The topic defines it all. Let the comments take care of rest.
What do you think of Virgin Australia's new policy on veterans?
Laerom on 06/11/2018 - 09:52
Poll Options
- 287I do not like the idea
- 68I do not care
- 28It is embarrassing
- 14It is the right thing
- 13It is a good idea in principle
Related Stores
Comments
- 1
- 2
Why do they need to announce this at all. Most Australians honour our military people, particularly the fallen, on ANZAC day and Rememberance day. This is an empty tokenistic gesture where a lot of people are going to go WTF. Give them proper Government support, not platitudes.
@try2bhelpful: Nah yeah, I don't disagree… But the media is portraying it as if they'll be put on the spot and publicly identified which I don't believe is true.
@[Deactivated]: Yeah, I don't think they will be calling them out by name; it is wrong if the media is giving that impression. I've been to the US a few times and, although I support the military and have a nephew in the Navy, I find their fetishism of the military a bit off; especially as it seems to be smokescreen for actually providing real support for their service personnel. The Australian Government is trying to bring in a scheme that costs them very little and looks like they are providing a lot. The brunt of the issues that returned service people have is borne by the families - give them the support to deal with it.
Personally I would like to see a lot more done for the people who bear the brunt of society's problems like hospital personnel, social workers, ambulance drivers, etc. Went to a hospital emergency recently and the crazies were out in full - the staff were amazing with how they dealt with them and there must be an ever present danger you get the one that goes fully ballistic.
I think this all came out of ScMos whole Veteran discount thing. He wants discounts for veterans and they get a lapel pin. Sort of like the lapel pin he got for his politicians. Look at American politicians with their lapel pins.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/veterans-to-save-with-new-discou…
Australia is not a jingoistic nation, as a general rule. We treat this sort of thing with suspicion, which is what ScoMo is about to learn. I agree with others that there are other service personnel, like doctors, nurses, firefighters, paramedics, social workers, etc that do sterling service in difficult conditions that also need recognition.
I recently went to Canberra and visited the war memorial. This is an amazing place and the tone was just right. No celebration of war, it is a place to reflect on the sacrifices made by ordinary people. The last post ceremony was particularly moving. It does not need money thrown at it that could be better spent on improvements to support services.
Instead of a discount card for veterans, recognise all service personnel. Pay them what they are worth, provide them with proper support when they are mentally or physically injured. Stop making them “charity” cases on the whim of retailers who decide whether to support the initiative.
What I really don’t want to see is a backlash against the veterans due to half arsed ideas.
We don't have that bad history with the Vietnam war when people spat on soldiers on their return. I think the Americans want to show respect for their troops as a reaction to this bad treatment in the past. It's a good thing to do, but people just don't feel the need to do it here.
Americans were doing this jingoism long before the Vietnam war. The real tragedy of the Vietnam war was the damage it did to the Veterens and how little practical support they received from the Governments they served. Too many veterens, particularly in America, ended up homeless and not provided with the health services they needed, for both physical and mental issues. I think spitting on soldiers was wrong but the war was fought for the wrong reasons. America has this jingoism but they still elected a draft dodging President who denigrated POWs.
I think it's a bit of an odd thing to do. There are better ways to do it as well.
I also think there are groups more deserving of our thanks. Ambulance crews for example.Ha ha ha….
Anyone that are part of the following groups will now board the plane before other passengers.
LIST
Ambulance crew
Doctors
Butchers
Teachers
Uber Drivers
Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN)
Massage Therapist.
Medical Assistant.
Registered Nurse.
Physical Therapist Assistant.
Dental Assistant.
Dental Hygienist.
Dietitian or Nutritionist.I didn't say we should be letting them board first. Just that if anyone deserves thanks I'd pick them before veterans.
Don't forget Bikies…
What a great idea about time we as Australians supported our veterens good one virgin Australia. Qantas where are you once again more interested in the gay and lesbion community issues instead of our veterens who gave their lives for an ungrateful country who does not care a hoot.
