eBay.com.au GST listings are illegal?

bamzero on 02/07/2018 - 11:38
Last edited 02/07/2018 - 11:47

So just having a look at how eBay AU is handling the GST.

If I search an item, items that are coming from overseas are being shown with pre-GST prices in the search results and item listing, and it's not until it's in the cart that I can see GST is added.

For one thing, makes it hard to compare results when some items (from AU sellers) will be the price shown and others will end up being 10% more.

Legally speaking though, I guess that might be how they do it in the US, but in AU all retail prices must be displayed GST inclusive right?

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Comments

  • SirFlibbled on 02/07/2018 - 12:04
    +1

    Ebay's issue is there's no guarantee that you will be having the items shipped to your Australian address. You could be having the item shipped to a US address.

    I guess they could do it like Amazon UK and simply deduct the GST portion in those instances.

    • bamzero on 02/07/2018 - 12:35
      +2

      Yeah, fair point I guess, though in my case I'm logged in and have my address set. It is ebay AU after all, so it would be assumed the main customer base is Australia.

      The Postage and Handling tab, though giving me rates to Australia, just states
      Estimated Taxes: Goods and Services Tax (GST) may apply.

      Like you suggest it should probably be showing a tax inclusive price and deducting if it's being shipped outside AU.

      • scrimshaw on 02/07/2018 - 12:47
        +1

        Time to polish up your mental arithmetic then and (in your mind) add 10% to the price of the product when you are comparing.

        In any case, it's probably a better idea to add the item to cart first to see what the final price would be, because there are a lot of listings that have multiple items that use the same listing that require you to click a drop down box to select an item "type". Many sellers use multi-item listings that do not show their true price until you view the item page.

    • BargainDude8 on 02/07/2018 - 17:26
      +2

      The ACCC says:

      "When you present prices to your customers, you must state the total price of the good or service as a single figure, which is the minimum total cost that is able to be calculated. This should include any tax, duty, fee, levy or other additional charges (e.g. GST or airport tax). This rule generally does not apply in business-to-business transactions. This means you do not need to include GST if a price statement is made exclusively to businesses."

      https://www.accc.gov.au/business/pricing-surcharging/display…

      There is an exclusion give if "price statement is made exclusively to businesses." That clearly isn't the case on eBay, and I don't see that eBay is offering GST-free sales for those with an ABN.

      There is no exclusion given on that ACCC page for the /possibility/ that the item may for some unknown reason be sending the item to a non-Australian address.

      Since the price is displayed on ebay.com.au I can't see how they can argue that that is likely, and certainly isn't the most common event.

      • SirFlibbled on 02/07/2018 - 17:54
        +1

        You'd imagine Ebay have sought legal advice before implementing it in the way they have. What that is and how it works I have NFI. I'm not learned on tax law (it's something I've avoided where possible).

  • iseenya on 02/07/2018 - 13:20

    Below the Postage heading on the auction page, there's an Import Charges heading, with "amount confirmed at checkout". The explanation for this says, "This amount includes applicable customs duties, taxes, brokerage and other fees. This amount is subject to change until you make payment." Does this extra cost not cover the GST component?

    • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 16:29
      +1

      Clearly not acceptable.

  • eyeballz2770 on 02/07/2018 - 14:38

    I'd like to know how to confirm that the GST I pay on ebay purchases is sent back to Australia.

    • bamzero on 02/07/2018 - 15:01

      I'm think it's ebay Australia collecting GST for overseas sellers, so like any Australian business, you just have to hope they are doing the righty.

      • umbleumble on 02/07/2018 - 22:33
        +2

        It's definitely ebay Australia collecting this. I just bought something from DWI Digital and it was two separate payments on my Paypal account. One for the advertised price in the name of DWI and one for the "GST" amount in the name of ebay.

