Why do people touch off with their Myki when not forced to?

Lymerej on 06/09/2018 - 19:59
Last edited 06/09/2018 - 21:57

Hi all

I have a gripe with my fellow Melbourne train commuters. For those that get off at suburban train stations with no gates, why do you insist in touching off after getting of a train? I'll explain…

Background
Traveling in Melbourne metro has 2 zones.

Zone 1 only @ $8.60 daily (most expensive)
Zone 1+2 price are exactly the sane @ $8.60 daily
Zone 2 fare is cheaper @ $5.88
https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/fares/metropolitan-fares/

Default fare if you don't touch off is a zone 1+2 fare (the most expensive)

With myki passes zone 1+2 it does not charge you myki money. Verified over the 2 or so years I've been doing it.

I travel to the cbd and and back home. When they introduced myki they had separate fares for Z1 and 1+2 (default), but it caused tones of issues on trams and buses… Incorrect charges… so they go rid of price differences

These days though I see nearly everyone who gets off at my station touch off if there is no boom gates. So my question WHY?

My station has a small exit only allows 2 ppl through at a time. And I'm stuck behind these idiots who are determined to touch off.

This is TIME SAVING people..so why bother…yes yes not $ saving like a Ozbargainer..I know… But still

Rant over

EDIT: sorry if I sound like an idiot. Stuck in the rain waiting for these people to touch off makes you fume

Poll Options

  • 36
    I don't touch of if not forced to (those damn boom gates)
  • 2
    I travel zone 2 only (fair enough it's cheaper)
  • 15
    I love touching off to check my balance EVERY TIME (what?)
  • 1
    I thought I'd be charged default fare which is the same as zone 1 (aka idiot)
  • 2
    You should read the T&C of myki (in breach of nothing)
  • 6
    Other (explain in comments)
Travel MYKI Transport

Comments

  • MaKa on 06/09/2018 - 20:01
    +1

    I prefer to touch off every time so that I know where my balance is. That what I know when to recharge using the online system (as it takes up to 90 minutes) so I don't have to wait at the myki recharge machines at the station. No I don't want to autoload my myki as I prefer to initiate this sort of transaction myself.

  • mysterytal on 06/09/2018 - 20:02
    +5

    Touch off every time. It shows in the online travel history better and the balance is up to date. I keep a low balance so touching off can show if I have a negative balance which may require a top up before I travel again.

    • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:46

      Why not just set an auto topup and never worry about balance again?

      • mysterytal on 07/09/2018 - 11:01
        +5

        I do not like giving any organisation free access to my bank account.

        I prefer to make manual payments.

        I'm scared if I lose my card someone can use it to travel anywhere they like at my expense until I discover it's loss and report it lost.

        I don't want to risk losing a high balance.

        I use the Myki top-up machines to meet my ING requirement to make 5 transactions per month to qualify for bonus interest.

  • RyanMK on 06/09/2018 - 20:06
    +4

    I barely take public transport (perks of living near work), but when I do, I always tap off. As those above has mentioned, it reflects your online travel history and your balance much better. It is my understanding that if you don't tap off, the balance is only deducted the next time you tap on (correct me if I'm wrong though).

    • ymerej on 06/09/2018 - 20:13

      Yes, that's right it does the travel history after a few days if not touched off.

  • kikxz on 06/09/2018 - 20:14
    +2

    I hardly touch off, unless I'm forced to. Perks of using a 'pass' I guess in which case your not charged anything

  • Godric on 06/09/2018 - 20:19
    +1

    As i use a pass if there's an open gate i'll walk through, if no gate no tap off @ all

  • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 06/09/2018 - 20:19
    +2

    OP is taking the myki…

  • [Deactivated] on 06/09/2018 - 20:34
    +2

    People just love to slow others down and piss them off on purpose.

    That is why I do it, because I know if annoys people like you.
    jks, I aint got time for that. Don't touch off if I don't have to or if already hit daily cap so default fare won't change anything.

