have moved town though, and perhaps it's my car being more common so it doesn't stand out as much.

    Ultimately they can stop whoever they want. I don't really disagree with them doing that. They just don't need to he dicks about it. The vast majority of times I've been pulled over they've been courteous and efficient and it's been no great disruption. One guy runs whatever they run on their computer and the other makes me blow in a tube and away I go. Is a bit nerve wracking though. I've only had a few run-ins with cops being high and mighty arseholes.

    And no I'm not driving like a (profanity) to attract the attention.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:46

      I don't understand why we had to lower the bar from 'pull over someone you have reason to suspect is breaking law or has broken the law' to "I can pull over anyone at any time for any reason". Seems a bit much, even if most cops do a great job.

  • Pantagonist on 04/02/2019 - 19:32
    +1

    OP's description sounds like a pretty standard random traffic stop, to be honest.

    Not sure where they got the idea that the officer had an "aggressive tone"? Questions were asked by OP and they were answered factually by the police officer. Sure, that officer may have been terse, but they're not there to engage in jovial conversation.

    Honestly, the best way to deal with police is to go into robot / bureaucrat mode and only provide the bare minimum required information to the requests that are issued by the person asking the questions. Sure, if the officer is friendly and convivial, by all means reciprocate. If they're unemotional and taciturn, you should still reciprocate.

  • spb on 04/02/2019 - 20:17

    I would say generally not, they need the powers they have to do what they need to do. The power to stop whoever they think needs to be stopped to do a breath test or general inspection doesn't seem like too far of an ask, having said that let's not pretend there aren't corrupt cops out there or cops on a power trip who will abuse any powers they are given.

    I've met some unhelpful or rude police officers and ambulance officers a handful of times but the general majority I've interacted with have been nice and just want to do their jobs and help out.

  • smileyface on 05/02/2019 - 00:07

    “I do not answer questions.”
    All you are required to do, is show ID.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:44

      I thought I read somewhere that you have to answer questions to prove your identity? I don't know the law well enough to refuse to answer a question, unfortunately, in case it escalates things.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/02/2019 - 16:31

        At least in QLD according to their own guide on this, if you're stopped you do have to provide your license and give your name and address if asked. You otherwise have the right to not answer any other questions on an RBT stop.

  • abh_gup on 05/02/2019 - 01:14
    +1

    Once the police stop you, they try ever hear to prove a wrong doing. Reasons are because they have to:
    - justify pulling you over, lest you later record a complaint against them.
    - justify the reason they are on the roads doing patrolling
    - justify their pay (from tax-payers money), i.e. prove that they are actually doing some work in lieu of receiving the taxpayers money.
    Anyone here read the article about police falsifying thousands of breath tests, just to 'perform' at their role. A role that's meant to serve the public. Well, each one in the police also has KPIs; they too have to make a living!
    Nonetheless, I always support/applaud those police officers who do actually catch burglars and do some real work of reducing crime, rather than those hiding in tiny alleys and laneways, waiting to issue road fines, just to make their worth known.

  • minklet on 05/02/2019 - 02:44
    +3

    You won't get much sympathy here with all the tedious bootlickers. I think most of the people here would be cool with a routine fist up the arse if it was legal.

    The police here are aggressive, lie, cover their own and deliberately escalate situations. Be respectful but make sure you know your rights.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:43

      I did notice that theme, what's that all about? You should be reasonably skeptical about everyone, especially those that claim to protect you.

  • 91rs on 05/02/2019 - 07:24

    Seems like a normal random pull over.
    Having interstate plates on a car sometimes will attract more attention or might make them want to check up on things (had that a few times) but hardly sounds like anything to cry about. Not every cop is going to have the same kind of interaction with you, some are nice, some are arseholes just like anyone else you might come across.
    If your dad had the car since new its unlikley there was any intel or notes about the vehicle or its occupants, I had a car which had gone through a few owners and I'd be getting pulled over all the time for no reason. Never got any real grief from them about it once ID was provide, didnt give them any attitude to provoke them or inflame the situation.
    Move on with it.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:42

      Car had vic license plates as we're still waiting for probate. to clarify, my issue isn't with this interaction in itself but the fact that they can pull someone over for no reason.

