Aunt Betty Misleading Cancellation Policy Terms - Advice Needed

freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 09:05

Hey all,
I recently made a booking through Auntbetty.com.au
When I read the terms for cancellation I was led to believe cancellation will incur a cancellation fee of $170 + supplier fees (these supplier fees are unknown throughout the booking process)
I need to cancel the tickets and Auntbetty are now claiming they are Non-Refundable, which I believe makes their booking terms misleading
How can a non-refundable ticket have a cancellation policy that is other than "non refundable"?

These are the terms as posted on their website and attached to my booking itinerary:

Our Change and Cancellation Fees:
Subject to your refund and remedy rights under the Australian Consumer Law, the following change and cancellation fees apply to all
bookings:
Changes to International bookings (excluding Trans-Tasman bookings) will incur a fee of $170 per passenger per booking in
addition to supplier fees.
Cancellations to International bookings (excluding Trans-Tasman bookings) will incur a fee of $170 per passenger per booking in
addition to supplier fees.

I checked another ticket booking website (expedia.com.au) and noticed they clearly state the tickets are non-refundable when you try to book the exact same flights. Auntbetty do not and it's hard to imagine it is done in good faith

What do you guys think? do you think I have a case with ACCC or even legal action?

Cheers

Travel

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Comments

  • 87percent on 10/11/2018 - 09:13
    -3

    Charge back via CC, assuming you paid for it via CC

    • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 09:23
      +1

      I did, with my ANZ Frequent Flyer Black if that helps. How do I charge back and what will it entail?

      • R-Man on 10/11/2018 - 16:54
        +1

        more info about chargeback here http://www.anz.com/australia/business/merchant/chargeback.as…

      • Flanders on 11/11/2018 - 23:14

        How do I charge back and what will it entail?

        You put a claim in with bank or credit card company etc. Then basically the other party (in this case Aunt Betty) has a chance to respond.
        You have to justify the chargeback (explain to bank why you are doing chargeback) .
        In case of paying for goods then not receiving goods, or being charged for something you never purchased, then it is fairly straightforward. In your instance, not so simple IMO.
        I haven't read all terms and conditions, and I am not a lawyer. Logically I would conclude that you have agreed to terms and conditions, when you made purchase from Aunt Betty, therefore if they have breached terms and conditions you agreed to, then fo chargeback. If they have not breached terms and conditions, they might, allow chargeback to go through uncontested, or the might, contest chargeback and show evidence to bank as to reasons why chargeback should not go through.
        I believe you have nothing to lose by attempting chargeback. Worst that could happen is bank declines it.

        • canyoudoitcheaper on 12/11/2018 - 07:41

          You have nothing to lose by attempting chargeback

          The bank will accuse you of fraud and cancel your accounts?

    • Chewiebacca on 12/11/2018 - 12:56

      No idea why this hasn't been negged to hell, OP changed his mind about a flight and you suggest charging back the payment, this is nothing but fraud.

  • Thrawn on 10/11/2018 - 09:28
    +5

    The supplier fees are "non-refundable". Its very common across airline tickets

    • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 09:29
      +1

      I now understand that , but the fact that Auntbetty hide it throughout the booking process is outrageous and misleading

    • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 00:42
      +3

      Ah yes the old ozbargain “it’s your fault you should have known even though there was no way of knowing”

      • lachhelix on 04/12/2018 - 08:38

        "Ah yes, when we said there were no monthly account fees, that was 'know' with a silent K, as in you may not know about the fees, until the fees are charged…. Your mistake"
        Still the best advert on TV

  • Zonty on 10/11/2018 - 09:43
    -1

    Try call air line find out what is your supplier fees if I want cancel booking. add up both with cancelations fees. If it's lower then what you paid then u can call consumer affair they will get you back different. Good luck.

    • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 09:50

      It's a non refundable ticket by the airline's policy. it wasn't stated anywhere on Auntbetty when I made the booking. Thanks

      • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:05
        +14

        Nothing is refundable by default. How do people still not understand how buying stuff works?

      • whooah1979 on 10/11/2018 - 11:38
        +9

        A change of mind policy isn’t required under acl.

        https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

        Services you can’t cancel

        You must pay for services you’ve received under a service contract that worked as expected.

