2 tins per customer clearly not working, my Coles has empty shelves and I see at least one article a week at a different place where they record people shameless Chinese buying baby formula in bulk. I'm bloody sick of it and I don't even have kids.
Is there anything we can do to stop it? Name and shame?
I agree with the spice part.. but there are other disgusting odors which I experience only in other countries.. been to the US and it was like standing in a bathroom all the time..
Breast is best.
Two solutions:
I heard this Midnight Oil song the other day and i thought how wrong old Pete was:
"US Forces give the nod, it's a setback for your country
Bombs and trenches all in rows, bombs and threats still ask for more"
Replace "US Forces", with CHINESE influence.
Maybe make it prescription only?
Wouldn't change it enough, look in to the amount of PBS scams going on where Chinese get meds at PBS rate ($6.40for a drug worth hundreds in some cases) and take them back legally to china, where its a miracle they don't need the drugs so sell it locally for inflated prices.
It would just make life harder for actual parents, not the parasites that are buying up local supply. They've got enough to contend with, also GP's have waiting lines out the door at most I've been to and do not have the time.
we faced this problem when using Aptamil … sometimes had to wait overnight to get stock …
Please remove the link to the ebay item as it looks like spam. We all know what is going on around this, and nobody needs a direct link to an ebay item here.
Another formula thread.
You can buy all the formula online directly from the formula companies, they are all in stock too, it's called online shopping.
The reason being why no action has been taken is because it's not illegal. It's benefiting Australian companies / NZ / keeping people employed at the factories making the formula and it keeps the farmers in business too.
The vital point is this, the world formula industry to supply China is competitive. France, NZ, America all supply china directly and are in competition with our factories here. A2 and Bellamys Organics to name a few are in a bitter fight for the market there. When things turn around and for some reason the Chinese stop buying our formula what shall we tell the employees of these companies?
If people on Ozbargain had contacts to flog milkpowder in China, you'd all be guilty of it.
lol. Get cashback 25% with every 6 cans of formula you can attain.
Just see it as Chinese people's ozbargain and making a quick buck.
As I mentioned before, I'm half Chinese, dad can speak multiple Chinese languages and have contacts.
just turned off the TV.
I wish I could speak Mandarin. We have shitloads in our supermarkets, I'd totally Broden the shit out of it lol
Capitalism.
Does anyone else remember when the first few iterations of the iPhones came out people would buy like 10+ at once to resell
They can't do it anymore because most store shave like 2 per customer limits in place but same scenario
Online pharmacies should do some sort of lay-by or inventory hold for Aus residents month supply at a time, sweeten the deal with promotions like cashback or giftcards, something exclusive for them when they do it online so it doesn't seem like a drastic measure to ensure they can get milk powder
This is ridiculous. How can this be right. Its not a matter of legal or illegal. Its just basic decency.
A section of people are exploiting a scarcely available resource for their cheap personal monetary gain.
Not all kids are compatible with all baby powder. Only one baby power works for my kid in terms of how good she digests it.
I would definitely be pissed of if i don't find it stocked in my local wollies/coles.
To stop this nonsense, it should be regulated.
I have found this happen in every suburb that i have lived in. It is a wide spread problem.
Its not about retailers not stocking it properly, may be the product can only be produced in limited quantity.
Its funny when people say, first come first served. ha ha. this is not black friday sale.
a scarcely available resource
This is a myth according to Freedom Foods.
https://honey.nine.com.au/2018/12/14/14/42/baby-formula-shor…
"There is enough supply for Australian mothers as well as exports to China," Dr Sonja Kukuljan, Group General Manager of Nutrition at Freedom Foods tells 9Honey.
Scarcely available based on what I find in my local super markets. Sorry, haven't done extensive research. Just based on my experience.
You're right, knowing that it's not scarce doesn't change anything. You're not magically able to buy it in store anymore than if you didn't know so it doesn't solve the issue at hand
A really reliable source. Freedom Foods - they don't produce any baby milk.
Her source is a prominent daigou claiming they are deliberately restricting supply…
They may as well interview random dude on the train…
Do some research before giving opinions.