The Americans are full of it re their supposed reverence for service men and women. First they pay them sh1t. Loads of them on food stamps. Then they scrimp on the treatment of their injuries- eg Veterans Health Administration scandals. But hey, strike up the band, hip hip hooray- you can do that on the cheap.
This a very valid point, when I first deployed we were forbidden discussing our alowances with the Americans. I found out eventually they were on $1.25 a day and that they had to pay for their rations & ration packs, which from memory was $30 a day.
I think the $1.25 is what they brought in after their taxes and other deductions.
I am really taken aback by some of the negativity or trivilisation of veterans and what they have gone through or done for our country. Now i am not a vet or have anyone in the family who is one, we are migrants who came here about 30 years ago but i have friends who had fathers in the vietnam war and grand fathers in ww2 and how messed up they were once they came back from the wars and how it affected their families and extended families opened up my eyes to how stressful and severe the experience must be.
Saying that i dont agree with all the politics around some of the wars and i am sure there are 2 sides but at the same time especially in the past there has been need for defence especially WW2…. The world would be a different place if Axis had won.
Completely agree. We give them a sports carnival now, so get over it.
Let's not forget all the lovely opiates too, not all of which were stolen from Afghanistan.
First define what a 'veteran' is.
Plenty of ADF personnel have never been to an active warzone (me included, ex-Navy), so will this apply to me?
This is a load garbage quite frankly. Australia is not the 51st state of the USA. We are too small to start wars and only obediently follow the USA when they do. Not needed at all.
This is all a PR stunt by Virgin Australia which seems to have worked spectacularly.
Congratulations mate, you’re now a veteran. You’re now deemed a veteran from day one.
A 'veteran' is defined as a person who has rendered 'eligible war service'.
You are missing the point.
If you have not been deployed to an active war zone, then you are not a veteran.
I think if you are an active member, in uniform then yes, board 1st
Interesting - I suspect most active member personnel don't wear the uniform when travelling on planes.
https://www.army.gov.au/sites/g/files/net1846/f/chapter2-wea…
In fact
"Travel on public or commercial transport outside Australia
2.22 When posted or visiting overseas, a member travelling on duty is to wear
civilian clothing, IAW para 2.19 (b), unless otherwise authorised."Just going on what I saw in the US. A lot of active members travelling in uniform.
Yep. Travelling in uniform, if travelling on duty, used to be compulsory. But it made them a target of 'nutters' whose freedom and way of life the services are defending.
Unfortunately there are nutters who hold the service person responsible for the policy of the Government of the day; unfortunately many people on the "front lines" of government policy cop the flak, e.g. Centrelink counter people, social workers etc.
I really can't see a plane full of Australian's applauding a few service personnel; which would just be awkward for the people involved. Anzac day and Rememberance are the proper days to honour our service personnel and, from what I've seen, this aligns with the view of the relevant service organisations as well. It sounds like neither the Government, nor Virgin, consulted properly before making them a political football.
As I have indicated before, we do not want to do anything that reflects negatively on Service Personnel - current or past - when they are not the instigators.
This became a Newscorp/ScoMo exercise in taking the electorate's temperature.
The rest of the world might have gone full-retard politically, but we've already rejected our GW Bush wannabe (Abbott). Public sentiment and their internal voting allowed ScoMo to "chuck a Bradbury" at the expense of the other nutter, Mr. Potato Man. Who, by the way, holds his seat by the slimmest of margins.
Both dead men walking, politically speaking. By 2019, I foresee Dutton on 2GB and ScoMo back in advertising where his half-baked gimmickry and sloganeering might at least make one party happy — the client.
The advantage of compulsory voting - if you are forced to the ballot box you tend to make a considered vote. We still have our crazies, but they do tend to drift to the fringes and mainly affect the senate.
This whole exercise smacks of someone who has been in advertising, doesn't it? Lots of noise and not much substance.
+++ !!!
The use of gambling vernacular is appalling. It's like he's playing to what was sort-of popular five years ago.
I must watch less news.
