Help: Saw Neighbours Trespassing in My Backyard, Police Said It Was Lawful

OzBoganYeah on 14/09/2018 - 14:52
Last edited 14/09/2018 - 20:02

This is a lengthy post. I am still pretty freaked out: you see strangers opening the gate and walking around in your backyard.

So today I saw my next door neighbour and his wife trespassing in my backyard through the window. They opened the side gate (it was locked with one of those latches (http://pccruises.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/storage-shed-…) and were their quite some time. By the time I got decently dressed, they were gone. It really freaked me out because I have chronic anxiety, live alone (with one year old twins) and I don't have security cameras. At first I didn't know who it was then I recognised it was my neighbours. I never gave them permission to access my backyard.

I called the police (station, not 000 since it wasn't an emergency and they had gone) an spoke to someone and he said "you are able to open the gate and go into someone's backyard without their consent. We [police] do it all the time." And he was explaining how it was A-OK. It was a grey area because it depends on lawful intent but that it was a grey area and technically (according to him) there is nothing wrong with going into someone else's yard without their consent.

And the policeman over the phone said it was not trespassing, because trespassing is when you go out, see them without permission on your premises and tell them to leave and if they don't leave, that is trespassing. I went over to their house to ask them and they weren't there. I didn't like his explanation because what if you do have security cameras and they catch someone snooping around in your yard. What do I do?

Edit: feel free to suggest security systems/cameras or anything. Just to clarify some things:

  • I went over to their house and knocked three times (three sets of knocks), they don't have a doorbell. So I went home, wrote a note and left a short note for them asking what they were doing.
  • several people thought i was naked/wearing only underwear. I wasn't, I was wearing sweatpants and an old jumper.
  • I have really
  • i have really bad anxiety and it affects my everyday life and I initially didnt want to confront them (at first I thought it was the neighbors in their own yard, then I saw there were actually in my yard)
  • I got dressed (few mins) and went upside, but they were gone.
  • the wife was (I'm presuming) there a few seconds??
  • polic explained it like anyone can walk into somebody else's house, unlock their sidegate and enter the backyard and just snoop around.
Home & Garden

Comments

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:24

      I'm still a little nervous. I don't think it would be a bird that they'd need to unlock a gate and enter my backyard to see. I've been trying to think of reasons to why they would do something like that.

  • darkly on 15/09/2018 - 20:08

    Get a dog…

  • wortho on 15/09/2018 - 21:50
    +2

    Our neighbor accused my Wife of trespassing after we tried to talk to him about his barking dogs. A few days before he went out and had left his pressure washer plugged in to mains but turned off the water supply, well about an hour later the thing turns itself on as the water pressure drops and motor is screaming while running dry, my Wife decides to go around and reach over and pull the plug but the neighbor on the other side see's her leaving and then tells the immediate neighbor that my Wife had been snooping around his yard while he was out. I confronted him and explained the situation but he still said she was trespassing, this bloke had a chip on his shoulder for sure over the dog complaints (he had seven but was only authorised for one as per his tenancy agreement) anyway I told him he was an idiot and left it at that but it doesn't always pay to be a good neighbour when you have tools like this living next door.

  • XanderYuan on 15/09/2018 - 22:20
    -4

    Unless there is an easement for your neighbor to pass your land, it is unlawful. Trespass I remember is a strict liability? And you would be able to sue in torts of trespass. I would put a sign on the door that says no trespass. If they continue to trespass, I would seek an injunction from the court to keep anyone off the land. (This is not a legal advice, seek a lawyer)

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 09:56

      Your wrong.

