iTunes Alternative: 9c a song. Legalsounds.

mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 14:13
Last edited 21/02/2011 - 16:48 by 1 other user

"Apple using 'market power' to gouge Aussie iTunes users."

Choice has chastised Apple over its Australian iTunes Store pricing revealing Australians pay almost 50 per cent more than Americans.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/apple-u…

Apple have never responded to my requests for an explanation so now I'm thinking of using legalsounds to supplement my CD and iTunes collection. Its a great collection but not as large as iTunes of course (& if you cant get anything you can still use iTunes) and low on "non pop-rock" stuff. A friend has downloaded 916 tracks for $65 over several years; Apples 30% take ALONE would have been over $450 on those tracks for which they would charge over $1,500 MORE and the songs are over 99.5% reliable (eg. not rerecorded or live versions in place of original recordings).

Its only 9c a track now (less with any bonuses) … they say its legal* … my friend has been using it, without any problems, for years.

I'm concerned about artists royalties but only a tiny amount of what I've paid iTunes has ended up in upcoming artists pockets they tell me. Record companies, artists and managers and other 'middle men' have been infamous for decades for ripping off artists unmercifully whenever they could. I pay for CDs and support artists live and with direct purchases & I'd happily pay a royalty via the download website … and if after over 12 billion downloads iTunes charge Aussies similar prices as Americans for music I'll resume my purchases.

On the other hand, what do you think? Do you know a better site that pays artists decent royalties? Or do you think its a good thing to pay 50% more for your music with only a tiny, tiny fraction of the price going to the artist.

*Google "legalsounds" for plenty of info over the years.

"Review": http://www.mp3obsession.com/reviews/legalsounds/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Organization_for_Multim…

Take the music and set it free!

Internet

Comments

  • diamondtouch1 on 21/02/2011 - 14:17
    +4

    hooray for standing up to the apple!

  • leeroys_dad on 21/02/2011 - 14:28
    +1

    "Its only 9c a track now (less with any bonuses) … they say its legal* … my friend has been using it, without any problems, for years."

    How you've used the asterisk looks very, very dodgy…

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 14:39

      "*Google “legalsounds” for plenty of info over the years." and make your own mind up. (Its legal under Russian law; I'm no lawyer, let alone a copyright lawyer - but I have been told copyright law protects the 'middle men' much more than the artists.)

      DODGY better describes Apple charging some customers 50% more because they live in Australia, and because they can.

      "my friend has been using it, without any problems, for years" refers to the quality of the songs and security, not the legality.

      • Pobman on 21/02/2011 - 15:27

        When i lived in Russia we used a similar service called allofmp3.com (this is a good 7 year ago now so sorry if I have got the name wrong). They relied on the fact back then you could not hold copyright on digital media in Russia.

        As far as I know this has now changed… But then again in Russia what is legal is not always what is really legal…

  • camMMM on 21/02/2011 - 14:53

    do the songs work in itunes?

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 14:55

      Yes … totally compatible eg. itunes will add in the artwork if missing.

  • UFO on 21/02/2011 - 15:02
    +1

    their legal info:

    Legal Info

    All the materials in the LegalSounds.com music service are available for distribution via Internet according to license ЛС-3М-05-09 of the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society. Under the license agreement, Legalsounds.com pays license fees for all the materials subject to the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights". All the materials are available solely for personal use. Further distribution, resale or broadcasting is prohibited.

    We have direct contracts with folowing copyrights holders:

    • Ik Music

    All copyrights in and to the Service, including but not limited to, the LegalSounds.com music service (including LegalSounds logo, graphics, the compilation of content, postings, links to other Internet resources, and descriptions of those resources), and software, are owned by LegalMedia.

    hahahahahahahahahah wtf!

    Well…. as long as the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society says its ok, it must be ;).

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 15:07

      … and does anyone think its OK for Apple to charge Australians 50% more than their US customers (or 1800% more than legalsounds)?

