This was posted 6 years 5 months 6 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

Related
  • expired

FREE Digital Video Course: "Textual Criticism" and Audio: "Church History" @ Credo Courses

2514
FREE Digital Video Course: "Textual Criticism" and Audio: "Church History" @ Credo Courses
Go to Deal
gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 05:20 credocourses.com (119 clicks)
Last edited 14/08/2018 - 01:27 by 2 other users

The textual Criticism course is also available on https://www.biblicaltraining.org/. However, some videos are shorter and you have the option to download them on Credo courses website.

Textual Criticism (digital video) by Dr. Daniel Wallace: https://www.credocourses.com/product/textual-criticism/?goal…

Church History Boot Camp (audio) by C. Michael Patton and Tim Kimberley (Th.M. Dallas Theological Seminary): https://www.credocourses.com/product/church-history-boot-cam…

Christian Apologetics 101 (digital video) by Dr. Douglas Groothuis: https://www.credocourses.com/product/christian-apologetics-1…

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/396109

Textual Criticism:

A Scholarly Defense of the New Testament Manuscript Tradition

Christianity is based upon the Bible. Today, the Bible is under attack on all fronts. However, these attacks are usually surface level treatments of the topic put forth by those who don’t really have an understanding of the topic.

Dr. Daniel Wallace is arguably the foremost scholar today on the topic of New Testament Textual Criticism

For those who are tired of today’s church being so anti-intellectual and adrift at sea with no anchor, we ask you to get involved in reclaiming your mind for Christ. This study aims at turning the tides toward a new age of humble theological depth.

Church History Boot Camp:

This course takes you through 2000 years of church history. From the early church to medieval times to the Reformation and on up to the present you will learn how God has shaped His people and guided them as they developed a deeper understanding of His truth.

Christian Apologetics 101

This course consists of 30 sessions each around 25-30 minutes in length covering all major aspects of the field of Christian Apologetics. There are also 800+ on-screen slides throughout the course to make it easier to pause and take notes.

The length of these lectures makes them perfect for a wide range of application:

Seminary and university courses
Personal study
Small-group study
Homeschool classes
With hundreds-of-millions of followers across the globe, Christianity has, for centuries, stood at the forefront of intellectual thought. Recently, however, many have begun to question the Christian Worldview. The faith of many has been shaken by the perceived divide between faith and science.

Should Christians be worried that their beliefs don’t measure up in an age of modernity?

Education

Related Stores

Credo Courses
Credo Courses

closed Comments

  • SBOB on 12/08/2018 - 05:40
    -3

    Didn't get enough love from your other deal? Neg due to always free and not a bargain

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 05:54
      +2

      I posted this one since not one person claim to have a better course for free. Everyone who criticises the previous deal seem to complain because they don't like religion and/or Christianity. Udemy has free courses all the time since it's not just about religion very rarely people complain. And many Udemy courses are not as good as this one. And it's not always free, your lying. I don't do it for people who obviously are opposed to religion/Christianity. I do it for the few that will appreciate it.

      • PJC on 12/08/2018 - 05:58

        Has this been free before please?

      • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:02

        At least D Wallace accepts it is full of forgeries and counter forgeries. He bitches, flip flops, and will still blatantly lie to children.

        He was up to his neck in this BS too.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6raUnfUPhDw

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 14:07

          He never said full of forgeries and corruption. Can you show me where he used the word "FULL"? And your link for a wrong cardon dating of a manuscript is not evidence for forgeries or corruption. Do you agree with Dr. Daniel Wallance, textual variance we found does not affect any major doctrine in Christianity. Do you agree with his view on the doctrine of preservation?

  • KMeister on 12/08/2018 - 05:41

    Are they rewritable?

    • retiredfeline on 12/08/2018 - 06:23

      Never mind, even DVD ROMs are spectacular for 5 seconds in a microwave. Put it in a plastic bag because of the fumes. Tip: Good way to wipe a CD or DVD BTW. You're welcome.

  • PJC on 12/08/2018 - 05:57

    OP have these items been free previously please?

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 06:06

      If you mean all the courses on the websites, no. If you mean the 3 specific courses in this post. Christian Apologetics 101 (digital video) by Dr. Douglas Groothuis, the digital video has never been free as far as I know. "Textual Criticism" has been free before, its the first time I post this one. Maybe the Audio for "Church History Boot Camp" but I'm not sure, If its a new course on the website, unlikely it would be free before, if a bit older, maybe but I'm not sure.

  • retiredfeline on 12/08/2018 - 06:05
    +2

    More Christian apoplectics. 🤑

  • xev on 12/08/2018 - 06:16
    -1

    This is not a venue for peddling dying ideologies.

