(https://ibb.co/TRpNv0h)
(https://ibb.co/zr8n3Z1)
(https://ibb.co/vBFp1Zy)
(https://ibb.co/Yj33rdP)
Photos after removing wall socket
(https://ibb.co/XJKq87B)
(https://ibb.co/86FWdkF)
I never used my ceiling speakers since we bought our house. I now want to connect an AV receiver so that I can use them. I can't seem to get them working at all. What type of wires do I need to run from the AVR to the wall? Or am I missing something?
Cheers.
No not the same. Speakers directly connected to the AVR work fine, but I don't know how to connect the ceiling speakers through the wall.
We're probably going to need a drawing
and have you got a multimeter to trace power loss
From this photo https://ibb.co/zr8n3Z1, you have posted, it looks like they are banana plug ports on the wall.
You'll need something like https://www.ebay.com.au/i/323322618531?chn=ps
I would suggest that you go to your local A/V store (not JB or HN but an actual specialist) and show them the photos just to double check you are getting the correct thing.
Were there any instructions from the previous owner apart from the badly labelled wall port?
They are RCA plugs.
Yeah actually went to JBHF and the guy had no idea. If I can't sort it out soon will go to a speciality store.
The previous owner actually left detailed written instructions for pretty much everything….except this one!
To me it looks like the speakers are powered and already have their own amp. Those plugs on the wall look like RCA to me - if you have a regular 3.5mm headphone jack which splits to red and white rca audio, plug that in directly and see if it works.
Tried that first thing disnt work. I dont think they are powered but I could be wrong.
Sometimes installers do weird things, like terminating speaker wires into RCA female sockets like you have in your wall plate (https://ibb.co/zr8n3Z1).
What you need to do is unscrew the wall plate with the RCAs and see if you have speaker wire terminating into the RCAs (which I suspect is the case), or actual RCA cables, which would be weird - where would the power amp be then?
If there are speaker wires terminating into that plate, I would replace it with a proper speaker wallplate (for banana plugs, or gold post terminals).
Your amp looks to be a fairly basic 5.1 amp, so if you've already hooked up a 5.1 system to it then it doesn't reaslly have the capacity to run ceiling speakers. If the ceiling speakers are in the same room as the 5.1 speakers, consider upgrading to an atmos capable amp that can discretely power all your speakers. If the ceiling speakers are in another room, then maybe get a basic 2.0 amp to power them. Or again, a better amp with dual zone to power the 5.1 and ceiling speakers.
Thats what I got (https://ibb.co/XJKq87B)
(https://ibb.co/86FWdkF)
Yeah I bought this amp cheap just to see if I can get it working, I can then upgrade. The speakers are in 2 different areas and I really only want to run the ceiling speakers.
Wow, great wiring job there. Hope the same bloke didn't do any electrical wiring. Anyway, grab a multimeter and juuuuuuust check there's no current in any of those wires first before you do anything.
If not, then unscrew a couple of paired wires off the terminal block, unplug one of your other speakers and temporarily join it to the wires, test it with some output and see if it works. Should work this way.
Then get a fresh wallplate with proper speaker terminations and you can then power your ceiling speakers.
This way? Still no sound. Multimeter says I've got power.
Maybe I should just give up and call an installer lol
@BestofOZB: Have you hooked it up to SR (surround right)? Not a good one to connect to, I'd connect pos and neg of ONE of the paired wires coming out of the wall to pos and neg of ONE your front left or right speakers (FR or FL), make sure your amp is in stereo (and not 5.1) and give it another go. Don't give up mate, you're so close to being done!
@BestofOZB: Doesn’t make sense to terminate speaker wires to RCA. I’d be curious to know if they ever worked at all.
Either a standard rca to headphone plug will work and it’s a cheap as heck setup or they had it setup in a different way.
As @outlander says https://www.altronics.com.au/p/p0613-rca-plug-with-screw-ter… a couple of those might work. If you are near a jaycar go and grab a few bits and have a play.