    • ymerej on 06/09/2018 - 20:36

      Hahaha thanks :P. Its a first world problem

  • WreckTangle on 06/09/2018 - 20:46

    Cos if you don’t tap off they’ll think you went to Geelong or Ballarat or Seymour and it will cost you more than 2 Zones

    • JIMB0 on 06/09/2018 - 21:27

      Only if your myki has been scanned on a vline train or at a vline only station.

      • WreckTangle on 07/09/2018 - 07:35

        Its only got to be a vline station - the myki readers are the same, and there are dozens of these stations across Melbourne

        • JIMB0 on 07/09/2018 - 10:47

          Would it still charge vline rates if you touched on at metro/vline station? Ie. Southern Cross, Pakenham etc.

  • tumsum on 06/09/2018 - 20:53
    +1

    default fare is the furthest you can travel on that route for a single ticket (ie. not the full day). so most of the time in the metro its zones 1 and 2. however say you take v/line and you didnt touch off successfully, then you could be paying for many more zones.

    • ymerej on 06/09/2018 - 21:22

      Yea of course. Vline different story…

  • tumsum on 06/09/2018 - 20:57
    +2

    You should read the T&C of myki (in breach of nothing)

    from the Victorian Fares and Ticketing Manual, it is a requirement to touch off

    "A myki must be touched on and touched off.."
    pg 60

    • ymerej on 06/09/2018 - 21:21

      Thanks for looking that up! I thought as much! But I didn't think anyone would have made this the reason… And they probably put that in the to cover there butt in case there was a glitch with the default fare. Would the ticket inspector fine you? I have walked right past pso… They don't care

      • neil on 06/09/2018 - 21:47
        +1

        Would the ticket inspector fine you?

        No, as long as you have a valid Myki (e.g. touched on and within 2 hour/1 day etc.) you won't get ticketed.

      • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:29
        +1

        I have also spoken to "Authorised Officers" about this and they confirmed they would not issue a ticket. They did however say that it is a requirement to touch off so they can get usage data for services/stations. People that block the exit touching off piss me off everyday.

    • ToxicPhatGrunt on 07/09/2018 - 11:50

      Why do trams specifically have stickers stating that you don't have to touch off? This goes against their own manual lol

  • neil on 06/09/2018 - 21:07
    +7

    The Victorian ticketing system is convoluted so it's no surprise.

    • No temporary paper tickets for tourists, have to get a non-refundable Myki.
    • A two hour ticket used to be 2 hours + a rounding to the hour. e.g. 1:45PM would be valid until 4. A 2:01PM would be valid until 5. Now it's exactly 2 hours but you used to have people wait until after the hour to validate in a tram or wait to go through the train turnstile.
    • A two hour ticket after 6PM turns into a daily (e.g. until 3AM).
    • You are supposed to validate when you get onto every tram but it's not an offence as long as you carry a validated Myki (e.g. you validated before).

    Meanwhile you are supposed to tap on / tap off for trains but then told not to tap on / tap off for trams, buses. It's fine once you are used to the system but for those who are new to the system or infrequent PT users, then it's difficult remembering all the rules.

    Relevant Picture

  • JIMB0 on 06/09/2018 - 21:29
    +1

    They want people to tap their myki so they get usage statistics. If no one tapped off at your station they may consider reducing services to it.

    • Bren20 on 06/09/2018 - 22:37
      +1

      that's a fair reach to say a station would be closed due to a low touch off rate

      I'm a transport planner, i have used myki data occasionally - capture rates are better in the AM as people have to touch on. I love people who touch off, it gives me good data!!

      Having said that, i do get irrationally frustrated at the long queues of people touching off when they don't have to! That and people standing around at the exit of an escalator, my two most hated transport faux pas.

      • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:38
        +1

        i do get irrationally frustrated at the long queues

        Thats not irrational its a completely valid response to the ridiculousness of the situation. Surely the usage data could be captured from CCTV or sensors rather than by making every person waste 2-3 seconds at the exit each day?

