Big problem with HECS-HELP debt

LMyone888 on 13/07/2018 - 10:23

Hi Ozbargainers, Good morning

I am stuck with HECS Debt I incurred for my Bachelor degree Course (2009-2012) in Monash University.

I am an Australian citizen and I have been incurring fees as a domestic paying student. As I am aware, domestic paying fees are no longer existing and all Australia Citizens are paying Commonwealth Supported Place (CSP) fees.

My income has reached the repayment income threshold and I have been paying off my debt through the income tax system for the last 4 years. But indexation has made it worse!

I was charged a 2011’ Combined HELP file – Higher Education -$17120 and
2012’ Combined HELP file – Higher Education -$17120
My total debt todate is $99,917.

Is there any avenue or appeal of reducing quantum of payment $100,134 that Ozbargainers might know of? With my lack of knowledge I have exhausted all my options.

Your feedback would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Financial

Comments

  • whooah1979 on 13/07/2018 - 20:56
    +1

    I am an Australian citizen

    Your post doesn’t read like an Aussie. Were you by any chance a non-citizen at the time of your enrolment?

    • Maxxjet on 13/07/2018 - 22:15
      +3

      By asking question in this manner , OP lost it already

  • D6C1 on 13/07/2018 - 22:13
    +4

    OP signed up today to write this post. No further comments after.

    Smells fishy

    • Ughhh on 13/07/2018 - 23:26
      +4

      Op signed up a year ago, this is his first magnificent post

      • D6C1 on 14/07/2018 - 01:23
        +1

        Ughhh my bad

  • Samsungnote10 on 13/07/2018 - 23:20
    +1

    How is any of this complaining of getting a credit card, taking advanatge of interest free period or balance transfer period.
    Spending the money on anythinf

    And then complaining and saying that they dont have to pay the full amount?

  • ladybug1 on 14/07/2018 - 00:30
    +3

    Sorry, I don't understand how this is adding up to $100k. Would you mind explaining that?

    • CMH on 14/07/2018 - 01:51

      OP can explain it, but you need to spend $99,917 on an accounting course to get it.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2018 - 07:02
    +1

    Firstly, that is a huge debt for just an undergraduate degree!
    Secondly, you’ll have to repay it until you die (not even bankruptcy cancels it). But there are options to defer if it’s causing you financial hardship.

    https://www.studyassist.gov.au/paying-back-my-loan/loan-repa…

  • watwatwat on 14/07/2018 - 07:58
    +1

    "Is there any avenue or appeal of reducing quantum of payment $100,134 that Ozbargainers might know of?" - move to a country that is not the UK and never come back to Australia and you'll be fine.

    Otherwise, you need to pay back the money you borrowed. It's funny how you seem surprised how much the debt is. You didn't read the documents when you signed up to your course and deterred to HECS your fees? Now wait until 4 years after you graduate to deduce that it is too expensive for you?

    • Ghost47 on 14/07/2018 - 08:30
      +1

      Wasn't the government looking into chasing people who move overseas for their HECS debt? I swore I read it in the news recently. It's still a way off for sure, but they'll crack down on it eventually.

      • watwatwat on 14/07/2018 - 16:18
        +2

        Lol what are they going to do if you don't come back? Invade America to have you deported?

        • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2018 - 21:59
          +1

          We have reciprocal tax agreements with some countries.

    • macrocephalic on 14/07/2018 - 16:52
      +2

      Not sure about the OP, but I was had only just turned 17 when I signed all the paperwork and started university. I'm sure I didn't fully understand the ramifications of it. Fortunately I wasn't taken advantage of in any way.

      • spb on 15/07/2018 - 23:45

        I took a pretty blaise approach to the debt as well but at the very least I looked at how much I was being charged per semester,roughly what CPI was and how it was applying to my debt.

  • greatlamp on 14/07/2018 - 08:14
    +1

    If you got a good job out of it, it was a good decision. Don't let the 100k debt get you down.

    Your alternative was choosing a CSP course, or not going to University. How much have you earned after doing the course?

    Invest your savings wisely, if you buy a house your perspective on 100k debt will change.

    Yes it is pretty shit that some people who did the same course as you will have paid next to nothing to do it, that isn't fair. You could also have been stuck in a much poorer country and never had the opportunity to improve your life.

