With The Rising Fuel Cost, Is The LPG Conversion Really Worth?

mkar18 on 13/09/2018 - 12:16
Last edited 13/09/2018 - 17:00 by 1 other user

Ozbargainers,

With the Rising Fuel Cost wondering is it worth to Convert the car to LPG?
Costs about $3300 but if the car is gonna with you for let's say 6+ Years, I believe it breaks even at about 2 Years (or 50 Ks) and then on it is savings but would like to receive your thoughts or experience on this.

LPG ADVANTAGES (Donut Shaped Tank)

Long Range (5-6K on Petrol and 5.4K on LPG)
Clean Combustion because of Octane Rating of 100 or more
Long Engine Life
About 50% Cheaper (LPG at 0.71 Cents Compared to Unleaded at 1.59 Cents)
No Fuel Cycles
Less Toxic Emissions
Safety wise it evens out or even better than Petrol Tanks.

Disadvantages

The tank needs to be checked every 10 years
Checkups to be done every 20000ks which cost about $150.
The spare wheel needs to be on the boot or secured to the side of the boot.
Performance variation of 10% when having a certain load.

What are your thoughts or any experiences on LPG?

LPG = 0.70 x 10L = $7 for 100Km
Octane 95 Petrol = 1.70(Now) x 9L = $15.30 for 100Km
Unleaded Petrol = 1.59 (Now) x 9L = $14.31 for 100Km

You are looking at 50% savings roughly or 40 - 45% guaranteed…

Poll Options

  • 9
    LPG
  • 22
    PETROL
Automotive

Comments

  • HighAndDry on 13/09/2018 - 12:22
    +10

    You might want to add a second poll option there buddy.

    • Baysew on 13/09/2018 - 12:24
      +8

      Poll was designed by Diji1.

    • poboy on 13/09/2018 - 12:34
      +2

      Poster is a Republican.

    • mkar18 on 13/09/2018 - 12:43
      +1

      I did, but some issues with system, raised it to the moderator…

  • Hybroid on 13/09/2018 - 12:24
    +1

    Would be interested to see what users currently think in terms of performance loss and potential safety issues over time. I suppose ultimately it depends on the vehicle and how much you commute or drive in general. Wouldn't make sense for a weekend car but several thousand KM a week might?

  • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2018 - 12:26
    +3

    Long Range

    Yeah… not with LPG.

  • Ocker on 13/09/2018 - 12:29
    +5

    You use about 20% more LPG than petrol, and also you get less power

    • Shibster on 14/09/2018 - 07:52
      +2

      That was true in 1995….. the last batch of lpg vehicle from ford and holden were tuned down as they were more powerful than that some of the "spec" vehicle eg XR6

  • HighAndDry on 13/09/2018 - 12:50
    +1

    I believe it breaks even at about 2 years

    As others have said, depending on mileage, and what kind of mileage too. As someone who enjoys the act of driving (and who doesn't drive my commutes), never going to go for it, but I can see the benefits for someone who commutes a lot weekdays and isn't much of a driver otherwise.

  • Cluster on 13/09/2018 - 12:54
    +4

    Which LPG system? Look up the advantages of liquid injection versus vapour injecton. The former costs more, but has no power penalty and very good fuel economy.

    I had a vapour injection system on a 2004 Lancer. The car burned 7.9L/100km on petrol and just over 9L/100km long term average on LPG. I had the system installed at a time when AusIndustry was giving $2k to convert. The system well and truly paid for itself based on saved fuel and the subsidy, but without the subsidy it would have taken five years for the system to pay for itself. In terms of power I could feel the penalty of LPG when driving. It wasn't bad, but I could feel the missing power under heavier acceleration.

    I now drive a 2015 Hyundai i30 diesel, and even with the automatic transmission (Lancer was manual) the car is cheaper to drive on diesel than the Lancer was on LPG. LPG prices are higher in Adelaide than places like Melbourne however.