      • XanderYuan on 16/09/2018 - 10:59
        -2

        Prove it

        • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 11:08

          plenty of definitions & links on this thread explaining what trespass is in terms of the law.
          And its certainly not what your saying. Btw your going overboard when you say OP should get an
          injunction, no court in australia will issue an injunction in this case.
          Very limited circumstances where injunctions get issued.
          This is like trying to shoot a bird with an anti aircraft gun.
          Im not a lawyer but consider it legal advise :)

        • XanderYuan on 16/09/2018 - 12:29

          @sidewinder1: I’m a law student atm, torts is from common law (and they are seperate from legislation hence you don’t know) although I studied torts long time ago, I haven’t forgotten the principles. Trespass required standing to sue, negligent or intention of direct interference and no intervening act. It’s all satisfied in this case. A court would have no reason to not grant an injunction if this happens again, op has a property right to the land, which includes the right to exclude; alienate etc. In my first class of law school, lecturers told us not to provide advice but we can express thoughts when asked. I haven’t studied this area yet but I think the reasoning behind it is that if you are wrong then you can be sued good luck stating that it is a legal advice.

        • Eeples on 24/09/2018 - 12:14

          YOU are making the claim YOU need to prove it.

        • XanderYuan on 24/09/2018 - 12:37

          @Eeples: WOW, fine
          BTW he/she is making the claim that I am not right, HE NEEDS TO PROVE ME WRONG
          Trespass is a voluntary positive act of the defendant that directly and intentionally (or it seems negligently) physically interferes with P's right to exclusive possession of the land - " protection of property and the privacy and security of the occupier' (NSW v Ibbett)
          1. Is there land? Yes… (Bernstein)
          2. Standing to sue? Yes Op has exclusive possession of the land (Newington v Windeyer) Not a mere licensee (Vaughan v Shire of Benalla)
          3. Positive - yes not passive (Innes v Wylie)
          4. Voluntary - Yes directed by D's mind
          5. Interferes with exclusive possession of land - actionable per se, Slightest physical crossing of the boundary of P’s land (Lavender v Betts)
          6. Directness - no intervening act such as defense or natural event (Scott v Shepherd (1773); Southport Corporation v Esso )
          7. Intention - yes Williams v Milotin (1957) HCA

          Easements are recognised in Riley v Penttila [1974] VR 547; Ellenborough Park [1956] Ch 131

        • Eeples on 25/09/2018 - 10:51

          @XanderYuan:

          Ridiculous.

          You have made the claim. You need to prove/substantiate it.

          If you really think one can prove a negative good luck in your brief law career.

          You seem to have been having it both ways in your initial posting. You start by saying it would be unlawful then you talk about putting a sign up saying 'No trespass'. Why bother if it is unlawful already?

          I would suggest the 'Your wrong' comment was commenting on the first part of your post; and you stating it was black and white unlawful.

          Perhaps you should consider that part was actually wrong; considering the amount of clarification in your more detailed posting.

        • XanderYuan on 25/09/2018 - 11:11

          @Eeples: it is unlawful in this situation, because his/her neighbour crossed a place where no one should be allowed. however, if his/her neighbour takes a wonder in his/her front garden, it is not unlawful given that there was no sign. By having a sign, it avoids the problem. The big problem is that you havent understood the situation.

        • XanderYuan on 25/09/2018 - 11:13

          @Eeples: Different results would arise for different boundries crossed

      • Dingus on 16/09/2018 - 19:23

        Mate, it is "you're* wrong" at least get that right.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2018 - 11:43
          +1

          Your right mait well Done

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:28

      I didn't have a 'no trespass' sign because I wouldn't think anyone would enter my backyard without permission. And I think having a no trespass sign would be a bit pretentious/embarrassing. But now I'm considering it.

      • XanderYuan on 16/09/2018 - 13:57

        A good example will be a parcel delivery. If no one is allowed on the land then it is not possible for you to receive parcels. Therefore people are allowed in some parts of your land if they want to reach you. Displaying no trespass shows clear intention to exclude the person from accessing your property. It is probably a good idea to have the sign if you don’t want anyone on your property.

        • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:05

          I'm a bit confused, if I have a 'no trespassing ' sign, parcels won't be delivered? Or they will because it's ok?