    Negging as this is a sales pitch and not a Bargain.

    • CacheHunter on 12/08/2018 - 08:39

      Evidence that it's a dying ideology?
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth
      Also, Christianity isn't an ideology, but based on a series of historical claims that are either true/fact or they're not - the Bible itself admits 'and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile'.

      • pretz92 on 12/08/2018 - 09:55
        +1

        however this rate of growth is slower than the overall population growth over the same time period

        theres your evidence

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 10:03

          An example western countries have on average fewer children than middle east countries

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:13

          @gto21:The only place it still has a hold is in Africa where they can keep the population uneducated, away from knowledge, and women oppressed with no control over their own bodies. Islam however, will take longer to peak yet.

        • xev on 12/08/2018 - 13:31

          @Major Mess: Both major religions, as well as many native beliefs, have wreaked havoc on Africa.

          I have heard of many true horror stories coming from Africa.

        • rygle on 14/08/2018 - 15:51
          +1

          @xev:

          So you don't think other influences apart from religion have caused problems in Africa?

          Like colonialism (England, France, Spain, Holland etc)? Like imposing the Western lifestyle including living in high concentration near water, the very thing that best spreads malaria, rather than in small villages away from water? Like western food that slowly poisons Africans as it is already doing to westerners? Like introducing inequities (and the resulting corruption, conflict and war) between people who were previously more or less equal?

          Or greed on an industrial scale, say involving oil, gold, diamonds, coal tan, other rare metals, farming land, ivory, arms trade, drugs? Or just plain commercial/capitalist exploitation of people who don't really need lots of stuff, for instance baby formula?

          Or kidnapping millions of people to force them into slavery in another land?

          And of course no problems would ever be caused by African culture itself? Such as fgm? Eating bushmeat?

          Religion is just one force among so many other forces that have exerted a strong negative influence on Africa and the world. And religion ≠ Biblical Christianity.

        • xev on 14/08/2018 - 16:02

          @rygle: Wow, that must have taken some time to write.

          Except I didn't say religion is the only issue in Africa.

          But nice Strawman you have created there.

          Make no mistake, Religion, whether Native or Imported, Ancient or New, Big or Small, is a cancer upon Africa.

        • gto21 on 14/08/2018 - 16:17

          @Major Mess: Benin has the highest percentage growth rate in Africa and its not even in the top ten in the world. But I don't really care anyway, rich, poor, black, white, educated, uneducated. People can join or leave it does not affect me. If I remember correctly Atheism will decrease while Christianity will increase. It's not a competition its not about numbers. Increase in number or decrease does not make something true or false. Communism was one of the fastest growing spreading movement in history. It actually doesn't prove anything. Growth rate can be affected by other factors as well like: Birth Rate.

        • rygle on 14/08/2018 - 18:04
          +1

          @xev]

          Actually it didn't take very long to write because there are so many terrible things that you can point to in Africa that have nothing to do with religion.

          I didn't even go into the dictatorships, child soldiers, rebel groups, or China building roads for "totally philanthropic/benign" reasons, or the world bank and the IMF lending money en masse to countries that can't afford to repay it, forcing them into poverty. (http://www.africaw.com/how-the-world-bank-and-the-imf-destro… ) Neither did I talk about apartheid, and a bunch more stuff.

          If you think that's all a straw man, you're in serious need of education.

        • xev on 14/08/2018 - 19:28

          @rygle:

          You're arguing against points I never made. Constructing your very own Straw Man to argue against.

          If you were arguing against my original point you would be explaining how religion has not wreaked havoc on Africa.

          Now, that's not an argument anyone is going to make.

          Not unless you're in serious need of education.

          You can start here:

          https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=0Z5yW-PiId…

        • rygle on 15/08/2018 - 12:10
          +1

          @xev:

          If you want to talk about straw men, then your whole argument about religion damaging the whole world is the big straw man in this post. The post is about courses that teach people a skill that is used by both religious and secular scholars, textual criticism. That is used by people studying any ancient manuscripts, religious or otherwise, all of which are open to errors creeping in because they were copied by hand. Heck, even in the digital age you find multiple versions of electronic documents and at times the same skills need to be used.

          So, irrespective of your views on religion, this is a skill that is being taught that has much wider application that just religious texts. It so happens that Christian scholars like Daniel Wallace are at the forefront in this field, because contrary to the statements of many in this forum, Christians actually care about facts and accuracy when it comes to the things they believe. Textual criticism compares thousands of texts and can trace generations and localities of manuscripts to identify where errors crept in to particular manuscripts with a very high degree of accuracy. The fact that these texts were copied by highly trained scribes helps, and the fact that the texts were copied so widely means there is a lot of data to draw from. Scholars can identify that a particular error crept into a branch of texts at a particular place and time, and trace the generations that follow and demonstrate the same aberrant text. This happens with lots of texts, from Shakespeare to Roman history, and it might surprise you that the Judeo-Christian texts have a far higher degree of textual confidence than texts from Shakespeare, texts about Julius Ceasar, and pretty much anything else that you care to name.