    You literally never need to repay the debt if you don't want to, even in Australia, use tax deductions to reduce your taxable income and you won't be repaying your HECS.

    There are no tricks to reduce the debt though, only two guarantees in life, death and taxes

    Send me a private message if you want advice I can't post here

  • DarkOz on 14/07/2018 - 08:36
    +1

    Just pay up and stop wihinning! It's an interest free loan and you only pay if you earn over a certain amount. Australians are so privileged to have HECS-HELP. People in many other countries can't get into Universities because they can't afford to pay for it.

    Also, you studied for 4 years. Don't you ever check your bills each semester?

    I racked up a big amount in HECS/SFSS 20 years ago and I can't be happier paying it off 15 years later. It's been my pleasure.

    • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 10:29
      -2

      That ladies and gentlemen is where the great Aussie dream went. RIP.

      • HighAndDry on 16/07/2018 - 10:41

        What part of the following is confusing to you?

        1. Education costs money in terms of professor salaries, resources, and infrastructure and upkeep.

        2. Education benefits the individual obtaining that education far more than anyone else.

        3. OP took on debts to fund their education.

        4. OP received an education.

        5. OP is obviously getting a benefit from that education.

        6. OP is expected to pay back what they owe.

        • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 10:51
          -5

          What part of the following is confusing to you?

          The part where an education puts you in debt for the rest of your life, unlike the previous 3 generations.

          Education costs money in terms of professor salaries, resources, and infrastructure and upkeep.

          Sure. It shouldn't cost $100k for an undergrad degree.

          Education benefits the individual obtaining that education far more than anyone else.

          So you consider being in debt through your 20s and early 30s a benefit? OP may be in a position where he's now able to earn more but much of that benefit is being garnished. OP is relatively lucky. Plenty get into this sort of debt and can't pay it off so end up worse off than if they hadn't studied hard and gotten the "better" job.

          In the meantime society benefits as a whole from having OPs expertise available. If it didn't benefit, that university place should not exist.

          OP took on debts to fund their education.

          Because 17 and 18 year olds are known for being wise and experienced with their cash.

          OP received an education.

          And because he has to pay it off may not be better off than he would have been without the education for a good decade or more. Now queue whining about kids never moving out of home.

          OP is obviously getting a benefit from that education.

          Now you're just repeating yourself. Perhaps if you had a better education…?

          OP is expected to pay back what they owe.

          OP should never have owed it in the first place.

          Now what are you confused about? If you're so fond of living in a country where education and basic health care make you a wage slave, go move somewhere else where that's already the case instead of taking Australia down. I'd be happy to pay more tax if it meant kids didn't get into debt.

        • HighAndDry on 16/07/2018 - 15:33

          @syousef:

          If you're so fond of living in a country where education and basic health care make you a wage slave

          Good news, at least after all that we pinpointed where your confusion is. Bad news is I think it's terminal.

          Just to be very clear - you realise OP doesn't need to pay back anything until and unless they make above a certain income level, right? And that education and health services (why are we talking about this?) cost real money and resources, that have to be paid by someone, right?

          Though from your comments elsewhere, I get your perspective because I'm sure you're not paying for any portion of it.

        • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 17:21
          -1

          @HighAndDry:

          Good news, at least after all that we pinpointed where your confusion is. Bad news is I think it's terminal.

          What do you have your degree in? PhD in Internet trolling and bullying?

          That line added nothing to the discussion.

          Just to be very clear - you realise OP doesn't need to pay back anything until and unless they make above a certain income level, right?

          And you realize that level has just been lowered right? And that OPs debt grows at 3% compound while he isn't paying it off?

          Your point is what? That he's fine if he stays poor? How the hell does that help him buy a house or afford to raise a family?

          And that education and health services (why are we talking about this?) cost real money and resources, that have to be paid by someone, right?

          I for one would be fine with having a sizeable rise in my tax if it meant people got educated and had their health taken care of. It's what a decent society does.

          Though from your comments elsewhere, I get your perspective because I'm sure you're not paying for any portion of it.

          Did your education cover ad hominem.