        You can’t cancel a service contract or get a refund if the problem was outside the control of the provider or if you:

        changed your mind
        insisted on having a service provided in a particular way, against the provider’s advice
        failed to clearly explain your needs to the provider.

        • ChickenTalon on 12/11/2018 - 10:13

          But truthful advertising is under the ACL. If the tickets are non-refundable they should say so clearly.

          • [Deactivated] on 12/11/2018 - 18:35

            @ChickenTalon: Also penalties are not allowed, any cancellation fee should reflect their actual loss.

  • Hargen on 10/11/2018 - 09:57
    +5

    I think you need to read it this way.

    The travel agent will charge you $170 fee to process a change request, plus any fees the airline will charge. However the caveat is on the assumption that the condition of the ticket will allow change in the first place.

    when you book the ticket there should be condition of the ticket (i.e. the airline T&C) plus the condition of the travel agent. What you have pulled out is the condition of the travel agent/. During the booking process was the condition of the ticket itself displayed at all or via a link? If so then you have a uphill battle to fight.

    • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 09:59
      -5

      It wasn't, there is absolutely no indication that the ticket is non refundable.

      • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:02
        -6

        Purchases are non refundable by default.

        • Chewiebacca on 12/11/2018 - 10:01
          -1

          No idea why you are being negged, when you are absolutely right.

          Any 'change of mind' returns you get anywhere are in addition to your consumer rights.

          Quoting Consumer Affairs:

          Under the Australian Consumer Law, the customer is only entitled to a refund or replacement for a major problem with a product covered by consumer guarantees.

          If a store does not have a change of mind policy, the customer is only entitled to a refund or replacement for a major problem with a product covered by consumer guarantees.

          Charging back from your CC would be illegal, if they were to be offering you anything it would be out of goodwill.

  • exc3113nce on 10/11/2018 - 10:06
    +7

    Hey you need to check the entire terms. You have copied the "our change and cancellation fees" which is their fees in addition to the supplier fees.

    Below that there is a section about supplier change and cancellation fees - which says "can be up to 100% of the cost of the booking".

    It then states below under travel documents that: airline tickets, hotel voucher, other docs etc… may be subject to certain conditions or restrictions including relevantly being non-refundable etc…

      • exc3113nce on 10/11/2018 - 10:13
        +4

        When you booked did you have to click an "I agree" or some other acceptance to the booking terms? Because if you did then it clearly says in the first line: Please read the following terms and conditions carefully. You must not make any booking unless you understand and agree with the following terms and conditions.

        Yes arguably it could be clearer, but in the future if you're not entirely sure then you can always make an enquiry with Aunt Betty into the refunds before you agree.

          • exc3113nce on 10/11/2018 - 10:20
            +1

            @freshofftheplane: RE: cancellation fee -
            Businesses are able to charge you a reasonable cancellation fee to cover any loss likely to be suffered by the business.

          • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:20
            +4

            @freshofftheplane: You're only misled due to factors to do with you. Normal people don't expect everything to be refundable.

            • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 11:21
              -7

              @HighAndDry: That could be true, I am not accustomed to the Australian consumer affair protections (or lack off)
              It seems that as a consumer you don't really mind that this is the case?

              • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:24
                +4

                @freshofftheplane: What? Purchases not being refundable isn't a consumer protection issue. It only needs you to make up your mind before buying, which is something I'm capable of, so no, I don't mind.

                • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 11:24
                  -5

                  @HighAndDry: I take you've never returned anything you've purchased, or expect to return/cancel anything?

                  • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:26
                    +4

                    @freshofftheplane: Unless it's broken or I know it's refundable, no. I can ask, but if it was my stupidity at fault for buying the wrong thing, I'm not going to blame someone else for it. I certainly don't expect to be able to refund anything unless it says it's refundable.

              • Ughhh on 10/11/2018 - 11:27
                +7

                @freshofftheplane: A bit selfish and entitled to only think about your self as a consumer. Business' have rights too. Laws and rules are supposed to be fair. If a business' offers a relaxed change of mind policy, that's them being generous, shouldn't be an expectation.

      • Butt Scratcher on 10/11/2018 - 21:53
        +1

        Rofl, if you are that confident that you can just pick and choose parts of the terms that is convenient to you, then take it to ncat or whatever your states equivalent of that is.