      ;)

      • ThinkDave on 21/02/2011 - 16:39

        I think you will find its not Apple setting the price but the local copyright holders themselves (Sony, EMI etc..) that have negotiated the prices higher than the US due to market costs.

        • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 17:07

          ALL those companies may be getting their little extra out of Australia, but Choice certainly think Apple are one of them.

          Generalising, the Australian consumer has been regarded as a soft touch for many decades by the overseas-owned multinationals.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 17:30

          Again - you have no idea who is really doing the gouging here. Is it Apple or is it the music companies.

          Take an App from the Apple store in the US for an iPhone/iPad

          Angry Birds

          US price is 99c
          Australian price is $1.19

          Australian price includes GST 10%

          So at parity it should be $1.09

          I bought eyeTV for the ipad at $A5.99 when US price was $4.99 and Aussie Dollar was 90c so it was close to equal at that price.

          So the music is a higher difference. Same for Audiobooks and REGULAR books - see a trend here….

  • BenMHarvey on 21/02/2011 - 15:10
    +1

    Isn't that the normal price?

  • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 15:12

    Indeed :)

  • Lukian on 21/02/2011 - 15:13
    +1

    9 cents? That's about what it costs to download a song over 3G. ;)

  • kowcop on 21/02/2011 - 15:13
    +1

    doesn't sound any different from allofmp3.. They are not paying the royalties like other legal music services would, they pay according to Russian law

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 15:16

      … and they are not making massive profits for themselves by milking Australian customers either.

      • voter1 on 21/02/2011 - 15:28
        +3

        but whats the point when the artist is getting ZERO money - you may as well just pirate it.

        • Gaz1 on 21/02/2011 - 15:44

          … it seems that's effectively what you are doing with legalsounds. Paying to download a copy of a song from a place that appears to deem it legal & where nothing goes back to the artist or record company. Perhaps you might have a problem with Apple Australia chanrging more for iTunes here that in the US, but I don't think this is the answer.

        • sparkles on 21/02/2011 - 16:06

          Yes, this is just an easier way to pirate a song. You are just paying some Russian to steal it for you.

      • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:25

        so what do you guys recommend as a better alternative?

        • ThinkDave on 21/02/2011 - 16:46
          +1

          iTunes, BigPond music, Sony's new online store. You know the ones who actually pay the artist the royalties that they are entitled to.

          What you are suggesting is that you pay a Russian company to steal music for you? If your going down that path you might as well pirate it yourself none of the money makes it to the artist either way. I'm no lawyer but I'd say the legality of purchasing from this site in Australia would be dicey at best. It's the same as buying DVD's in Bali or Thailand from the Markets and deluding yourself that it is a legal purchase.

  • andy19363 on 21/02/2011 - 15:22
    +1

    Just for info….

    The minimum top up to your account is $25.00

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 15:27

      Thanks … my friend put in $100 a few years ago … got a $18 "bonus" - and still has $35 in the account - 916 songs later :)

  • Scratch2k on 21/02/2011 - 15:42

    There seem to be a lot of full tracks available for $0, what's the artists cut of that?

    As much of a bargain this seems I can't in good conscience give this a +, the chances of the artists getting any royalties from this site is zero and in addition to that, the chances of the Russian mob using my credit card details to buy a hovercraft are probably pretty high too.

    Avoid.

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:02

      You get free tracks on Apple too … and I heard an artist last week sarcastically thanking Apple for telling her.

      I am concerned about royalties but neither do I want to be the victim of a scam from Apple.

      My friend has been on the site 3 years and has had no problems with his credit card … nor have I seen a single report of a problem with credit cards and the site.

  • Xert on 21/02/2011 - 15:45

    It's a fair bet that artists get nothing from this site. This being the case, this site is ripping off artists more than iTunes and therefore it is not a 'bargain' but 'stealing'. Please don't recommend websites that are dodgy and then try and sell it as being morally better. Recommending this site is no better than recommending a bargain on eBay.