        I have NFI what eBay is doing here. Nothing matches the actual regulations, I can only thing they have a handshake deal with the government

        • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 16:37
          +2

          Look up EDP's. This is what the idiots in the Gov backrooms have decided to do.
          Basically if you sell through an EDP you don't have to get an ABN and do your own BAS etc. Crazy thing is they are doing it randomly, and the ATO has no way of knowing literally anything about the sellers, or if ebay should be collecting, or not.

          I want to know that they are getting the GST I am charged. No way of confirming that either. How do I get the GST back for goods not received. No way of tracking that either.

          This crap is what happens when a society gets complacent and to busy with it's own pedantic crap, to notice the imposition of a theocracy. The same theist based truths are then forced onto our day to day lives.

          They all have their own version of their foreign allegiance, and as their theistic
          infrastructure falls apart, there has been a mad scramble to embed their various groups of people pretending to know things they can't know, deeper and deeper into social services, to make them relevant and financially viable. I copped this abus for the first 28 years of my life and the arseholes are again forcing their lies upon us all.

          This is what causes revolution and civil wars. It is all about conflicts of interest.

  • ausdday on 02/07/2018 - 16:29

    I'd like to know how to confirm that the GST I pay on zapals purchases is sent back to Australia.

    • sleepy120 on 02/07/2018 - 23:40

      i would like to know also. Say zapals pays $1000 to the ato when they should have paid $10,000. How are they going to know zapals didn't pocket the rest?

      If it were me, i would imagine some sort of parcel from sender/address postal tracking system which would estimate price per parcel received and getting a ball park figure by inspecting some packages and finding the true vale on the vendors website.

      • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:25

        I asked these questions. They don't know and don't care. They have to deal with what they have.

    • Banj0 on 02/07/2018 - 23:41
      +4

      That's why this system is such a mess. There's nothing compelling (many) OS sellers to remit GST back to Oz, even if they've charged for it. eBay is a little different, in that they're collecting the GST and they're have an Australian presence (ie…ATO can hold it over them somewhat). This is a very strange situation though, since, in the past, the ATO has determined that it is the seller's responsibility to collect GST, and eBay (and the like) are simply acting as a marketplace. This new legislation is aimed at the marketplace company though (eBay, Amazon, Alibaba) and big sellers with an Australian connection/presence. There is simply nothing the govt can do about foreign sellers who may exceed the $75k turnover threshold but do not wish to register for this scheme, and do not otherwise have business in Australia…they can simply raise the middle finger.

      The ATO had a list of 3,000 foreign sellers/marketplaces that they assessed would probably meet the $75k threshold. I wonder how many have registered at this point.

      So….for GST you now have two collection systems - one domestic system that applies to sellers within Australia, and a system for international sellers to Australia.

      I think you can expect that the rules about listing GST don't necessarily apply to foreign sellers and/or marketplaces…might have been a bridge too far to ask them to change their systems to that extent.

      On top of this you now have two methods for capturing the GST on foreign imports. The over $1000 thing still stands, so expect any purchase you bring in over $1000 to still get tied up with customs. You also have the seller/marketplace collection thing, where eBay, or whoever, will collect GST on any value sale and remit it back to the Australian Govt (they hope). Conceivably, the govt has a documentation system in place where the seller should be declaring the paid GST on the customer dec and everybody's happy - but really? Think all sellers are gonna get this right? I foresee that there could be situations where you will pay GST to the marketplace/seller, and then customs will demand it wen the item enters the country - hope you have a record!

      Really very very messy. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in some of the govt depts involved in this when the political masters decided on the policy.

      • ausdday on 03/07/2018 - 08:51
        +1

        As far as I know, the law is to make Gerry Harvey happy. If you are not Gerry Harvey, you are screwed.

