Mechanic Wants Me to Pay for Part He Broke on My BMW E90 320d?

Lsimpletooth on 11/12/2018 - 23:19
Last edited 13/12/2018 - 10:30 by 1 other user

Update: picked up my car and examined the broken part. The plastic was indeed brittle but the fuel filter could have been changed without even touching the side that broke. Chalked it up to mechanic inexperience with the brand but I paid for the part anyway. Lesson learned, from now on I'll be doing all my own regular services.

Hi all, Just wondering how I should approach this?

Dropped my car off for a service today which included a fuel filter replacement. The fuel filter is also attached to a plastic fuel preheater and to connect the two together is pretty much push them back together. Easy as it gets.

Got a call from my mechanic that while he was fitting the new one, he broke the plastic on the preheater as it was brittle from age (8 years). This part is hard to source and will cost around $300. He wants me to pay for the part and he says he'll either charge me a reduced labour rate or won't charge me for extra labour.

I'm quite conflicted here. If the part truly was aged and brittle - if the preheater would break if I were doing the service myself then I'm happy to pay up, however how on earth he managed to break the plastic doing such a simple operation makes me feel that perhaps maybe he is liable for the damage?

Poll Options expired

  • 68
    I should pay for the part ($300)
  • 22
    Mechanic should pay for the part
  • 7
    Hard to say - both pay half?
Automotive BMW

Comments

              • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 14:29

                @[Deactivated]: Are you being deliberately obtuse? The part in question cannot be assessed until it is removed. When it is removed it is either broken or not. The only other option is to add $300 onto every 320d fuel filter replacement in case the heater breaks, so that people won't whinge about an "unexpected cost". Would that make you happier? Overpricing every job to cover the small percentage where it's an issue?

                • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 14:36

                  @brendanm: So it is a plastic part from a car known to have brittle plastic parts from a compartment where plastic parts become brittle the fastest… and it never occurred to the mechanic that the part may break.

                  It is hardly an unexpected costs then. It is running head strong into the probable knowing that you can upsell for an eventual breakage.

                  The only other option is to add $300 onto every 320d fuel filter replacement in case the heater breaks

                  Here is an obtuse idea. Just a wild one out of the ordinary. Give the customer a heads up for something you've repeatedly say is a common part that becomes brittle and breaks.

                  Also, negating risk doesn't involve charging the full amount. That's not how risk offset works. You charge for the likelihood, ie. 50% chance, then charge $150. In this case, you think it's 100% chance yet you don't think it necessary to inform the customer?

                  • brendanm on 13/12/2018 - 14:40

                    @[Deactivated]: It's not in the engine bay. Again, maybe do a bit of research before typing. It's nowhere near a 50% failure rate. If it was 15 years old it would probably be 50%, and then I would tell the customer. I'm not calling every customer at a 5-10% failure rate. I'd love to see you show me where I've written it's a 100% chance as you say. You'll find I've actually quoted 5%.

                    You do realise upselling is when something isn't needed don't you? If your fuel heater is old, and breaks, it's not upselling, it's called keeping your car running. Your first hurdle here is that you don't actually understand how any of this works, and seem to think this is some optional part. It's not, and the fuel filter replacement is not.

                    • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 14:48

                      @brendanm:

                      I'd love to see you show me where I've written it's a 100% chance as you say.

                      The only other option is to add $300 onto every 320d fuel filter replacement in case the heater breaks

                      Cost of part as per OP

                      This part is hard to source and will cost around $300.

                      What is $300 of $300. It's a 100%.

                      Ps. Engine bay, dragging on the road… whatever. You're trying to fixate on the irrelevant details that I'm not even looking at. Heck, I forgot what part we're talking about. I know it's plastic, you've mentioned numerous times it's brittle in a car that's known to be unreliable, and it cost $300… Also it breaks unpredictably… and often. And commonly.

                      • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 11:03

                        @[Deactivated]: That is 100% of the cost, not 100% chance of failure. I didn't say to charge the extra $300, just that you would quote every customer on the highest possible cost upfront. If are in the medical field I am honestly worried if you can't understand something that simple. You are fixated on making things up to fit your ridiculous narrative. If it was dragging on the road it probably wouldn't last very long at all would it, where it is changes the amount of heat it is subjected to. If it lived next to the turbo or exhaust manifold, I would recommend it be replaced every times the filter was replaced. What you class as semantics, is actually extremely important to the conversation, and whether the part had a high likelyhood of breaking. As you seem intent on sticking your head in the sand, you will not understand this.