Jump on aptmil ballamy or a2, website and check availability then come back and talk about availability.
Jump on aptmil ballamy or a2, website and check availability
This thread is about parents being able to buy food for their bubs at their local supermarket.
Sorry, I did not do extensive research on this. This is purely based on my experience in my local super market.
Few of my friends have also complained. Online shopping would be attached with shipping cost. Especially if you by direct from the manufacturer website. So, you think what is happening here is absolutely normal? We should either time when woolies or coles stock their shelf and queue up at 7 or pay extra for shipping and wait for the product to come home?
You don't see this as out of order?
Having consulted for the powder processing industry - there may be adequate supply.
I'll leave you with two hypothetical questions:
Company MILKCOW sells to Customer A at 70% markup and Customer B at 50% markup. Who gets stock priority?
If customer A could not be supplied on a constant basis, Customer A might buy from competitor Company MILKMOOSE decreasing Company MILKCOW's market share.
As a shareholder of Company MILKCOW, I would want constant service of my customer at the highest possible GP.
Welcome. To. Capitalism.
The report provided by the Rural Bank doesn't support the argument that there is the shortage. Australia exported 210m kg of milk powder in 2017 and the forecast for 2018 is 230m kg.
https://www.ruralbank.com.au/assets/responsive/pdf/publicati…
I am not that savy to talk about australia's export/import policies. As an layman, i see this as an issue. If the people who are doing this, think of other parents who might need it and who might need it on an urgent basis, they wouldn't do it. Basic, human decency is what is lacking here.
There was a glut of milk powder (it is a commodity).
Transforming it into baby formula isn't super complex, but it is a bit more processing.
There have been blips due to contamination, etc. So it's not something you can do in your backyard. There is an Australian / New Zealand standard for infant formula and the formulation is harmonised.
There are some 'extra' components that some brands add to try to differentiate their products.
why are we still discussing it as if it is a problem? And people are still giving hatred and solutions.
Buy online please. I don’t see any parents in Australia are out of reach of internet.
why are we still discussing it as if it is a problem? And people are still giving hatred and solutions.
You don't get to tell people what to discuss.
A woman was assaulted lastweek by a scumbag at woolworths while she attempted to record him and his lowlife cronies working around the 2 tin limit by raiding the store as a gang.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/brazen-baby-formula…
Buy online please. I don’t see any parents in Australia are out of reach of internet.
Those ratbags who are exporting it could instead order online, but they're deciding to raid the physical stores and make it hard for parents to buy some for their bub for in case of an urgent need.
Also, not all parents are internet savvy. Why should they have the convenience of walking down to the supermarket and buying some food for their bub, right?
Dude….my mind is blown
This explains the mini-packing warehouse outside of Hurstville's Westfields
Mostly just jealous entitled people who have no kids commenting, lol
xenophobia is an Australian past time
Xenophobia is human nature. Literal newborn babies exhibit xenophobia.
Got a source for that?
@HighAndDry: Interesting, thanks. I think more research would need to be done into it.
But the researchers say their findings show that babies may develop racial biases not because of negative experiences, but rather because of a lack of experience with people of other races.
This makes me feel like it's not xenophobia in literal newborns but in slightly older babies that have spent their time growing up with a certain family and show a tendency to favour people who are more like them in unfair situations.
I'm reminded of some animals that lost their mothers and were adopted by other species and afterwards probably saw themselves as those animals. Obviously this comparison to humans isn't the same but I'd be interested to see what happens in these experiments when a baby has been adopted at an extremely young age by parents that don't match the baby's skin colour.
@peco: I think you're misreading the quoted paragraph:
But the researchers say their findings show that babies may develop racial biases not because of negative experiences, but rather because of a lack of experience with people of other races.
That's precisely what xenophobia is - fear (or antipathy) towards the unknown.
a tendency to favour people who are more like them
This is also precisely what xenophobia is. Favouring the known/familiar.
There are always two sides of the stories, eg: ugly duckling vs mowgli
No doubt the people selling it to China are avoiding paying tax on their huge markup. So yes it’s illegal.