        1. It's the consumer's money that was used to pay for the GST. Does the govt care if they doesn't receive it, probably not. Any remittance from OS sellers are bonuses to the govt. They didn't have it before.
        2. Gerry Harvey will be happy, cause now he thinks he is playing in the "fair" ground.
        3. The govt will hope that people will buy from locals. But given the fact that a sensor cost $1 on ebay is selling at $5 in Jaycar, I would rather pay GST on $1 instead of $5.
        4. Govt always came out with odd rules to screw the consumers. This is what happen when we vote for a businessman to be a PM. E.g. Companies $400m profit from unclaimed bottle deposit scheme.
        • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:19

          Yep and getting rid of what little competition there was will enabled price creep.

      • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:19

        It is what theism does to a person's mind. Dissonance is ignored, and it all ends up being a mess, that is patched by a further mess.

  • eyeballz2770 on 03/07/2018 - 10:25
    +1

    This is interesting:
    https://www.penguinaccounts.com.au/gst-low-value-imports-201…

    Who is not required to pay GST?

    This new GST legislation only applies to the sales of low value imported goods to consumers in Australia.

    If your customer is a registered business, (that is, not a consumer) who purchased the goods for use in their business in Australia you do not charge them GST and they are not required to pay it.

    If your business is a recipient of low-value goods, you should notify your suppliers of your GST registration to ensure you are not being charged twice for GST.

    It'll be interesting to see how ebay and the others merchants/vendors deal with the above.

  • eyeballz2770 on 03/07/2018 - 10:40
    +1

    https://www.ato.gov.au/non-profit/non-profit-news-service/in…

    If you're an Australian GST-registered business, you should not be charged GST when purchasing these goods for your business use, if you provide your supplier with both:

    • your Australian business number (ABN)
    • a statement that you are registered for GST.

    If you're charged GST incorrectly, you should speak to your supplier about a refund.

    Note that not all receipts that have GST applied will be tax invoices. To be considered a tax invoice, they will need to contain an ABN. Overseas suppliers may be registered in the simplified GST system and have an ATO reference number (ARN) instead of an ABN.

    • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:21
      +1

      They have set it up so that the ABN's are not required and it all comes under the ABN of ebay. It really is doing my head in.

  • eyeballz2770 on 03/07/2018 - 11:50
    +3

    OMG!!!!

    Just got off the phone with the ATO and my question was "How do we know that Gearbest is sending all the GST they collect back to the ATO? For example, if they collect $75K in July, 2018 and only report $72K to the ATO, how do you know there's $3K unpaid?"

    ATO response: We have to trust that they report the correct amount just like any Australian-based business. Of course, audits will be performed.

    TRUST!!! Yup, this is another boost for small Aussie businesses.

    • ausdday on 03/07/2018 - 12:34
      +1

      Of course, audits will be performed.

      ATO do NOT have any rights to audit companies registered in China. Period. All they can do is to ask China Govt's help, since China's govt is a very honest administration.

      • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:23
        +2

        I have asked all of these questions. Just like all of the horrors our theocracy promotes and turns a blind eye to. "Jesus will sort it out in the next life".

    • Ughhh on 28/07/2018 - 00:20

      They obviously have no idea who /what gearbest is.

    • Xiaomi on 05/08/2018 - 15:30

      What do you expect them to do, have 1 person monitor every single business? The police trust you will drive to the speed limit, Woolworths trust that when you place an item in your basket you will swipe it at self-serve. Honestly what were you expecting?

  • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 16:23
    +1

    Yep I ran into this today and posted in the other thread.

    Had a tripod head in cart. No mention of GST.
    Confirm to pay page all of a sudden shows a GST amount.
    Bought $300 worth of lights from a Chinese seller with stock warehoused in Sydney, and no GST charged at all.

    Spoke to ATO and they say it is up to ebay to collect or not and because they are an EDP, the $75k export to Australia doesn't matter. There is no guideline and they said they cannot check anything. So leave it to whatever ebay feels like doing. They have no way of verifying the GST I am asked to pay actually gets to the Federal treasury.

    But ebay are not an EDP. They have nothing to do with the transaction and simply supply a marketplace, and not products.