        • XanderYuan on 19/09/2018 - 19:37
          -1

          @OzBoganYeah: I guess try no trespass unless delivery, just talk to a lawyer, seeking advice from ozbargain is not going to work, no one even know the relevant law…

        • XanderYuan on 19/09/2018 - 19:39
          -1

          @OzBoganYeah: also easements are a property right that flows with the land. If your neighbor has an easement over your land, legally they can walk pass. (Right of way)

        • Eeples on 24/09/2018 - 12:16

          @OzBoganYeah:

          If as this OP wants nobody to trespass in her backyard; yes she probably needs a 'No Trespass' sign and parcels should not be left in her backyard.

        • Eeples on 24/09/2018 - 12:18

          @OzBoganYeah:

          So you want parcels delivered in your backyard but you don't want strangers in your backyard.

          Decide.

  • Justbenice on 16/09/2018 - 01:07
    +29

    I can't believe some of the comments, do half of you even read the posts properly? This poor woman is home alone with her babies, one of whom is ill, she already suffers from anxiety, and she sees strangers (whom she later recognises as neighbours) in her back yard. And you tell her to harden up and treat her like she's an idiot because she called the police and is frightened? Are you people for real??? OzBargainYeah, I feel for you, I really do. Even if the neighbours were in your backyard innocently, it would still be unnerving. I guess most of the people who commented negatively don't know how scary it can be to live by yourself.

    • downbythecreek on 16/09/2018 - 10:21
      +2

      Unfortunately this type of response is par for the course when seeking advice on the internet these days. Half of those berating her would probably react in a similar way.

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:29

      Thank you for your kind words and support, I appreciate it. Some of the comments are unbelievable.

      • Filbert on 17/09/2018 - 15:31
        +5

        There are still a lot of people that see Depression and Anxiety as something that 'We all have just some cant cope very well" Ahh, no people, doesn't work that way. Bit like saying we all have a tall person in us but you are short because you are not letting them out.

        • HighAndDry on 25/09/2018 - 13:00

          That's not the point. Depression and Anxiety are very real issues, and anyone suffering from these should seek professional support. However, police are not the right professionals for this - people here are enabling OP's anxiety by throwing out wild hypotheticals, when anyone who's worked with someone like OP knows the right approach is to triviliase the incident (not OP's condition). There's a distinction.

    • HighAndDry on 25/09/2018 - 12:57

      This poor woman is home alone with her babies, one of whom is ill, she already suffers from anxiety

      None of this is anything the police can help with, and they're honestly a bigger part of this whole incident than neighbours incidentally being in her backyard. OP would be better off calling their Dr.

  • saine on 16/09/2018 - 03:20
    +11

    Anxiety is horrible. It makes it hard to put events in perspective - your body responds very quickly to unusual situations and identifies them as threats, triggering adrenaline and fight/flight. I understand this would be a triggering event that would cause distress and worry; anxiety makes you start catastrophising and imagining the worst case scenario.

    I suggest the following:
    If you have a friend or therapist, try talking to them first before taking it to open forums on Ozbargain. Reach out and mindspace are other places that may have people you can talk to. I love Ozbargain, but it is a forum with a mix of opinions and sometimes heated discussions. Some of these will play into or exacerbate anxiety when you need to be trying to calm your body's instinctive response and reinforce the logical thinking part of your brain. Please, be kind to yourself.

    One technique you may want to try is drawing a line. On the left, think of the best case scenario and and on the right put the worst, then deciding where the most likely situation would be on the line and seeing which end it is closest to. In this case, the likelyhood is that it was probably harmless. Perhaps they were looking at the fence between the houses. It was rude, but not necessarily a threat.

    When you talk to your neighbors, make sure that you don't go in too accusingly to begin with. "We haven't met properly, let me introduce myself. I noticed this. I'd like to know what it was about? I have young children, so I ask that you knock on the door should you need access again."

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:32
      +1

      Thanks for the kind words and the technique, I'll try that. I do agree how there's a mix of opinions, some good and other not so good.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 10:22

    I know exactly how you feel as I suffer from anxiety too. In this situation I think you did the right thing by reporting it to the police and I would definitely mention this to the neighbours either in person or in a note to let them know that their unwanted visit caused real stress and if they were doing something untoward then they are on notice that it has been reported to the police.