        It can be more because auntbetty isnt an airliner, they bulk buy tickets so that it is cheaper. Obviously in the process they are taking risks in doing this.

  • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:03
    +3

    Nothing there says they have to give you a refund, only that if you're able to cancel - because the ticket says you can or they agree to let you, that those fees would apply.

    Purchases aren't refundable by default - when you buy something, it's final.

  • chumlee on 10/11/2018 - 11:06
    +11

    Another day another pointless rant

  • Hargen on 10/11/2018 - 11:18
    +1

    The travel agent doesn't issue the ticket, the airline does. They provide a service of booking and changing the ticket for you and charge a fee for that.

    Think of it like this. If the airfare is cheap, chances that it is very restrictive and in most cases would be non-refundable.

    • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 11:20
      -1

      I already know all of that.

      a. it wasn't that cheap
      b. other websites clearly state the airline's change/cancellation policy for the tickets you're purchasing
      c. auntbetty are hiding that information

      • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:21
        +5

        It shouldn't need to be said that purchases aren't refundable. Anyone of even remotely average intelligence already knows this.

        • freshofftheplane on 10/11/2018 - 11:23

          That's just not true. All flight tickets have a change/cancellation policy and these are clearly stated when you purchase them. it's just not the case for Auntbetty.

          • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:25
            +2

            @freshofftheplane: If the ticket is refundable to begin with. Nothing is refundable by default.

          • Hargen on 10/11/2018 - 11:31

            @freshofftheplane: One thing that the travel industry is good at is twisting word. Some of the airline don't call it non-refundable, but cancellation cost is 100% of the fares paid. So in this instance Aunty Betty is not wrong, the fare is definitely cancellable, but it will cost you 100% of the fares plus their service fee. Would you do that from an economical sense, probably not.

            • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:55
              +2

              @Hargen: There's no word twisting here. The ticket never said it was refundable - that's something that only exists in OP's imagination.

  • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:28
    +5

    Honestly OP - when you buy stuff, do you expect to be able to refund it all by default? How long have you been spending your own money?

    • Hargen on 10/11/2018 - 11:33
      +1

      that is not true, some of the airfare explicitly states its changeable and refundable, but they are usually 3x the normal sale fare.

      • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 11:37

        FFS if it's explicitly stated, it's not "by default" anymore is it. Let's not confuse OP anymore, they need all the help they can get

        • redfox1200 on 10/11/2018 - 12:06
          +2

          Hargen is saying that it's explicitly stated when its CHANGEABLE AND REFUNDABLE, by default it's NON REFUNDABLE. i.e if its not stated that its refundable then by default it's not refundable

          • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 12:40

            @redfox1200: But he also said "that's not true"…?

            • redfox1200 on 10/11/2018 - 12:51

              @HighAndDry: "when you buy stuff, do you expect to be able to refund it all by default?" - that is not true, as in no i do not expect it all to be refundable

              • HighAndDry on 10/11/2018 - 12:54
                -1

                @redfox1200: I.. uh… yeah that was the intended answer to what was a rhetorical question. But all good, pretty sure we're in agreement.

  • Hargen on 10/11/2018 - 13:14
    +4

    Coming back to op's option, did you buy travel insurance and was the reason why you need to cancel covered in the insurance policy?

  • Donaldhump on 10/11/2018 - 13:30
    +3

    The airline must refund any airport taxes if that helps

  • JimmyF on 10/11/2018 - 13:40
    +4

    I was led to believe cancellation will incur a cancellation fee of $170 + supplier fees

    Policy is correct, in your case the supplier fee is 100% of the cost.

