Motherboard Bricked within Normal Use, Has Been on Repair for a Month and Will Be Longer

TheMoDz on 17/01/2019 - 07:41

I've purchased a Aorus Z390 Master motherboard from PLE last November and fast forward to December 14,I've flashed a BIOS update for it from Gigabyte and it was successful but I couldn't go back to the BIOS to set it up, these Motherboards have built in dual bios and flicked it to the backup and got it back and running, flicked it back, flashed more. Blah blah blah, now the backup BIOS cannot be overwritten manually ONLY auto by the manufacturer meaning, you can't brick it, somehow everything broke and it got bricked, $500 wasted.

IT broke all within normal use, YOU CANNOT flash updates on this Mobo that's not meant for it.

Now I've rang ple and explained to them what happened, the way they said it, it's like not covered in warranty and the guy even says it.

They asked me to bring it back, they attempted to repair it and they couldn't, now they'll send it back to Gigabyte for repair, that was 16th of December and it's been a month, I rang 2 days ago and it's still on their store waiting for done number from Gigabyte, it will take another month when it actually starts moving.

Is there anything in the ACCC that indicates any given timeframe for repairs and it's a major problem, can I fight for a replacement instead?

Thanks.

Computing

Comments

  • whooah1979 on 17/01/2019 - 08:06
    +9

    YOU CANNOT flash updates on this Mobo that's not meant for it.

    Force updating firmware for another mobo on a DualBIOS and bricking it in the process sounds like intentional misuse.

    • eug on 17/01/2019 - 10:39

      Force updating firmware for another mobo on a DualBIOS

      Did he flash another motherboard's firmware onto his?

    • gomertose on 17/01/2019 - 12:52

      I'm sure what he means is… there is no way the motherboard can accept firmware not meant for it and hence op is justifying that the firmware update he installed was correct for the motherboard.

      OP should mention whether the Aorus was manufactured by Gigabyte.

      • whooah1979 on 17/01/2019 - 13:21

        We've owned several DualBIOS mobos since they first came out. It's not easy to brick one of these if one follows the manual. The DualBIOS is designed to prevent bricking by retaining a safe and workable BIOS on the second ROM. It hard to imagine that someone may corrupt both ROM accidentally.

  • veetor on 17/01/2019 - 09:10
    +6

    That's an interesting definition of normal use.

  • kipps on 17/01/2019 - 09:22

    To be clear is the BIOS update you applied from Gigabyte the right one for the model? It seems the above two comments suggest that the BIOS updates you twice applied were not for the correct model, perhaps assuming that in naming the board you did not mention that it was a Gigabyte motherboard.

    • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:04
      -2

      It doesn't actually matter - anyone who knows computers at all knows that flashing bios has a risk of bricking it, and that ALL motherboard manufacturers, without exception, carry warnings that you shouldn't flash the bios yourself unless you absolutely have to. Here's what Gigabyte themselves say on it:

      https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/global/WebPage/20/HowToR…

      The whole BIOS updating procedure should be treated with extreme caution. If you do not encounter any system instability or bugs with the current BIOS version, we suggest that you keep it. If you determine to flash BIOS, you are taking a personal risk of BIOS flash failure.

      • TheMoDz on 17/01/2019 - 14:25

        My golden rule was to not touch bios updates, but that was 5 years ago and I was hoping it's different now, clearly it's not and being a new platform z390, I wanted to keep it updated.

    • TheMoDz on 17/01/2019 - 14:24

      Yes it's specifically from the Aorus z390 master support download page.

  • 87percent on 17/01/2019 - 09:35

    i think when you start flashing firmware you get into a grey area regarding warranty…

    • eug on 17/01/2019 - 10:38
      +1

      If it was the right firmware, why would it be a grey area?

      Why is everyone assuming he flashed the wrong firmware? I can't tell from the post if he flashed a different board's firmware. It sounds like he flashed the right firmware?

      I've flashed a BIOS update for it from Gigabyte

      • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:01

        Because you're never supposed to flash motherboard Bios unless you absolutely need to, precisely because it entails the risk of bricking it irreparably like OP has done.

        • eug on 17/01/2019 - 12:01

          Because you're never supposed to flash motherboard Bios unless you absolutely need to,

          So if you need to, and you flash it according to the instructions, and it fails - it won't be covered by warranty?

          Does the motherboard manual specifically say "Flashing the BIOS will immediately void your warranty"?

