Where to Stop at This Intersection?

spurf on 19/10/2018 - 23:00
Last edited 20/10/2018 - 12:51 by 2 other users

Have a look at this picture of an intersection I cross regularly.

https://imgur.com/a/6Fib9CF

I (and most other drivers) stop before the pedestrian crossing if there is someone waiting to cross then stop again at the dashed line. If there are no pedestrians I just stop at the dashed line.

I have been paying more attention recently and noticed that the solid line and stop sign is before the pedestrian crossing. Reading the RMS website I think I should be stopping before the pedestrian crossing irrespective of if there is any pedestrians trying to cross and then proceed through the intersection like it is a "Give Way."

Is this correct?

If it is I guess it makes sense as it forces more attention to pedestrians as there are 3 crossings to check are clear. If there was no pedestrians crossing then the intersection would work fine with "Give Way" signs as visibility for vehicles is good.

Automotive

Comments

  • John Kimble on 19/10/2018 - 23:10
    +4

    Correct.

    Fun fact, if you don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign, you can get pinged for not stopping.

    Happened to my dad years ago.

    There's intersections like that with no crossings and stop signs for everyone…so confusing who goes first :/

    • spurf on 19/10/2018 - 23:19

      This is actually one of those lovely intersections. Any intersection that relies on you guessing what the other driver thinks is the rule isn't a good intersection in my opinion!

      • John Kimble on 19/10/2018 - 23:22

        Yours seems worse given the addition of crossings and a school zone…you might as well put lights there…

    • [Deactivated] on 20/10/2018 - 01:27
      +1

      The guy with the gun rack on the back and the bumper sticker that says "gun's don't kill people, I do".

      But actually it depends on who is going what way. Eg. if you're turning right you have to give way to someone going straight. If you're turning left, just to someone on your right. It almost never happens that there's an intersection with 4 stop signs and 4 people all arrive and stop at the same time and all want to say, go straight ahead. But if they do, it's easy because since everyone is stopped and someone can just start moving very slowly, at a walking pace the chance of someone hitting someone else without warning is not great.

      • spurf on 20/10/2018 - 11:11

        My understanding is that you give way to whichever car arrives at the intersection first. When cars arrive at the same time then your rules then apply. This is the exact problem with this sorry of intersection!

        • [Deactivated] on 20/10/2018 - 15:23

          Some towns in the UK/Europe greatly improved the safety of intersections like this by entirely removing all the markings, and making it a raised / paved 'shared space' people just move through it with caution giving way to pedestrians and each other. By and large it seems to work well, though people with visual impairments find it more stressful.

    • Gnosh on 21/10/2018 - 20:15

      Argh! There’s one near my house that confuses everybody. I’d really appreciate if anybody could explain the proper way of handling it.

      https://m.imgur.com/JRIFNrr
      North/southbound face give way signs. East/westbound face stop signs.

      Some people are of the belief that give ways have right of way over stop signs, but I’ve read somewhere that they act as stop signs when against other stop signs.

      Some have also said you should give way to the right, or first in has right of way.

      Does anybody know?

      • pegaxs on 21/10/2018 - 23:50
        +2

        For a start, there is no “right of way” or “give way to the right” rules in the Australian Road Rules. There is only the “obligation to give way.”

        It’s a bad intersection. But the way I look at it is, the give way lines are more or less there to slow that line of traffic down. They do not have “right of way”, but must give way to anyone entering or already in the intersection. If the intersection is clear and/or quiet, they do not have to stop.

        On the other hand, the vehicles coming to the stop sign must stop. Night, day, weekends, Christmas Day, they must come to a stop, there is no question about that.

        So, I’m saying that, if two vehicles arrived at exactly the same time to each respective line, the “stop” sign car must come to a stop, where as the “give way” sign car merely has to slow down and could enter the intersection first.

        Now, if the stop sign car arrives 3 seconds earlier and starts entering the intersection after stopping and before the give way car arrives, the giveway sign car must give way to the stop sign car.

        Simples!

        (NB: I am not a traffic lawyer and any advice I offer is general in nature and only derived from my study of the Australian Road Rules 2014.)

  • Flanders on 19/10/2018 - 23:23
    +2

    Definitely have to come to a complete stop at the solid line there, with stop sign.
    And yes, I would think the stop sign need is likely (at least in part) related to the 3 pedestrian crossings.
    Need to stop, check all 3 crossings then proceed accordingly.
    Imagine this scenario; you just drove accross then notice there is pedestrian approaching the crossing at other side of intersection, you then have to stop and give way to pedestrians, yet you would be stuck in middle of intersection holding traffic up that are crossing from left, headed right .

  • [Deactivated] on 19/10/2018 - 23:45

    Stop at the solid line.

  • pegaxs on 19/10/2018 - 23:55
    +1

    This is covered in the Road Rules Legislation under 67 and 68.

    (1) A driver at an intersection with a stop sign or stop line, but without traffic lights, must stop and give way in accordance with this rule.

    (2) The driver must stop as near as practicable to, but before reaching:
    (a) the stop line

  • JIMB0 on 20/10/2018 - 07:08

    Can someone make an MSpaint drawing to help comprehend this better.

  • Yummy on 20/10/2018 - 07:18
    +3

    For the love of durian, OP please use IMGUR instead.

    https://imgur.com/a/nfjOidK

    Stop right at Big P***s.

    • pegaxs on 20/10/2018 - 08:27
      +2

      OMG, yes! I hate all these other image hosting sites with all the advertising all over them. They are always slower and look so cluttered.

      And WTF is it with those “tags”?? Lol.

  • agom on 20/10/2018 - 10:27

    I was told by my driving instructor that you cannot stop at pedestrian crossing irrespective of someone around or not.

    • pegaxs on 20/10/2018 - 12:39

      Stop at or on??

      You don't have to stop at the crossing if there are no people around, but you must slow down, irrespective of people using it or not. (Read: Road Rules Reg. 82)

      As for stopping on the crossing;

      Australian Road Rules 2014: Regulation 172 says…

      (1) A driver must not stop on a pedestrian crossing that is not at an intersection

      So, in general, yes. But in OP's case, no. You are permitted to stop on this crossing because it is part of an intersection with a giveaway line.

  • Euphemistic on 20/10/2018 - 11:29

    Just stop in he middle. That’ll confuse everyone and start the local council thinking about putting in lights.

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