          I'm not about to make my wage public but I did pretty well this year thanks very much and paid considerable tax. (I don't fudge my taxes or shirk responsibilities of what I owe). But you know literally nothing about me. You know what they say about making assumptions don't you?

        • HighAndDry on 16/07/2018 - 17:45

          @syousef:

          Edit: For sake of brevity, the bottom line is this: OP received an interest free loan to obtain an education, neither of which they're entitled to under any system of morals, laws or ethics. Instead of being grateful or showing some appreciation, they're trying to see how to take even more advantage of the system.

          For chrissakes, someone disagreeing with you online is not "bullying". To answer various parts of your comment in no particular order:

          1. Unless you wasted your money on an Arts degree, no curriculum in Australia includes "ad hominem", and rightly so - I've never seen it be useful anywhere but internet arguments;

          2. Almost 50% of Australians are zero-net-taxpayers, putting aside your personal circumstances (that was unnecessary snark and I do withdraw that part of my previous comment);

          3. The point stands that OP only pays back HECS debt if they're making money that allows them to pay it back, and is not charged any interest (again, indexation is inflation, not interest); and

          4. Nothing stops you from voluntarily donating to universities and creating scholarships named after you - I don't care what you do with your money and I certainly wouldn't feel entitled to tell you what you can do with it - all I'm asking in return is that you respect that of other people too.

        • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 18:13
          -1

          @HighAndDry:

          For brevity:

          A world in which there is almost no possibility that you get ahead despite years of study is a world in which you are a slave.

          You know full well that in order to donate and create a scholarship I'd need much more wealth than a decent job is ever going to provide me with.

          Your point about indexation not being interest is moot while wages stagnate. The net effect is that if you don't pay off your debt in a timely fashion you end up deeper and deeper in the hole.

          (By the way any degree that teaches formal and informal logic would have a section on logical fallacies and teach about ad hominem.)

        • HighAndDry on 16/07/2018 - 18:17

          @syousef:

          A world in which there is almost no possibility that you get ahead despite years of study is a world in which you are a slave.

          Sure. Except, as you can see if you just take a look around - that world only exists in your imagination. Plenty of people are able to get ahead despite the burden of a world class education obtained with an interest-free loan.

          You know full well that in order to donate and create a scholarship I'd need much more wealth than a decent job is ever going to provide me with.

          That's kind of my point - below that level, you're more likely than not to be a net zero taxpayer. I'm not rich, but I certainly don't think that having others pay for my stuff is a right or entitlement. And if you can't afford to pay for others' stuff either, then you're in no position to say "Well I'd be willing to pay more tax if…." because no, ultimately you're forcing others to pay for it.

          (By the way any degree that teaches formal and informal logic would have a section on logical fallacies and teach about ad hominem.)

          Right. Arts degrees.

        • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 20:02
          -1

          @HighAndDry:

          Sure. Except, as you can see if you just take a look around - that world only exists in your imagination. Plenty of people are able to get ahead despite the burden of a world class education obtained with an interest-free loan.

          Plenty of people working but living below the poverty line too? Is that in my head? You want to see the stats? Want to see how much worse it's been getting? You're delusional! You probably think kids these days can't afford a house because they eat smashed av at the cafe too.

          That's kind of my point - below that level, you're more likely than not to be a net zero taxpayer. I'm not rich, but I certainly don't think that having others pay for my stuff is a right or entitlement.

          So are billionaires who inherit entitled to a life where money is never an issue by right of birth?? Is it okay with you that wealth is being concentrated to the point that the few really rich can't even use those resources in their lifetime?

          And if you can't afford to pay for others' stuff either, then you're in no position to say "Well I'd be willing to pay more tax if…." because no, ultimately you're forcing others to pay for it.

          On my own I can't do anything. Raise tax by 3-5% and close off the loopholes and there would be plenty of money to go around. Dp you use the roads? Medicare? Do you pay a subsidized fare to get to and from work? Are you okay with all of that? Some things should be collectivley paid for because we all benefit. Health care and education are the 2 top ones. Because you aren't likely to pull yourself out of hardship and contribute if you're sick, ignorant or stupid.

          (By the way any degree that teaches formal and informal logic would have a section on logical fallacies and teach about ad hominem.)

          Right. Arts degrees.