  • voteoften on 16/09/2018 - 11:25
    +2

    Hi OP, I hope you are feeling better as time goes on. 🤗. Have you had an opportunity to speak to your neighbours. It can be rather confronting when something unexpected happens. As they are your neighbours, I’m pretty sure they would have been looking for something specific. Perhaps something blew over their fence and they thought it landed in your yard or perhaps they thought they heard a animal in distress. There are so many reasons why they might have lehimately (in their minds) entered. There is a chance that they knew you had little ones and didn’t want to disturb you. With two little ones, it could be considered that you might sleep when they do. I wouldn’t want to wake a parent with little kids. They may well have thought they were somehow doing you a favour. Some people have tight boundaries, others don’t. I moved out of a house and my neighbour went over and found items in my garage and asked me if they could have them. A different neighbour, thinking I was going to demolish and rebuild, dug up and took my rose bushes. Neither thoughtbtheir behaviour was odd in the slightest. Please let us know if you find anything out. 💐

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:37

      Hello, I'm still nervous. They haven't responded to my note yet. I'm going to knock on their door again and see if they're home.

      • Dont Care on 16/09/2018 - 17:28
        -6

        Don't knock on their door, you would be trespassing as well.

        • Eeples on 24/09/2018 - 12:19

          I made that point ages ago apparently the OP (and others) do not see the irony.

  • ShannonN on 16/09/2018 - 11:39
    +1

    Sadly this is Ozbargain so we do not know you and your past history which has led to your anxiety or paranoia, If you are a woman perhaps your have been a victim of domination, verbal and physical abuse etc and have escaped that situation and relocated to a new area where you should feel safe.

    I feel for you and the need to protect your children and yourself from any actual or perceived threat. However, to ease the anxiety, perhaps start thinking the incident was not a deliberate invasion of privacy but something less sinister. You mentioned the woman was shouting at her husband and was not present as long as he was.

    Perhaps they were fighting and he sought refuge in your yard merely to get away from the nagging? Many men find when angry they have to leave the area to defuse the situation before violence takes place?

    This may explain the lack of response to your note? Who would want to air their dirty laundry to the neighbour. I'd let the matter of the explanation drop for now and wait until you see the neighbours outside in the street to approach (street = neutral ground) and just inquire without accusation what went down.

    As others have said, perhaps make them aware you have kids that are wary of strangers and invite them to meet the children, identify themselves by name as your neighbours so they (kids) will not freak and avoid them if they pass on the footpath etc.

    Unless you can ascertain these ppl were stalkers etc please dont scare your kids unnecessarily by making out they're the boogeyman and must be avoided at all costs

    I hope you can resolve this peacefully and reclaim your privacy and dignity

    • OzBoganYeah on 16/09/2018 - 13:40

      It's possible they were fighting. Though I find it really odd if he needed a place to calm down, why he'd walk round to my place, unlock the gate and stay there for a few minutes. I appreciate your comment.

      • Chewy Chunks on 16/09/2018 - 20:51
        +1

        Though I find it really odd if he needed a place to calm down, why he'd walk round to my place, unlock the gate and stay there for a few minutes.

        That would make it infinitely more weirder.

      • Eeples on 25/09/2018 - 10:55

        The gate was not locked. The latch was closed.

  • djmm on 16/09/2018 - 12:34

    Dig a 3 meter hole with 2 meter diameter in front of gate opening, cover with leaves

    • DarkOz on 16/09/2018 - 17:42
      +1

      Digging the hole is the easy part. Where do you find leaves that are 2 meter in diameter?

      • djmm on 16/09/2018 - 18:13

        You put thin mesh wire on top of hole and cover with leaves. To make sure the animals take the bait, put $50 note sitting on top of a box right in front of the hole.

        • Yummy on 18/09/2018 - 12:42
          +1

          Dont forget those sharp and long spikes.