Worst case you have to get a specialist to tidy it up for you. At least you’ve tried to diy
You get an RCA cable like this (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/connexia/connexia-x05439-4m-3-5mm-…) and chop the headphone bit off. Now you have two cords, each containing two wires. Strip the plastic back, and stick the two wires into the Red/Black twistie thing on the back of the kogan amp, and the other side into the wall socket, play some music and see if anything comes out. If it doesn't, you switch the wires over and try again.
Or if you want to do it the 'more proper' way, these are probably what you want https://www.altronics.com.au/p/p0613-rca-plug-with-screw-ter…
Yes each wire has 2 wires inside, now I have 4 wires all together. Do I connect the 2 wires inside each original wire together before connecting to the amp? (https://ibb.co/CmQwgB1)
No, each speaker has one cable, that cable will have one positive and one negative. Looks like you've already hooked up other speakers to the amp so you've already got the hang of it there.
No, they remain separate. One wallplug= one speaker= two wires= one wire going to the red connector on the amp, the other to the black below it.
In simple terms, the amplifier makes electricity, and sends it to the speaker. BUT, the amplifier recycles the electricity, so instead of one wire you need two for each speaker for it to work properly.It works by the amp sending electricity out of the red plugs, down the wire, into the speaker which makes the sound, then the electricity comes back out of the speaker, down the second wire, and back into the amp (this time through the black plug).
Very important: Don't let the two wires from the red and black touch. If you do, its kaboom. Always put some tape over them when your playing around, just in case they get knocked and accidentally brush against each other.
Edit: Probably more easier to represent as an image
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/24621/64534/untitled.p…
"more proper" way fixed it for me mate. Thanks heaps!!!
If you weren't getting overloaded now, I should probably add that you need a 5.1ch sound source to be able to take advantage of those speakers. What that usually means is, you have a DVD player, playing a DVD with surround sound available, and select the surround sound option in the menu. Then you have cords going from the DVD player to your amp. If you use RCA cables, which use 1 cable for each speaker, that would mean 5 cables (one for each of the 5.1 channel sound). Or you would use a single optical cable to carry all of it.
From the picture of your amp, you only have stereo connected. This means that even if you connect everything right, sound will still not come through the rear speakers. Some amps have a 'virtual surround sound' option though. If you turn that on, it will take the stereo sound input, and send it to all speakers. Its not real surround sound, but it will allow you to test the speakers.
Thanks guys, I have tried every possible solution you have suggested, still no luck, I am starting to believe the ceiling speakers aren't working. I will have to get a technician in to hopefully get it going, or look at the expensive option of replacing the ceiling speaker.
Your problem here is you don't know what works and what doesn't. Is the problem with the speaker? Or the amp? Is it the wiring in between? Is the amp set to the right input? Is it the DVD player?
At this stage, you just don't know. So if its not working, you should test each one. I don't suppose you have a good speaker you could hook up to the amp to verify it works? Even one from a bookcase radio system would be sufficient.
As for the speakers, there are ways to test that too. You can connect a phone to the speakers using that cord I linked above. It won't be loud, but if you play music on your phone and put your ear up to it you can at least check to see if sound is coming out of it.
You sure you tried setting it up like in the picture above? Try removing the black headphone jack from the amp, and switching the white and red plugs from AUX to DVD. Then try it again with the volume turned to 25
Make sure you turn the volume up on the rear speakers. If nothing, then plug your front speakers into the "surround" speaker connectors and see if you are getting sound out of them. Then if still nothing, check the connections.
(https://ibb.co/FgMhhMK)
(https://ibb.co/HVgZ9w9)
This worked! Thanks guys!!!
After palying and changing wires I also realised that 2 out of the 5 amp channels ain't working, which made testing harder before.
A little messy, but if it works it works!
Thanks for posting the resolution. Always nice for stories to have a happy ending. Or even just an ending.