          Yes because critical thinking and formal logic are worthless skills that belong in the arts department? THIS attitude right here is why fools walk around believing the earth is flat, the moon landings were a hoax, vaccines are bad, flouride in the water is there to make their junk small and man made global warming is BS.

        • HighAndDry on 16/07/2018 - 20:11

          @syousef: Seriously, lay off the left-wing kool-aid. You sound like a sheet of liberal bumper stickers.

        • syousef on 16/07/2018 - 22:44
          -1

          @HighAndDry:

          Seriously, lay off the left-wing kool-aid. You sound like a sheet of liberal bumper stickers.

          Such a mature and well reasoned response.

          Stop wasting my time.

        • Eeples on 17/07/2018 - 00:32

          @syousef:

          Damn, I’ve run out of negs.

        • syousef on 17/07/2018 - 04:54
          -1

          @Eeples:

          That's okay. I'm sure if you put your hands over your ears and shout "la la la" at the top of your lungs it'll be just as effective.

        • syousef on 19/07/2018 - 07:30

          @Eeples:

          Here's a concise summary of the situation in the US. In America student loan debt is out of control. Millennials are much worse off than their parents. This is NOT what we should be aspiring to!

          https://www.facebook.com/TheYoungTurks/videos/10155825963224…

        • Eeples on 21/07/2018 - 00:51

          @syousef:

          In our country I think house prices is the better lens to view intergenerational inequity. So much so that in my opinion a tertiary education (for those who aren’t trade orientated) is one of few vehicles to home ownership. Surely it’s worth the price.

        • syousef on 24/07/2018 - 01:15

          @Eeples:

          You're stuck living in the 1980s. A tertiary degree no longer leads to home hownership. Check the stats on this generation.

  • AsSeenOnTv on 14/07/2018 - 08:42

    There are options for getting it waived. I have never looked at them but there are details at this link. https://www.finance.gov.au/resource-management/discretionary…

  • Micko179 on 14/07/2018 - 09:26
    +1

    Who else is wondering if OP has Prestige 888 personalised plates on his top of the line 2018 Mercedes?! Are Prestige plates as ridiculously priced in Victoria as the are here in QLD?

    • kurisu on 15/07/2018 - 16:48

      A set of "Prestige" style custom plates costs $1,503.07 (including card payment fee) in Victoria (assuming they're choosing a new custom combination).

  • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2018 - 09:29
    +2

    I feel that OP has intentionally obfuscated the details. I like to take stories on face value as fake stories = irrelevant advice. There's nothing to take on face value here.

    OP has not disclosed any details of his course nor type of position (CSP vs full fee) yet there is a strong emphasis on full fee paying courses no longer exist. More ambiguity around timing of citizenship.

    No mention of completion of the course either. There is a CSP clause that if you do not comple the course, ie. flunk, you will be liable for the full cost of the undertaking.

    The debt incurred as a full fee paying domestic student doesn't disappear because "all citizens" allegedly have CSP places now.

  • No ONE on 14/07/2018 - 09:54
    +4

    Mod should close this thread as OP has not replied to a single question.

    //thread closed.

    • R-Man on 14/07/2018 - 12:07
      +3

      I agree, this has been gr8 b8

  • chk on 14/07/2018 - 10:06
    +1

    Op if I can understand this correctly, you either didn't understand what sort of fees you were signing yourself up for (since fee help is around 2-3 times more expensive) or your enter score as it was called back then was too low to get a subsidised position?

  • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2018 - 11:50

    You need to be a little clearer about your circumstances OP as there's not enough there to go on.

    For example what was your debt at the start of 2011, 2012?

    BTW the smart money is never to pay it off if it's indexed to inflation. That indexing means it doesn't grow in real terms. Otherwise the risk is you effectively convert a HECS debt, which is like no other debt, to say a bank debt when you borrow for a car/house etc later on. With those later debts you need to pay it off whether you have an income or not, the interest rate is at commercial rates (well above inflation), and the bank will come after you if you don't pay.

  • T1OOO on 14/07/2018 - 14:24

    My mate left the country and the debt was whipped. Now they have shut that loop hole though.

    • macrocephalic on 14/07/2018 - 16:54
      +3

      It's never wiped, they just can't necessarily collect it if you don't have income in Australia (or a nation willing to collect it for Australia).