  • lostn on 05/02/2019 - 08:12
    +2

    I'm from VIC was in QLD for a vacation. We rented a van. We got pulled over one night by police for "random" breath test. The driver got a breath test, which is fine. He was cleared. And at this point they should have let us go. But they didn't. Then we each had to step out of the vehicle to be searched for drugs. Seems very odd for a random pull over. Then they searched the van. They interviewed each one of us separately, and asked questions like, where were you heading? What were you doing? Questions that frankly were none of their business. Then they checked all of our licenses and called VIC to check for priors.

    They couldn't find anything on us, but were determined to. They were convinced that we had drugs on us even though we didn't and there was no evidence for them to believe we did. They held us for about 45 minutes all up. And this was supposed to be "random". Do they go through the same rigorous searching on everyone that they pull over for a random breath test?

    At this stage I wanted to call a lawyer. If they think we were doing drugs and wanted a full strip search, then they shouldn't have claimed it was some random breath test we got pulled over for. There was nothing random about it. If they only wanted a breath test, we have a right to refuse them searching every nook and cranny of the van. But we let them anyway, one because we had nothing to hide, and two, if we refused it would appear to them even more likely we did have something to hide. We just wanted it over with and didn't want to complicate things so we let them. But we were very angry.

    We think QLDPol are clowns and I haven't been back there since.

    • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:40

      That sounds horrible, did you do anything after the fact?

      • lostn on 09/02/2019 - 17:30

        We were angry, but what could we do?

        We lost a lot of respect for these police though. Because they were determined in their minds that we had drugs on us, but based on what possible evidence?

        I had never seen anything like this from an RBT. But we don't believe it was random at all, nor was a breath test what they were really after. They might have followed us or come from the same place we'd come from, and it may have been a high crime neighborhood and they thought that if we were coming out of there, we must have just gone and bought some drugs, then followed us for the "Random" BT.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/02/2019 - 16:34

      They can't search your vehicle or your person for an RBT. They require a warrant, your consent, or reasonable suspicion of a crime to search. You aren't required to answer any of those questions for an RBT. You should have made a complaint and if you didn't consent to the search, considered legal action. Sounds like you did consent to the search though. So probably nothing much you can do after the fact.

      • lostn on 09/02/2019 - 17:27

        We just didn't want any delays or hassle. We thought if we just did what they wanted, we'd be on our way. But it took about half an hour. We all had to step out of the vehicle one by one to be searched and interviewed. Then they called Vicpol to check our licenses for any priors. If you refuse, it's usually perceived as an admission of guilt, and it could complicate or delay things further.

  • curtturtle on 05/02/2019 - 08:39
    +1

    I am assuming it was a highway patrol cop. They are generally a$$h0les. Even "real" cops think so. I have had a few police say that HP are just cowboys that want to get into car chases and that no one respects them in the force. Just remember that not all cops are jerks.

  • madseason on 05/02/2019 - 10:37
    +2

    This story reminds me of something…

    Are you okay?
    - Yeah, sure.
    - Yes, sir?
    - Yes, sir.
    - Now, did you say, 'Yes, sir'?
    - I think he said, 'Yeah, sure.'
    - What'd you say, man?
    - Well, I said, 'Yeah, sure,' but what, literally, I said was, 'Yeah, sure, sir.'
    - So you are okay then?
    - Yes, sir.
    - You smell somethin', Rabbit?
    - Fear.

    • abh_gup on 05/02/2019 - 12:18

      Super Troopers (2001).

    • minklet on 06/02/2019 - 08:46

      Meow

  • burningrage on 05/02/2019 - 17:19
    +1

    Methinks the police have too much power for the us but too little power for the crooks.

  • jesho on 09/02/2019 - 11:39

    Hi all,

    Thank you for all your comments.

    To clarify, the officer could have been the most friendly person in the world, my issue is with the fact that they can pull someone over without a reason.

    Whether they're having a bad day or doing a great job is beside the point, it just seems that the law has granted them too much power. Say he took issue with my car and gave me a ticket, yes I could fight it and go to court but that would involve an interstate trip for it only to be he said she said.

    A case study would be airport security and boulders in Melbourne CBD. Yes, bad people do bad things but is the answer to limit the freedoms of your citizens? Yes, limit the freedoms of those that have committed crimes or, there is reasonable suspicion of a crime, but when you can pull someone over for no reason we aren't afforded that presumption of innocence.

    Jesho

  • Nate Almanges on 14/02/2019 - 18:59

    the police are corupt
    they are almost as vlad as russia

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