    • bamzero on 03/07/2018 - 17:31
      +2

      Gonna be interesting when ordering from those sellers that claim to be in Australia but really dropship it from China.
      Assuming eBay doesn't flag that one to charge GST and then you get a GST bill from customs before they'll release your goods (hopefully not with extra customs processing fees).

      I can understand that some things from Australian sellers already include GST (and I'd say eBay is just making the assumption that goods sold from Australia sellers are either inclusive already or not registered), but my main issue here is that if eBay are going to add GST, it should be included in all listed prices like every other Australian business has to do.

      • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:50
        +1

        They didn't charge GST on the $300 I spent with one today.

      • Chickenleg on 04/07/2018 - 08:27
        +1

        Was just thinking the same thing about the listings that state the item is in Darwin Nt to make it appear in the Au listings. Just did a couple of random searches and these items obviously don’t incur the additional GST charge. Just to make it more confusing!

  • Major Mess on 03/07/2018 - 17:27
    +1

    I think it is time to start a change.org aimed at Bill making a commitment to undo these and the opiodphobia related codeine laws. He is not exactly what you would call competent, but he surely can't do any worse.

  • jeanene on 06/07/2018 - 09:48

    Well something is a bit off about the way they are doing it. I made some purchases from oversease and within australia using the 10% discount code-

    1) Clearly OS purchase, 2 paypal transactions, 1st for the purchase amount minus discount (ie 10% cheaper) second for the GST component
    2) Purchase from a company showing as Pty Ltd and apearing to be Australian, 1 paypal transaction for the FULL amount so either no discount or discount taken off and 10% added back on.

    Effectively the 10% discount was canceled out in BOTH cases which I suspect is what ebay intended to smooth over the transition to GST

    Edit : -
    Ok just checked my credit card statement, in transaction 2 Paypal shows the amount BEFORE the 10% discount but on the credit card the amount is 10% lower so discount hasn't been canceled out after all. Makes it confusing to reconcile your paypal and credit card statements.

  • sev snape on 07/07/2018 - 16:08
    +1

    Yeah it's annoying with ebay now - totally forget that I have to pay an extra 10% once it's in the cart. With paypal they seem to be handling it like separate transactions, say the $1 for the item is for the seller, then there's a separate transactions for the $0.10 GST - it says on my paypal receipt that the 10c is going to "Payment sent to: [email protected]", so they've got a separate 'account' for these payments. There's NO way that money is all going to make it to the government though.

  • daydream on 27/07/2018 - 14:31
    +3

    Bigger offshore sellers just need their website to reflect similar prices and accept Paypal. We'll just buy it direct from their website instead.

    The Aust govt can only hope offshore entities give them money but there is nothing forcing them too. People will still buy from offshore as the price saving is still more than 10%. Gerry has run out of excuses options now and just made consumers pay 10% more with no guarantee it will benefit Australia(ns).

  • PowerPants on 01/08/2018 - 09:18

    This eBay AU behaviour with GST is really staring to **** me off now! So annoying to get to the checkout and realise once again that there’s another 10% added to the price. Makes comparison shopping with other Aus. Sites difficult when they include GST up front.

  • PowerPants on 01/08/2018 - 10:36

    Was there a definitive conclusion to this — legal or illegal?

    If they are not obliged to display GST inclusive prices, then maybe they are not obliged to collect GST for the ATO at all? That would be a nice outcome.

  • bluebagger1 on 02/08/2018 - 21:07

    Has anyone purchased and received an item overseas in the last month that did not include gst? Was there any attempt to collect gst by Home Affairs which is responsible for clearing goods
    in Australia. Have tried to find out what should happen at their site. Reads that gst if applicable will collected by vendor and not at the border.Can anyone clarify? Thanks

    • bamzero on 02/08/2018 - 22:17
      +1

      As far as I'm aware, the government has basically put that on the overseas supplier, and if it doesn't happen, I really don't think there any means or intention to chase it up. Obviously not something you would read on their site but it seems most likely.