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 15:57

      The "site is ripping artists off more than iTunes", but iTunes is ripping off the Australian customer as well.

      What do you recommend?

      • sparkles on 21/02/2011 - 16:10
        +3

        Listen to the radio.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 16:23

          ROFL - how old age!!!!

  • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 15:59
    +2

    • There's nothing new about this site (there are countless others), nor do I think it should be considered a bargain since the prices are their normal prices. More appropriate for the forums (search reveals that this site has already been mentioned in the forums), I think.

    • Artists get nothing from this site because copyright holders refuse to accept money from the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society. There's no difference between this site and pirating the music in terms of supporting the artist.

    • This site is "legal" in Russia insofar as it hasn't been ruled illegal by Russian courts. A previous site (allofmp3.com) operating on the same model was shut down after pressure by the Russian government. The legality of this site is ambiguous in Australia.

    • Apple aren't blameless, but surely some of the blame needs to be levelled at the local recording industry and regional restrictions? Apple doesn't set pricing all by themselves; the prices are negotiated with the local arms of labels (including the majors like EMI, Universal, Warner and Sony). Apple doesn't have the ability to sell music globally at a single price because the record industry wants to protect their system of differential pricing for different markets. Music from other Australia online stores and physical retailers is also significantly more expensive than the US, not just iTunes.

    • Going forward, my hope is that entire record industry as it stands collapses and a new model for distributing music emerges from the ashes; a new model that is fairer for both artists and listeners.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 16:05

      Jump22 is so correct. Plus this is a forum topic as it the normal price for this site and the legality of this is sooo suspect.

      And while you dont like Apple overcharging - who does. Are we really to believe that they get 1.00 of the music sale vs the 9c that an artist makes? (if this site is truly legal) So if this is legal I'll make an apology for moving, but my guess its not really as the Maths don't add up.

      Being a Russian site how do you really know your credit card details are safe.

      And as Jump22 says the Australian price is set in conjunction with the music houses, just like the book publishers require we pay more here than from OS, so dont be coloured by the general anti apple rhethoric. BTW with Itunes cards you can get a 20% discount if you buy well. That discount comes off the Apple 30% margin not the royalties. And there's the GST that has to be applied and retailer margins on iTunes cards. As for the SMH article - read its by Asher Moses - look at all his other articles to see where he's coming from. He's the one mainly pushing this barrow. BTW you can always save a bundle by buying from a Music store - that cuts Apple out…

      Hard to find discounted iTunes cards in the US. (If you do that would be a good post here)

      • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:10

        I was going to put it in the forum … but then I thought:

        a) well IT IS A BARGAIN imho (& I see a lot of OzBargainers agreed before they were censored out) (& I didn't know if it complied with OzB's definition); and

        b) not as many people would see it there - and thus miss the bargain.

        "how do you really know your credit card details are safe" based on the facts that my friend has had no problem in 3 years with the site … and I haven't seen a single report of problems, and they have been going for years.

        On the other hand, I HAVE experienced three overcharges on my iTunes account (for apps, which have been credited subsequently after I chased them up - but that didn't stop me using iTunes).

        • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 16:21

          I am not going to debate with you.

          As you yourself say you were going to put it in the forum. Next time why not check with the mods first in talk to a mod forum.

          This site isn't a spot to run a personal vendetta against any company under the guise of another bargain. You know, I know its not a bargain. At best it takes advantage of loopholes in another country's laws. And even that's not clear it isn't.

          Read Jump22's post that's a rational explanation. You pretend to be in the favour of the artists when you even admit they wont get a cent from this. Now that's not to say what you or I decide to do personally. Its just not appropriate under the rules of this site.

          Even this as a forum topic is suss, and I will rely on the other mods opinions whether this stays

        • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:51

          Theres no personal vendetta against a company here … Other than this single thread, ALL of my posts about Apple, and there have been relatively many have been very praiseworthy of Apple.

          In this thread I was agreeing with the leading consumer organisation Choice which reported today that Apple's iTunes was "gouging Australian consumers".