  • AlanJ on 10/11/2018 - 21:08
    +1

    I think the OP has a right to feel that he has been misled by Aunt Betty's wording, since by his own admission the term "supplier fees" was never explained through the booking process, and no indication was given of the amount that this might involve; if the ticket was non-refundable (i.e. if the "supplier fee" was 100% of the total cost), then it might be expected that a REPUTABLE travel booking service (are Flight Centre actually "agents", which is the term everybody above seems to be using to describe them?) might have taken pains to make that clear. However, that doesn't mean that they are obliged to give you a full refund minus that $170 fee! As "suss" as their wording is (and I agree with the OP about Aunt Betty's "good faith"), they still did come out and tell you there WOULD be a "supplier's fee", and it is even possible that the words "non-refundable" might have actually come up somewhere in that long and involved booking process with all the special terms and conditions. The interesting point now is whether Aunt Betty is going to send you a bill for $170 for its services, even though you've virtually thrown the ticket away! If this is, indeed, the case… that you end up being asked to pay MORE than the full cost of the ticket…. then that's something I'm sure we'd all like to know, because the obvious lesson from that would be to NEVER, under any circumstances, cancel a ticket: just accidentally miss the flight! I think you will, realistically, have to forget about any kind of refund and, instead, see what Aunt Betty is going to do about that $170! If they are a decent and reputable company, they should at least agree to waive that… no customer should be penalised more than 100% of what they've paid… and if they were, why would anyone use Aunt Betty (or similar?)

  • happirt on 11/11/2018 - 00:41
    +1

    pay up sunshine, you have no chance with your mildly humorous accusations.

  • Lunarboogie on 11/11/2018 - 07:14

    Can you explain why you've cancelled the flight? (not suggesting it will change anything - you've basically got no chance - just curious).

  • Magnastar on 11/11/2018 - 10:38
    +3

    Another quality millennial not understanding something properly then blaming everyone else when it doesn't work out.

  • xuqi on 11/11/2018 - 21:02
    +2

    'freshofftheboat' would be a more suitable handle…

    Read the ANZ link below before you go trying to charge-back anything, as change of mind isn't listed:

    http://www.anz.com/australia/business/merchant/ChargebackTop…

    • yeahyeah on 11/11/2018 - 21:06

      That just lists the top 10 reasons for charge back. That being said, change of mind wouldn't be a valid chargeback reason.

  • Omitsukasa on 11/11/2018 - 22:14

    I'm curious where OP is from. Is it the US? I often see comments on other (more global) forum boards by US residents about purchasing many different sizes of one clothing and only keeping one that fits and returning the rest for free. I was in awe. It's like a postal changing room.

  • TRAVELO on 12/11/2018 - 09:38

    You are also entitled to any airport and passenger taxes if a ticket is cancelled/refunded.

  • morebunnings on 12/11/2018 - 10:20

    If you booked flights, then the supplier fee is the cost of the flights, so technically it is valid, as they could argue that you could have looked up the airlines fees.

    If you think you will use the flights in the future, you may be able to change the flights to a future date for just the service fee (this can be done multiple times, for a fee each time), as airlines will sometimes allow the changing of flights but not cancellation of flights. You just have to think if it is worth the extra $$ to change the flights.

    Aunt Betty is a Flight Center brand btw. I wont say anything bad about Flight Center & their service/tactics as I work in the travel industry, but googling 'Flight center reviews' doesn't paint a pretty picture.

    • Toons on 12/11/2018 - 18:52

      LOL really I was talking to one of the flight centre staff, they can hold a flight longer than others while you make up your mind (prior to paying) I was having trouble booking a particular flight more so getting us all on the same one, which they managed to get the flight and do price matching.

      When she was going through the list she said I need to watch out for sites like aunt Betty's as they are highly unreliable, They don't have access to the global booking system so they aren't even a middle man, middle man for the middle man. which is why so many get cancelled unlike say Expedia who actually process through GDS the instant you book.

  • AlanJ on 20/11/2018 - 12:41

    Has the issue been put to bed? Did you (a) get some of your money refunded? (b) Get nothing back, but Aunt Betty decided that was the end of the matter? (c) Lose your 100% and also get a bill from Aunt Betty for its service fees? I think many people would like to know how these travel wholesalers (I don't think they're "agents" in the sense we normally use the term, are they?)treat a cancellation which involves both airline and "agent" penalties.

    • freshofftheplane on 27/11/2018 - 19:21

      (b) would be right :(
      they called me up and started reading their policy on the phone.. I lost interest after a minute or two, told them they're not operating in good faith by not showing the actual cancellation fees (or non-refundable policy) at time of ordering. the guy agreed it's not a technical limitation which basically proved my point, and that's about it.

      I think Australians should know there's a lot left to be desired with their buyers protection laws. I know for a fact that their policy would be unlawful and fall under consumer misleading in some countries.

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