                        • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 11:06

                          @brendanm: You don't seem to understand cost incurred as a proportion of the risk, and you're very liberal with your name calling and insults.

                          My only narrative is informed consent, a concept I think you'll never grasp.

                          Good luck.

                          • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 11:08

                            @[Deactivated]: Show me where I have called you names or insulted you? Informed consent is what you need to deal with when you are having surgery or similar, not when getting your fuel filter changed on your car. Things don't always cross over between industries.

                            • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 11:16
                              +1

                              @brendanm:

                              Are you being deliberately obtuse?

                              honestly worried if you can't understand something that simple.

                              Trying to dispell the inference that $300 is the full cost of $300 hence as a proportion of risk, that's 100%

                              This shows just how little you know about what you speak.

                              You were referring to me quoting the OP

                              I know your next response would be that "they're not insults" but I'd actually be obtuse to not understand a backhand. Anyway, I don't really care. I just think the conversation is becoming repetitive with the exception that it is becoming less civil.

                              I don't start my points off by telling you you're uneducated, obtuse, acute, ridiculous. I've stuck to one "narrative" - inform customers of potential costs.

                              • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 14:20
                                +1

                                @[Deactivated]: It's not an insult to say you don't know what you are talking about, when you literally don't know what you are talking about, it's simply a statement of fact. If you had in fact worked on this car, and understood the item in question, I would not make this statement. Asking if you are being obtuse is a question, as charging the cost of an item does not somehow magically mean that 100% of them fail, those two statements have literally zero correlation.

                                As I've said over and over and over, if it was very likely the part would break (eg 50% or so+), then you would obviously inform the customer before doing the work. I've done this many many times, every single time I work on an older BMW cooling system, the customer will be informed that there are other parts that will likely break, along with the piece that is broken. This part has probably a 5-10% at max likelyhood of breaking at this point in its life, therefore it is stupid to tell the customer about that something that is likely not to be an issue.

                                • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 15:04

                                  @brendanm: "Well, are you stupid? Because everything you've said is ridiculous. You must be bad at your job if you can't understand simple reason. If you've thought about the subject at any level of intelligence, you'd know you're wrong. That's a fact."

                                  I've made a template for your typical (non-offensive/condescending) response.

                                  It's also my response as a final response. It is also not offensive.

                        • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 11:26

                          @brendanm:

                          I didn't say to charge the extra $300, just that you would quote every customer on the highest possible cost upfront.

                          Not what you said. This is what you said.

                          The only other option is to add $300 onto every 320d fuel filter replacement in case the heater breaks

                          When you add 100% cost of part to a service incase something breaks, you're expecting the occurence to be 100%.

                          Do not claim it is meant to read as a post-hoc only cost increase because that's not how it is worded and that's already the current scenario where informed consent is ignored.

                          • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 14:21

                            @[Deactivated]: You keep parroting informed consent like it is something that applies in this scenario. The occurrence is not 100%, as I've stated many many times, buy you choose to ignore.

                            • [Deactivated] on 14/12/2018 - 14:46

                              @brendanm: So… no response to me pointing out your contradiction. Just more personal remarks about me "parroting and ignoring"?

                              Right. And talking about parroting…

                              The circumstances are unforseen, how could anyone possibly let the customer know about it?

                              "Unforseeable".

                              8 years is quite reasonable for a plastic part [to fail] subjected to constant heating/cooling cycles and that is constantly exposed to diesel. Had it been 3 years old my opinion would be very different.

                              BMW decided to do it. Using brittle plastics that break when you go to undo them…

                              So either this mechanic was going to break it… it's an old brittle plastic part

                              The part is old, it would have broken

                              And

                              I didn't say to charge the extra $300

                              Didn't say…

                              The only other option is to add $300 onto every 320d fuel filter replacement in case the heater breaks

                              Me thinks the customer's that didn't become repeat customers recognized poopoo when they hear poopoo

                              • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 20:16

                                @[Deactivated]: I'd written a reply to you, but have withdrawn it. Just read some of your posts on the encrypted apps thread, and I may have misjudged you. We have a difference of opinion here, but that's ok.

  • jason101 on 12/12/2018 - 07:15
    +3

    Is it this part? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-SERIES-E91-E90-320D-FUEL-HE… or https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-3-Series-E90-E90N-E91-E91N-E92-… as someone who is very good at accidentally breaking everything, this part looks easily breakable, the fuel line is probably thicker and harder than the actual plastic connector.

  • sovereign01 on 12/12/2018 - 08:32
    +5

    Lots of ozbargainers have a skewed view of European cars so take the "Euro plastics break after 8 years" with a grain of salt.