          However, given that you want to talk about Africa, or the terrible harm that religion has done, let's come back to that…

          I agree that different religious groups have caused a great deal of harm. This is in some part because of beliefs that are taught by a religion, such as child sacrifice, polygamy, cannibalism, genital mutilation, and many more. It is also because people are just people, and regardless of religious belief or lack of, they tend to do things that either intentionally or unintentionally bring both good and harm - selfishness, cultural imperialism (food, clothing, distrust of traditional medicines, imposing western housing /living conditions - see my previous malaria example - and many similar problems), harbouring disease, etc. However my point in previous posts is that the degree of harm caused by religion in a place such as Africa pales into insignificance compared to the damage historically caused and still being caused by a great many other forces, economic, environmental, social, ideological, technological, imperialist, cultural and more. If you weigh the damage caused by religion against the damage caused by so many other forces, on the balance I believe you will find that your argument is wrong. I would argue that capitalism has done easily as much damage as all religion combined, but the fact that capitalism is not one big thing you can point at like a church organisation, that it is far harder to apportion the blame, and therefore lazy minded people go for the big target of religion. There are so many capitalist forces at work in a place like Africa that it is scary to think about it at any length. Gold mines, diamond mines, coal tan mines and oil extraction are just a few of the ways that capitalists exploit the African people that you have so easily skirted so you can set up your own straw man to burn down, and that's only a small portion of the forces that I mentioned, which was also nothing like a comprehensive assessment of the situation. I didn't even mention the tobacco industry or many other things…

          You have also totally skirted talking about the great amount of good that religious groups have done in so many places. For another time…

  • eatwell365 on 12/08/2018 - 06:40
    +1

    Ordered. Thank you OP.

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 07:02

      Your welcome :)

  • fantombloo on 12/08/2018 - 07:14
    +5

    A blood-thirsty god and caged hens - ozb's favorite discussion topics.

  • RubenM on 12/08/2018 - 08:14
    -2

    Not a bargain AND a completely rubbish product.
    Don't push your sect onto others please.

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 08:19
      +1

      No one has a gun on your head forcing you to take the course. Look at all those Udemy courses, I guess they are trying to force it on you? (Udemy course on Oz usually have religious course as well) Did they force it on you when posting on Oz?

      • dealhunt on 12/08/2018 - 08:42
        +8

        This course is not about Islam

        I'm Christian

        I criticize Islam

        Death and threat death don't work on everyone

        If I remember ozbargain is for bargains not religion.
        You're religious, go the church and express your free speech over there because here we buy stuff not ideology nor brainwashing.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 08:50
          -1

          It's a course. You even have university course on those topics. Two of them have historical facts. Agnostic scholars as Bart Ehrman study those topics. Tom Holland who is secular also study church history. Many scholars and historian It's not just Christians. Why should religion be banned and not other stuff? If I have no interest in certain Udemy course should we ban it? Do you ask to remove religious course on Udemy or you stay quiet since it also contains other courses? If I can only speak about it in church that not free speech. You're against free speech and religion.

        • SBOB on 12/08/2018 - 08:58
          +3

          @gto21:

          Ozbargain is a private site/forum.. Your ability to or not to be able to post your religious 'spruking' has no bearing on 'free speech' (which is not actually part of our laws like it is in americas)

          If your 'bargain' is deemed not a bargain or not adding value to the site then it's entirely fair to have it removed if the mods deem so (they likely won't though, unless it gets as much heat as the gun posts did….or you keep posting one every day and then I hope they do)

          Religious people already know where to find religious material, which is always free. No idea why posting links to them every day adds any value to ozbargain. It's a forum post, not a bargain post in my opinion.

        • Ramrunner on 12/08/2018 - 09:23
          +6

          @gto21: Stop comparing religion to Udemy. I know as a devout believer you'll grab at any straw to validate your religion, but I go to Udemy to learn a skill such as photography, cooking, python, public speaking, whatever.

          What you're doing is almost the same as knocking on my door one Sunday every month. "Hey you don't have to take this but here I am".