      It might be a bit soon to tell though, anything arriving in last month still might be from an order pre-GST so they may be leaving them be for now anyway.

      • bluebagger1 on 03/08/2018 - 21:27

        Appreciate the response. My feeling is that they won’t be chasing the buyer. Will post what happens when the item arrives.

  • TRS-80 on 04/08/2018 - 23:29

    What about how eBay is charging GST on postage? Surely that is wrong, since it's a service paid for outside of Australia?

  • thedriver on 01/09/2018 - 09:34

    I experienced this last night on eBay. And in my search for answer came across this info on the ATO website about GST pricing:

    GST-inclusive pricing

    The GST rate in Australia is currently 10% this means the GST is 1/11th of the amount you charge for sales of low value goods imported by consumers will be the GST amount that you must pay. However, if you are a re-deliverer, special rules apply.

    As soon are you are aware Australian GST is likely to apply to the sale of goods, Australian consumer law requires that you display a GST-inclusive price.

    If you are unsure whether Australian GST will apply, you can display a message about the potential for additional taxes to apply. As soon as it is clear that GST applies, you must show the GST-inclusive price.

    I guess that means eBay et al DON'T have to display GST UNTIL they know you're shipping to Australia. That would seem more detrimental to local businesses trying to compete, as a lot of consumers won't realise and will possibly think it's cheaper to buy from overseas anyway up to the point where they've committed to buy an item.

    In my experience last night though, I was shopping on eBay.com.au and had my delivery address set to my home address. There was NO information about "the potential for additional taxes to apply". It wasn't until I had committed and confirmed to pay for the item that I was then charged an additional 10% that I didn't expect. The ATO won't care, they exist to collect taxes. But I'll be taking this battle to the ACCC.

    If anyone else wan't to submit their feedback let me know. If we get enough momentum, we could impact change. I think the ACCC would action this.

    • whooah1979 on 01/09/2018 - 11:40

      There was NO information about "the potential for additional taxes to apply"

      Did you check the listings postage tab?

    • bamzero on 01/09/2018 - 14:15
      +1

      The way I see it, the fact that I have my default postcode set and it's calculating postage for items to that address should mean that they are aware GST will apply to overseas items and it should be displayed.

      eBays handling of the whole thing it shite anyway.. If you have a GST registered ABN, they are not supposed to charge the GST for overseas items in the first place, yet there is no way to set this up. They don't provide a proper tax invoice (as far as I'm aware) so you can't claim the GST back as you normally would. So you're left with trying to get a refund from eBay on the GST portion, which from what I've heard so far is a struggle.

  • whooah1979 on 01/09/2018 - 09:38
    -1

    AU all retail prices must be displayed GST inclusive right?

    No. This only applies if the item is sold to be consumed in Australia.

    • thedriver on 02/09/2018 - 13:28

      The ATO states:

      As soon are you are aware Australian GST is likely to apply to the sale of goods, Australian consumer law requires that you display a GST-inclusive price.

      I would suggest that anyone browsing on any international ebay site (but especially ebay.com.au), that has their shipping address set to Australia, should be displayed prices inclusive of GST, as it fits the category of "likely to apply". A note can easily be put beside the price that says "(inc GST)".

      • whooah1979 on 02/09/2018 - 15:16

        Or they may check the postage tap and see.

        Estimated Taxes: Goods and Services Tax (GST) may apply.

  • A fish on 12/12/2018 - 08:15

    $1 final value fee weekends costs $1.1

  • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2019 - 13:13

    I note Ebay updated their tax policy today.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/help/buying/paying-items/paying-tax-…

    It royally sh1ts me off when they collect GST from an overseas vendor selling a few tiny items a year. They clearly do not exceed $75K per year and the link on Ebay's own tax policy makes it clear they should not be collecting GST in situations like this. Yet the collect it on every damn sale.

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