A2, aptimail or those big wholesalers, I agree.
But “people”, serious? I can assure you 90% of them who buy from shelfs are making less than 30000 a year. Most of them could not be bored doing tax return and even if they do, they pretty much do not have to pay tax after claiming the wages, patrol and vehicle usage, etc.
I can assure you 90% of them who buy from shelfs are making less than 30000 a year
There are so many things wrong with this that I don't know where to start. First off, you do not know how much these gangs make in a year (feel free to back up your statement with data otherwise). Secondly, it's irrelevant how much they make, because if they fall into the tax bracket, they MUST pay taxes like the rest of us.
Most of them could not be bored doing tax return.
This kind of attitude doesn't bode well with our society that's built by paying proper taxes.
First I didnot say it is right thing to do that they donot lodge tax return, I said many of them could not be bored because they thought they donot make much and would end up not paying tax anyway.
I agree that everyone who makes an income should lodge tax return and let the law decide whether you should pay tax or not.
Second I take the “assure” thing back, yes I can not give you a real number. I should have said that from what I know and what I heard, some of them have jobs, many are housewives, some old fellows buy and sell them to local buyers. These people either donot have much time or too old to clear the shelf’s store by store, they more likely stick to certain stores close by.
I only know two, does daigou as full time and they do make more than 50000 a year.
These people either donot have much time or too old to clear the shelf’s store by store, they more likely stick to certain stores close by.
Don't be ridiculous, mate. We're not discussing about those housewives or old men who buy and sell a couple of tins, but are discussing about those criminals who operate as a gang and clear the supermarket shelves and will not hesitate to physically assault people who they perceive to be in their way. This has been caught in video several times, and is widely available.
I some people like you will believe in what they want to, even in the face of hard, irrefutable evidence which says otherwise.
@aussieolfaction: It's really no different to your business hawking deodorants on eBay at a markup to retailers. It's actually quite ironic that you're so vocal against a business model that you're using.
you're so vocal against a business model that you're using.
This is like saying that I wear pants, and the guy who assaulted the mum at the supermarket also was wearing pants, and therefore we're somehow similar.
Besides, all "business models" (fancy term) that sell products will do so at a markup, or else they wouldn't be running it for too long.
If you read through the posts carefully, my chief complaint, and outrage has been that a mum was assaulted in a public place by these group of people while they were grabbing the formula can, and this is what I've been repeatedly, and vocally complaining about.
I have never taken an interest in this topic until this happened, and I have nothing against anyone running any business, contrary to what you're trying to imply.
and even worse when senior tax officials are told not to pursue indians or chinese
The act of reselling this good isn't unlawful. Their tax liability on any taxable income derived from reselling is a separate issue to their enterprise activities.
Tongue in cheek about the tax.
I just dislike the practise. I’ve been nearly bundled over by overly aggressive Asian’s doing formula grabs at my local coles in teams of 10 or so.
I’ve been nearly bundled over by overly aggressive Asian’s doing formula grabs at my local coles in teams of 10 or so.
A woman was assaulted last week. Nobody responds to any of these comments though.
@aussieolfaction: yeah I've noticed this. People post generic comments like 'its legal', 'fake news' but they don't seem to respond to the very clear video evidence online
By saying anyone can buy baby formula online without any problem and I got negative vote. Seriously? Based on what? Just hatred?
That's what this new-age up/downvote system does, people downvote you for saying things they don't like and in turn the opinions in the thread most of the time tips over one way to become a "circle jerk"
I absolutely bloody detest it and reddit/voat has made the internet worse for popularizing this system
Imagine you had to start buying milk and bread online whenever you needed it if they starter clearing the shelves. It might not be that much of an inconvenience for you, but that doesn't mean it's not for others.
It got a negative vote (not by me) I'm assuming because you're telling people to just change the way they shop because people are clearing shelves and sending to China. Basically suck it up and shop elsewhere.
Any kiwis here can tell us whether it is the same happened in NZ shops?