          People are free to believe what they want. I do not think you a lesser or better person for having faith. You should have the same respect for others who do not share your belief instead of justifying why they should.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 09:44
          -2

          @SBOB: it is a bargain a course like that by Daniel Wallace is expensive. And youtube doesn't have anything as good for free. It has copyright as well so it should not be upload on site like youtube. Its very clear your issue is because it's on religion. Nothing to do if its a bargain or not. If you dislike religion and Christianity does not mean its not a bargain.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 09:58
          -1

          @Ramrunner: I don't think I disrespect you. If you're consistent you should also have respect for people who don't share your belief as well. ANyone can post for example on Atheism or something else. Free book on Atheism or Post a deal on books like "The God Delusion" I don't care. If you really use Udemy, you would know they have free religious course. Since you support Udemy, it shows you have a double standard. It's ok when it's on Udemy since you gain something out of it. You turn a blind eye when its on Udemy which contain religious course. If a deal on a book like "The God Delusion" should it be posted on Oz?

        • dealhunt on 12/08/2018 - 10:12

          @gto21: I'm Satan and your preaching doesn't work with me.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 12:22

          @dealhunt:
          I hate to point out that according to some references, Satan is actually gods favorite son. Not a bad guy. Look it up.
          I suspect it's been disorted purposely.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 14:09

          @username02: chapter and verse Satan is the favourite son of God?

        • Ramrunner on 12/08/2018 - 22:43

          @gto21: You brought up Udemy. I simply said the comparison is not valid. You're free to believe what you want to believe……as I've already said and made clear. It was only because you justified your post using Udemy. If you truly believe then stop being baited by everyone here, stop responding and get on with your own life. The fact that you keep wanting to justify religion and your post on such, and the fact is has 12 negative votes, should tell you maybe this is not the place to bring this up.

        • gto21 on 13/08/2018 - 20:07

          @Ramrunner: Udemy also have religious courses. Showing a double standard. Just because the vast majority neg votes are by people who dislike religion that does not mean it should not be on Oz. Easy to tell by just reading the comments. It only motivate me to post more deals. You are right. Not gonna waste my time. I will just ignore your comments.

  • Suspect420 on 12/08/2018 - 09:03
    +1

    Is this Kosher?

    • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 09:20
      +1

      Nah, it's halal.

  • Ramrunner on 12/08/2018 - 09:17
    +6

    OK - this has to stop. Let's get back to real bargains please no peddling religion.

    • Ramrunner on 12/08/2018 - 09:26

      Good to see you up early on this beautiful Sunday morning SBOB. Guess you're on your way to church then. Haven't seen any comments from you would prefer to see some discussion rather than blind negging but then to be expected.

      • SBOB on 12/08/2018 - 10:10

        Not sure why you put my name in there?

        • Ramrunner on 12/08/2018 - 22:38

          Apologies - when I looked this morning it showed a negative on this comment against my post from you, now it shows a positive. Don't know what happened. You're good.

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 09:49
      -1

      You have non-religious theologian. Agnostic scholar Bart Ehrman study textual criticism. Secular scholar Tom Holland study history. Not because you don't like religion/Christianity is should be banned. A lot of deal I have no interest in them, but does not mean it should be banned. Many free Udemy courses. A few religious ones included (and many are not as good as this one). But most people stay quiet since it contains another course as well. I don't see people get so passionate about Udemy courses.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 09:20
    +2

    LOL

  • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 09:43
    +5

    Hasn't Abrahamian religions done enough harm to life on this planet, that you people would feel enough shame to not peddle it outside your meeting places and homes.
    I'm downvoting as stealing my soul is not a Bargain IMHO.

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 09:51

      Most major wars have been done by non-religious people. You obviously against free speech and religion. An analogy is like saying sport should be only in a stadium or at home. Which will be nonsense.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 09:58

        The holy bible can fairly be described as a fiction-based psychology book, which encourages raping women, killing children, raiding and pillaging unarmed villages, witchcraft, slavery.
        Much more to add, but no proof of god still after a million years. Please open your eyes, or bring god out in the open.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 10:01

          Let's take your first example, to show me where it say raping women. you make a claim prove it, don't divert from the question.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 10:13

          @gto21:
          See Professor Richard Dawkins films on religion, the quotes are in them.
          Roughly from memory, god says raping women is ok, but the rapist must pay compensation to her father if he requires it. If the father orders it, the rape victim must marry the rapist. If married and unsatisfied, the rapist can sell the wife, but not to a foreigner. Which suggests god is actually from Israel. Didn't expect that.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 10:22

          @username02: the word used is "shakab" the vast majority of scholar translate it as "lay with". The vast majority of translation don't translate it as rape. Especially literal translation. You're using a more dynamic translation. that would be a few translations compare to 100s. So tried again where does it say its ok to rape women?

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 10:34

          @gto21:
          I told you. You simply wont accept it.