    IMHO any plastic part that is liable to break when just touched after 8 years should be well known to a mechanic that works on the brand. Brand specialists I've taken older cars to always know specific weak points of each model - If they don't, they're careless or they don't know the cars like they make out to.
    With that said, if you took it to the local generic mechanic it was a silly move and you're now paying for their education.

    • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 08:55
      -8

      Every part of any product is bound to break due to wear and tear or just sheer poor quality.

      If you go to a vase shop and break a vase because it fell on a "hard" floor. Would y ou say, "oh its your fault cos you don't have pillows on the floor to protect it in case it falls " ? lol

      • ThithLord on 12/12/2018 - 09:30
        +9

        Your analogies are absolutely terrible and non-equivocal.

        • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 09:31
          -1

          If you break something you pay for it or fix it. Better ?

          • ThithLord on 12/12/2018 - 09:33
            +3

            @Danstar: That's not an analogy, boiky.

            • Danstar on 12/12/2018 - 09:41
              -1

              @ThithLord: Didn't say it was, just making it simpler for you ;) :P

              • ThithLord on 12/12/2018 - 10:27

                @Danstar: This:

                If you break something you pay for it or fix it. Better ?

                in reply to this:

                Your analogies are absolutely terrible and non-equivocal.

                means you are correcting your first analogy with, in your mind, a better analogy. Unless you structure the English language differently how the rest of the world interprets it.

                (emphasis is mine, repeating what you said - better [anaology])

  • outlander on 12/12/2018 - 09:42
    +11

    The right judgement in this case entirely depends on the fragility of the part. Without knowing that, you can't make a correct decision. It all comes down to whether a reasonable, trained mechanic working with care would have broken it in the same situation.

    If reasonable force was used, and it broke = you pay
    If unreasonable force was used = he pays

    If it was reasonable force, and the part broke anyway, and you feel it shouldn't, then you have a problem with the manufactor. They did not adequately manufacturer the part to be robust enough to withstand the forces it could reasonably foreseen to have been exposed to over its lifetime.

    I will leave you with this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5MhzNjYiSo

  • serpserpserp on 12/12/2018 - 21:38
    +1

    I think Bikies is the only answer here. Could be cheaper than $300 too.

  • serpserpserp on 12/12/2018 - 21:39
    +1

    Also I need an MSPAINT of what the mechanic did to the part to fully understand the dynamics in play here.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 00:39

    Is the part actually worth $300 without labour?

  • tanksinatra on 13/12/2018 - 09:40
    +2

    I think you made the right choice to pay for the part. As has been discussed, plastic parts become brittle with temperature and age and have a fairly fixed lifespan. At some point they have to be replaced. Especially a preHEATer.
    Maybe this service. Maybe next service. At some point it will break.

    The problem here isn't necessarily the plastic, it's the price of the replacement part. BMW is ripping off mechanics and their customers. The part would only cost a few dollars to make.

    I'd complain to BMW.

  • picklewizard on 13/12/2018 - 10:18
    +1

    If the plastic was brittle enough to beak easily, the part is at the end of its serviceable life.

    Not the mechanic's fault you bought an old Euro. Don't buy old Euros.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 10:36

    8 years old and brittle plastic? Seems A bit too young for brittle plastic

    • tanksinatra on 13/12/2018 - 10:54
      +3

      Not in an engine bay :/

    • Charity on 13/12/2018 - 23:11

      Actually, it's like clockwork. All extended warranties should have now expired. This is precision German engineering - 21st century edition.

  • PJC on 13/12/2018 - 12:14
    -5

    I commiserate with OP, having experienced at Castle PJC a similar predicament repairing a Sedan chair. The floor features an oval brass plaque declaring "Made By The Good Hand of Josiah Benson in the Year of Our Lord 1731". Naturally, we took the vehicle to his great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandson. Imagine our consternation upon discovering this peasant had abandoned his family trade to become a roofer. Forsooth, he oafishly ordered us off "his" property, though his village was gifted to my ancestor the 2nd Duke by King George III. My footmen delivered him a swift courtesy lesson. Consequently this is being typed for me within my Bentley Flying Spur W12 S because it is more roadworthy.

  • DiscoJango on 13/12/2018 - 13:29
    -1

    I'm glad op felt the need to mention they drive (a shit base model) bmw

    • brendanm on 14/12/2018 - 14:23

      Op was actually asked what car it was, as it wasn't originally mentioned. Seems it has been edited after that.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/12/2018 - 21:46
    +1

    If the mechanic is competent and took due care and the part broke anyway, i'd pay for the part because it's not his fault the original part is rubbish.

