PayPal Reverse Charge by an OzBargain User

Ljohnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:05

Hi all, hopefully someone has experience with what happened to me. I sold one of those Fortnite digital codes that came bundled with the PS4 Pro to a user on ozbargain on Wednesday and today I get an unauthorised transaction reverse charge email from PayPal that the user filed, it’s currently under review.

I already transferred the funds to my bank the day he paid and removed my cards from my account but forgot to remove my bank details cause I was waiting for the payment to clear. Now my bank details are still attached and I can’t remove them and my PayPal balance is showing -$65 (I had 0 balance and he payed $65).

He sent the money via friends and family, I thought I was going to be covered from low life scammers with this option.

Has anyone been in the same boat or have an idea what will happen? I have no option to respond to the dispute, it just says it’s under review - I really hope it just doesn’t get closed without me getting a say.

I did contact them via message through the resolution centre with the case number etc saying he’s trying to scam me but I had no option of showing them his private messages.

My bank says they can’t do anything until PayPal has taken the money out of my account, then they can reverse it somehow but I have to notify them the day after it happens for some reason.

General Discussion

Comments

  • indium on 27/07/2018 - 19:12
    +6

    Not sure about advice on getting your money back but you should definitely name them to prevent this occurring to anyone else, provide evidence if possible to avoid a witch hunt. I've sold and bought plenty of digital items through ozbargain, only once the user had a new account, I'm sure they were legit but I chose not to do business with them to be safe. Although the mods aren't the police, I would like to think that if someone did rip me off on this site and I provided evidence to them they would at least ban them, I could be wrong though.

    • Savas on 27/07/2018 - 23:04
      +1

      yeah but that would just make them angry, better to get the money back first. or if its a throwaway account probably wont matter

  • hj0809 on 27/07/2018 - 19:14
    +9

    Name and shame

    • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 27/07/2018 - 19:16
      +2

      Without hearing both sides of the story It's unwise to 'name and shame'. Let's give a chance for the accused to state their side of the story..

  • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2018 - 19:14
    +4

    Devil's advocate: why did you remove your details as soon as you received payment?

    • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:18
      +3

      His PayPal account had a fake address which I found suspicious. I refunded his payment and said I’d only post it physically to his real address which he lied about again (it was the house across the street from the address he finally admitted to being his).

      After reading about people being scammed from selling digital items I didn’t want it happening to me so I removed my cards from my account after I have him the code

      • pais on 28/07/2018 - 11:53
        +5

        Your first paragraph contains two red flags when trading.

      • lint on 30/07/2018 - 10:37

        Why did you continue with the transaction when there were so many red flags? :/

        • johnnytran on 30/07/2018 - 11:53

          He said he was cautious giving out his personal address and I got the code for free so thought it was worth the risk

  • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:15

    It’s a new user account, they signed up this week - not sure if it’s against the rules to name them publicly? I don’t want this thread removed. Happy to provide proof to a mod to check their IP address and ban their real account if they have one.

  • hogwarts on 27/07/2018 - 19:16
    +13

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/392768 - reading the comments I would be suspicious for a new user joining, not negotiating looking through classifieds. Not naming and shaming but you can look for the only person commenting ;)

    • aragornelessar on 29/07/2018 - 18:07
      +1

      Perhaps it was the alluring avatar!

      • BuyoTheCat on 30/07/2018 - 09:24

        It was a stormtrooper.

  • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:18
    +2

    Looking at the post the user only just registered to buy it so was intending to scam all along.

    Never use friends and family when selling no matter how much you trust the site the user has come from.

    • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:21

      I thought friends and family was the safer option and sellers usually end up out of pocket from disputes relating to payments made via goods payment. I guess I have it backwards?

      • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:23

        It's harder to dispute if an issue arises.

        • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:26

          Harder for me as a seller or the buyer? I thought it was harder for the buyer? Hopefully PayPal lets me have my say, I’ll probably call them tomorrow if I don’t get a response to my message.

        • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:28

          @johnnytran: for you. you are selling goods & services but have transacted it as family & friends so the normal seller protection isn't triggered.

        • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:30
          +1

          @johnnytran: From Paypal "A friends / family (or gift payment) is intended as a transfer of funds from family or friends to one another. For this reason, there is no processing fee when payment is made with bank or PayPal balance.
          However as it is a “gift” payment, there is also no Seller protection as no goods or services should have been exchanged."

        • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:33

          @dylo:

          Damn. I’ve read in comments people saying to use friends and family and thought it was the safer option. Should have looked into it further. At least my bank guaranteed if PayPal takes the money out they’ll reverse it cause it’s my only funding source attached to my PayPal account. Had I left my cards, I would be screwed

        • CyberMurning on 27/07/2018 - 19:33

          @dylo: yes should be no seller protection but there is buyer protection? how unfair

        • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:34

          @johnnytran: A quick google will guide you to numerous paypal community threads regarding the same issue.

        • dylo on 27/07/2018 - 19:36

          @johnnytran: make sure you start a talk with a mod thread and report user to be banned.

        • Kangal on 27/07/2018 - 19:41

          @dylo:

          Banning the user doesn't make sense. Their OzB account is fake too. They can easily make a new account, and using a VPN makes it impossible for the mods to recognise him.

      • John Kimble on 27/07/2018 - 20:18

        Yes, friends and family is for friends and family. Ie people you know and trust.

  • Axelstrife on 27/07/2018 - 19:39

    Since it's a digital item i don't think paypal offers seller protection which means you're screwed most likely.
    I just went though this same thing which ended yesterday, I sold an item on ebay and had tracking number so the case ended in my favor but still took a week for them to do so.

    • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 19:52

      The dispute was filed as an “unauthorised transaction” - surely if I show them our whole time stamped conversation they can match it to the PayPal transactions and see that it isn’t an unauthorised transaction.. but who knows if I’ll even get a say?

      • Axelstrife on 27/07/2018 - 20:09

        Yeah so was mine despite having proof their eBay account and tracking number that they bought it (no idea what they were thinking)

        I seen after writing that comment that it was friends and family.
        You can try but pretty much guaranteed you will loose.
        Unless the conversation has solid proof that the owner of the paypal account did buy it i wouldn't count on winning.

      • HighAndDry on 30/07/2018 - 12:33
        +1

        I'm pretty sure "Unauthorized transaction" isn't what you're talking about, but rather the Paypal account holder telling Paypal someone hacked their account and/or otherwise used it without being the account holder. And that's possible - you have no idea if the Paypal account that paid you was actually the buyer's or one they hacked (you said the address was wrong - makes sense if they're using a Paypal account that's not theirs).

        Your evidence wouldn't really matter at that point - it wasn't the Paypal account holder talking to you, just someone who'd hacked that account.

  • altomic on 27/07/2018 - 20:02
    +7

    Don't sell to new users.

    • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 20:08
      +2

      Lesson learnt. The address he gave me does match someone of the same surname his PayPal account had. I do have the phone number to that address and will be giving it a call.. or two if this doesn’t end in my favour

      • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2018 - 20:34
        +2

        Is the address far away?
        Pay them a visit.

        • johnnytran on 27/07/2018 - 20:39

          Would love to but I’m in NSW, they’re in Perth

        • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2018 - 22:14
          +5

          @johnnytran:

          Sounds like you're due for a holiday in Perth

        • MeesusEff on 28/07/2018 - 03:11
          +2

          @johnnytran: out of curiosity, what suburb is it? Can sorta tell the demographic from it usually 🧐 haha

        • Ayanami on 28/07/2018 - 09:28
          +4

          @johnnytran:

          I am in Perth. Need a hand?

          Also you must have $100,000 under the hood of that car.

        • johnnytran on 28/07/2018 - 11:03

          @kza2610:

          Dalkeith

        • MeesusEff on 28/07/2018 - 11:12

          @johnnytran: awww shizz.. Swanky as suburb…

        • johnnytran on 28/07/2018 - 11:53

          @kza2610:

          Not sure if it’s his real address though. He could have just looked up someone’s address and used their surname as his and in his email. He’s gone through a lot of trouble for this lol. If this is the case hopefully PayPal can see it’s a newly created account and looks dodgy or he’s done reverse charges before under those details.

          I don’t think it’s his real details though cause who would be stupid enough to do a reverse charge when I have their full name and address/phone number.

    • magic8ballgag on 28/07/2018 - 09:11

      Why does this matter? A long-term registered user scammed me and a few other members not too long ago.

      • John Kimble on 28/07/2018 - 09:13

        Because the chances of a long term user scamming is less than a brand new user scamming. Simples.

        • magic8ballgag on 28/07/2018 - 09:14
          +2

          Simples.

          It was a rhetorical question - it doesn't matter, people are shit.

        • John Kimble on 28/07/2018 - 09:17

          @Lorindor: Agreed.

  • Godric on 27/07/2018 - 20:06

    Live on and let learn

  • sparkles on 27/07/2018 - 20:40
    +2

    There is no seller protection on items delivered digitally. This is a common scam and sellers willing to email codes are the target. They receive the code and promptly reverse the payment usually made with a stolen card.