  • Herbse on 14/07/2018 - 14:48

    Pay it, scab.

  • OG Puppy Banana on 14/07/2018 - 15:25
    +1

    I too was enrolled at Monash at that time.

    No way was any CSP course $4200 a unit. That number is thereabouts the cost of full fee and international enrolment fees for med/sci/eng courses at Monash.

    If a domestic student was enrolled to a CSP course, the government pays the $4200 for each unit on the course census date and the student accrues $1200 of debt. Multiply this by 24 units and a student debt for a CSP degree is $28-$30k with the tax payer picking up the other $70k.

    In your case, you probably enrolled in a non CSP offer and took FEE-HELP, thus, it stands to reason why your total debt is close to 100k.

    Also, not all Citizens, kiwis and exceptions are awarded CSP. The government picks courses that they believe will be productive for society, caps them and then ATAR pretty ranking pretty much does the rest.

    Some CSP in post grad, but even then you have to have done really well in undergrad to get the taxman to give you a 50k subsidy.

  • TrevBargn on 14/07/2018 - 15:30
    -1

    This ain't going to be a popular comment, but have you considered emigrating?

    It depends on your profession, but for qualified graduates, you will probably have a higher standard of living in the US or Canada. You will also not be competing with skilled migrants to Australia who do not have to pay off this debt, and can out compete you on price.

    • whooah1979 on 14/07/2018 - 20:59
      +2

      you will probably have a higher standard of living in the US or Canada.

      This is unlikely. Australia is ranked number 2 on the hdi. The USA and Canada share 10th place.

  • HeWhoKnows on 14/07/2018 - 15:40
    -2

    OMG
    No chance of starting a family or buying a home with that debt.
    Not a good start to life after study.

    Anyway maybe you need to buy an investment proiperty and negatively gear to reduce your taxable income and get ahead in life at the same time or dump a heap of money into super and take the tax deduction (up to $25K pa).

    Not sure if these avenues are available to you but just a thought as so many investors are using them.

    • No ONE on 14/07/2018 - 16:38
      +2

      Dumping into super will only reduce your taxable income, for HECS repayment, they’re added back and you’ll still be required to pay hecs.

  • Myone888 on 14/07/2018 - 17:49

    Thank you all for the comments especially 'toniyellow'.

    The opening balance is $63000. And as mentioned earlier I had been charged 2011’ Combined HELP file – Higher Education -$17120 and 2012’ Combined HELP file – Higher Education -$17120
    Giving a total debt todate of ~$99,917. Don't understand what the "Combined HELP file….." is?

    Eventually if nothing can be done so be it and pay. :)

    • kingmw on 14/07/2018 - 18:54

      Did you take out a FEE-HELP loan or any other loan as well? Might be the government consolidating all your debts into one.

      • T1OOO on 14/07/2018 - 22:21

        Sounds like a loan. You could give up ur Austudy benefits (which u had to pay back ) if you got a lump some loan. Smut was a crap deal unless u wanted big cash up front. Sounds like the case.

        Otherwise. 70k T 3% over 8 years is what ? $30% or $25k on top ? So 95k in any event.

    • DialIN on 14/07/2018 - 22:37

      Combined help file is the bulk submission from a Uni of deferred tuition (deferred to the gov to pay on your behalf) for that period.
      This is therefore your tuition fees for studying at that time. This is not the interest or fees for having the loan, this is an increase of your loan amount due to continuing study.
      Assuming a full time load of 8 subjects per year, this equates to a cost of $2140 per subject, which sounds about right for back then (more like $3k now for non CSP).

    • Samsungnote10 on 15/07/2018 - 00:10

      Can you give me one remote good reason why you should receive any discount or credit????

    • [Deactivated] on 15/07/2018 - 07:42

      Well it's not clear to me what is connected with course fees and what is connected with any indexing.

      If you need clarity with your fees you need to write to the ATO and request a detailed breakdown, including that associated with indexing.

      Australian Taxation Office,
      Locked Bag 1936,
      Albury, NSW, 1936.

      Dear God,

      My records are incomplete in relation to my HECS debt.

      Could you please provide a detailed history of the evolution of my HECS debt from when it began to accrue in 2009. That is when individual debts arose, how they have grown since that time (in terms of any indexing and other fees), and my current balance.