Go to your local community pharmacy and establish a relationship with the pharmacist or pharmacy retail manager if they do not already know you. Tell them what formula you need and they will make sure you they keep adequate supply for you, even if they don't stock it most of them are able to order them in for you. When your down to your last tin, phone ahead in advance and make sure they have stock or kept some aside for you.
I work in pharmacy and have many mothers come in and purchase formula knowing I always carry the formula they need.
They buy it here because it’s cheaper and safer than what’s on offer locally
Maybe we should ban all the cheap imports that come from China and stick to what we’re forced to pay locally?
are we talking about stop buy most of stuffs from, Kmart, target, myer and most of other stores?
they don't make USB cables and other products locally.
besides, their milk shortage isn't our problem.
Saw it in news that Chinese students earning 100k selling them. And I am thinking what am I doing with my career:(
Yea and how much tax are they paying??
0
How much tax are we paying? How much are we earning? :(
well most who run are a business making 100k are paying the appropriate tax.
“News” these days is more like a joke. They say what people wanna hear. true or not, who cares.
“News” these days is more like a joke. They say what people wanna hear. true or not, who cares.
This is another baseless statement. Australia is not a one-party communist run country where the news is controlled by the ruling party. If news channels propagate lies, they WILL BE penalised here (unlike in countries like China or North Korea).
Then, on what bases that they said students makes more than100k a year?
Talking about news control, is it really they are not bias? And they will be penalized, come on mate, Australia is not a perfect world.
Then, on what bases that they said students makes more than100k a year?
I don't run any news channels, so you should perhaps contact the news channel and ask them these questions.
Talking about news control, is it really they are not bias?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
And they will be penalized, come on mate.
Yes, news channels will be penalised for misleading and/or fake news (when I say this, I'm talking about Australia here, not China or some other country held back by some authoritarian regime). News channels and other large corporations have been fined several times in the past, and information on this shouldn't be hard to find. If you're not sure where to start looking, this will help: https://www.google.com/search?q=7+news+network+fined&oq=7+ne…
Australia is not a perfect world
Nothing can be perfect, but we Aussies come close enough. If it were not one of the best countries to live in, we wouldn't be seeing people from other countries emigrating by the tens of thousands. We wouldn't be seeing these crazy maniacs trying to empty the baby formula off our supermarket shelves to send back to China.
I live in Australia, because it's perfect enough for me.
@aussieolfaction: So, we donot know whether their news have solid bases or not and we just trust them?
The example that you showed on the other hand showed that they are bias and that’s why they got fined. Now we just trust their bias news without questioning?
Australia is a beautiful world, a better world in many ways and might be perfect to you. That does not make it perfect in everyways.
So, we donot know whether their news have solid bases or not and we just trust them?
Yes, trust them with the assurance that if they mislead the consumers they will be fined, and it will all be made public.
The example that you showed on the other hand showed that they are bias and that’s why they got fined.
I think there's a communication gap here, but I don't know how to bridge that gap. I'm trying to tell you that if large corporations are deceptive, they will be fined, and that it will all be made public (for the 4th time). This won't happen in backwards countries like China where the authoritarian government lies all they want by using news as a medium, as they control it.
Now we just trust their bias news without questioning?
Now this is getting ridiculous. Which bias are you talking about? Please prove that they're biased right now with respect to this news. There are recorded videos of Chinese lowlife gangs operating to clear the baby formula from the shelves of supermarkets.
And you're telling me that Aussie parents should order online instead of walking to the supermarket, all the while these crooks merrily carry on with their abhorrent behaviour. Get your priorities sorted, mate.
does not make it [Australia] perfect in everyways.
You also 'forgot' to answer my other question: If Australia is so imperfect, I wonder why the immigrants are flocking in, and the Chinese gangs are emptying our formula cans and sending it back to China.
The idea that this place must be "perfect" according to individuals is a toxic one. It's what it is, and it's a million times better than numerous other countries.
Having said it all, I didn't ever tell you that Australia is perfect in every way. Besides, that's completely irrelevant to this discussion, so please stick to the point if you intend to carry on this discussion.