I thought the goal was to get to the chopper?
I would like to hear some veteran's takes on it before forming an opinion.
I agree, and this is the most sensible reaction.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/05/virgi…
I don't understand why Virgin didn't consult with the Veteran's groups before coming up with a policy like this.
Kinda odd policy to implement.
Nothing in the news about veterans lately beside this
More so that Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts is currently in court battle vs Fairfax on the latter defaming him, accusing Roberts of bullying subordinate squadmembers and going Rambo on Afghans getting in the way, that Roberts had an affair and assaulted his mistress during an event.
Marketing must've looked at calendar and saw 'oh Remembrance Day coming soon' how about a marketing plan for veterans?
on the latter defaming him
That has yet to be proven in said court.
It's a silly idea.
Just a note on your poll: the options aren't mutually exclusive (e.g. you could not like the idea AND think it's embarrassing but must choose one). You should ensure the response options are mutually exclusive (options don't overlap) and collectively exhaustive (covers all possible options). Odin have mercy on your soul.
Asking a forum like OzBargain on Au veterans is always going to bring out the ugly. There's some dude on here saying that by giving a veteran a benefit it's fascism. I'm going to put aside the sake of the policy here and just talk about veterans in general because this is what the thread is coming to.
I can see why some people disassociate with Au veterans or The ADF. 49% of Australians are either migrants or have at least one parent who was not born in Australia, meaning they might have connection directly to a Australian vet.
Personally I think we're the luckiest country in the world, it's why you're here. If you didn't decide to live here, than your parents made that decision for you based on their experiences from where they came from. People have had to make huge sacrifices in order for you to live in the country you have today, and a lot of them came back a completely different because of it. Anyone on here talking trash about the individuals who served in this country is strongly misplaced. If this was 70 years ago and Japan was knocking on the door of Australia, would you not pick up arms?
So, by your logic, let's shower freebies and eternal veneration on WW1 and WW2 vets.
Okay then. But everything after WW2 doesn't count.Korea? Nah, that was a police action wasn't it? It was a war of diametrically opposed political ideologies.
Vietnam? They never threatened our shores. That was America picking on a wee-ickle country (and getting their arses whipped).
Afghanistan? What did they do again? What was the reason for that one? Most are clueless.
Iraq? Wasn't that live-fire training? That was a doozie wannit?Nah, if you weren't drafted, you should get nothing. The taxpayer has already clothed, fed, armed, transported and therapised you for the geopolitical antics of the crooks in power.
If anyone feels hard-done by? Tough.Yep, Ignoratio elenchi
No, I'm dead-on point.
You alluded to the post-war migration intake. I agreed that we should hold the early 20th century sacrifices in high regard.
Where your argument is somewhat irrelevant in this topic, is that all WW1 vets are deceased and there are very few WW2 vets around.
Of those that survive, I'm betting very few use air travel (this topic).
Virgin have had a lot of criticsm and so a rethink:
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/virgin-austral…FFS - IMO all this veteran stuff is just so over the mark.
They do/did a job - the risks and the rewards they were very well aware of before they took employment. The ones who were forced into it, well, tough titties.It's not like they are paramedics, who signed up to help people but keep getting punched on job - a risk they probably weren't aware of or even expect. They are the ones who deserve a salute in my opinion.
It’s very sad to see how little most OzBargainers think of veterans. None of this impacts those of us who have never served… so why does everyone care? Get over it.
I think a great deal of Veterans; which is why I want them to get meaningful benefits rather than "feel good" gestures. It is beecause we care that we are so incensed. Get over the spin and look for the substance.
Dumbest schit I've ever heard. Veterans need more money spent on post-service services not money in their pocket. All legit pensioners struggle, tax big business more and put it towards the social net, especilly mental health.
Never served but take my hat off to those that do, something I couldn’t do. Also hats off to police, ambo’s and fireys, you guys all rock.
This, however, is strange right wing liberal party nonsense. Are the libs just on 100% self distrust mode?
When you think about the fact they have an advertising guy in charge, it makes a lot more sense about their motivation.