It was all happy ending until the AVR started overheating lol, too much speaker power. AVR max speaker output is 45W (75 Subwoofer)
I pulled the speakers out and they are rated 200w 4ohms each, I have 4 in total! When I connect one line out of the AVR (eg FR) all speakers work, when I connect 2 lines out to RF and FL they are louder.
Now that I know everything works, I am thinking of getting a Sony AVR rated 165w eqch speaker, with wifi etc. Not sure if that will be enough.
Any ideas/recommendations?
Oh shit! That's intense.
I don't know a whole lot myself about that side of things. I mostly just know the theory behind it. But the Pioneer VSX series was the darling amp of ozbargain for a while. You might be able to snap one up cheap on ebay. Search for either the VSX 521, 522, 523, 524 etc as they are all revisions of the same model
In the end it comes down to what you want to spend. For a couple hundred you get something vastly superior to the standard TV sound, which is enough to make most people say WOW! Going more than that, and you're entering the hobby realm, where just like computers and bikes and whatever other money suckers there are out there, you just keep upgrading things for the sake of it. $200 or less is what I would be spending, preferrably much less than that on a second hand older unit. If you can afford more, spend it on a subwoofer, so you can feel the sound. That should set you back another $50-150. More than that… and you're reaching the point where you're looking at taking the ceiling speakers out and replacing them with ceiling mounted box speakers. By that stage you've come full circle and upgraded the very thing that drove you to look into it in the first place haha but thats how it goes with these things.
@outlander: Thanks mate you have been a great help. I am willing to spend up to $500-600 and get a decent one with wifi/bluetooth etc, my main concern at this stage is to make sure it will be powerful enough not to overheat again. I will have to make some more research about the wattage/ohms etc to make sure I am OK before I buy anything.
@BestofOZB: Okay. You're down the rabbit hole now my friend. $500 is just the start :D
One thing you should double check, are you sure those ceiling speakers are 200w? That sounds way too high. Post a pic if you've got one.
@outlander: (https://ibb.co/c2VtRz4)
Yeah it says Max power, now I learnt that is an inflation. I will have to do some research and hopefully get some good deals around Boxing day sale.
@BestofOZB: Yeah, thought that might be the case. Like anything else, marketting people got into speakers, and distorted actual values in order to make sales. What they did was this - during startup, for the first half a second that the amp is powered on for, power rushes into the circuit. For that briefest split second, the system consumes a much larger than normal amount of power. The marketting people thought that was a good number to go with.
So those speakers that are 200w "peak power" are more likely to be 40w RMS. RMS is the more accurate measurement that everyone uses.
Based on that, you need an amp that can handle 5x40w channels, or 200W in total.
Erm, "speaker power" isn't your problem. Speaker "ratings" describe general performance at a given power input, not what current (power) they will "draw" from an amplifier. For example, if you connect "200W" speakers to a 10W amplifier, nothing bad is going to happen. Just as if you put tyres rated to 300km/h on a prius that's doing 50km, nothing bad is going to happen.
If you've got an "overheating" problem then it's likely you've got an impedance or shorting issue, or an amp with an internal issue. Make sure you haven't accidentally wired your 4ohm speakers in parallel on one channel, causing a 2ohm load which your amp probably can't handle. Look up your amp specs to see what minimum impedance it recommends.
From what you're describing I suspect a dud/unreliable amp.
@slknv: Thanks for clarifying that, I am starting to undertsnad things as I go.
I have 4 speakers and all of them work when I connect them to even 1 channel, I dont have a choice there, the speakers are 4ohms each (https://ibb.co/c2VtRz4), does that mean total 16ohms? Is that how it works?
Yeah the amp I have is crap I only got it to start testing things before I buy a good expensive one, I am not too fussed about the quality of the music just want to make sure it will handle the speakers and not burn!
Onkyo have an A/B switch on the front receiver if you bump it the speakers wont work on the other letter chanell whether your is similar dunno