May be you could start by telling me what you think about those Chinese thugs who assaulted an Australian mum in a supermarket, and are continuing to empty the baby formula from the supermarket shelves.
Saw it in news that Chinese students earning 100k selling them.
A $100000 net profit is doubtful. WaterMark has done a rough estimate on the profit on six tins.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/6792913/redir
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/6790803/redir
Really, it's not their fault. They are technically allowed to buy as much tins as possible as long as the Government does not ban them.
Really, it's not their fault. They are technically allowed to buy as much tins as possible as long as the Government does not ban them.
Essentially, you expect that basic decency should be legislated? I'm speechless.
Whom or what defines what "basic decency" is perceived to be, if not for legislation (or religion's original intent I suppose)?
The perception of what's logical/common sense/decent differs based on cultures, ethnicities, background, experiences, society etc…
Whom or what defines what "basic decency" is perceived to be, if not for legislation (or religion's original intent I suppose)? The perception of what's logical/common sense/decent differs based on cultures, ethnicities, background, experiences, society etc…
I will start defining basic decency as "not violently assaulting a woman" (or not assaulting anyone, literally).
https://au.news.yahoo.com/mum-violently-assaulted-filming-wo…
@aussieolfaction: An alleged assault is a criminal matter and should be reported should investigated by the LAC. It's a separate issue to the topic.
@aussieolfaction: I bet she filmed without their consent, perhaps she should have considered that first.
I bet she filmed without their consent, perhaps she should have considered that first.
The supermarket is a public place, and one need not obtain anyone's consent to film anything that goes on there.
Leaving that aside, physically assaulting is not a very civil way to respond - a polite request to not be filmed may have been more appropriate. But from what I'm reading, civility, common courtesy, and basic decency seems to be uncommon among certain cultures.
Woolworths is a public place? Yeh, you're wrong there.
While Woolworths may be privately owned by a corporation, a public place is defined by law as: "A public place is considered a social space that is open and accessible to everyone". And so it would appear that you're the one wrong.
Besides, you seem to be completely ignoring the most important point I'm trying to make: physically assaulting is not a very civil way to respond - a polite request to not be filmed may have been more appropriate. But from what I'm reading, civility, common courtesy, and basic decency seems to be uncommon among certain cultures.
@aussieolfaction: Once again… "civility, common courtesy, and basic decency" differ from culture to culture. There's no specific definition of them so you cannot qualify what's right/wrong except within the confines of the law.
You keep bringing the same alleged assault over and over, which I and others have said, is not a matter of decency but is plain wrong and illegal. It should be reported to police as a crime and dealt with accordingly.
You keep bringing the same alleged assault over and over, which I and others have said, is not a matter of decency but is plain wrong and illegal. It should be reported to police as a crime and dealt with accordingly.
It's not an "alleged" assault - it's been recorded on video, so I'm not sure why you say it's alleged.
I was responding to the other person as they were completely ignoring that part. I needed to hear what they have to say about this, because they were rather arguing about what constitutes as a public space.
It's not an "alleged" assault - it's been recorded on video, so I'm not sure why you say it's alleged.
Because:
A) I haven't seen the video.
B) We don't know the authenticity of it nor the surrounding factors or events that may not be captured on the video.
C) Most importantly: Australia operates an 'innocent until proven guilty' (Presumption of Innocence) legislation so the only person that can declare it an actual assault is a judge, not common folk.
@aussieolfaction: Silly you, stop reading american sites that don't apply in Australia.
Perhaps you can include the full quote: https://lawpath.com.au/blog/legal-film-public-places
A public place is considered a social space that is open and accessible to everyone, SUCH AS A PARK OR ROAD.
In the next line that you conveniently left out:
"In contrast, private property is a space where the landowner can set rules and impose restrictions. For example, private residences, SHOPPING CENTRES"////You may only be allowed to film certain objects or locations.
Silly you, stop reading american sites that don't apply in Australia.
I've to tell you that you're not making any sense, whatsoever. That link you've provided talks about "bag search policies", which has nothing to do with our discussion.