    • Damnsmart on 16/09/2018 - 18:15

      Ha ha. . By the sounds if it, you may have to pay the medical bill and sued by their insurence companyon their behalf them if they fall into it, coz you havent put a note there saying theres a trap in your backyard 😂😂

  • prinsenhof on 16/09/2018 - 13:23
    +4

    The answers you seek can be found by watching home alone 1, 2 and 3.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 13:55

    If your anxiety is so high (try the Calm app) change your meds, you don't deserve to live with this condition! :)

    With the neighbours, in NSW can be considered tresspass. Not sure in Qlds. But that is not a path you should initially go down.

    I have just been to court because I have a fruitcake neighbour, didn't really end up with any result. Just wasted my time after they bought a number of spurious claims against me.

    For your neighbour Send a letter to them, saying this is not acceptable behaviour. Be cordial and polite, tell them things you find acceptable about their behaviour, or maybe even some good things you like. You don't have to tell them about your medical condition.

    Note when it was sent, scan copy.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 15:06

      i agree with you about notifying her neighbors in a polite way but telling them whats acceptable is not necessary in my point of view.
      OP on the other hand can get a Misconduct Restraining Order if things don't settle.

      • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2018 - 21:04

        In NSW, if you allow something to happen such as repeated tresspas then it may be considered that you are agreeing to the behaviour. Clearly stating what is acceptable by letter is clear in intent for any future action, and leaves no ambiguity.
        "Getting" a misconduct restraint order through civil claim is costly,requires evidence and is a year's worth of anxiety.
        Criminally, one would have to have a police officer who would willing to raise the charge. Good luck with that! Round my way they are too busy hassling motorists.

  • ozoner on 16/09/2018 - 16:12

    Plenty of helpful suggestions here about what to do as far as the neighbour being in your yard - I'd respectfully suggest that some work with a psychologist re: your anxiety probably wouldn't hurt. I say this as someone who had GAD, panic disorder and agorophobia diagnoses for many years.

    All the best in working through this issue, hope you resolve it.

  • DarkOz on 16/09/2018 - 17:40
    +2

    It's been 2 days. Has the neighbours come home yet? Please keep everyone updated.

    • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:07

      They've been home but it's hard to tell because their blinds/curtains are drawn. Abd haven't seen any cars parked on their driveway yet.

      • HighAndDry on 25/09/2018 - 13:03

        Do you not somehow seem them walking to and from their house during the day?

  • Cleremy on 16/09/2018 - 17:43

    I'm sure by now I'm the tenth person to suggest putting up some no trespassing signs.

    Neighbours probably were retrieving something or something similar so you could be turning a molehill into a mountain here (from one anxious person to another).

    Might not happen again but if it does, only then would taking action be a good idea. Points for actually trying to talk to your neighbour (my neighbours haven't answered the door in similar scenarios).

  • wallet72 on 16/09/2018 - 18:18
    +1

    so essentially would a sign at all entries to your property, saying something like 'If you do not have the occupants express written permission you are trespassing and are committing a crime, action will be taken', would that be enough to make any unapproved visitors trespassers? Would the police act then?

    • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:08

      That's a good question, I'm not sure.

    • HighAndDry on 25/09/2018 - 13:04

      Would the police act then?

      No. Also the signs will have little to no legal effect. The only effect they'll have is make people think OP is a crazy person.

  • mreddie on 16/09/2018 - 19:24
    +1

    Buy a square head lock for the gate, these are great and stop someone turning the latch over them - it simply won't go over the square shape. They sell them at Bunnings…. buy one and replace your current lock.

    • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:09

      Thanks for the tip.

  • JuryWheel on 16/09/2018 - 21:11

    Cant be bothered reading the whole thing - do we know why they were in the backyard yet…..?

    • Dont Care on 16/09/2018 - 21:22
      -1

      they wanted to use the phone to call the police

  • drfuzzy on 16/09/2018 - 23:42

    Do you know your neighbours Ozbargain handle? You can tag them in this thread.

  • CalmLemons on 17/09/2018 - 00:53
    -4

    First world problems…

    • Roman Sandstorm on 17/09/2018 - 11:22
      +1

      Stupid expression. Lost its (limited and meaningless) currency ages ago.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2018 - 06:35

    Thanks OP for education. I thought this was tresspassing without the owner's concent.
    Several neighburs have done this over the years including theft and stupid maliscious property damage.
    Why bother having a fence and gate?

    • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:10
      +1

      I know right. The law on this is weird and glad I could at least inform one other person regarding trespassing.

  • giventofly on 17/09/2018 - 08:53

    First of all, sorry about your anxiety and props for not dialling 000.

    I would get cameras as they might do it again and have been doing it for a while

    I had this happen to me when I moved into my new house - only issue was that the neighbours were squatters and dealing meth.

    How long have you been there? Know them at all?

    • OzBoganYeah on 19/09/2018 - 19:12

      I've lived here longer than they have and don't know them at all.

  • cuteseal on 17/09/2018 - 10:14
    +2

    I'm quite surprised that half the people here seem to be ok with people poking around in around other people's backyards, especially one that is fenced off and inaccessible from the public. Surely everyone should have the expectation to privacy and safety in their own properties. I've got an old retired nosy neighbour and every day he takes a stroll up and down the street, and without fail will stand on the footpath at the front of my property and take a good long look into my property… like a good 4-5 minutes. He's not even trespassing into my property and that behaviour gets up my goat - I can't imagine what it would be like if I saw him creeping around my backyard.

    I don't seem to see if OP has said what state they live in but in QLD at least, it says:

    In Queensland, you have the right to privacy in your home or at your business. If a person violates this right,
    they may be committing the offence of trespass.

    and

    Under the Summary Offences Act a person must not enter into, or remain in someone’s house or yard, or business premises without their permission, unless they have a lawful reason to be there.

    http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/Find-legal-information/Crimin…

    But then again I agree with others that I'm sure many scary stories often have an innocent explanation - OP please talk to the neighbour and let us know what their story was!

    • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2018 - 11:15

      "half the people here seem to be ok with people poking around in around other people's backyards,"… I don't think anyone is OK but the law is the law. Change it & then we'll be OK.

    • HighAndDry on 25/09/2018 - 13:05

      I'm quite surprised that half the people here seem to be ok with people poking around in around other people's backyards

      No one is okay with it, but unless we know more it's also not something to go straight to the police about. We live in a society, talk to your neighbours.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2018 - 10:38

    Perhaps they weren't your neighbors but alien beings and your yard contains some some of portal that returns them safety back home. That's probably why there were away from their temporary Earth shelter when you knocked.

  • foxinsox8 on 17/09/2018 - 13:15

    What? You have a window that leads into your backyard. Why did they enter through a window? Don't you have a gate?

  • djtranny on 17/09/2018 - 13:16
    +1

    No threat, no damage, no peeping, no repeat occurrence… no problem. There could have been any number of reasonable reasons. Jumping to conclusions is dangerous. Be friendly, be kind, talk to people.

  • OzBoganYeah on 18/09/2018 - 19:09
    +1

    There's no update to give, I've not spoken to them yet. I leave early for work and haven't seen any cars in their driveway. The blinds are drawn most of the time and i would rather not pop by at nights as I don't want to drag the kids along. I'll also reply to some comments tomorrow.

    • Eeples on 25/09/2018 - 10:57

      If it was me I would put up the 'No trespass' sign and install a lock not a latch.

      I would also consider cameras.

      I would avoid such neighbours.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/09/2018 - 21:59

    Op if you're in Vic (like you're profile suggests), the cops are right, it's not illegal to tresspass, its what they call a civil wrong so the cops aren't responsible. You can sue someone in a civil court for trespassing, but you really need to prove that they were up to no good. If they took something, then its theft, which is a criminal matter (the police can deal with).

    http://www.lawhandbook.org.au/2018_06_04_03_entry_onto_land/

    It really is best to try to sort it out. I'd suggest you pop a note in their mailbox and tell them the truth, they scared the shit out of you and the kids. Could they be good neighbours next time, do you the courtesy and at least let you know they want to pop over.

  • voteoften on 01/10/2018 - 12:02

    Hi OP, how are you doing? 🤗 Any resolution?

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