          A random quote on a website does not count as different products can have different warranty terms. The information that was provided with the motherboard, or along with the BIOS download, is what matters.

          • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 12:09

            @eug:

            So if you need to, and you flash it according to the instructions, and it fails - it won't be covered by warranty?

            If you followed the instructions implicitly? Maybe. If your system is malfunctioning and it's still under warranty, you shouldn't be attempting DIY repairs anyway, same with any other product.

            • eug on 17/01/2019 - 12:48
              +1

              @HighAndDry:

              you shouldn't be attempting DIY repairs anyway, same with any other product.

              The target market for these enthusiast/gaming motherboards is not the same as any other product.

              These products are targeted directly at two groups of users:

              • People who can build their own computers - the DIY market.

              • People who do research themselves and get an SI to build it (or find an SI that uses it).

              That is why the only way you can purchase these motherboards is with full-color retail packaging adorned with heavy branding and features.

              If they were only aimed at SIs, they would be sold in plain white boxes or antistatic packaging.

              Even way back in 2012, Gigabyte was already marketing their high-end motherboards to DIY users as well as SIs.

              In fact, DIY customers are such a large part of Gigabyte's motherboard sales that a dwindling DIY sector is touted to be the reason why their shipments dropped so much.

              You can also just do a Google search for the term "motherboard DIY" on their website and you can clearly see that Gigabyte markets their motherboards to DIY users.

              So - since Gigabyte directly markets DIY parts to DIY users, I think it is fair for those users to do DIY fixes which includes simple things like flashing a BIOS, which technically is not much different to installing a software update on a phone - both have bricked devices in the past.

              The key thing is, did the OP stuff up the update, or was the motherboard simply faulty? Flashing a BIOS will not void the warranty, but flashing it incorrectly would.

              • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 13:04

                @eug:

                That is why the only way you can purchase these motherboards is with full-color retail packaging adorned with heavy branding and features.

                Have you not heard of OEM parts? These are definitely sold OEM to system integrators too.

                So - since Gigabyte directly markets DIY parts to DIY users

                But this works in the reverse too - ACL guarantees all include an element of reasonableness. And the comparative expertise of the end-user is a factor. For example: one of the ACL guarantees is "fit for purpose". For a mum or dad who buys a computer part, knows nothing, and is sold a part that doesn't fit what they need, their rights would be a lot stronger than a DIY PC enthusiast who knows their stuff. In this case, the fact that OP is apparently (or thinks he is) a PC enthusiast blunts his ACL rights somewhat.

                The key thing is, did the OP stuff up the update, or was the motherboard simply faulty?

                Considering OP mentioned ZERO issues with the motherboard before he apparently flashed its BIOS multiple times, probabilities are very much on the side that there was nothing wrong with the motherboard.

                • eug on 17/01/2019 - 13:34
                  +1

                  @HighAndDry:

                  Have you not heard of OEM parts? These are definitely sold OEM to system integrators too.

                  Can you name an SI who purchases Aorus Z390 Master motherboards in OEM packaging?

                  ACL guarantees all include an element of reasonableness.

                  I think updating a BIOS with software supplied by the manufacturer is a reasonable thing to do.

                  The @BIOS software is right on the APP Center main screen, which is where you find all the programs supplied with the motherboard.

                  The UI of the flashing software is clearly aimed at the end user. As part of the update process it even asks if you would like to replace the bootup logo with your own design, so it's clearly not a tool aimed at service technicians.

                  It is a normal piece of software that they included with the board for users to use as part of their "normal usage".

                  And the comparative expertise of the end-user is a factor.

                  Maybe 10 years ago, updating a BIOS would be a risky process that only techs should perform with DOS boot disks, command-line flashing utilities, and manual ROM downloads.

                  Nowadays, as you can see, flashing a BIOS is as easy as installing a Windows update. The Dual BIOS feature that's advertised by Gigabyte acts as a safety net in case something goes wrong - or at least it's meant to.

                  probabilities are very much on the side that there was nothing wrong with the motherboard.

                  It is advertised as having a Dual Bios feature which, according to their site, makes it impossible to brick a motherboard with a BIOS update. If that feature failed, then it did not perform as advertised.

                  However - we still haven't heard from the OP. Maybe he did do something silly and somehow corrupted the second backup BIOS. Or maybe he just has a faulty motherboard - that's not uncommon too.

