Used Hybrid Car Better than Petrol?

CheapSticks on 19/08/2018 - 12:04
Last edited 19/08/2018 - 15:48 by 1 other user

Hi Guys

Thinking of buy a car in near term and want to start looking.

Currently have Camry - had it for 15 years and did 100k only. Time for change now. Would prefer small SUV or medium size dean (not as big as camry) as wife is the primary driver and she thinks Camry is way too long.

Given almost every manufacture is going hybrid or EV way. Is it better to buy a hybrid as in some years petrol only cars would be less desired. If we were driving more - going hybrid would be a no brainer. But given we are not, wondering if i should consider hybrid? That does reduces option set a lot.

Plus I am not sure of battery maintenance costs as the car gets older? We had no issue with our Camry at all.

Automotive

Comments

  • JIMB0 on 19/08/2018 - 12:23

    Looking at the Toyota hybrid cars they have eliminated the starter motor and alternator. The water pump and air-conditioning are electric. This means there is no drive belt on the engine to worry about. You can sit in the car with air-con running without the motor constantly going.

    If you need to move the car you can do it under electric power so no need to run a cold engine for just a few minutes before shutting it down.

    • trienchieu12 on 19/08/2018 - 12:38
      +1

      The main concern of OP is the battery when switching to hybrid

  • whooah1979 on 19/08/2018 - 12:36
    +1

    Is it better to buy a hybrid as in some years petrol only cars wud be less desired.

    perhaps in the eu, not here. hybrids have been sold in australia for a long time now with a small share of the sales.

    still with a camry and you can't go wrong.

    • spackbace on 19/08/2018 - 20:24

      Every manufacturer is making emissions targets, which will mean either hybrid or ev have to get more prevalent.

      In 5yrs time the market share of hybrids will be a lot greater

      • Diji1 on 19/08/2018 - 21:27
        +1

        Every manufacturer is making emissions targets

        Of course, just look at VW and their sterling work in this area!

      • CheapSticks on 20/08/2018 - 22:06

        I agree mate. Number of manufacturers are now coming up with stated target of green sales - like Volvo for example !

  • Melb69 on 19/08/2018 - 12:36
    +1

    Going the hydrid makes sense. Not sure about the current pricing. Pirus maybe the best option from what your suggesting. Petrol will still be around for year to come, so still the cheapest option for upfront cost for now.

  • Euphemistic on 19/08/2018 - 15:55

    How long do you think you’ll keep it? Consider the battery life.

    • Euphemistic on 19/08/2018 - 19:15
      +2

      Not sure why negged. If the op considers that they would keep the car for 15 years again, then the petrol is a better option. The hybrid battery is likely to need replacing well before the 15year mark. If the OP is considering they would replace the next car sooner, like 5 years, then the equation leans toward working out on fuel economy - although the resale value on a hybrid of that age might be lower than that of a petrol model.

      Having said that, the next 5–10years will see some changes in the market for petrol only cars as hybrid or full electric vehicles become more mainstream.

      • CheapSticks on 20/08/2018 - 22:10

        If the OP is considering they would replace the next car sooner, like 5 years, then the equation leans toward working out on fuel economy - although the resale value on a hybrid of that age might be lower than that of a petrol model.

        I do intend to keep the car for 10-15 yrs but I am certainly not clear if resale value on hybrid be lower that of petrol? If hybrid does become mainstream - shudnt there be a premium reflected in resale as well?

        • Euphemistic on 20/08/2018 - 23:00

          The price of battery replacement may need to be taken into account. If the batteries are dead or dying or even just old, the resale will probably be a lot lower.

  • Micko179 on 19/08/2018 - 16:10
    +1

    Wud, shud, cud

  • CMH on 19/08/2018 - 16:54
    +2

    You had a Camry for 15 years and only did 100,000km.

    How much are you expecting to save on petrol with the amount of driving you're doing?

    If the hybrid costs as much as a petrol car, sure, go for it. But if it costs more, then the amount you're going to save in petrol by going hybrid will most probably NOT cover the extra you're paying.

