2 Year Renewal, Demerit Points, License Suspensions and OzBargain Penalty Box

brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 08:54
Last edited 18/08/2018 - 09:11

The driving licensing system is a well thought system that deals with life and death so maybe it should be something that is modelled by the Ozbargain penalty and incentive schemes.

I was recently put in the penalty box for a week due to some infraction. However the last infraction was over a year ago for a similar but different infraction. I did read it at the time but thought classifieds was ok to post this infraction and since it was a different infraction wasn't remembered well. I thought yes I broke the rules, so a 1 or 3 day penalty was necessary but the moderator said they had no discretion in the matter. Perhaps they simply didn't want to argue.

The longer you have an account the more likely you would to do infractions simply as a function of time. eBay recognizes this in the feedback system by having percentages instead of a direct absolute number as the main feedback score.

Now let's look at the driving system. After 2 years demerit points are forgiven. Does the same apply the the Ozbargain penalty system? Of course this could be gamed but maybe it would only be forgiven if a certain number of postive deals were posted?

The point of the Ozbargain penalty system is to have a thriving positive community. I climb a lot and one of the things we learn is reasons not rules.

I understand this isn't a democracy with Scotty as a benovolent dictator but if he wants a thriving community he should listen to the community before making a decision. Of course he's free to ignore it.

What's your thoughts?

Site Discussion

Comments

  • Moderatorhamza23 on 18/08/2018 - 13:11

    Now let's look at the driving system. After 2 years demerit points are forgiven. Does the same apply the the Ozbargain penalty system?

    Yes, our redeveloped penalty box system was actually based on the licence point system, you are suggesting something that is already in place and has been for a few years now.

    only be forgiven if a certain number of positive deals were posted?

    No, we don't treat members differently based on how many deals they have or haven't posted, the same rules and penalty point system applies to everyone.

    I'm paranoid about being banned from Ozbargain for over a month (not that a week is bad enough!).

    If you avoid purposely breaching our guidelines, rather than working out how you can game the system or get around the guidelines then the paranoia issue should be resolved.

    • brisdaz on 17/04/2025 - 22:38
      -2

      If you avoid purposely breaching our guidelines, rather than working out how you can game the system or get around the guidelines then the paranoia issue should be resolved.

      The OzBargain community encourages and applauds gaming the system. In fact when Gerry Harvey calls us "professionals" it's a badge of pride but when that same spirit is applied elsewhere it's not applauded by moderators. Like for example, OzBargain encourage gaming the system or ethically questionable consumers to go against their word or break contracts with ING as an example. With ING the terms and conditions of their referral system says it's against the rules to post on OzBargain OzBargain creates a PM system so consumers can game the system in shadowy PMs.

      OzBargain even have a parenthesis bracket for gaming the system or ethically questionable deals calling it "[hacks]".

  • burningrage on 18/08/2018 - 09:00
    +1

    If I were to apply your demerit points analogy to Ozbargain then Scotty would have to start fining people for every infraction in addition to adding demerit point and that…. I think it's a big no.

    We already are the worst nanny nation in the world with more restrictions or forbiddens than what people are allowed to do vs if you want to compare to HK or even our closest neighbour, Indonesia.

    So no to your idea. No offense. I like OzBs as is.

    • brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 09:01

      I'm not talking about applying fines necessarily (how would that be enforced anyway - we don't hand out credit card details) but simply that it's forgiven. Or a that moderator's have more discretion.

      • burningrage on 18/08/2018 - 09:08

        This sounds better but better still, it is expected perpetrators should learn from the mistake and move on. No element of social engineering unlike our demerit point system where the rules keeps changing to accommodate creeping culture engineering to eventually make people hate cars.

        Just action and consequences per se.

      • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 18/08/2018 - 12:50
        +4

        I like diving in the penalty box at the weekend.

      • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 17:27
        +1

        No. Discretion is anathema to a working regulatory system. It opens the way for complaints of unfair exercise of discretion, not to mention abuse and inconsistent enforcement.

  • retiredfeline on 18/08/2018 - 09:05
    +9

    Meh

  • brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 09:07

    Why am I being reported?

    • burningrage on 18/08/2018 - 09:09

      I don't know why but you shouldn't be.

      • brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 09:10

        This doesn't belong in TWAM since it affects the whole community and is a general policy decision. It isn't due to specifics of one infraction which is why I didn't mention it.

  • try2bhelpful on 18/08/2018 - 09:39
    +3

    Ozbargain forum topics are, generally, an echo chamber of one subset of society anyway. If something is offensive report it because that is the only way to deal with it. If you are worrying about the demerit points you are racking up then, maybe, you should consider what you are posting as a first step instead of worrying about the system.

    • brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 09:50

      Thanks I've already read the rules a number of times now as well as going so far as to self-censor by applying for pre approval of posts. I'm paranoid about being banned from Ozbargain for over a month (not that a week is bad enough!).

      • Baysew on 18/08/2018 - 09:58

        as going so far as to self-censor

        No, being responsible for your own actions is a step to far.

        • brisdaz on 18/08/2018 - 10:06
          -2

          Two sides of the same coin.

          There is such a concept as "chilling effects"

          Chilling effect. In a legal context, a chilling effect is the inhibition or discouragement of the legitimate exercise of natural and legal rights by the threat of legal sanction. … When that fear is brought about by the threat of a libel lawsuit, it is called libel chill.

      • airzone on 18/08/2018 - 12:25
        +5

        You're not seriously losing sleep over it though, right? Yeah it's a cool enough website, but in the scheme of things, not that big of a deal

  • FiDad on 18/08/2018 - 12:15
    +5

    The longer you have an account the more likely you would to do infractions simply as a function of time

    I dont agree with this. I have been a member for a fairly long time and dont remember getting an infraction and i am sure majority of long term members are in the same boat. I think current OZB penatly system is fine as it is

  • sss333 on 18/08/2018 - 12:45
    +1

    I think the penalty box needs to be renamed to the sin bin
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_bin

    Maybe add a poll about your idea.

    • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 18/08/2018 - 12:54
      +4

      "I understand this isn't a democracy with Scotty as a benevolent dictator but"

      and….. he's back in the box.

  • sssx on 18/08/2018 - 13:11
    +3

    Maybe simply describing it more along the lines of "the older a previous bad thing is, the lower weighting it holds as a repeat offense"? I mean, I get it - a year or two later and you may not remember all the rules. Typically you'll be abiding by them, but sometimes we make a mistake.

    And to be honest, it's not easy enough to find the rules and the fact there even IS a penalty box. The only thing I found saying a user (not a rep) can go to penalty box is posting too many deals too quickly (Posting several deals is punishable? Why not just have the site not allow posts within X time frame?). It was easier to google it and then work backwards. The guidelines post was easy to find but I didn't go deeper into the more in-depth guideline pages because the main one summarised it enough.

    Also after actually finding the rules, there's a lot of text to read and study to make sure you abide by them all.

    I haven't had any problems myself, but I imagine it'd be annoying if once a year you make a mistake and because you've got 5 past mistakes over 5 years you get perma-banned.

    • Moderatorhamza23 on 18/08/2018 - 13:21

      Agree and that won't happen with how we do things, we give warnings (apart from serious offences) and older offences expire after a certain amount of time (it's natural users may forget). We also understand members aren't going to proactively read pages of guidelines, that is why we'll give a PM warning with the relevant information first.

      • sssx on 18/08/2018 - 14:47
        +2

        Cool, I guess I'm happy then :)

  • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 17:29

    Tangential (or not even), but how come my upvote limit changes all the time? Is there an algorithm somewhere? It fluctuates anywhere between 30 and 50, and I have no idea where the heck that number comes from.

    • Moderatorhamza23 on 20/08/2018 - 17:40

      Please see here

      One's limit is base + contribution, which is calculated from the amount of commenting you've done in the previous 24 hours.

      Yes the answer isn't easy to find, it's not documented in FAQ as yet, that is a fairly recent addition and we are still analysing the feature/making changes to the algorithm.

      • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 17:43

        Ah gotcha. Ta.

      • sss333 on 21/08/2018 - 11:04

        Can contribution actually include comp and deal posts? Now contribution only includes comments, doesn't matter how good the comment is or even if it gets unpublished.

        Alternatively, remove the limit all together.

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