                  • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 13:48

                    @eug: I'm pretty sure you can break any piece of computer hardware if you tried hard enough. And OP apparently tried pretty hard:

                    these Motherboards have built in dual bios and flicked it to the backup and got it back and running, flicked it back, flashed more. Blah blah blah

                    That "blah blah blah" slightly worries me.

                    Nowadays, as you can see, flashing a BIOS is as easy as installing a Windows update.

                    I mean, from OP's post, apparently not.

                    In any case, flashing BIOS is not "normal use" of a computer in any way shape or form. The only case in recent memory that I can remember that flashing a BIOS was actually required is with the AMD Ryzen 2nd gen CPUs which required BIOS updates to 1st gen motherboards to be functional.

  • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 09:46

    I'm not seeing why your bricking your mobo would be covered under warranty.

    • Hybroid on 17/01/2019 - 10:56
      +2

      Gigabyte will need to assess if the BIOS corruption was done by an appropriate update (in which case it's covered) or an incorrect one not suited for the board (in which case I don't imagine it will be).

      If a legit update for the board itself caused an issue, definitely covered by warranty. You would expect the same for your phone, camera, TV, etc…

      • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:00
        -1

        Gigabyte will need to assess if the BIOS corruption was done by an appropriate update

        There is no such thing as an "appropriate update" in terms of Bios flashing. Every motherboard manufacturer advises, in very strong terms, that you should never flash a motherboard Bios unless there are issues with the motherboard that can only be addressed by a bios update.

        • Hybroid on 17/01/2019 - 11:05
          +1

          While you're correct that you shouldn't flash/update BIOS unless absolutely required to resolve an issue, all manufacturers do provide updates and guides to do so. They also state that if you run into issues, contact supplier for help.

          Please contact your supplier or our distributors/resellers for further remedy in case system crashes unfortunately because of BIOS flash failure.

          https://www.gigabyte.com/webpage/20/HowToReflashBIOS.html

          ASUS seems to quite happily provide multiple options for it.

          https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1008276/
          https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1008859

          Either case, I would certainly expect warranty to apply if doing an update causes an issue.

          • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:09
            -1

            @Hybroid: Unfortunately no, flashing the bios is not "normal use" of a motherboard by a long shot. No everyday consumer will be flashing their bios. It's an extra function but only for people who know what they're doing and willing to take the risk of it failing.

            • Hybroid on 17/01/2019 - 11:14
              +2

              @HighAndDry: I'll have to disagree with you there (although didn't downvote).

              There's dozens of forum posts online of people asking the question and others confirming that updating BIOS does NOT void warranty. But even if we dismiss them all as randoms, there's these 2 official responses from DELL and HP confirming this too. I'm sure there's plenty more out there.

              https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Wil…

              Will not void the warranty.

              https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebooks-Archive-Read-Only/BI…

              It will not affect or void your notebook’s warranty if you update the Bios and drivers directly from the HP support site. Link for updated bios and drivers: http://hp.com.drivers

              • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 12:13

                @Hybroid: Dell and HP are slightly different because they sell full systems, not individual components. The risks are thus lower, and the additional risks to Dell and HP are lower still (because the system is all from Dell or HP anyway, so any defects are already their responsibility to fix), and a user DIY'ing from their official website saves them on support expenses.

                This is unlike individual component manufacturers, where an issue that can be solved by a motherboard bios update might be a software or other component issue.

                Even from your Dell link:

                Will not void the warranty. Are you sure you need to update the BIOS? This should only be done if you have a problem that is explicitly covered by the update. BIOS updates can be dangerous, and you really should not do them after your warranty is over. Most users should never have to do a BIOS update, and even driver updates (much safer to do) are rarely needed.

                I haven't been negging either btw.

    • Krankite on 17/01/2019 - 11:03
      +1

      It's a tricky one to tell from our side, either he followed the correct method to flash firmware so the fault is with gigabyte so he is covered or he did something wrong so isn't covered.

      Because he isn't a professional we now get to witness a shit fight between him and gigabyte to prove who's responsible. PLE is unlikely to be able to tell whether the firmware flash was done properly or wasn't so have hand-balled it to gigabyte.

      As for the comment "YOU CANNOT flash updates on this Mobo that's not meant for it" I assure you it is possible might not be easy but definitely possible, however if you used the @bios tool I don't see why you wouldn't have an argument since it is an advertised feature. Might also have to check the details of the Bios you flashed it may have made something incompatible, its rare but sometimes happens.

      • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:05
        -1

        either he followed the correct method to flash firmware so the fault is with gigabyte

        Unfortunately I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but "following the correct method from Gigabyte" to flash the Bios is to just NOT flash the bios.

        however if you used the @bios tool I don't see why you wouldn't have an argument since it is an advertised feature.

        It is, but ostensibly it makes bios recoveries and updates when they are necessary, easier. Since I don't want to live in a world where everything is locked down like Apple products, I don't support the notion that every feature on a product can be used and/or abused by a customer without taking any responsibility for it. OP wanted to pay around with the BIOS, fine - but OP also has to take responsibility for the risk they're taking in doing so.

        • Hybroid on 17/01/2019 - 11:08

          but "following the correct method from Gigabyte" to flash the Bios is to just NOT flash the bios.

          If that was the case, they wouldn't provide readily available tools and options for doing so. It's a last resort solution but a valid one.

          • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:16
            -1

            @Hybroid: These tools are equally, and more appropriately, able to be used by IT staff in shops, or IT support. Just because they exist does not mean they are actually recommended to be used by the end-consumer by Gigabyte.

            As an example - motherboards also have user-replaceable CPUs, RAM, etc. But I would NOT recommend any normal user to do their own computer builds, because it is far too easy to short out something, or otherwise break something. And in those cases, it wouldn't be covered under warranty either.

        • Krankite on 17/01/2019 - 11:10
          +1

          Gigabyte advertises there @Bios as a feature, To quote their website

          "The GIGABYTE @BIOS app allows you to update your system’s BIOS from within Windows using a simple and slick graphical user interface. @BIOS can automatically download the latest version from the GIGABYTE servers or you can update your BIOS from a file on your computer. @BIOS also allows you to save your current BIOS to a file, recover your previous BIOS from an image and backup your BIOS to an image."

          This isn't a standard consumer board where your advise is relevant but a gaming board targeting over clockers where a 1% increase in ram due to upgraded bios is relevant. These boards come at a premium price and advertise feature like dual bios for a reason. If the company is advertising dual bios ans Bios update tools it is an expectation that they work.

          • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 11:13
            -1

            @Krankite:

            If the company is advertising dual bios ans Bios update tools it is an expectation that they work.

            No, it's an option, but an option with risks that the consumer has to decide whether or not they want to take. And no, you wouldn't be flashing a bios to get performance gains. Can I talk to people with actual computer knowledge here please?

            The whole BIOS updating procedure should be treated with extreme caution. If you do not encounter any system instability or bugs with the current BIOS version, we suggest that you keep it. If you determine to flash BIOS, you are taking a personal risk of BIOS flash failure.

            To use an example I gave above, the motherboards also have user replaceable CPU and RAM slots, PCIe slots, etc. But I wouldn't recommend any normal end-user, or even any normal gamer (just because you game doesn't mean you have any knowledge of computer hardware or software) to do their own hardware upgrades - just because there is far too high a risk you'll short something out or otherwise break something. And those wouldn't be covered under warranty either.

  • TheMoDz on 17/01/2019 - 14:31
    +1

    I've flashed from aorus z390 update downloaded specifically from the Aorus z390 support downloaded page, what broke my Mobo is a BIOS update that was released a couple of days old.

    With an update of CPU microcode update something.
    So I flashed that and all my problems started, new Mobo z390 with i7-9700k.

    • HighAndDry on 17/01/2019 - 15:04

      With an update of CPU microcode update something.

      Could it be a CPU issue and not a motherboard one? Afaik, there's no way to really check unless you try another mobo or CPU, because either mobo issue or CPU issue will prevent POST.

      • TheMoDz on 17/01/2019 - 18:05

        PLE took it in and they couldnt fix it, im guessing they would have tried a different CPU.

  • daiwai on 20/01/2019 - 11:00

    Just one question, did they provide crc or md5 for you to check when you download the bios?

    • eug on 20/01/2019 - 11:38

      Being such a critical part of the computer, it'd be incredibly poor programming practice on the flashing software's part if it didn't check for corruption before flashing.

      • TheMoDz on 24/01/2019 - 16:04

        exactly, ive been flashing phones for years now and if it has something to do with "flashing" theres usually high security with corrupted or incompatible packages.

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