Adding a 2nd Storey to Home - Is it worth it? What does it cost?

GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:03
Last edited 29/11/2018 - 09:07

Hi all,

I am hoping OzBargain can tell me what considerations are involved in adding a 2nd storey to an existing double ("cavity"?) brick home, with an external wall area of 165 m2 (15 x 11 m), and a yard of about 600 m2 in SE QLD.

If possible, I would also like to ask if OzBargainers could please share their own experiences of doing this major renovation and what the cost was for what they got.

Also, if anyone has advice about whether it is something that typically makes money for that property, noting that the hypothetical house in question is probably the "ugly duckling" of the street, has high ceilings, is generally well kept and presents nicely at the -to remain- ground level, and when renovated/updated, will likely present quite well.

I understand that this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, but I generally get very conflicting and biased information from internet sources on renovations in general, and it seems that the average homeowner is not good at project managing their own major home upgrade, and are generally poor at pricing renos, getting quotes, and organising/managing tradespeople.
Also, it seems, all advice about renovations on the internet is either "im selling this so its the best option" or "I did this and it is the only way to do it" or "this was my experience and it was the most terrible experience of my life".

And yes, I see the irony of asking here, but more info is always better than less! Also, OzBargainers tend to be my kind of people; they are generally thrifty, almost always after a decent cost/benefit ratio, and this forum intersects a broad range of society.

Thanks in advance for any advice, general comments, links, and shared experiences you may give.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • geek001 on 29/11/2018 - 09:13
    +2

    I have a friend who did an extension to her existing home. The cost to add the extension was about $250k. The cost is not much less than a knock-down and rebuild but her home was under demolition control, so she couldn't do that and did the extension instead. Adding another storey seems like a major reno, you may want to see if it is worth to knock down and rebuild in your case.

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:16

      Thanks for the info and advice geek, my question about your comment would be whether the cost to rebuild with a full 2 storey home would come in under 250k, as I have not seen many builds of 2 storey new homes that would be as low as that. Perhaps I haven't seen many quotes, or accurate ones, but I thought the cost of a 2-storey new build would be something like 400k plus? Cheers!

      • geek001 on 29/11/2018 - 09:34
        +1

        $250k was the cost of the extension, I would imagine adding another storey in your case will have a different cost. My point was to investigate doing a reno vs knocking down and rebuild to help you make your decision. Also, depending on when the house was built, you may have the extra costs of dealing with asbestos material.

        Also, as altomic mentioned below, new homes generally have less durability compared to older homes. I would probably investigate doing an extension on the ground instead, rather than adding another storey.

        • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:46

          Sure thing, thanks. I have considered the option of a rebuild and I think it is cost-prohibitive with all the additional works to be done around it. I wont discount the idea, as I would not like to discard a potentially valid and better option, but I think the outlay to get to that point is probably pretty high, and would close in on the eventual resale of the property, reducing the profit margin if ever sold.

    • altomic on 29/11/2018 - 09:19
      +5

      Though quality and durability of new homes is quite poor. I. E. My parents double brick house was built in the 1930s and will outlast the house built next to them in 2014.

      • OzFrugie on 30/11/2018 - 00:05

        im wondering why new houses are less reliable? shouldn't new materials be better and new building techniques wouldve been improved?

        • Euphemistic on 30/11/2018 - 08:31

          Back in the good old days they would build stuff solid/strong as possible, the engineers wouldn’t be involved. Now it is all too common for engineers to specify minimums that the builders can build down to a price. Use the smallest cheapest thing that will do the job.

          The their thing is that all the old houses that weren’t built to Kat now don’t exist anymore, the ones built to last are still standing because … they are.

  • JimmyF on 29/11/2018 - 09:32
    +1

    I understand that this is a "how long is a piece of string" question,

    It really depends on what you want to add up there. bathrooms add more cost etc, you'll be up for a new roof over the entire house etc. So if you think it'll be sub $200k, then you're most likely out of luck.

    If $200-400k is in your budget, get some quotes.

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:48

      At this point it would most likely be: 3 or so bedrooms, internal stairs, a bathroom, and an open living space at one end, and a deck down the other. Although it is very early days in this concept.

      • HighAndDry on 29/11/2018 - 09:53
        +4

        That might push it even above the $400k mark then depending on design, materials, etc. Also - when/if you do get quotes, get those quotes and add about 10-15% on top.

      • JimmyF on 29/11/2018 - 11:21

        So its basically a new house you're building on top, minus the kitchen.

        So $300-500k give or take $100l.