    Just stick with a petrol car.

    • JimmyF on 19/08/2018 - 18:07
      +4

      Just stick with a petrol car.

      Why?

      Camry in the city is around 12l/100km, hybrid version is 6l/100km. So thats a 6l saving per 100kms, 60l per 1000km, and 6000l saving for the OPs 100k.

      So 6000l @ 1.40l, is $8400 saving, or at $2/k its $12k saving, plus in VIC hybrids get $100 a year off the rego, so after 10 years, thats another $1k saving.

      So yeah lets call it at least $10k saving over 10 years with the rate petrol is going up.

      Seems a pretty easy choice to me.

      • JIMB0 on 19/08/2018 - 19:21
        +1

        Plus the hybrid has more power than the standard 4 cylinder.

        • JimmyF on 19/08/2018 - 19:26
          +4

          Yes it is more powerful than the 4cyc petrol.

          I'm on my 2nd hybrid with 110k on the clock (hybrid camry), so the figures above are my averages compared to someone with a petrol camry in the city.

          I get between 5-7l/100km in the city depending on if its short cycles or not. Highway is flat 6l/100km. So pretty safe to say 6l/100 is what I see over the tank.

          I've clocked up 270k in hybrids now and not a single hybrid related fault, and the battery was still strong after 160k in my last one. I only sold it as I wanted a newer car.

          Sadly after driving a hybrid and the cheap fuel costs, all other cars looked like fuel pigs, so I went the camry hybrid. Its been A1, not a single warranty issue other than a few globes needing replacing (myself).

          I should add above that after 160k the brake pads hadn't been replaced and had about 60-70% left on them, so basically pads are good for the life of the car. This one is showing the same.

        • Expie on 20/08/2018 - 09:54

          @JimmyF: OP is specifically NOT looking at another gas guzzling Camry. Comparing the fuel economy and power figures of the various 2018 Corolla models tells a very different story.

        • JimmyF on 20/08/2018 - 09:58

          @Expie: This isn't America, we don't use GAS here. The hybrid camry isn't a 'guzzling' camry like the OP might have now. The latest one is 4.2l/100 published usage (my figures above are real life usage for a 5 year old model)

        • littleV on 20/08/2018 - 17:21
          +1

          @JimmyF:

          Totally agree. I am driving the same car with 1 tank petrol runs 1000km.

        • CheapSticks on 20/08/2018 - 22:13
          +1

          @JimmyF:

          Interesting on brake pads - i was thinking that it will use less brake pads n less rotor issues as it effectively is charging on braking…but one brake pad in 160k - that is stellar !!

      • CMH on 20/08/2018 - 00:47

        Fuel economy of the latest V6 Camry is 8.9L (according to Toyota). Nowhere near your 12L. 4-pot economy is lower at 7.8L.

        Recalculating your best case scenario
        8.9L - 6L = 2.9L
        100,000km x 2.9L/100km = 2,900L
        2,900L x $1.40/L = $4,060
        Total Savings = $5,060

        That's how much cheaper the V6 has to be vs the hybrid before it breaks even. Numbers based off JimmyF's post.

        Now, if you went for 4-cylinder Camry, re-doing the numbers exactly as above comes to a total savings of $3,520 for going hybrid vs 4-cylinder Camry.

        To save this amount takes 10 years of owning the car (for OP's driving).

        • Ash SA on 20/08/2018 - 09:44
          +1

          V in a V6 stands for VERY thristy (though zippy) and a usual consumption is around 11-12L/100km.

        • JimmyF on 20/08/2018 - 10:03
          +2

          Fuel economy of the latest V6 Camry is 8.9L (according to Toyota). Nowhere near your 12L. 4-pot economy is lower at 7.8L.

          Real life fuel usage vs tested lab figures are TWO different things. You normally add 20-30% on to the lab figure. So that would make it close to my figure quoted, I was quoting the older models as the OP didn't sound like they are buying brand new.

          The latest camry with the new auto etc has had a nice saving in fuel usage for sure over the older outgoing model.