    I have sold xBox paper based codes before on eBay, but insist on posting the item registered (I also take a photo before I send it). It's the only way to cover yourself from this scam. Genuine buyers will be fine with this. Do not ever fall for people asking you to urgently message/email the codes. 100% scammers.

    • plmko on 27/07/2018 - 22:33

      It's funny the amount of scammers, I once had 10 Xbox codes I got free and sold them for $10 each. 9/10 sales were from scammers on Ebay, but I didn't really care because 1 sale was still profit for me, just bemused at the hit rate.

      I don't think selling codes in general through Paypal is a good idea even if you send the card physically, there is no defense against a chargeback. Either you wear the cost or Paypal does through reimbursement, the scammer profits either way.

  • ScuseMe on 27/07/2018 - 23:58
    +3

    Bloody scammers creeping into Ozbargain as well. Thanks to Hogwarts detective work we all know who this low life scumbag is.

  • garffi on 28/07/2018 - 00:08

    Thankfully I haven't had any users scam me yet… Just for next time, check if they're a long term user and if they've bought anything from someone before. If it's new account see if they're active on this site such as no. of posts and comments. This will at least wipe out most scammers. Sucks that this is happening on ozb more often now.

  • Melb69 on 28/07/2018 - 04:11
    +1

    Suspect its happening more as site getting more popular and the dlc are popping up on scammers searches. Wipe them out. As usual always be cautious as seller. If it feels dodge it probably is.

  • stirlo on 28/07/2018 - 14:18
    +1

    $65 is cheap for this life lesson, Cost me $900 when I got paypal scammed. Next time cash only!!!

  • drprox on 29/07/2018 - 15:53

    Had this happen to me and PMT was "friends and family". Long story short he had used a stolen account so once the account owner found out they contacted PayPal. I lost miserably.

    • johnnytran on 29/07/2018 - 17:27
      +1

      Jeez these no lifers go through a lot of effort to scam people. I hope it’s not the case for me - even if it is, my bank guaranteed I’ll get the money back if PayPal takes it out of my account.

      • drprox on 29/07/2018 - 19:10

        Really? Unsure how they can do that really. But guess if it's against your credit card maybe. I should add PayPal told me to return my account to credit in 30 days then started calling to harass me within 7 :/

        • johnnytran on 29/07/2018 - 21:53

          Yeah my bank said luckily I only have my bank as a funding source, had I left my cards attached they wouldn't be able to stop it. Not sure how it works tbh, but we'll see..

  • Bren20 on 29/07/2018 - 18:36

    Be aware if you chargeback PayPal they will likely ban you, and possibly any associated accounts.

    • johnnytran on 29/07/2018 - 21:52

      Meh I don't care tbh, not going to return this dudes money if I have the choice. He can enjoy his stupid $65 fortnite outfit lol

      • 0FoxGiven on 30/07/2018 - 20:55

        It would have sold for close to $200 on ebay (Mine sold for 210)

        • johnnytran on 30/07/2018 - 21:32

          I had it listed there, it stayed in $50 so I unlisted it. I have another for sale but there doesn’t seem to be much interest. I’d only accept a cash deposit into my bank account now… unless that can be reversed as well? Lol

      • Ughhh on 30/07/2018 - 21:01

        If your account is in the negatives, it means Paypal has already given back the buyers money.

        I've read stories about Paypal forwarding the debt to debt collectors, this may or may not be something to care about.

        • johnnytran on 30/07/2018 - 23:28

          It was in the negatives as soon as I got the email from them regarding the charge back being under review. So they didn’t even investigate, they’ve refunded the scammer instantly.

          They haven’t tried taking anything out of my bank yet. They did send me a generic response to my complaint, pointing to their FAQ lol so I responded again stating my case. I predict their next response will some generic bs that I need to pay up. If they’ve refunded the scammer then that’s their problem, not mine.

        • aragornelessar on 31/07/2018 - 00:51

          @johnnytran:

          From my experience with Paypal via their messaging system, every single reply is a generic bs response. The person who replied to the message would simply ask for information I gave them in the previous reply. And then the next person would follow up and the same thing again… I just gave up trying to claim seller protection

  • johnnytran on 31/07/2018 - 17:21
    +4

    UPDATE: PayPal have denied his reverse charge and my balance is now out of the negatives. His last sign on was Friday, doesn’t look like he was banned?

    Now, I won’t make the mistake of selling my next code via PayPal. Will only accept deposit into my bank account, unless that’s reversible as well? Hmm..

    • HighAndDry on 01/08/2018 - 15:10
      +1

      Cash on redemption. Safest way, just not the most convenient. Glad to see it got resolved okay.

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