Unethical discounts on Insurance: TRIGGER WARNING [Gender]

Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 13:43
Last edited 04/07/2018 - 14:03

Hey fellow OzB,

I want to raise this question in the sake of benefiting on discounts, but want to keep on topic so ask that you please follow the following rules:
1. No discussion on Gender topics unless it contributes to the post
2. No taking offense, I'm purely looking at scoring some bargains and maybe helping some others out in the process.
3. If you feel you may take offense please refrain from reading further.

I feel this might help drive some 'dated' traditions out of the insurance world.

I propose, requesting my car insurer (who offers premium discounts based on gender, same product, same service) to adjust my profile which currently stands at 'male' to reflect the fact that I 'identify' as female. Whether I actually do, or not, is not in the question!

My reason for the post is, asking fellow OzB, am I going to face any repercussions?… Naturally, I reached out to find out more… A unnamed insurer advised me that I need to input what is on my license. NSW licenses no longer require you to list a gender due to discrimination fears… Another insurance requested I contact them by phone as it is a complex issue, but did not say no… Similarly, I'm of the belief that due to the risk of offending, my insurer would have to proceed to list me as a gender that I identify as.

This can quickly result in reaping a benefit of $30/month in reduced premiums. And could be applied to home/contents, and other insurance types, capitalizing on society views.

OzB the floor is yours to pass on your thoughts. Maybe you've tried this before?

NOTE: THIS IS A GENUINE QUESTION AND OPPORTUNITY FOR DISCUSSION. PLEASE AVOID OFFENDING ANY OTHER OzB's.

I am hopeful there is meaningful inputs perhaps from some in the industry.

Poll Options

  • 10
    It will work (genius)
  • 24
    It will not work (madness)
  • 26
    Why haven't I tried this?
  • 4
    Bikies
Financial

closed Comments

  • airzone on 04/07/2018 - 13:48

    WTF?

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 13:52
      +8

      Why The Female? Studies show that female drivers are less likely to have accidents, and as such pay lower premiums on insurance. Hope that helps! :)

      • HighAndDry on 04/07/2018 - 14:25

        I was having a chat with some work friends the other day. You hear (online at least) about women complaining about being charged more expensive health insurance, but they never complain about paying less for other forms of insurance. Go figure.

        • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 14:41

          Interesting; I am aiming to save money, so perhaps Health Insurance it is better to maintain a male identity as pointed out below. However; it might cause confusion if ever involved in a bad car accident.

  • EightImmortals on 04/07/2018 - 13:51
    +3

    Heh, great idea!

    Give it a shot and let us know how you went. After all, what's sauce for the goose….etc

  • FoxJump on 04/07/2018 - 13:54
    +5

    I add the missus to my policies to achieve a discount.

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 14:16

      I've heard adding an additional driver can reduce your premiums; but still not as significantly as updating the primary driver… I haven't yet tried putting the car in my girlfriends name (primarily) and adding myself as an additional driver; seeing which ends up lower. Might be a question of effort x benefits

      • FoxJump on 04/07/2018 - 15:40
        +1

        You can do a spouse rego transfer with a stat dec and pay no stamp duty to make your car her car. Just don't break up :-)

  • YadaYadaYada on 04/07/2018 - 13:56
    +1

    Isn't it insurance fraud if you lie about any of your application details? It'll be fine if you have listed 'female' on all your other insurances and accounts I suppose.

    • HighAndDry on 04/07/2018 - 14:26
      +4

      OP identifies as a woman. Who's anyone to disagree? Maybe they're only comfortable disclosing this identity to certain companies or when there's a tangible benefit. No point risking persecution and alienation if they don't have to, right?

      • airzone on 04/07/2018 - 15:32

        Insurance companies absolutely will if it means they can deny a claim.

  • Davo1111 on 04/07/2018 - 13:58
    +3

    Definition of Fraud: Fraud is simply another form of “Theft” which involves some type of trick or deception, to gain a financial advantage

    You've gained reduced premiums by completing the form dishonestly. Whether or not they can prove it was dishonest is a different story. But if they decide to question it further, you could risk having your claim being denied, legal issues, or having to answer "yes" on future quotations to the fraud question.

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 14:27

      Definitely wouldn't want to risk fraud. If they put too many resources on investigating the case; then may be discriminatory. I don't know enough about this space to know if it would class as fraud; or how they could aim to disprove it. One suggestion above is to remain consistent in registering your updated identity status; but it seems that the effort may outweigh the benefit.

  • Godric on 04/07/2018 - 13:58
    +1

    Permission has been given to mods to close the thread if required, very nice of you OP loool : )

  • TheBilly on 04/07/2018 - 13:59

    Bargains a bargain ! especially when it only affects the bottom line for share holders. Hope it works out OP ! Me personally dont feel like the discount amount will be worth the effort applied.

  • Amaris on 04/07/2018 - 14:00
    +3

    Do you want to 'identify' as a 45 year old as that will likely bring down the premium too (unless you are actually 45!)?

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 14:33

      I understand some people may feel this way. If you identify your age in a more traditional sense (relation to Date of Birth), does this mean essentially you're overpaying? It could go both ways as some older folk identify as much younger. Everyone wishes they were 21.

  • FireRunner on 04/07/2018 - 14:00
    +1

    Since you are actually male i.e. have a higher statistical chance of crashing, you shouldn't be allowed to have a lower premium.