  • try2bhelpful on 29/11/2018 - 09:48
    +2

    One thing to keep in mind is if you are going up a second storey is how are your foundations. When we did our second storey extension we had to underpin the existing building which added $20,000 to the cost of the renovation. If your foundations are shot it might be worth looking at a knockdown and start again. The other thing to consider is a basement room - gives you somewhere to retreat if hot.

    Second storey is great if you get a view or you have a smaller block. The best thing to do is sit down and work out what you want and what your block is like. Then either talk to an architect or get in the builders and work out what the difference in costs is associated with single and double storey. With double storey they might need a crane to lift the roof joists, etc.

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:54

      What kind of soil conditions did you encounter? Clay? Soft organic soil? groundwater?

      We are on the high side of the highest street in the suburb, so theoretically there is much to be gained. Although there aren't "city views" in any clear way, it would still be quite nice.

      • try2bhelpful on 29/11/2018 - 10:11
        +1

        We are a little bit clay, but nothing too extreme. The problem was this was a 1920s warehouse in the inner city and the original foundations were a bit shallow to support the second storey. It depends on how the original building was constructed and whether it will support the new weight. Builder should be able to tell you that.

  • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 09:51

    One question I have, if someone could please weigh in, is about the carrying capacity of double brick. Is it generally considered possible to build on top of double brick without major structural work needed? I know this is case-by-case basis and no one could say for certain, but it is a massive question that underpins everything else.

    • HighAndDry on 29/11/2018 - 10:32

      I mean, it does depend on existing structure. But it's certainly possible given the right structure and of course, that you're using a lighter, timberframe construction for the second storey.

  • olivecheese on 29/11/2018 - 10:01
    +11

    Here's a good price guide for you - https://www.32degreesbuilding.com.au/our-work/first-floor-ad…

    But really - The best way to get an answer to your question would be to go to a reputable local builder(or two or three) and discuss a design and construct job - standard master builders or HIA contract (NOT COST PLUS)
    It might feel like you're saving money being an owner builder - but I promise even if the builder came right out and told you the margin on your build you'd most likely think it was fair enough.. To be honest, even though I AM a construction project manager, if I'm working full time I'll probably still hire a builder to build my house - the $$ isn't worth the stress. Not to mention the relationships they have with sub-trades and council that will make everything run much more smoothly than you trying to navigate it yourself.

    Before you meet them, come up with the number that would give good ROI, so current property value + build cost < estimated property value with addition. Take along a rough floor plan of your existing place and note where the other houses are neighbouring you, how close to the boundary you are already, your property's zoning etc.
    With any luck they won't laugh you out of the place based on your figure but will be able to use their knowledge to guide you towards a cost effective solution.
    All of the above is commitment and cost free and a really easy first step. (if you're unsure on a good builder to contact - try calling the HIA or MBA, they are in the know about which builders are going through court etc or have been up to no good and can recommend a good fit for you)

    Good luck with it all!

    Credibility: I'm a graduate architect and construction project manager with experience in both commercial (500k-6M at this point) and residential(project homes and also high end architectural) - but this is my first ever comment on ozb so please don't crucify me!

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 10:20
      +1

      Crucify you? No chance, you're incredibly helpful. Thanks for your input there's some excellent stuff there and I'll check out your link.

      I agree that the stress of managing my own build would probably kill me in stress, so I don't think i'm all that interested to go that way.

      My reservations about having tradies use their mates for sub-trades are related to the fact that they're biased to use their pal instead of someone who is well priced and/or best for the job.

      Your info about the HIA and MBA is good advice I would say, and I'll keep it in mind going forward. thanks again

      • try2bhelpful on 29/11/2018 - 10:39
        +1

        +1 on MBA. That is where we normally go to look for builders. So far, knock on wood, we have had good ones.

  • one man clan on 29/11/2018 - 10:34
    +4

    Another issue to consider is whether you're overcapitalising on your block - if you need to spend 400k to improve it, you might be better off selling and buying a place that suits your needs a bit better.

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 10:47

      Agreed that this is a central consideration. I believe that having a keen grasp of what cost and effort is involved in the upgrade will inform this evaluation.

      • one man clan on 29/11/2018 - 11:18
        +1

        Fair enough.

        For context I did a reno about 18 months ago - internal only and didn't add a second story (knocked down quite a few walls though, and did kitchen + bathroom). All up that cost about 130k+.

        Another factor to consider is the life stress and inconvenience that a renovation entails - it's a long process, with unexpected costs and requires pretty constant vigilance to make sure builders are fulfilling their end.

