eBay Return Nightmare Needing ACCC/Ombudsman Intervention- Is PayPal a Financial Institution?

Short Story:

I was told by PayPal 5 days ago that I will be receiving a refund for a purchase I returned. For 5 days I've waited and had to contact them each day when the refund hasn't come through. They keep telling me that 'Today we just found in your favor and to expect the refund in xx hours". It's been 5 days of the same message and no refund and I'm sick of being being told for the 10th time that they just found in my favor today and to wait another 72 hours.

The seller relisted the item on Monday. So PayPal has been holding onto a big chunk of my change dispute every other financial institution providing instant refunds once the due diligence has been done.

I want to report eBay/PayPal to the ACCC/Consumer Affairs, but don't know if PayPal are considered a bank, private sale, or commercial merchant in my case?

Long Story:

On the 2nd of September I purchased a Sony FDR-AX100E from a private sale on eBay for ~$720. It was advertised with a bit cosmetic damage, but when I received it there was mechanical wear/damage that was causing the lens assembly to make loud click noises on some start ups, would make groaning/grinding noises when zooming and twice locked up requiring a battery pull in the first day I had it.

I took a video of the problem and asked the seller if it had this problem before it was sent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcJPOm_BtM

The seller replied that it didn't have that problem, and that I must be a professional scammer who used the camera for a job then wanted to return it. He did not respond to the eBay dispute, so 7 days went before eBay stepped in. eBay couldn't confirm his address with him so it was another 3 day wait before they sent me the return postage label.

On the 18th I packed and returned the camera. On the 21st it was marked as delivered. I spoke with eBay on the 21st who noted it had been returned and that I will be receiving my refund shortly.

It's now 5 days since I was told I will be receiving the refund, and when contacting eBay today I'm told "today we found in your favor, expect a refund in 72 hours". I get told the same thing the 4 days I have I contact them, that apparently that was the day, not the previous day when they said it then. So I have chat transcripts of being lied to by many eBay reps.

In the past I've had great experiences getting Ombudsmen to help me out when dodgy institutions won't play ball but this time around because the original item was a private sale, but my problem is with PayPal and not the seller - how to approach this situation.

Oh and if anyone is bidding on a Sony AX100E's on eBay be very weary of ones that are shipping from North Sydney from a seller with less than 100 feedback you won't be getting a bargain, you'll just be getting a headache.

Related Stores

eBay Australia
eBay Australia
Marketplace
PayPal
PayPal
Marketplace

Comments

  • +3

    So 4 days ago they advised 72hrs (which is 3 days), there's been a weekend in between, and at most they're late by a day?

    I feel your energy and time spent on this novel could've been used better elsewhere honestly haha.

    I generally expect things to take 3-5 business days, and I certainly wouldn't start being worried unless there's good reason (not here) until maybe 14 days in.

    Just be patient - Paypal has a history of screwing over sellers, not buyers.

    • -7

      4 days ago would be Saturday.

      If you've dealt with PayPal refunds in the past, then you should generally expect PayPal refunds the day they find in your favor. I've had quite a few although for small items less than $50. This is the first large purchase I've needed to refund, and they found in my favor 5 days ago.

      We can't all have the life you lead, not getting worried until 14 days after you were entitled to a refund.

      • I mean, yes - and Saturday is a weekend, and I don't usually expect anything to be done, especially not financial stuff, over the weekend.

        And it's not up to me or the life I lead, I could be starving and the timeframes would still be the same. And 14 days is a very standard timeframe in every field from banking to legal to business in general. You're entitled to a refund, yes - but unless it specifically says otherwise, that'd be a 'refund within a reasonable time'. Which is again the 14 days I'm talking about.

      • +1

        I'm sure if you have the discretionary funds to purchase a $700 camera, you lead the life to be able to wait a few days. You asked 10 times in 5 days? Or 10 times in the 2 days above the 72 hours they told you?

  • +4

    "The PayPal service is provided by PayPal Australia Pty Limited (ABN 93 111 195 389) which holds Australian Financial Services Licence number 304962."

    Also, I've successfully lodged a case against PayPal with the Financial Ombudsman Service in the past. It resulted in PayPal compensating me.

    • You even hyperlinked it for the extra convenience, thanks!

      • +1

        You're welcome!

        I firmly believe the onus is on us to keep these bastards honest.

        • +2

          They're currently a day late - if at all (weekend) - in processing a refund. This is the first winds of a storm in a teacup.

  • I'd say give PayPal sufficient time then if you don't care about being banned hit them hard. The barstoss

    • I'm not looking to do a chargeback, I'm looking to get a refund which they themselves have said I will get - but keep telling me everyday I ask where is it, that they just found in my favor and to expect a refund in 72 hours.

      AFAIK no one gets banned because they have done the whole process, they get banned when they do chargebacks before PayPal investigates or when PayPal investigates and they don't find a reason to refund.

      Looking at how much I spend on eBay per year (for the last 10 years) is in the many thousands of dollars using PayPal. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.

      • many thousands of dollars

        As profit is 30 cents and 2.6%per transaction your "many thousands of dollars" is not much profit for them.

  • +2

    If PayPal ever had to front the Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry there would be a long line of people with baseball bats.

    • True. I never pay with PayPal for anything over $100. It's just too dangerous looking at their track record.
      At least banks are accountable to someone.

  • 5 Business days.

  • +1

    He did not respond to the eBay dispute, so 7 days went before eBay stepped in.

    you've filed an ebay mbg dispute. why do you want paypal to issue a refund?

  • +1

    I'm confused, in the short story you say Paypal is returning your money but in the long story you say eBay isn't returning it, AFAIK eBay no longer owns Paypal?, I wonder whether the issue occurs because you now have multiple investigation ongoing and one is waiting for another? In saying that I've never had an issue for Paypal returning money to me and since you've already been approved I think its just a matter of waiting? If not I guess you found the info above but either way hopefully you get your money soon.