    • Oz8argain on 04/07/2018 - 14:09
      +7

      but he identifies as female now, so he/she belongs to the female category i.e. lower statistical chance of crashing

  • mskeggs on 04/07/2018 - 14:06

    Trans people experience substantially higher risk of violence. You might want to consider who you tell about your cunning plan, as some might suspect you are revealing your inner desires.

    • HighAndDry on 04/07/2018 - 14:27
      +1

      Perfect reason to only tell the insurance company and still maintain an outward identity of male for all other purposes.

  • Oz8argain on 04/07/2018 - 14:10
    +4

    What if I identify as an attack helicopter?

    • mskeggs on 04/07/2018 - 14:21
      +4

      Lower rates for theft, but increased fire premium.

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 14:24
      +1

      My question was for land vehicle insurance, but I suppose could be applied the same for aviation. I imagine premiums are extremely high and acts of war would not be covered. Probably not much benefit there. Gentle reminder on others to please stay on topic.

      • Oz8argain on 04/07/2018 - 15:17

        That's where you're wrong on this. I'm still driving my car, not as 'Adult Male' but as 'Attach Helicopter'. You need to learn more about our multi-gender society to stay relevant..

        • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 15:29

          Yes. In order of importance:

          Inclusivity > relevance > fact

    • cypher67 on 04/07/2018 - 14:28

      Try identifying as a Volvo, doesn't get much safer.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:33
      +2

      Use Huey insurance.

  • GG57 on 04/07/2018 - 14:19

    I think this is a great idea; what could go wrong, yeah?

  • HighAndDry on 04/07/2018 - 14:21
    +2

    but want to keep on topic so ask that you please follow the following rules:

    Refused. Don't tell me what to do. Etc.

  • mskeggs on 04/07/2018 - 14:22
    +2

    I do not want to bring forward the day when YOUI insists on a genital inspection.

    • GG57 on 04/07/2018 - 14:41

      I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think that inspection alone would resolve the claim?
      Perhaps they would devise an alternate 'test', maybe invite the customer to one of those certain dodgy clubs and see what arises?

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:36
    +1

    Maybe they will do a map holding test.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:37
    +2

    The decadence of western society allows such silly questions to be posed.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:41

      You call it decadence. I call it degeneration.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:45

        Potato potahtoe

  • Meho2026 on 04/07/2018 - 14:40
    +2

    There could be an argument in claiming sexual discrimination as a customer
    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/employers/good-practice-good-…

    I think insurance companies are only given a discrimination exemption for age only
    https://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/4-insurance/anti-discri…

    It seems fair that we all should be able to identify as male, female or non specific and the law in NSW allows for that http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/amend-certificate/change-of-…

    All that seems to be based on this case which has a good discussion around the subject https://www.timebase.com.au/news/2014/AT175-article.html

    The sticking point is, to comply with that legislation, we have to undergo a 'sex affirmation procedure' to identify as non specific or change our sex identity.

    Even that law itself seems discriminatory because it means people who don't identify their sex by the genitalia they were born with and have not had surgery are excluded.

    The obvious answer would be to campaign for everyone to be able to identify or non identify with any gender, with no conditions.

    There was a case years ago in Victoria where a female customer of an international hair salon chain accused them of sexual discrimination cos they charged more for a womans cut than a mans. The end result was the company increased the cost of a mans cut to the same as a womans. (no reference but I was told this by an employee of Tony & Guy)

    Now if the insurance companies averaged everything out to avoid accusations of discrimination, the existing premiums, in theory, would rise for women and decrease for men but I think it would be naive to believe they would do this.

    In all likelyhood they would charge everyone the equivalent of the existing male identifying premium. Indirectly classifying everyone as male. The end result being the insurance companies increase their revenue and our new non gender identifying population collectively pays more.

    • GG57 on 04/07/2018 - 14:43

      Excellent analysis.

    • Oipjo on 04/07/2018 - 15:01
      -1

      Thanks for the valuable input! You've given this some thought, and backed with research.

      It seems that based off your first article; insurance companies risk at being in breach of "providing customers with goods, services and facilities on less favourable terms and conditions" in relation to gender right off the bat… Your second link reiterates this by mentioning they only have a discriminatory exclusion for age. Not looking good for Insurance.

      In your last article; NSW allows people to register as non-specific, but this is not an option for applying for insurance.

      That still makes it unclear on how a non-specific person would identify on insurance policies… As a gender can be fluid, perhaps they can't discriminate when you say (for example) male on health, and female on car.

      Ladies and gents. The Loophole.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 14:56
    +1

    I thought about this a while ago, nice to see someone actually putting in the effort to research the topic.

  • airal3rt on 04/07/2018 - 15:12
    +3

    They might lower your premium for saying you believe you're a woman but they'll jack it up much higher due to the obvious mental illness you suffer from.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/07/2018 - 15:21
    +2

    I identify as an asexual pangender.

    As far as anyone can proove, asexual pangendered people have never been in a motor vehicle accident.

    Profit.

  • ThithLord on 04/07/2018 - 15:26

    A unnamed insurer advised me that I need to input what is on my license. NSW licenses no longer require you to list a gender due to *discrimination fears**

    Your gender no longer appears on your license - your license still defines you as male or female.

    I emphasised the gender discrimination fears - that is just simply not true. They removed it because it is no longer needed on licenses.

  • GangGang on 04/07/2018 - 15:36

    Just wondering how you would go if you had to make a claim over the phone or at the shop?

    It would state on the profile that you're female but a male speaking. Ways to get around it but it is a risk.

  • Moderatorneil on 04/07/2018 - 15:45

    OK, shit show. Comments closed.

    OP, it's fraud.

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