    If you want to see what's the cheapest way to drive, look at what taxi drivers are using in your local area. In Adelaide the fleet is about 80% Toyota hybrids, with a few diesels mixed in. Even before the Australian car industry shut down, Commodores and Falcons on LPG were rather rare from 2013 onwards.

  • spackbace on 13/09/2018 - 12:55

    You didn't say what the car is. On a Commodore/Falcon/Territory then sure, on an i30 then no

    • mkar18 on 13/09/2018 - 12:58

      2013 Toyota Camry 2.4L Petrol Engine

      • spackbace on 13/09/2018 - 13:02
        +1

        Car shouldn't use that much fuel to even bother. $7/100km difference? So a $3,000 system = ~43,000km before it pays for itself, but that's assuming your numbers don't fluctuate.

        Plus unless it's dedicated there is a noticeable performance difference

      • Kangal on 13/09/2018 - 13:07
        +1

        Overall, not worth it.

        You want to save money, and at best it would only pay for itself. Rather pointless.
        I would trade cars for something more fuel efficient, and I would change my driving habits.
        I distinctly remember getting around 6L/100km on my old Commodore compared to my older brother getting 11L/100km on a Tuscon. He should've had far less petrol spent than me. The difference was our driving habits, he would floor it from red light to red light, while I was a broke uni student coasting along roundabouts.

        The biggest fuel usage between cars is the driver.

    • dust on 13/09/2018 - 13:51
      +2

      Another issue not normally considered in the conversion to LPG is that in a small car it actually takes up a decent amount of your boot space!

  • tanksinatra on 13/09/2018 - 13:12
    +1

    What are your thoughts or any experiences on LPG?

    Got a few quotes back in the day. Decided against it. The numbers didn't stack up.

    Main issue is the declining difference between LPG and ULP price. About 8 years ago LPG was <60c/L. These days its around 80-90c/L. LPG vapour injection systems carry a significant fuel consumption penalty and require additional servicing.
    Wasn't worth it.

    https://www.allianz.com.au/car-insurance/news/the-rising-cos…

    If you're worried about running costs you're better off selling your car and getting a small cheap manual hatchback.

  • TheBilly on 13/09/2018 - 13:47
    +2

    Havent done a cost comparison. But diesel is not bad either.

    • Euphemistic on 13/09/2018 - 15:14

      Except that it isn’t really suited to short journeys and stop start traffic. It depends on where you are driving most often.

      • TheBilly on 13/09/2018 - 21:23

        True, long distance its great. Stop start is still not bad though, maybe in the big rigs its not good, but the little Vdub golfs and stuff do ok.

      • brendanm on 02/10/2018 - 13:02

        There is no issue at all with diesels and short distances, or stop start. The only time it's an issue is if you have a DPF, and seems to affect some cars more than others.

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 13/09/2018 - 13:57

    I used to have LPG and the most annoying thing was driving past 5 fuel stations without LPG every time you wanted to fill up a tank. But at least there wasn't an "Eastern Sydney" tax on LPG like there is for petrol. I never tested how low the 1/3-full to zero in an instant fuel gauge could go…

  • shockme79 on 13/09/2018 - 16:11
    +4

    I had my previous car (Holden Commodore VX) converted to LPG, the savings I achieved over a period of about 3 years were totally off-set against the cost of the LPG system backfiring & blowing my engine and needing to get engine replaced.

    My advice, don't bother!!! The short term gain won't be worth it in the long run..

  • rxjb on 13/09/2018 - 16:18
    +1

    Here are my thoughts on LPG. I drive a dual fuel Ford Territory and petrol Subaru Liberty.

    1. If getting LPG installed, get a liquid injected system. These are miles ahead in terms of the old mixer systems. Decent economy and greater power than using petrol.

    2. Around town - a mixer system on my ford territory uses about 20L gas / 100. That gives it a running cost similar to a mid size car from the same era. At 70c/l = $14/100kms. If I had an injected system, i suspect a result of about 15L/100. Refilling every 300kms is a pain around town. Newer systems may get more kms out of a tank.