      • altomic on 07/09/2018 - 08:43

        Reduced services. reduced

        • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:44

          PTV does formal load surveys twice a year to officially measure patronage so the myki data is not as important as implied above

        • Bren20 on 07/09/2018 - 13:00

          yeah, don't know how i missed that. My point still stands though

        • Bren20 on 07/09/2018 - 13:01

          @stirlo:
          Mu understanding of load surveys are that they are more focussed on how full the trains are, rather than the boardings/departures at each stop

  • brian77 on 06/09/2018 - 21:33
    +2

    As a student I used to purchase monthly tickets on my myki. Once I didn’t touch off (because my ticket was already validated) I was pulled over my two PSOs who asked many questions. Since then, I’ve just always touched off.

    In high school, someone from Yarra trams once told us that we should always validate our tickets (back in the paper ticket days) even if our yearly/monthly tickets were already validated because it gave Yarra trams a better indication of passenger volumes. Since most of us did NOT validate our already validated yearly/monthly tickets on trams, it made it seem like few passengers were taking trams when in fact they were filled to the brink. Because of this, I always touched on/off trams

    • El Grande on 06/09/2018 - 21:59
      +4

      This. They use the data to set the frequency of service. Touching on and off is good.

      I was told by Yarra Trams guy that they only get paid if you touch on. So if you take a train from the station metro gets paid. If you take a tram and/or a bus once in the city and don't validate they won't get anything from your ticket. This would result in poorer service (lower frequency) and Poorer service.

  • El Grande on 06/09/2018 - 21:53

    I don't touch off coming from the city thinking I would get charged for Zone 1 only. Good to know that default is Zone 1+2 if touching on in Zone 1 and not touching off.

  • Sage on 06/09/2018 - 22:13

    Does it work if you don't touch off? How does it know what to charge you for? For example if you don't touch off on the way home on Friday and then next time the card is used is on the Monday, would it charge you for weekend?

    Anyway, 2 solid reasons to touch off when "not needed".
    1. So it charges the correct amount. Touching on and off within 2 hours for the day is a lower fare.
    2. So it actually works when touching on. I've had it not let me in because I only touched on and not off. Buses and train gates get confused when the ticket is already in a touched on status.

    It really doesn't take long to touch off. I do it while walking and only need to slow down my pace a little.
    Though I've noticed some station's machines aren't as quick as newer ones, and mine for example has way more than 2 to use.

    • ymerej on 07/09/2018 - 05:46

      For the first part. This was true when myki first rolled out. Note even for 2hr it can't charge you more unless you only traveled in zone 2

      Second point. Sounds like a defect on myki if you cannot get in. It always says for me "touch on successful default fare charge xxx" when you do the maths it always works out the daily fare. My partner first said "why is it charging me on touch on" but we put logic together and it was correct.

      Another point. If you touch on and go into negative during the trip you are allowed, if you are transferring to another train then you are better off not touching off and touching on because it won't let you touch on again. However, ok buses it's a bit hard, trams not sure what the tram ticket inspector would say.

  • bigticket on 06/09/2018 - 23:57
    +1

    I don't get why some people are touching off to check their balance. Presumably a balance is displayed touching on? Short memory?

    • ymerej on 07/09/2018 - 05:52

      Hehe my cheeky (what?). I noticed for me it shows up really quickly and your don't get a chance to look at balance even if you hold it there. Might be just me. And maybe for the better accurate journey logging… I have a personal myki and don't really want the government / government vendor of the day having more information then they need… That's weighed with the ability to get credit and passes transferred if you lose it

  • John Kimble on 07/09/2018 - 06:47
    +3

    Buy an umbrella

  • original15 on 07/09/2018 - 06:53
    +1

    100% agree
    Unless it’s people only copping 2hr fares (can you still get in super early for free?)
    Hate that people think you need to touch off

    Also wish with a yearly Myki you didn’t have to touch on or off, after all you pay for the days regardless, but suppose that’s asking a bit much lol

  • Detective Pikachu on 07/09/2018 - 07:09

    As someone that has never used the Victorian Public Transport system and just simply following the Myki How To Guide:

    • Touch on to ensure you have a valid ticket.
    • Touch off to pay the lowest fare.