Let me help you: https://lawpath.com.au/blog/legal-film-public-places
Refer to point# 1 in there which should help you understand what a public place is.
PS: I've blocked you from sending me private messages, as it's serving no purpose.
"In contrast, private property is a space where the landowner can set rules and impose restrictions. For example, private residences, SHOPPING CENTRES"////You may only be allowed to film certain objects or locations.
So, you're saying that Woolworths has a "no recording" policy? Please go ahead and prove it.
You still haven't bothered to comment if it's OK to assault someone just because they were recording on their phone.
@aussieolfaction: I'd bother if you prove there was an assault that occurred … i'll be waiting.
If you come into someone's house, you're ok to record? do you need rules for every aspect of life?
Brb buying a few tins, will reply to you later :)
I'd bother if you prove there was an assault that occurred … i'll be waiting.
I've linked to the news article several times in this thread. Time for you to prove that woolworths has a no recording policy as that's what you were basing your argument on.
If you come into someone's house, you're ok to record? do you need rules for every aspect of life?
A private residence and a supermarket cannot be compared the same way - as stated, please feel free to prove that woolworths has a no recording policy. nd as I've stated several times, it still doesn't warrant a physical assault just because someone was recording on their phone.
@TightAl: and the worst that can happen is the owner of the facility can ask you to leave.
Not give the right to assault the person filming…
You're right, no one defines it but when what you're doing is making news headlines and you hear mother's having trouble buying formula, then that's a good place to start looking at whether what you're doing is right or not. Do you honestly think these people don't know what they're doing? That their sense of morals is so different that they think this is ok?
No, it's simply money driving them.
and you hear mother's having trouble buying formula
It's much easier for them to complain than to go online and buy it (assuming you can't just ask coles and woolworths to check out back for some), right?
Why is this still a thing? We live in a market economy, surely when there's heaps of demand and low supply the solution is to just produce more or raise the price, is it not?
Rationing is a thing that belongs in a communist country.
Bellamy's was a big seller a few years ago so they started producing as much as they could to supply demand. Something happened and Chinese demand dropped and they were left with tens of thousands of baby formula they couldn't sell. I'm guessing the popular brands a2 and Aptimal don't want have a massive inventory of stock in case their popularity drops. I know that a2 don't have any production issues they are really about controlling their inventory.
I think this has more to do with how much supermarkets actually physically put on shelves (likely due to shelf space restrictions) rather than how much is manufactured. I'd wager this is an almost non-existent problem in comparison to the media coverage, otherwise supermarkets would just stock more or they'd just ship pallets to these people directly.
The supermarkets here have the power more than manufacturers, if you can't meet their ordering requirements they'll drop you as a supplier. Empty shelf space is expensive.
The gov needs to put a stop/or export liscene on the baby formula export privately like NZ gov does. Problem solved. Will oz gov do that? Of course not, supermarket and pharmacy bosses like to see the quick turover, pretending to place a 2 tin limit. The big daigous dont get stock from supermarket/pharmacy branches, they get stock from distributors ditectly. The A2 producer Synlaite has no problem to meet oz market orders, but A2 simply dsont want to see this happening coz news paper, facebook debating, supermaket swarming by daigou were all free advertisement for A2. What a great front page news with a photo or video of ppl with a trolly full of A2 baby formula lining up at check out. The more shortage in australian market, A2 will be more successful in Chinese market. It is really a show guys.
So, what you're saying is: A FOR-PROFIT company in a CAPITALIST country is acting exactly how it should to maximise profit within the law? Shocking.
I find it weird that these people have no problem with companies bending them over to make as much money as they can but when individuals want to do anything they legally can to make money they're somehow considered to be scum.
Have you seen the health care system in America? Want to know what it's caused by? Companies seeking to maximize profits WITHIN LAW.
Its not the ethnic race but the personal hygiene and food.
Unfortunately the food that impact most for body odour is spice lovers.
One can tell in a hot summer crammed in a bus, train, gym or lift if you are a stinker.
I know because I am a curry lover lol.