    3. The price of LPG is roughly 50% of petrol, so with an increase in consumption, you are generally still better off overall.

    4. The LPG tank inspection is $200 every 10 years.

    5. I dont have any extra maintenance - some parts need changing - ie converter at 150kms, different spark plugs etc but thats about it.

  • scrimshaw on 13/09/2018 - 16:43

    Poll reset. Each line in the text box represents a new poll item.

    Help!

  • taurenpally on 14/09/2018 - 07:42

    I would be more worried about petrol stations slowly removing LPG tanks as holden/ford don't sell LPG cars anymore.

    But as you said it should pay for itself quite quickly/before its removed from stations

  • Mythreesons on 14/09/2018 - 07:57
    +2

    So we changed our thirsty 4wd to gas,
    1 it used the same amount of gas as it would fuel, there was no miracle of less usage (which for some reason I thought there would be because that's what I was told)
    2 gas prices are actually getting pretty high
    3 a lot of fuel stations are dgoing citing not to sell gas anymore. I actually have asked a few service stations about this and have received pretty much same reason from all. Apparently our government sells off most of our gas to other countries and at a lower price than they sell it to our own citizens and the service stations aren't making any money on gas, so are deciding to not sell it anymore.
    4 on top of the initial cost of having it installed (we paid well over $4000), you actually need to take it to a gas specialist to have the extra services and upkeep done (normal mechanics can not this and if they tell you they can they are lying and it will void your warranty)
    5 so got rid of our 4wd after 2 and a half years because the gas kept cutting out, stalling and no one could work out what the problem was and our warranty was voided because the mechanic who did one of the services wasn't qualified to work on lpg systems.
    No one in our area actually does the gas conversions anymore, so had to take my car over two hours away to get the system installed and that's why I couldn't take it back to them for all the services, they are a Monday to Friday business and I couldn't have time off work every time my car needed a service.
    Stick with petrol.

  • pjcook on 14/09/2018 - 08:13
    +1

    Not sure if this trend is Aus wide but the last 4 petrol stations opened here in Ballarat have not had LPG tanks installed. Seems to me that they are not proving profitable so I wonder how long it will be until LPG is not available.

    • 8200 on 02/10/2018 - 10:46
      +1

      Shell are removing LPG, taxi industry was the major user, now they use Camry Hybrid

      I see a day when LPG will be dead

      Poor sods who have single fuel Falcon, no option but to scrap the car

  • acoma on 14/09/2018 - 09:58
    +1

    I drove an LPG Falcon for 5 years. Another issue no-one discusses is the extra time it takes to fill up. More than double the time to petrol. It may not sound like a big deal once or twice but after it while it gets very annoying. When I switched back to a petrol car, I felt like I was saving so much of my time. Time == $$. Ozbargain rule #7.

  • RedFromBlue on 14/09/2018 - 10:41
    +1

    Do your own research on automotive forums. Only LPG conversion worth doing is Direct Injection. Do not do Vapour solution.

    Direct Injection will get 20% greater economy than Petrol, minimum.

    Power is higher. Early on there was a conversion company in Perth where at higher RPM, they had to cut back to petrol as to not exceed the power limits of the factory ford internals.

    Direct injection = greater power and economy than Petrol.

    Noting this, I would not perform the conversion on a small economical petrol vehicle, only on 10+L/100km vehicles. Disadvantages include fill time, possible fill issues, and a reduction in the number of outlets providing LPG (Shell for example are removing some).

  • Chris Topher on 14/09/2018 - 12:32
    +1

    I believe LPG is being phased out. I have it in my '98 Ford wagon and it's getting harder to get.

    One local servo removed it after a dispute with the distributor. Two new servos popped up and neither has it available.

    It looks like it's leaning over to diesel and electric.

    The cost/economy is getting closer to the same as petrol so the leveling out time is getting longer. I now put vehicle LPG is in the same category as solar power at home, the main difference is that home solar has a better looking future. Most of our gasses go to Asia cheaper than we can get it anyway.