    If the mechanic is a ham-fisted moron and forced the part and caused damage that wouldn't normally happen, I'd ask him to pay for it.

    So unless I had strong evidence he was a ham-fisted moron, I'd assume it wasn't his fault and I'd pay for the part.

  • jaackyy on 13/12/2018 - 22:10
    +1

    I can't believe the amount of people here saying the OP should pay for it…

    It doesn't matter if the part is ' old , brittle and likely to break ' … the OP was paying the qualified mechanic to change his fuel filter. the mechanic broke something. therefore mechanic should pay for it. The fact it's a 'easy to break' part is irrelevant isn't it? Because the whole point of OP taking it to a mechanic is that, they're qualified to do the job properly..?

    If you walk into a shop and break something on display, do you not pay for it??

    • p3nf0ld on 13/12/2018 - 23:22

      I can't believe the number of people who don't realize that cars get old. When you drive an 8+ year old car you have to appreciate that the plastics wear out. You can either spend loads of money replacing the plastics / buy a newer car / deal with the problems when the plastic fails. The OP has chosen to go with the latter. If you end up being too much trouble for the mechanics they simply won't service your car - your a customer and they are not a charity. Then it is up to you to deal with the problems - so you have to learn to do the jobs yourself. I own an 20 year old car and have learnt to do many of these jobs myself and had numerous parts that have had to be replaced simply for hitting their use-by date.

      • jaackyy on 13/12/2018 - 23:39

        it doesn't matter if the car is old or not…. if it wasn't broken before you drove into the workshop and they break it while it's in the workshop, they are liable. If it's something worth $300 that the workshop is not willing to compensate for.. then they shouldn't " Risk " breaking it.. especially if they know it's as 'common' as you say…

        If we're talking something small like, a hose clamp or clip, then sure, do what you want if it breaks, it's an easy replacement. If you know its an easily broken thing but you don't want to cover the cost of breaking it.. then isn't it common sense to just not do it if you're not confident in your skills to do the job????

        The logic that it's old and is likely to break is completely irrelevant.. you're being paid because you should be a qualified and skilled service centre. If I take my BMW to get serviced at a BMW Dealership and they break something, the dealership would no doubt replace it for me at no extra cost. Why would it be different here??

        It comes down to the simple question.
        Can you or can you not do the required standard/routine job of servicing the car without damaging anything? Yes or No? If Yes, Good, please continue. If No, then you have no business offering a service.

        I understand accidents happen, but if they happen, it's on you to cover it because YOU broke it. (Referring to the mechanic here, not you personally)

        • p3nf0ld on 14/12/2018 - 00:02

          Yes you are being paid because you are a qualified and skilled mechanic. Things break when they are old. I can guarantee that BMW would indeed charge you for part on an 8 year old BMW out of warranty - they might ring you first "the preheater is broken and needs replacing. You really need to fix this part otherwise we cannot guarantee the car will run effectively." Or something to that effect. They might even show you the part and say look how broken it is. I have had this happen and you have very little choice especially given most people having their car serviced by a dealer do not have much car knowledge. If your going to have an older car you need to find a mechanic that you trust otherwise you are going to be in for a lot of hurt - particularly a euro where parts can be expensive. You are paying for the mechanic to provide a service - what do you think happens when you are trying to track down a fault? A mechanic will often replace the cheapest parts first in an effort to solve the problem - you still have to pay for the parts and the time. Your ultimatum "can you or can you not do the required standard/routine job of servicing the car without damaging anything?" is ludicrous. No-one can guarantee on an 8 year old car that nothing can go wrong. So now you would be on your own with a car that no mechanic in their right mind would touch.

          • Danstar on 14/12/2018 - 08:11

            @p3nf0ld: Ok. What about vintage cars that are decades old ?

          • jaackyy on 14/12/2018 - 11:58
            +1

            @p3nf0ld: You're just changing the example to suit your argument now.

            You just said BMW would call you to tell you the preheater is broken. That is very much different from ' We broke your preheater whilst servicing the car'… If it's broken when customer takes the car in, then sure. But if the mechanics at BMW broke it, they are liable.

            I'm not saying the mechanic needs to guarantee nothing will go wrong.. I'm saying they need to guarantee THEY THEMSELVES won't BREAK anything that was NOT ALREADY broken before they took the car in.

            You seem to keep backing your argument by stating ' its 8 years old, its expected to break' but the fact is. It was not broken before and the mechanic broke it. So he pays.