          Now, as I requested of you, please ask your storybook god to show himself. No one has ever actually seen or talked to this thing. As you are of the flesh, and can surely not claim honestly you knew, met, or talked with this thing until after you read it in a book, your impression obviously comes from the book itself. Can you admit that?

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 10:55
          -2

          @username02: I showed you the word in Hebrew prove to me it can't be translated as "lay with". Anyway, your comment is irrelevant since the deal has nothing to do with morality. You have atheist scholars like Dr. Robert Price, agnostic Dr. Bart Erhman, Historian Tom Holland, who study the historical church and/or manuscript evidence. Even non-believers study history. Your comments have nothing to do on the deal. But since we started the conversation on rape, you can bring your evidence. I can give you one more opportunity to prove me wrong.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 11:23

          @gto21:
          Abraham said to his visitors to not sleep with his animals, but to sleep with his young children. Correct?
          That IS rape my state, WA.

          You're the dreamer spreading a harmful, decaying dream on a bargain website.
          Why focus on dead people and fantasy stories in your life.
          I think many intelligent people find the bible rediculous and harmful.

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 11:36

          @username02: Can you give us a chapter and verse for that? I'm not saying it's not in there but if you are making the claim then you should at least provide some evidence.

        • SBOB on 12/08/2018 - 12:15

          @EightImmortals:

          why, the OP never does ;)

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 12:18
          +1

          @SBOB: Maybe, but it would be a good opportunity to show your greater knowledge on the subject? :)

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 14:11

          @username02: chapter and verse to prove your case? Your talking to someone else using me as an excuse expose your lies. What chapter and verse you want from me anyway?

        • Dave Id on 12/08/2018 - 23:57

          @gto21:

          Numbers 31 onwards.

        • gto21 on 13/08/2018 - 08:25

          @Dave Id: Don't get involved in something you can't prove. I don't think you even read what the guys claim since you mention numbers. Many of you are just commenting for the sake of arguing, while it's clear you guys have zero knowledge of what you're talking about. I will try to answer a sincere objection relating to the course, but you and "major mess" can't take both of you seriously.

        • Dave Id on 13/08/2018 - 18:37

          @gto21:

          Scotch College,Hawthorn took me seriously when I taught Religion in Life Classes as a guest teacher.

          Doubt you'd get past the back gate.

          Home
          BibleGateway
          Search
          A A A A A
          Bible Book List
          Study This
          Numbers 31
          Numbers 30
          Numbers 32
          Numbers 31 King James Version (KJV)

          31 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

          2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.

          3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the Lord of Midian.

          4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.

          5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.

          6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

          7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

          8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

          9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

          10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

          11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

          12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

          13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

          14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

          15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

          16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

          17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

          18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

          19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

          20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

          21 And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses;

          22 Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,

          23 Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

          24 And ye shall wash your clothes on the seventh day, and ye shall be clean, and afterward ye shall come into the camp.

          25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

          26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

          27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

          28 And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

          29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord.

          30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord.

          31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

          32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

          33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

          34 And threescore and one thousand asses,

          35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

          36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

          37 And the Lord'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

          38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

          39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord'S tribute was threescore and one.

          40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the Lord'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

          41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

          42 And of the children of Israel's half, which Moses divided from the men that warred,

          43 (Now the half that pertained unto the congregation was three hundred thousand and thirty thousand and seven thousand and five hundred sheep,

          44 And thirty and six thousand beeves,

          45 And thirty thousand asses and five hundred,

          46 And sixteen thousand persons;)

          47 Even of the children of Israel's half, Moses took one portion of fifty, both of man and of beast, and gave them unto the Levites, which kept the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses.

          48 And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:

          49 And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.

          50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the Lord, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the Lord.

          51 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.

          52 And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the Lord, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.

          53 (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)

          54 And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the Lord.

        • gto21 on 13/08/2018 - 18:53

          @Dave Id: Sure such a great theologian that you miss the mark by more than 600 years! By more than 600 years, let that sink in. I'm going to ignore your future comments on this one also, I gave you at least 2 opportunities to prove your point.

    • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 10:24
      +1

      Actually people have done a lot of damage in 'God's name' (but really their own lust for power usually) but the numbers pale in comparison to the damage done by those in the name of humanity or based on atheistic ideologies. I refer you to the marxist enterprises of last century in Russia and China for starters. And then there was WWI and WW2, Korea, Vietnam and currently the middle east. None of which were done for religious causes nor in any God's name.

    • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:16

      That was the 70, 80, and 90's. Apparently they started their bullying again in the early 2000's. Yeah I missed it too… I was still dealing with the previous bullying.

      • rygle on 12/08/2018 - 22:11

        Most of the things @eightimmortals just mentioned were well before the 70s.