    I really feel for those fools that bought a "LPG only" fueled car, there's prolly a lot of them in the used car market going cheap.

  • simmos on 14/09/2018 - 15:02

    I've had petrol, diesel, dual fuel LPG/Petrol and now own an EV. The latter is the best bet if you really want to save on fuel. The downside is that if you are looking to save big on fuel, the km/yr must be high enough to justify it. If you have high kms chances are the recharge time is an issue for you. There are many other savings: practically the only things you eed to maintain are tyres and brakes. I got my EV at a knock-down price and not many around like this but they do come up from time to time. I recharge with solar so there are no ongoing fuel costs hitting my wallet.

  • eggles01 on 14/09/2018 - 16:59
    +1

    NO NO NO do not be sucked in,I am getting my FACTORY GAS unit removed from my VY 2003 holden commodore wagon at a cost of $400 ,here in the ACT lpg price is 84.9 c per litre and petrol for the last year possibly longer has never dropped below $1.53-$1.49, I have to purchase 2.5 litres of LPG to get the same kilometres I get out of 1 litre of unleaded (not E10) petrol my vehicle has only done 247000 klms,my quote from the gas inspection station who has the 10 yr inspection ticket it costs $800 for the inspection and $750 to remove the entire system from the vehicle,if any body thinks it will eventually reduce in price,is very much mistaken the fuel companies linked the lpg gas to the high increases price of natural gas (household qas) and that will never reduce,and remember you have to have an inspection each year,down here the yearly inspection costs between $45 to $68 each year, multiply that cost to the ten year inspection,my costs for the 10 yr -$800 plus $68 each year totals,$1412 with that amount having to be saved with the lpg each year,remember that is only the inspection costs each year not including the cost of each litre of lpg

    • doctordv8 on 15/09/2018 - 16:21
      +1

      If your numbers are correct on economies, your vehicle is at fault. At 2.5l per compared to 1l on petrol, it should be so fuel rich it won't run. I have had and installed LPG for over 30 years, and the costs you associate with maintenance and inspections are way above industry stands and average. Perhaps the ACT workshops you frequent think you too are an overpaid politician. Plan an over border trip, get you vehicle sorted and enjoy the benefits, savings should be a lot easier achieve than you describe.

  • eggles01 on 14/09/2018 - 17:04

    for further info,join PETROL SPY it is free and the prices are linked to the latest phone in reports from the latest drivers information each day

  • eggles01 on 14/09/2018 - 19:04

    just curious as to which state you live in as you refer to an inspection at 20,000 klms each year,I have had lpg vehicles since the 1900s and it was each 12months for inspection

  • doctordv8 on 15/09/2018 - 17:10

    LPG, straight gas or duel fuel is still viable, providing your math is calculated correctly. Only you can estimate your kilometers towards the costings, as time means nearly nothing here unless you get to the 10 year tank inspection, which by then will be $? but more than than now, so only kilometers driven at this stage.

    Servicing is again per kilometers driven, and or as required. There is a difference in using cheap gas, poor quality gives poor economy, as well as more frequent servicing and repairs. The higher the Propane/Butane % mix the better, so shop around for spec's first. More Propane the better, remembering 100% Propane is around 130 Octane if you have a race car. LPG requires a stronger spark, and strong cranking power. It will fail earlier than on petrol so a good set of plugs, HT Leads and the best battery to suit is recommended as required. As your oil stays cleaner longer the change can be extended, but not if only doing very short stop/start short trips, like any engine, it'sa gotta get hottt to dry out condensation. Calculate also a tank of petrol every 4-5 tanks of gas to keep you system operational, and reduce your petrol going stale. Just a note, never ever run your car out of petrol while using gas, as your petrol pump will die in about a minute of going dry. So add the cost of a tank/s of go juice into your numbers.

    Shop around for a workshop to install, but also to service and repair and they may be different in costs and service. We do not have yearly 'anything' required for warranty or otherwise here(10 Yr test is Aust' wide), as long as and repairs affecting the liquid carrying components is performed by a Licensed workshop.