          8.9L - 6L = 2.9L

          So you take the published fuel usage figure of the newest camry for the V6 and yet use my higher 5 year old hybrid real life hybrid usage figure? Why didn't you use the published hybrid fuel figure of 4.2l/100 like the 8.9l/100 figure you used?

          So Recalculating using EQUAL source for fuel figures/models gives
          8.9L - 4.2L = 4.7L
          100,000km x 2.9L/100km = 4,700L
          4,700L x $1.40/L = $6,580
          Rego savings (VIC) = $1,000
          Total Savings = $7,580

  • JimmyF on 19/08/2018 - 18:02
    +1

    Plus I am not sure of battery maintenance costs as the car gets older?

    Toyota offers 8 years straight up warranty for the hybrid drive train and battery. so that tells you something about what they think of it. Generally by the time the battery is stuffed, the car is 12-15yrs old anyhow and like your old car, ready for the junk heap.

    • CheapSticks on 19/08/2018 - 18:30
      +1

      ok thats good. Am thinking of buying 3-5yr used car so that shud be great assuming that warranty is meaningful

  • pao2x on 19/08/2018 - 18:29

    Regular camry rego in NSW 1155 to 1504kg $299 +$66
    Hybrid Camry regon in NSW 1505 to 2504kg $457 +$66

    One of the things that tilted me towards non hybrid camry 3 years ago given that I drive only around 5K km a year. If I drove 10K Km a year or more hybrid for sure.

    • CheapSticks on 19/08/2018 - 18:32
      -1

      Interesting - they shud be giving a discount for Hybrid and EVs

    • JimmyF on 19/08/2018 - 19:28
      +1

      interesting as in VIC they give you a flat $100 off, and the hybrid and non hybrid are the same price (before discount), so the hybrid is $100 cheaper in VIC

  • DarkOz on 19/08/2018 - 19:12

    The 2019 Toyota Corolla just came out and I think the hybrid version is the way to go. It's the next size down from Camry and much much cheaper than a Prius.

    The hybrid version is only slightly more than the petrol version and I reckon the hybrid Corolla will make the Prius redundant.

    Don't even think about EV because it's a long way off.

    • JimmyF on 19/08/2018 - 19:30
      -1

      I reckon the hybrid Corolla will make the Prius redundant.

      Different markets. The prius will always be more costly as its got more toys. Prius means "future" in Japanese. So it gets the toys first.

      • Diji on 20/08/2018 - 09:34
        +1

        Prius is Latin for "first".

      • ThirdRonnie on 20/08/2018 - 12:06
        +1

        Prius means "future" in Japanese

        The Japanese word for "future" is 未来, pronounced "Mirai", which is the name of Toyota's hydrogen car.

    • spackbace on 19/08/2018 - 20:26
      +1

      Prius is already almost redundant. Most dealers here don't stock them and we instead lean towards other hybrids

    • Diji1 on 19/08/2018 - 21:29

      Don't even think about EV because it's a long way off.

      Surely that depends on your driving requirements.

      • DarkOz on 19/08/2018 - 21:40
        +2

        If you want an EV only for your local corner shop milk run yeah it's very suitable.

  • affable on 20/08/2018 - 14:08

    Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV sounds like its going to be a bit big for you? They are excellent value 2nd hand, one going for $26k on carsales right now, and the Aspire model is quite luxurious with adaptive cruise, climate control, leather heated seats etc.
    50km EV range, then engine kicks in so you can still drive unlimited distances, best of both worlds.
    If you can charge the PHEV on offpeak power and 80% of your daily distances are <50km, you can save up to $10,000 or even more per 100,000km (off-peak power vs fuel).

    A hybrid that you can't plug in is one that only benefits the stealership and petrol stations, not the driver.

    • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 17:24
      -1

      A hybrid that you can't plug in is one that only benefits the stealership and petrol stations, not the driver.

      How?