        The Marxist revolution was in the 1910s, as was WWI
        WWII was the 30s-40s
        Korea was the 50s
        Vietnam was the 60s

        He didn't even mention the Afghan/Russian conflict, the imperialism of Spain, England, France, Rome, the Huns, Vikings, Incas, Dutch, the civil wars in the United States, Spain, the drug cartels in Mexico and so many more

  • Loki556 on 12/08/2018 - 10:13
    +3

    These posts need to be judged on a one simple criteria:

    Is it a bargain (i.e. a thing bought or offered for sale much more cheaply than is usual or expected) or not.

    Seriously, if the same downvoting criteria expressed in this thread was applied to everything on ozbargain, half the posts would be in the negative (ardh T-shirts, anyone?).

    If you don’t like the product advertised, but it is offered at reduced price, just move on.

    • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:17
      +1

      No bargain, and it comes broken. You can get better quality for free, elsewhere.

      • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 20:41

        Based on what you copied paste which turns out to be incoherent. It's easy to see you don't know anything on textual criticism. You won't know a better course on textual criticism even if you see one.

  • retiredfeline on 12/08/2018 - 10:19
    +1

    Where are the pastafarian deals when we need them? ;)

  • Wystri Warrick on 12/08/2018 - 10:41
    +6

    Throughout history all religious and most ideologies have lead to persecution and extermination of those who do not fit and or conform to the ideology.

    Let's close these books.

    • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 10:49

      The other way around as well religious people have been persecuted for their belief.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 11:02
        +1

        Often by other religious people. Catholics against Christians for example.

        Anyway, would you agree gto, that christians choose to live in the fantasy from a fictional story book rather than everyday, open-eyed reality with the rest of us.
        I'm only trying to help to save your soul fom the organised religion predators.

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 11:20

          Why would he agree to that?
          Why are you equating religion with God?
          Which 'religious predator' have you had personal experience with?
          What part of the Bible has been proven to be not true?
          How do you know that YOU aren't the one living in a fantasy world from your fictional story books?
          What is taught in the Bible that is inconsistent with reality?

          I'll give you points for your first sentence though, yes the RCC was particularly brutal in it's dealings with other believers (and unbelievers). But none of those actions can be reconciled to the Christ of the Bible and the truth of the Bible is not dependant on individuals or organisations actions. And please don't miss the MAIN point, and that is that ALL authority persecutes dissenters, regardless of how that authority claims it's legitimacy. The torture committed by the dark ages RCC is NO different to the torture being committed by the CIA today, or the Stazi in Stalin's time etc etc ad nauseum. The one common denominator in everyone's complaints about the abuse of power is not 'religion', it is human beings. The need to blame a particular group (but not 'my' group) is merely a sign of an individuals level of growth (or lack thereof) IMO.

          (OK I know you're only trolling the guy but can't we all play too? )

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 12:07
          +3

          @EightImmortals:
          I gotta go in a minute, but

          What is taught in the Bible that is inconsistent with reality?

          Parting of the seas.
          Water into wine.
          Walking on water.
          Loaves and fishes.
          god
          heaven
          devil,satan, lucifer
          life after death
          for a few examples.

          Which 'religious predator' have you had personal experience with?

          A: family member married a Catholic. Wars started.
          But christians have agressively tried to convert natives over much of the world. That interference has ruined many cultures. Many are way to deluded and aggressive in my persona experience.

          Catholic church in the 20th century was found to have sold over 5000 babies in their hospitals in several countries, having supplied their parents with false death certificates.
          Then there is Haiti around 300 years ago, importing slaves from Africa, selling their children to US plntation owners.
          I think many more exmples
          Christians have had a bloody, warring history well documented.

          Must go.

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:24
          +1

          @EightImmortals: Have a read of some history. The protestants were at it as well. They went crazy fighting each other and burning at the stake, and treated women even worse than the originals.

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 12:28

          @username02: Thanks for the reply, yeah I'm heading out soon too. None of those things that you listed are inconsistent with reality, they are just not part of our every day experiences. The Bible claim is they happened and the events were recorded by eyewitnesses. (See the OP's free offer for further info on that point. :) ) There are MANY strange and unexplained events that have happened throughout history that are not part of our everyday experiences.

          "family member married a Catholic. Wars started."

          Lols. :)

          "But christians have agressively tried to convert natives over much of the world. That interference has ruined many cultures. Many are way to deluded and aggressive in my persona experience."

          Well I guess I can't disagree with those facts. What I have observed is that those types of Christians are always confused between the teachings of Christ and 'western democratic capitalism'. It's too long of a discussion to get into here but I agree with you on that point. But again, none of those behaviours can be reconciled to the Christ of the Bible (I'm not even convinced that we are supposed to 'convert' anyone anyway, assist those who wish to walk the path but forcible conversions have always seemed an oxymoron to me).