I echo most peoples opinion, veterans need better benefits in terms of income, healthcare (physical and mental) support. Being able to board a few minutes early isn't going to solve anything other than to make you look a bit disconnected from real issues.
I think I'd be just kinda embarrassed if I were singled out on a commercial flight for being a vet (whilst I have served in the ADF I don't consider myself a vet fwiw).
If I meet someone who was or is in the service I happily extend my gratitude and thank them for their service, often with a hand shake if appropriate. If its ANZAC day and we're at a pub I offer them a drink. If I'm overseas (US/UK etc) its much the same. Respect is often very different to 'special treatment'.Can't agree more with some of the comments re services for our vets, particularly those who have suffered injury or trauma.
So veterans that served in world war 2 does not deserve some extra perks when flying?
If it wasn't for them, we would most probably speak a different language than English today…
Also, it is very easy in hindsight to blame military personnel that participated in a war.
I think the poll is missing the option:
"I have no idea what you're taking about".I agree with you.
Another thing, some people say that the vets should wear the uniform to get the perk of getting onto flights first.
So if someone is a vet from world war 2 they should wear that uniform???
An anecdote re Americans and Aussies…
About 10 years ago I went to Japan for, believe it or not, a NASCAR race, on the Motegi oval. It was an end-of season race, about this time of year, and most of the teams were staying in a town called Utsunomiya, about an hour away by bus. So the teams went back and forth every morning and every night.
On one night trip back, about 40 of us were on the bus, about two-thirds Americans and one-third Aussies. There was a microphone on the bus, and one of the Americans turned it on and started talking.
"Hey, can I get a woo-hoo from all the Americans?" he asked.
And the yanks went, "WOO-HOO!"
Then, "Can I get a woo-hoo from the Aussies?"
…
There was a second of silence and then, from the back of the bus came a lone, Australian voice.
"Nah, we don't really do that, mate."
I thought of that night when this ridiculous idea came up.
Maybe, if nurses and teachers were included, there might be some merit in this.
But otherwise, I agree with the bloke in the bus…Haha this is gold.
Personally my response would be "(profanity)" but it does sum things up. However, if he had said "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie" I bet he would've got an "Oi Oi Oi" back. They edited out my word, but it did start with a "w".
And to those here who are denigrating our veterans, particularly today on Armistice Day, 100 years since WWI ended, you should hang your heads……in shame!!
Most of the posters here are very much on the Veterans side. I went to the Canberra war memorial, a couple of weeks ago, and wept during the "last post" ceremony. I would reccomend that people should visit these places and contemplate the sacrifice of the ordinary soldier - whether you condemn the hierarchy that sent them, or not.
Lest we forget
Good idea show some respect for our veterans. Yesterday I observed people at 11. am not bothering to stop and pay our respects for 1
Minute to busy just shows what this country is coming to I am ashamed to be called an Australian.We were in Melbourne yesterday and no announcement was made at 11 o'clock over the alert system. I'm sure many people would've stopped for the minute if there had been an announcement. I went into the city centre as I thought there would be something - especially on the 100th anniversary. In the past there have been buglers in the city to play the last post, but they may have been all out at the Shrine. If you really want to show respect then go to the war memorials and see what these people were enduring. We do it well, in Australia, the memorials are about how awful war is for the average service person; not glorifying the victories. It is about how people cared for each other when the conditions were unbearable. I'm not ashamed to be an Australian because we may be a little thoughtless at times, but when it really matters most people pull together. It isn't standing for 1 minute, it is about caring for people the rest of the time - respect the sacrifice every day.
I was born in Australia, and also feel a sense of national shame.
For different reasons, I suspect.
- 1
- 2
On board the announcement is along the lines of "welcome to our frequent flyers, one world partners flyers, military and ex military personnel flying with us today". It just adds to the existing generic announcement.
I assume Virgin's plan was similar. Seen claims by the media, but no information to support their claims. I don't see any reason to assume they planned on singling out passengers.