    So, on a vehicle you may only keep for 6 years, given it is a few years old now, maybe a poor choice, but….the $$ involved in your particular circumstances may negate the purchasing a near or newer vehicle.

    Vapor withdrawal is like a carburetor style system, and at only nearly 1/2 to 2/3 the cost to install against Injection, may be a very good option, as some engines and your driving style/needs really do very well in this form. On the other side is Liquid injection systems, but the cost is a bigger number to recoup, and when it breaks it is like owning a diesel against petrol, very expensive, it is computer controlled with specialized installation and repairs required.

    Ask other LPG vehicle drivers with your vehicle, and get real life notes and numbers. Many owners will stay one thing but have never actually recorded the numbers to prove it, and are guessing which will not help for or against.

    Vapor is cheaper to install and maintain, may use up to 20% more fuel, maybe NOT. We have always said to inquiring customers, LPG may use up to 20% at MAXIMUM acceleration and with full loads maintaining higher speeds on average, although you can't actually drive like this, and seriously, who uses maximum available power for any noticeably length of time. Note thou, the biggest killer of gas economy is a head wind for those driving in noted areas as such.

    Injected systems are like electronic ignition over contact points, chalk n cheese in starting and reliability for some vehicles that were difficult to maintain tune. Your Camry is an easy convert and poses no issues with either system.

    About 10 years ago a Taxi only needed 3 months to pay the system off, so, the kilometers is the biggest question as LPG will always(with current industry rumors) be an average of 1/2 or a bit more than petrol.

    Plus, an option, if you change to a diesel you can get a Diesel-LPG enhancement system, good for a performance and an economy boost, with the same bonus as with petrol cars - extra range.

    Do your research and then the math, that is the only true method to choose the viability or the fuel/vehicle type if not keeping your car as is.

    My 1200 Ute, still gets a zillion k's per tank, is an old school vapor system and still hauls arse. EV is a future option one day but only when the ute dies and when EV sounds like a a GTHO.

    I hope this all helps more than confounds.

  • Mad Max on 15/09/2018 - 22:23

    Hi doctordv8
    I think we are lucky in QLD that we do not have mandatory yearly inspections.
    As per the 10 years test for the LPG tank I was told once by an installer that most people do not bother doing it unless they wanted to sell the car. Mine is still in date, but the date on the tank is not in a visible spot and nobody has ever bothered checking it.

  • redvaldez on 18/09/2018 - 10:37
    +1

    About 50% Cheaper (LPG at 0.71 Cents Compared to Unleaded at 1.59 Cents)

    I would be wary about this.

    My old 4WD was on LPG when I bought it and at that time LPG was generally about 79c per litre where I lived - yet 200 km up the highway it was routinely 99 c per litre. This was also when petrol was around $1.29 per litre. So depending on where you refuel and how prices pan out in the long run, it may not work out quite as well as the example you've given.

    Also, as others have alluded to already, the demand for LPG has definitely dropped off. We no longer have 6 cylinder sedans (Camry aside - but with the hybrid option available, why would you bother with LPG?) and, aside from the Nissan Patrol and Havals, no longer have petrol 4WDs. There's very few cars sold new that would warrant a LPG conversion, so as demand for LPG drops, I would expect the price to increase.

  • tunzafun001 on 05/10/2018 - 00:37
    +1

    I've had a BA falcon, and now a VX commodore both factory gas. Loved both of them. Saved an absolute packet over 10 yrs.

    Just bought my first EV, but not sure what to do with the wagon. I bought it with 320 000 kms, for $2000. Done another 200 000 km since with it! probably will convert to a camper and keep. Haven't spent a cent other than oil,Coolant,auto fluid,plugs,leads, tyres.

    This is the KEY!

    People always talk about back firing blah blah. It back fires because some lazy sod doesnt put back the ignition leads properly in its conduit and in the clips. Leads then degrade over time and short causing wrong cylinder to fire / short to the engine itself.

    Would I pay for an lpg system now. No.

    Would I buy a car with it on there already. For sure.

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