        It was worth it for us and I love my new house. Our design worked out really well and the place looks great. But in this property market (Sydney) I think I'm breaking even on ROI.

  • roundnumbersonly on 29/11/2018 - 10:47

    Which suburb? land value? will you be asking the bank to finance it?

  • tanksinatra on 29/11/2018 - 11:48

    It's quite easy to do on a typical Queenslander as they are a lightweight construction on stilts and can be raised. But I would be reticent to do on a brick home unless you gain something really valuable (e.g. city views). Assuming your foundations would even cope with another storey, you'll probably end up gutting your existing house and needing a new roof. $$$. Think 300-500k.

    I'd do a knock-down and rebuild if you want a two storey home. Or buy one.

  • garetz on 29/11/2018 - 12:19

    What you should be considering is what will the value of the property be after the added level vs what it is today, cause if your sale price does not rise inline with the cost then it definitely is not worth doing.

    • GenghisGun on 29/11/2018 - 16:41

      Thanks, yeah that one is clearly a no brainer

      • garetz on 29/11/2018 - 17:24
        +1

        You might think that, but people get caught up in an idea, like adding another story, instead of rebuilding the whole house cause of a notion that it should be cheaper, then ends up costing more than the rebuild would of been.

  • slow on 29/11/2018 - 12:35
    +1

    I went through this a while back and the cost of knocking down and building was not much more than the cost of a double story extension, with a much better result.

    So be sure to include this option in your calculation

    For me the most basic double story was $250k (just a couple of bedrooms), going up to 500k+ for something decent

  • lainey13 on 29/11/2018 - 19:37

    Brother in law decided against a second storey and just did bathroom and kitchen. Now they are selling. Guess it just wasn't worth it… And they love making life hard for themselves so it must have been really painful!

  • Euphemistic on 30/11/2018 - 08:34
    +2

    Knock down rebuild - rent somewhere else to live while it’s done.
    Renovate - enjoy living in a construction site for months.

    Don’t do it on the cheap. In looking for houses to buy/live in we saw a few that were done quite poorly and they ended up with a small hot box on top of the house, not really conducive to a decent living.

    • GenghisGun on 04/12/2018 - 10:23

      Yeah, agreeing that if it's worth doing, you have to do it right and well. Home-job renos look tragic and often don't add the value people want them to.

      • Euphemistic on 04/12/2018 - 11:10
        +2

        It’s not just about poor construction either. Poor design is a big factor in creating something that is effectively a waste of money.

  • SlickMick on 30/11/2018 - 10:12
    +1

    I cannot imagine a scenario where such an extension would be money well spent.
    I also couldn't knock down an otherwise perfectly good house though. I'd move to a 2 storey house, or build on a vacant block.
    My wife always wanted us to add a 2nd storey, and I've always stuck to this argument.

    I have a friend who's life project is "doing up" his house. (It was a single storey built on a slope. He's dug out the underneath to make a granny flat, among other projects.) He's probably doubled the value of his property, but the cost would be equivalent of a house, or 2 if he paid for the labour. He's the one who told me how much more expensive it is to make changes rather than build from scratch.

  • StingyBritches on 30/11/2018 - 10:14
    +2

    We looked at adding a second storey on our single-brick house 20 years ago. In the end we opted for an extension. Why?

    1: Our block had (just) enough room to extend outwards
    2: Adding an upper floor was more expensive
    3: We would lose space on both storeys with a staircase
    4: Considering that we intended to stay in the same house indefinitely we decided single story would be better as we get older and my (multiple) health problems would not cope with the mechanics of climbing stairs.

    We've never regretted our extension even though naysayers (at the time) told us we would be better to invest the money and not overcapitalise. We've also seen - and continue to see - people who wait until they retire to build their 'dream' house and then after a few years find it is too big and either sell or downsize.
    We have enjoyed and used our extension from day one!

    • GenghisGun on 04/12/2018 - 10:22

      That's great! I am glad to hear you have exactly what you wanted and have it all planned out for the future. We don't have the space to go out, so it's up or rebuild, and looking at the economics, up is the best option for the location and style/cost.

  • HeWhoKnows on 30/11/2018 - 16:35

    Most people will tell you its a better option to extend if you are happy with your location.
    Consider if you sell then buy, you must pay agents commission on the sale and then stamp duty on the purchase. Plus legal fees on both. All up about 6-7% of the sale/purchase price. And its all wasted money.

    Like I say, its all about location and also any limitations on your extension.
    But at least you build to what you need that way.

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