            • p3nf0ld on 15/12/2018 - 01:21

              @jaackyy: NO I'M SAYING THAT BMW WOULD NOT TELL YOU THEY BROKE IT.

  • iwearpants on 14/12/2018 - 00:13
    +2

    A similar situation occurred to me.

    I took my car to NRMA Motorserve for my annual service.

    One of the items they identified requiring attention (on top of the normal checks) was a Brake Fluid Flush.

    I agreed to this extra item (amongst other things).

    When I came to pick up the car, I noticed the brakes were acting weird. There seems to be rubbing and stuttering when I depressed the brakes.

    I immediately notified the mechanic. At first he said it was normal, but then he did believe something was amiss.

    Because they were closing up, he told me to bring the car in the following day.

    I dropped my car in the following day then received a call during the day.

    They said that due to age, the Brake Booster is gone. And that I have to stump up for a replacement.

    I can't remember exactly, but I think it might have been $600 for a second-hand replacement.

    Remaining calm and without being too argumentative, I told them that when I dropped my car off with them, the car was fine.

    And after they worked on my car, for work that I didn't specifically ask for (that is, it was their suggestion), a part has failed.

    They can't expect me to pay for it.

    They hung up saying they will call me back.

    They called again, saying OK, maybe I should pay for part of the replacement.

    Again, I re-iterated what I said before. They finally gave up and said they will replace it free of charge for a second hand replacement.

    The difference between my situation and the OPs is that:
    * I did not specifically request the work
    * They did not identify there was a problem during the course of doing the work

    I was in a stronger position than the OPs.

    • syousef on 14/12/2018 - 10:12

      I have had a brake booster fail on me during normal braking. I felt it give (thankfully near home) and got it looked at immediately. It's entirely possible the part was on the verge of failing regardless of the brake fluid flush. And it is a part that can fail without warning so the fact that they didn't pick it up is not a strike against them. They wore the cost rather than argue with you.

      • iwearpants on 14/12/2018 - 12:12

        I agree that there are parts that can sometimes fail at any time.

        However, the part that failed happened to be related to work they are undertaking.

        And work that was not specifically requested by me. Additionally, it is work that I was about to pay extra for.

        For example, I would pay for the following instances:

        • They were testing the brakes and discovered the brake booster failed
        • I specifically requested a brake fluid flush and in undertaking the work, they discovered the booster failed

        Yes, they wore the cost rather than argue with me. Only because I have a strong case against them if I took it up with the complaints department.

        • syousef on 14/12/2018 - 13:22

          As I understand it, and I'm not a mechanic or expert, a brake booster would not normally fail due to a fluid flush unless it was on its last legs anyway. In the most extreme circumstance changing that booster may have prevented an accident. I don't think you had a strong case at all. But they would rather keep you as a customer and not spend hours arguing it with you. If you ever went back I bet your next service wasn't cheap.

          • iwearpants on 14/12/2018 - 13:28

            @syousef: I think only an expert would be qualified to say whether or not I have a strong case "at all". Thanks for your comment

            • syousef on 14/12/2018 - 13:30

              @iwearpants: Note that I was very clear that I was giving my opinion. I said:
              "I don't think you had a strong case at all."

              • iwearpants on 14/12/2018 - 13:37

                @syousef: I did notice you started with "I don't think". But then you ended with "at all".
                And I would expect someone who was an expert in the topic to make that statement.

  • hashtagbargain on 14/12/2018 - 09:52
    +1

    The mechanic should pay. Also should note that the actual cost of the part would be wayy cheaper than $300. I used to work at an automotive parts wholesaler and the average part had a markup of 3 times between wholesale cost and retail price. Depending on the mechanics relationship with the parts dealer, it could cost him as cheap as approx $100.

    The mechanic asking the customer to pay retail for something he knows he broke is downright dishonest, whether it is brittle or not. I’d say op gave in too easily.

  • HKS on 14/12/2018 - 10:01

    your fault for buying a euro car tbh. pay for the part yourself.

  • YoungQuan on 15/12/2018 - 09:20

    i used to have an e90 325i, great car to drive but in the end I was fixing something every month - air con fan motors, window regulators, transmission, bits of interior trim, bluetooth module part of the stereo, the list goes on and on…. loved the driving experience but in the end hated the ownership experience. Switched to Lexus IS350 F Sport and in 5 years of ownership have not had a single issue.

  • myusername on 15/12/2018 - 11:33

    it's pretty obvious you have to pay.

    even by the description of what broke it sounds like it was needing to be replaced anyway.

    i'm glad i'm not your mechanic.

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