    • There is no communication with PayPal when it comes to eBay disputes - it's all done through eBay so I don't believe that is the issue.

      The issue for me is that I've waited 5 days after it was marked as delivered to the sellers address after initiating the return process which took 2 weeks due to the seller not communicating with eBay. When contacting eBay today and yesterday I get told (probably their SOP, but a horrible one) that they just that day found in my favor and to wait xx hours (xx has been 24, 48 and recently now been told 72 hours).

      • Exactly - the issue is with eBay. Why are you thinking of making a complaint re Paypal?

        • -4

          Because eBay are not the ones holding onto my money.

          I don't know if you are a devils advocate or someone who genuinely believes what they say when they come to the defense of financial institutions for breaking their own terms that they state. If it's the latter - just wait until it's your turn getting screwed around and you may have a different opinion.

          • +1

            @c0balt:

            Because eBay are not the ones holding onto my money.

            Lol what?

            If Harvey Norman sells you a defective product and owes you a refund, would you lodge a complaint about their bank? I'm not defending financial institutions (they've taken more than their share of my money) and I'm not being a devil's advocate. I like to think I'm advocating for sense and reason.

            • +1

              @HighAndDry:

              would you lodge a complaint about their bank?

              I don't think its even the companies bank, this is like Harvey Norman selling a defective product and OP lodges a complaint about their own bank?

  • +2

    but my problem is with PayPal and not the seller

    your dispute is with the seller and ebay.

    • -2

      Dispute with the seller was done and dusted and found in my favor. eBay agreed the item had a mechanical fault and provided me a return postage label.

      When it comes to eBay disputes when paid through PayPal - eBay/PalPal requires people to go through the eBay resolution center and can't be done on the PayPal website. PayPal holds onto the money, eBay holds onto the button that gets people the refunds back.

      • +3

        PayPal holds onto the money, eBay holds onto the button that gets people the refunds back.

        So for the nth-bloody-time, why are you considering a complaint against Paypal instead of eBay?

        • -3

          Because just now I got the refund, not taking into account the 10% off eBay voucher and 2x eBay vouchers by going my method.

          So $100+ extras for not listening to you, and a speedy resolution.

          It's called getting s**t done in your favor, maybe listen to others sometime instead of treating your head like it's worth a lot more than others.

          • +2

            @c0balt:

            Because just now I got the refund

            So within the 72hr timeframe, but accounting for the weekend?

            Never said you wouldn't get the refund. Just said you should wait a few more days. And oh look - you got it a few days later. And oh sure you got vouchers for whining - that's not something to be proud of.

            • -2

              @HighAndDry: You berated me for contacting PayPal because I was getting handballed between eBay reps who would tell me one thing but not act on it - time and time again.

              No, not within the 72 hour time frame. We have gone over this before.

              Yeah to be a proud HighAndDry I should have just done nothing at all but whinged about it on the internet and done nothing in real life. To be a proud c0balt, I get actual stuff done especially in the face of people like yourself who then go on to be jealous about me getting $100 extras for it because I didn't listen to them.

              • +1

                @c0balt:

                You berated me for contacting PayPal

                Nope. Find me where I did that. I said it's ridiculous you're thinking of going to the FSO re Paypal for this.

                who then go on to be jealous about me getting $100 extras for it because I didn't listen to them.

                I'm not jealous. Would I like free money? Yes. Do I have enough self-respect that I'd rather not whine to get them? Also yes.


                Can I point out that you got your money within a few days as I repeatedly said you would?

                And that still,

                Yesterday I received an email from eBay

                It was EBAY that was dealing with this, and NOT PAYPAL?

                • -1

                  @HighAndDry: You upvoted all the comments that say it.

                  Do you upvote comments you don't agree with often, like the one saying dispute was with the seller and I shouldn't contact PayPal, without agreeing with it?

                  Unlike you I don't have time for 100 comments on this website a day, my time has become worth a lot more than the savings in bargains.

                  • +1

                    @c0balt:

                    You upvoted all the comments that say it.

                    Again, go find one. Otherwise I'm getting tired of this conversation.

  • +3

    Had had a few disputes, Paypal always gave me my money back. Takes time, relax bro

  • Did you pay by card? It's quite common for card refunds to take a while. AFAIK it's not so much anyone wanting to hold on to your money but rather just how card merchants work - refunds are rare enough that they don't optimise for immediate processing of them.

  • Did you contact PayPal via email or by calling?

    • PayPal should advise the buyer to wait for ebay to instruct PayPal to issue a refund.

      • +1

        Buyer hasn't contacted Paypal at all, despite their post starting with "I was told by PayPal 5 days ago that…" because in a later comment:

        There is no communication with PayPal when it comes to eBay disputes - it's all done through eBay

      • Maybe it is late but I have reread that sentence umpteen times and my eyes are now crossed. Thanks.

  • Have you checked your paypal account I believe the money is refunded into this not to your credit card/bank account

  • Did you pay by Card? Simple if thats the case, and much easier — call your bank and do a charge back. That really makes Paypal lift their game as your bank pulls the money back from them. Its the best.

    I agree with you, Paypal are too slow so I take it into my own hands.

  • Maybe that's normal? I have a phone that buzzes when it turns on…..

  • I had a great result this morning.

    Yesterday I received an email from eBay apologising for the delay and providing vouchers. I also finally received an email that they found in my favor, despite being told so for a week, their system was still showing an open dispute.

    Then I received a full refund, not taking into account the 10% off eBay voucher I used.

    All up, $100+ in extras for being a squeaky wheel - not bad at all!

Login or Join to leave a comment