          And don't get me started on Televangelists……..

          "Catholic church in the 20th century was found to have sold over 5000 babies……"

          Well, like I said before, don;t get 'religion' confused with God. :)

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 12:38

          @Major Mess: Yes the reformation had it's good and bad points. :)

          But maybe I'm not explaining my position properly. I'm not saying that religion is innocent, I'm saying that there seems to be 2 different views on the subject that have different meanings depending on who is holding those views. The most popular view at this point in our history is that Christianity is simply another man made institution with a bunch of arbitrary rules (kind of like government BTW) with no bearing on reality. And I can understand this view for sure. This perversion of Christs's teachings is also why I don't like the word 'Christianity'. The early believers called themselves 'followers of the way' and that serves as a great distinction between what we see being done in God's name as opposed to what the Bible actually teaches. It also doesn't pay to separate out the bad behaviour of one group of people while ignoring the same behaviour, or worse, in other groups. That always comes across as simple tribalism.

          So when people say "look at all the bad stuff Christianity has done" it pays to remember that ANY organisation with any amount of power has always done the same and 2) those behaviours, as I said in the last post, cannot in anyway be reconciled to the Christ of the Bible. They also tend ignore all the GOOD that has been accomplished by religion. The problem is that most people have never read it, including most Christians and even less make the effort to understand it. :)

          Hope that communicates a bit better. :)

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:38

          @EightImmortals: Ehrman listing real scholars who refute your claims.
          https://youtu.be/wyABBZe5o68?t=4637

        • EightImmortals on 12/08/2018 - 12:40

          @Major Mess: meh that's 2 hours, care to summarise?

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 14:13

          @Major Mess: since you quote Bart Erhman let see if you agree with some of his statement: Melinda Penner of Stand to Reason writes,

          Ehrman and Metzger state in that book that we can have a high degree of confidence that we can reconstruct the original text of the New Testament, the text that is in the Bibles we use, because of the abundance of textual evidence we have to compare. The variations are largely minor and don’t obscure our ability to construct an accurate text. The 4th edition of this work was published in 2005 – the same year Ehrman published Misquoting Jesus, which relies on the same body of information and offers no new or different evidence to state the opposite conclusion.

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 16:04
          +1

          @gto21: Erhman is on the record saying that we can never know what a historic Jesus taught. It is your mate Wallace who argues it can be reconstructed.

          Paul never mentions an earthly Iesus. He seems to follow the doctrine of an established tradition, he declares he is continuing earlier understandings. Paul seems to be related to the doctrine of Philo of ALexandria and the Jewish logos. In that doctrine Iesus was created at the creation of the earth, as Gods first born son. He is then disguised as a human to fool the demons in the various levels of hell, so that they will execute him and unknowingly achieve the everlasting sacrifice for sin. Had they recognised him, they would have run for hell as it also ends their power. This all happened at the beginning of time. The later Gospel stories, are just that, and being based on Mark are a retelling of The Odyssey.

          I don't think there is any continuous tradition at all. The historic record, as in actual artefacts shows no evidence of the term "Christians" until the 5th to 8th Century in Codex Alexandianus. Siniaticus and all other physical items earlier refer to Chrestians. I have recently started to see a much more important relationship between the whole of later chrestianity/chritianity and Marcion - I suspect he the Marcions were the biggest influence on what would become Nicean Chrestianity and then Christianity. The pre 4th century Chrestians see to be more compatible with paganism. The early bibles must be dated carbon dated - none of the early manuscripts have been, and without, all dating is guess work.

          Chrestian magical Papyri - 4th Century
          "Excellent rite for driving out daimons: Formula to be spoken over his head:
          Place olive branches before him,and stand behind him and say:
          “Hail, God of Abraham; hail, God of Isaac; hail, God of Jacob;
          Jesus Chrestos, the Holy Spirit, the Son of the Father,
          who is above the Seven, who is within the Seven………"

          Info on Chrestian artefacts. - Actual physical items.

          http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/chrestians%20christian…

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 16:06

          @EightImmortals: meh, that link to the timeline takes maybe two minutes. But hey, it's not like you are claiming this whole subject is the most important of subjects?

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 16:48

          @Major Mess: non of Manuscript have been carbon dated but yet you claim the papyrii are from the 4th century. HAHAHA proving they are carbon dated. You can't guess since for example the dead sea scroll can be better preserved than some later papyrii. They are carbon dated. That what happened when you don't know what your talking about but want to sound smart. P66 has been cardon dated and is early 2 century by the way. Anyway why are you trying to debate on a topic you have zero knowledge?