          The argument about royalties is sometimes used by big multinationals with little more relevance to their prices as the long running campaign we had to watch everytime we bought a DVD that wanted you to believe that if you bought pirate movies you were helping terrorists!

    • voter1 on 21/02/2011 - 16:16
      +2

      there is a new model - NIN did it. Radiohead did it and are doing it again. Buy direct - 100% of money goes to the artist. (they pay their own staff/production costs)

      • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:18

        Good one

      • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 16:37

        Yup, but major bands doing that are the exception rather than the rule at the moment. Let's hope more follow their example! :)

    • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:40

      I agree generally with most of your points … and everytime someone buys from iTunes - as opposed to legalsounds ;) - it helps preserve the current model.

      But in normal language, not OzBargain jargon, imho when someone learns they can buy something for 9cents which they would normally pay $1.69 for, IT IS A BARGAIN - it doesn't make it not a bargain because they have charged that price for years (in fact it became MORE of a bargain when Apple increased their prices and they didn't :)

      As a relatvely new member I am sure there are good reasons for using the definition and I love the site.

      • llama on 21/02/2011 - 17:26
        +2

        But I can give you links where you can get ANY of those songs for free. That means that my "bargain" is 9c better than this (so-called) bargain.

        I'll even tell you that my bargain is legal, if that turns you on. Mine is no more legal than the Russian place, and sends exactly the same $$ to the artists (nil)… but let's not get hung up on details, huh?

        Agreeing that this is a bargain is like saying that shoplifting is a bargain because it's getting stuff sheaper that you can normally buy in evil corporations like Coles Myer, etc. In this case, it's not quite shoplifting, but it's more like paying a shoplifter a nominal fee for stealing on your behalf.

        So, this is NOT A BARGAIN

  • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 16:41

    Thanks EVERYONE for your feedback (I don't think I can add anymore so I'll leave any further comments to others).

  • Evil-Elmo on 21/02/2011 - 17:57

    You may as well pirate and save yourself the 9c:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protec…

  • mxyzptik on 21/02/2011 - 23:01
    +1

    Having reviewed the above and quickly browsed the web it seems that essentially:

    a) just 10% of the cost of a mainstream download or CD goes in royalties to the artists, plus 3% to the producer;

    b) music prices in Australia are very high compared to the rest of the world;

    c) there aren't any more-reasonably priced, royalty paying, alternatives (including those available elsewhere in the world) to the overcharging major players;

    d) no royalties from the Russian sites find their way to the artists.

    So, well-priced CDs may be where I get most of my music bargains from in the near future, unless I can create a US iTunes account and buy gift vouchers over the web so I don't have to pay the rip-off prices in the Australian iTunes store.

    • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2011 - 23:27
      +1

      I agree with all of your conclusions. Personally, I still buy plenty of CDs (and even some vinyl) since I often find they are cheaper than digital alternatives, particularly when you want a whole album. I also use a US iTunes account fairly regularly (I have a US bank account so I don't need to go down the gift voucher route). And of course, the best way to support a particular artist is to go to their shows. :)

    • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2011 - 11:01

      M… LOL, now you are getting it. Nothing like Mr Moses of the SMH who just has been beating up on his pet dislike Apple. Rather than being a true journalist and discovering where ALL the rip off's really lie.

      Number one rule of life, never trust the media, why is it that used car sales people, politicians and journalists rate so low on the public respect factor. Spin is a fancy 4 letter word for Lies

      Back on topic, also dont forget the music publishers have high costs like having to drugs/booze and hookers for the artists, that way they can control them better

      Only issue you have with US gift cards is they are very hard to find discounted. So with a 20% off discount with Australian cards the price difference is very small

      If you do find a good discount on these cards please post it here that would be well received

  • andy19363 on 22/02/2011 - 08:45

    Interesting….. this site has music that I have not been able to find anywhere else, (legally or otherwise - including cd). Not $25 worth though, unfortunately….

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