    I'd just assume to have a cheaper/safer than expensive/sorry mentality (fare/penalty), by doing both steps and/or follow what other's are doing for the same reason they are mentality.

    Considering this discussion, I'm grateful SA's public transport system is more straight forward (Only need to make sure you validate the ticket/card for the trip).

    • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:34

      "Touch off to pay the lowest fare." only applies in very limited circumstances after ticketing changes a few year ago. I see hundreds of commuters at my station everyday that touch off when they have already paid the maximum fare (90+% of trips would incur it, every single person travelling to the city does) blocking up the exits, the only value is in the usage data for PTV. With the amount of crowding at exits touching off makes no sense.

      I think I might print up some guerrilla marketing posters explaining as much and put them at my local station. Anyone want to design one for me?

  • bremo on 07/09/2018 - 08:36

    I am a daily PT user and use myki money and tap off. I wasn’t aware I didn’t need to tap off, I wasn’t aware that zone 1 and zone 1+2 are the same price (I live in zone 1 and have about 4739 other more important things on my mind).

    So, OP, THANK YOU for the information.
    A+ for being informative.
    F for delivery (overuse of the word idiot).

    • bremo on 07/09/2018 - 08:39

      Further delving into the mind of an idiot… there is some kind of herd mentality when I see so many other people (idiots) tapping off, I assume that I must tap off too. Monkey see, monkey do. I now consider myself amongst the enlightened few. Thank you OP.

  • stirlo on 07/09/2018 - 08:43
    +1

    There is one slight flaw to not touching off that applies in very limited situations.

    If you leave a station without touching off and need to re enter a station with barriers on the same day then you will be denied as you have "already touched on" This does not apply if there are no barriers (you just walk though) or if you take a different mode of transport (bus/tram) and the touch on status resets at 3am so you can touch on again the next day without issue.

    If you are making your last train journey for the day then you do not need to touch off if you traveled anywhere in zone 1.

  • heysoph9 on 08/09/2018 - 07:32

    Reasons I touch off:
    - thought the default fare was a daily so I always touch off so that I get the charge of what I actually used.
    - I usually get onto another train or tram right away which requires me to touch back on, so I touch off so I don't risk confusing the system.
    - theres something nice about the completeness of touching on and off. I don't like leaving open ends.

  • Melb69 on 08/09/2018 - 15:32

    When I use my card for train trips its usually for work. Use at 7.30am and leave at 5.30pm. Essentially I only ever touch on to record the trip. I asked the ticket seller once. After explaining my case in the end she said I had to tap off. So her argument then suggested to me I didn't need to tap off. I do notice however that the next day if I use the card again it takes longer. The card then registers oh you've now completed your trip from yesterday, and now starting a new trip.

    Always ensure the card reader records its accepted your card as tapped on.

    So you might save time by not having to tap off at end of trip, but it does take a bit longer on the first trip as card needs to be updated. I reckon though I do save mucking around not having to wait to get to the card reader at ends of trips which is with a lot of others getting off at same time. If you do have to tap off go around the outside reader it there is one as it may be longer in distance, but easier to get to.

    If you are on a short trip then I can understand you don't want to be charged the full days fare. If its full day then don't worry about tapping off in my opinion.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/09/2018 - 21:00

    Back when I was living in Regional Victoria, I missed a train because of the extra delay calculating the fare from the previous trip (touch off) as I was touching on. Next one was one hour later :(

    Since then I always touch off to avoid similar situations.

  • Plug on 09/09/2018 - 02:24

    When I visited Melbourne first time around I was told I had to touch on and off so that's what I've always done.

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