      Unless you have solar power, you're still paying for the electricity for that 50km

      How is a non plugin hybrid benefiting the dealership? It costs the same to service as the normal petrol model. Toyota hybrid systems are designed to never need servicing. Not once over the logbook will you see anything about the battery/electric motors.

      Oh and the PHEV costs more to service than its petrol equivalents… ($940 vs $1095 over 3yrs) I think you drank the Coolaid didn't you? 😂

      • Euphemistic on 20/08/2018 - 18:53

        Not only is the cost of electricity cheaper than petrol, battery charging and electric motors are vastly more efficient than the petroleum engine.

        I saw a recent link that showed the internal combustion engine puts something like 14% of the petroleum energy into the wheels. Ie 86% of the fuel energy is essentially wasted. Electric drive is more like the other way around, closer to 80% of the energy gets to the wheels.

        • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 19:20
          -1

          Yes but we're discussing plugin hybrid vs non plugin here, not hybrid vs petrol.

          Both hybrid cars have petrol engines.

        • Euphemistic on 20/08/2018 - 19:49

          @Spackbace: a plug in hybrid will be able to charge the batteries much more efficiently from the grid than one that requires a generator driven by petrol.

          It is concievable that a plug in hybrid might run mostly on electric power from the grid.

        • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 20:01
          -1

          @Euphemistic:

          A hybrid system like those in Toyota aren't just charged off petrol.

        • Euphemistic on 20/08/2018 - 21:15

          @Spackbace: I’m not overly familiar with how they work. Where does the charge come from if not from Petrol?

        • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 21:27
          -1

          @Euphemistic:

          Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive system charges the battery in two ways. Firstly and as already mentioned, the petrol engine drives the generator to charge the battery. The second method is through regenerative braking, a system that puts braking energy to good use.

          Every time you put your foot on the brake or lift off the accelerator, the system diverts energy back to the battery where it is, in effect, recycled. Instead of the energy being lost as heat or noise from the brakes, it is captured and then used to power the electric motor later. This is particularly efficient in stop-start traffic where the system recovers and stores a great deal of energy, making the car more efficient overall.

        • Euphemistic on 20/08/2018 - 23:03

          @Spackbace: ok. But the energy to get the vehicle moving still comes from the petrol in the first place. And if you say ‘what if you just roll down a hill’, then the petrol energy was used to get the car up there last time you drove.

          Sure, it definitely uses less petrol than a non hybrid because it can recover some of the otherwise lost energy, but with a PHEV you can get some of the energy from the grid in a more efficient manner and still use regeneration as well.

        • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 23:17
          -1

          @Euphemistic:

           But the energy to get the vehicle moving still comes from the petrol in the first place

          Wrong again. Toyota hybrids start on electric, petrol kicks in at certain speed or when you put your foot on the throttle.

          Toyota hybrids also have a pure EV mode where they run on battery only. Has to be under certain conditions but still happens.

          With a PHEV you still require charging off the grid, which costs money… As I said originally, the only way you can't factor a cost into pure EV is if you're charging off solar. To say that charging an EV off your mains is free is to just be plain ignorant.

          50km worth of EV, what's the point? When you're paying more for servicing and paid more for the car over its non-hybrid equivalent. Toyota have priced their new hybrid options at $1000-2000 over their petrol counterpart, which makes it an absolute no-brainier.

        • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 23:29
          -1

          @Euphemistic:

          50km in a Camry hybrid would use roughly 3L or fuel or less. $4 worth of fuel or so. Cbf doing the math, but under standard power costs I'm sure that PHEV charge wouldn't be too far off

        • affable on 24/08/2018 - 10:24

          @Spackbace:

          Well my PHEV does the math and graphs for me, and it costs me $1.20 in electricity in my PHEV to do 50km. Same complexity as a Camry Hybrid, yet you only get about 30% benefit when you can't plug in, whereas off peak electricity wins by about 300% over petrol.

  • CheapSticks on 20/08/2018 - 22:29

    Think i am getting inclined to go for Hybrid !!

    • spackbace on 20/08/2018 - 23:18

      Hybrid Camry Ascent Sport would legit be my car of choice if I needed to

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