      Yours faithfully,

      Myone888.

      HECS debts are a badge of honour and like no other debt.
      In the vast majority of cases it makes little sense paying it off unless you're forced to.
      Anyone who thinks otherwise does not appreciate the economics, and likely have never been liable for a substantial debt at commercial rates.

      This message approved by AngryChicken.

    • ChatCPT on 15/07/2018 - 20:19
      +4

      that puts on on exactly $214k taxable income. Which means clearly educated high income earner. Baffling that they are trying to snake away the loan that we collectively paid for them to study.

  • Munki on 14/07/2018 - 21:19
    +10

    This thread is proof that not everyone deserves tertiary education…

  • MessyG on 15/07/2018 - 09:15

    "I am an Australian citizen and I have been incurring fees as a domestic paying student. As I am aware, domestic paying fees are no longer existing and all Australia Citizens are paying Commonwealth Supported Place (CSP) fees."

    I read this as the OP is a full fee paying graduate. OP are you sure this isn't FEE-HELP and not HECS-HELP? It would make more sense if it were FEE-HELP.

  • elgrande on 15/07/2018 - 09:52
    +1

    What course did you study OP?

  • Lunarboogie on 15/07/2018 - 11:56
    -4

    No Australian refers to another as 'domestic' in any circumstance. I suspect the OP is a recent citizen who became one during or after said university course.

    He's fishing in an attempt to recoup the fees he had to pay as a non citizen who feels hard done because he is now a citizen.

    No sympathy from me. Pay your bill and move on. Scarce tax dollars are better spent on schools and hospitals than this bozo.

    • OG Puppy Banana on 15/07/2018 - 14:47
      +1

      OP is actually on the mark.

      In university administration, the lingua franca for separating students with PR/Citizenship vs those who do not have this documentation is 'domestic' and 'international'.

  • Snail on 15/07/2018 - 12:47

    Why don't you just ask the government for explanation of fees rather than ask ozbargain?

  • dufflover on 15/07/2018 - 14:25

    $80k out of that debt must've been for the "Investment Vehicle" required to graduate from a finance degree and get a job at a certain bank …

  • frostman on 15/07/2018 - 20:38
    +1

    Another useless post,

    someone notify the Mod to disable it.

    Summary:

    Op studied 3 years at Uni, not sure why his/her HELP debt is so high,
    Fails to tell us whether the course was Government Funded (CSP) or not, eitherway he/she has no interest in paying the money back and seeking help from OZB for a loophole.

    End story.

  • Cheapskate Paul on 15/07/2018 - 22:22
    +3

    Stuff all you young people. I got my degree for free in the good old days. I probably earn more than you. I bought my house for three times the median salary. I have a defined benefit super scheme. How could we afford that now if we give you lot free education.

    We got rid of compulsory student unionism for a reason. It worked.

    Suckers!!!

  • rave75 on 15/07/2018 - 23:19
    -2

    I am pretty sure if you take HECS for undergraduate study (Bachelor), they charge you 25% as a "loan fee" and of course plus the indexation too. How is it helping students by increase their debt by 25% straight away?!

    • watwatwat on 17/07/2018 - 00:46
      +1

      I am pretty sure

      You're pretty wrong.

  • Will Mcdonald on 16/07/2018 - 00:18

    Uni HECS provides a great opportunity for aussies. You can't compare to American education though, they really have a hard time

  • trapper on 16/07/2018 - 12:05

    Just make sure it's all paid off before you are married with a kid…

  • DiscoJango on 16/07/2018 - 18:51
    +4

    i went to mcdonalds drive thru the other day, ordered some food but then at the end there is this 2nd window where you have to hand over money before you get the food

    wtf???

    how can i bypass this payment and just get my food for free, im not sure why their even wanting payment for goods provided.

    surely they can change their business model to be like petrol stations where you just fill up and leave.

    • syousef on 17/07/2018 - 18:47

      How hard did you study at the first window?

  • fozzie on 17/07/2018 - 01:06

    Troll post , op has made no comment and opened account just to do this post

    • Eeples on 21/07/2018 - 08:51

      No. As stated previously the account was opened a year ago.

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