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 16:57

          @Major Mess: you did not answer my question anyway and diverted. Bart Erhman says on thing to the media and book. And he says different thing in the appendix of the same book and his scholarly work. He can lie to the public this is how he earn money. But he can't lie about his scholarly work, since other scholars will school him. So back to the question. Do you agree with the statement of Bart Ehrman provided above? Stop diverting and give a direct answer. Even Daniel Wallance mentioned his inconsistency in debates and the public laughed.

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 18:05
          +1

          @gto21: Are you a teenager or is it the scary facts that have fired off the expected ad hominem reaction? No one is expected to respect another person's beliefs, but you can still at least try to be somewhat civil. Are you Catholic?

          I have not mentioned P66 at all, so don't understand what you are on about there. Having brought it up please provide a link to the carbon dating of that papyrus.

          The 4th Century dating is not mine and I do not know if any of the Oxyrhynchus "rubbish tip" material has been carbon dated, but the towns history is well known and a lot of the found manuscripts have dates, or dateable subjects. I was referring to the "big" theological manuscripts, which have not been carbon dated.

          Have a bit of a read about Cognitive dissonance. Though as a big time sufferer it may be difficult to grasp.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 20:23

          @Major Mess: HAHAHA "big" theological manuscripts. Most people I have a decent conversation with them. But with you, I have to laugh. I'm not trying to put you down. You have no idea what you're talking about. You can't even figure out why I brought up p66. If you don't know the carbon dating for p66. You obviously don't know the basis for textual criticism. It's a shame most people don't study it if more people understand all your logical fallacies, it's hilarious. It's not even logical fallacies actually, your using term you don't know the meaning it's just incoherent. Most of my comment I don't laugh at those people. But you I can't take you seriously. Using big words that you don't know the meaning don't make you sound smart but funny.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 22:44

          @EightImmortals:

          Thanks EightImmortals. I have no problem with the god concept. It's just unproven. And any wellmeaning, balanced person is fine with me.
          Enjoyed your replies.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 22:56

          @Major Mess:

          Are you Catholic?

          This guy's newly inspired christian, IMO.
          Catholics are much simpler, calmer and quieter (and deeply arrogant). Not trying to change the world so obviously.

          Really, if I tried to push alien abduction literature here, I would anticipate a similar reception.

          Oh well, the newborns keep popping up to try us.

        • Dave Id on 13/08/2018 - 00:08

          @gto21:

          Nor aware Papyrus 66 had been carbon dated.

        • gto21 on 13/08/2018 - 18:21

          @Dave Id: Anyone who studies textual criticism, will know this claim is nonsensical. I don't know where you're getting this information but its bad scholarship. It is better for me to ignore your comments and speak to an individual who actually studied textual criticism. It does not get anywhere having an interaction with an individual who does not understand the terminology they are using.

        • Dave Id on 13/08/2018 - 18:29

          @gto21:

          How about a link to P66 carbon dating?

          Nothing to do with textual criticism.

          You ain't very good at this,are you!

        • Dave Id on 13/08/2018 - 19:02

          @gto21:

          Absolute garbage.

          Your English is pathetic,so best you don't take potshots at your betters.

          You show almost total lack of comprehension.

      • Wystri Warrick on 12/08/2018 - 11:09

        This is not a competition, this is about human life, there can be no competition where human life is concerned.

      • Rayve on 12/08/2018 - 11:10
        +4

        In most cases by people who claimed their 'god' was real and said to kill those who believed differently. Christians for example have done that in the name of their beliefs and continue to do so, still killing 'witches' because they think a fictitious being said to do so.

        • Major Mess on 12/08/2018 - 12:27

          Yep, the witch killing thing has really taken off again over the last thirty years in Africa and South America.

        • gto21 on 12/08/2018 - 20:28

          You won't be able to show me a prescriptive command to kill witches. It's just non-biblical. I repeat prescriptive, not descriptive. If your here just for the sake of arguing you will need up showing me a descriptive verse to "prove" your point. Your comment is also irrelevant as that not what the course is about.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/08/2018 - 23:14
          +1

          @Major Mess:
          Even one female witch killed under law in saudi arabia around 2006 from memory.
          I think germany still have elaborate laws to deal with witchcraft, not 100% sure though.
          Googles third entry when I Searched a year or so ago, Was titled "Witchcraft is rampant in christian churches", or similar.
          Religious practice stimulating the reptilian brain, third eye (eg. lizard vision), and the collective telepathic focus of the 6th sense to the exclusion of the other five senses, is specifically what gives abrahamian religions and there counterpart governments their advantage to maintain power over the masses.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join